War

[moose eater]

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-ngo-shut-down-reporting-sexual-assault-ex-us

 

[moose eater]

 

[moose eater]

I could go on... and on.. but I won't.

75 years of treating Palestinians as sub-human can bring about some very unpleasant outcomes. Just as can punching the wrong guy in the bar.

Maybe best to shut the Apartheid regime of Bibi Netanyahu down hard, prosecute he and his lackeys in the ICC, and allow people to go back to owning the land they had, rather than rewarding murderous thieves and racists who justify their actions with what is tantamount to the Old Testament edicts.

 

[Chi13]

Hamas sexually brutalized the women and men they raped, with reports that murdered women’s genitalia and breasts were severely mutilated. Hamas also reportedly shot and killed women either while or after they raped them on Oct. 7.

These violent acts suggest an intent to utterly destroy their victims, while also terrorizing the Israeli public and humiliating Israeli men, Israel’s military and the state of Israel.

We also think that Hamas’ use of sexual violence was intended to outrage and provoke Israel to engage in a permanent state of war with Hamas and attack civilian spaces in Gaza. Hamas hopes in doing so to consolidate power and keep the Palestinian crisis alive.

Hamas’ use of sexual violence is an all-too-common part of modern war − but not in all conflicts

Sexual violence can be used as a weapon of war. Hamas’ use of sexual violence was likely meant to show its power over Israeli women and girls and to humiliate Israeli men and Israel’s military.

theconversation.com

 

[Chi13]

One of the reasons I have not wanted to be involved in this thread is because I don't want to be wedged into supporting one side over another. There's deplorable acts from both sides, but to paint Israel as the only ones at fault to me is just wrong.

 

[moose eater]

One of the reasons I have not wanted to be involved in this thread is because I don't want to be wedged into supporting one side over another. There's deplorable acts from both sides, but to paint Israel as the only ones at fault to me is just wrong.

How many times did Palestine blockade Israel from receiving food and water or restrict Israelis' movements in Israel, or arbitrarily shoot down Israelis without consequences?.

There is a whole lot of imbalances in the 75 years leading up to where we are now. Uncomfortable for some or not.

An honest examination of living conditions in Gaza under Israel's thumb clarifies some of the 'both sides' nonsense.

If you brutalize people and take their homes and land for 75 years, they might strike back in ways that are ugly.

I would. And I suspect most would, despite the flowery disingenuous claims some have made in this thread..

 

[Chi13]

How many times did Palestine blockade Israel from receiving food and water or restrict Israelis' movements in Israel, or arbitrarily shoot down Istraelis.

There is a whole lot of imbalances in the 75 years leading up to where we are now. Uncomfortable for some or not.

An honest examination of living conditions in Gaza under Israel's thumb clarifies some of the 'both sides' nonsense.

If you brutalize people and take their homes and land for 75 years, they might strike back in ways that are ugly.

I would. And I suspect most would, despite the flowery disingenuous claims some have made in this thread..

I agree with pretty much all of that. Particularly with Netanyahu in power the treatment of Palestinians has been even worse. I hope him and his cronies are charged with war crimes and meet the consequences.

However, nothing justified the atrocities committed on 7 October. They were truly barbaric, as is the Israeli's bombing and shooting civilians. I support the Palestinians being able to live in peace, but I don't see that being possible with Hamas in power, or Israel under Netanyahu.

 

[Microbeman]

Hamas sexually brutalized the women and men they raped, with reports that murdered women’s genitalia and breasts were severely mutilated. Hamas also reportedly shot and killed women either while or after they raped them on Oct. 7.

These violent acts suggest an intent to utterly destroy their victims, while also terrorizing the Israeli public and humiliating Israeli men, Israel’s military and the state of Israel.

We also think that Hamas’ use of sexual violence was intended to outrage and provoke Israel to engage in a permanent state of war with Hamas and attack civilian spaces in Gaza. Hamas hopes in doing so to consolidate power and keep the Palestinian crisis alive.

Hamas’ use of sexual violence is an all-too-common part of modern war − but not in all conflicts

Sexual violence can be used as a weapon of war. Hamas’ use of sexual violence was likely meant to show its power over Israeli women and girls and to humiliate Israeli men and Israel’s military.

theconversation.com

This Moose. I'm not on the side of Israel but this is the truth.

 

[Microbeman]

How many times did Palestine blockade Israel from receiving food and water or restrict Israelis' movements in Israel, or arbitrarily shoot down Israelis without consequences?.

There is a whole lot of imbalances in the 75 years leading up to where we are now. Uncomfortable for some or not.

An honest examination of living conditions in Gaza under Israel's thumb clarifies some of the 'both sides' nonsense.

If you brutalize people and take their homes and land for 75 years, they might strike back in ways that are ugly.

I would. And I suspect most would, despite the flowery disingenuous claims some have made in this thread..

Whataboutism?

 

[Microbeman]

If you brutalize people and take their homes and land for 75 years, they might strike back in ways that are ugly.

So in your hypothetical of someone attacking/killing your family, your reprisal would include raping his kids? Wake up man.

 

[moose eater]

I agree with pretty much all of that. Particularly with Netanyahu in power the treatment of Palestinians has been even worse. I hope him and his cronies are charged with war crimes and meet the consequences.

However, nothing justified the atrocities committed on 7 October. They were truly barbaric, as is the Israeli's bombing and shooting civilians. I support the Palestinians being able to live in peace, but I don't see that being possible with Hamas in power.

The abuses predate Netanyahu, but yes, his offenses are now even more harsh than before. And 'before' was nothing to show admiration of or desire for.

Netanyahu, like the US, exempts himself from being subjected to the jurisdiction of the UN/ICC, and the US uses its unilateral veto authority at the UN to block most if not all (even mere) resolutions against Israel, making us complicit with his war crimes, as are any and all who support or benefit from his racist Apartheid policies.

As Cannavore has pointed out, per international law, those Israelis who act as 'settlers' in taking Palestinian homes and land, evicting the rightful owners, especially in lands that are not lawfully Israel's turf, are not civilians under the law. They are combatants.

Israel's use of heavy artillery, bombs, rockets, and experimental ammunition on what have often been mostly civilian targets, goes way beyond the pale. Yet Israel holds sway over a considerable amount of the press we read, the politicians in this Country who speak on their behalf, courtesy of AIPAC, who bribes our representatives with our money that we gave them.

I've watched as IDF stated that all of the detained Palestinians were Hamas when, in fact, less than 10% were.

I've watched as Israel claimed to have found 40 beheaded babies, later revealed to have been staged propaganda and lies.

I watched as Israel claimed the water ducts under the hospital were actually Hamas tunnels and they staged pics of weapons where the grouping of weapons changed as the shutter of the lens clicked.

I watched as IDF and administration under Netty claimed no Palestinians were raped by IDF.

I watched as Netanyahu claimed his end goal was to evict all Palestinians from the West Bank and have it for Israel alone (with the US covering for their crimes.

I watched a lot more lies than that dribble from the Israeli war criminals' lips, and a forum member here I called 'Lip' as an abbreviation of his handle here, referred to Palestinians as animals' and 'human animals' justifying their abuses for 75 years.

And the motherfuckers plead the victim card, control the media to an extent through economic and other pressures, to the extent if the Israeli pro-Netanyahu media told me it was raining, I'd go look for myself without grabbing an umbrella, because their media and propaganda machinery is THAT perpetually dishonest.

 

[moose eater]

Whataboutism?

Nope, historical facts of an imbalance in power, while the real abusers plead victim status. Not whataboutism at all.

 

[moose eater]

So in your hypothetical of someone attacking/killing your family, your reprisal would include raping his kids? Wake up man.

Never said that. I implied that once you open up Pandora's box with 3/4 of a century of brutalizing people, don't be too awful surprised when the blowback is uncontrollable.

Watching a chronic bully and crybaby plead that the people he was abusing didn't fight fair doesn't initially bring too may tears from me.

 

[Microbeman]

The abuses predate Netanyahu, but yes, his off3enses are now even more harsh than before. And 'before' was nothing to show admiration of or desire for.

Netanyahu, like the US, exempts himself from being subjected to the jurisdiction of the US, and the US uses its unilateral veto authority at the UN to block most if not all (even mere) resolutions against Israel, making us complicit with his war crimes, as are any and all who support or benefit from his racist Apartheid policies.

As Cannavore has pointed out, per international law, those Israelis who act as 'settlers' in taking Palestinian homes and land, evicting the rightful owners, especially in lands that are not lawfully Israel's turf, are not civilians under the law. They are combatants.

Israel's use of heavy artillery, bombs, rockets, and experimental ammunition on what have often been mostly civilian targets, goes way beyond the pale. Yet Israel holds sway over a considerable amount of the press we read, the politicians in this Country who speak on their behalf, courtesy of AIPAC, who bribes our representatives with our money that we gave them.

I've watched as IDF stated that all of the detained Palestinians were Hamas when, in fact, less than 10% were.

I've watched as Israel claimed to have found 40 beheaded babies, later reveale4d to have been staged propaganda and lies.

I watched as Israel claimed the water ducts under the hospital were actually Hamas tunnels and they staged pics of weapons where the grouping of weapons changed as the shutter of the lens clicked.

I watched as IDF and administration under Natty claimed no Palestinian s were raped by IDF.

I watched as Netanyahu claimed his end goal was to evict all Palestinians from the West Bank and have it for Israel alone (with the US covering for their crimes.

I watched a lot more lies than that dribble from the Israeli war criminals' lips, and a forum member here I called 'Lip' as an abbreviation of his handle here, referred to Palestinians as animals' and 'human animals' justifying their abuses for 75 years.

And the motherfuckers plead the victim card, control the media to an extent through economic and other pressures, to the extent if the Israeli pro-Netanyahu media told me it was raining, I'd go look for myself without grabbing an umbrella, because their media and propaganda machinery is THAT perpetually dishonest.

I give you a 3/4 like for that post. Everyone keeps saying return to 1967. I say return to 1947.

 

[Microbeman]

Nope, historical facts of an imbalance in power, while the real abusers plead victim status. Not whataboutism at all.

Historical facts can easily be used as whataboutism friend.

 

[Microbeman]

Never said that. I implied that once you open up Pandora's box with 3/4 of a century of brutalizing people, don't be too awful surprised when the blowback is uncontrollable.

Watching a chronic bully and crybaby plead that the people he was abusing didn't fight fair doesn't initially bring too may tears from me.

Look at what you replied to.

 

[moose eater]

Historical facts can easily be used as whataboutism friend.

Stating that the little guy in the bar brawl poked the guy in the ribs, and the big guy continued to pummel him and sever his head, is not whataboutism. It's a factual description the difference in provocation and damages.

 

[moose eater]

Look at what you replied to.

I know what I replied to.

Is what goes on in this artwork? Nope.

Is it somewhat predictable considering the 75 years of unfettered abuses? Absolutely.

I had a neighbor in grad school who was a decorated army vet who helped to retake the Philippines. I'd naively thought for a long time that our war crimes originated in SE Asia.

Ted told me what happened to villagers in the Philippines who were merely accused of collaboration by the locals when the US retook the Islands. Nothing beyond hearsay required..

You know, the 'good and just war'. I'll skip the graphics of what occurred and tightened my view.

I suggest that people not brutalize others for decades or centuries, as controlling the blowback is rarely achieved once that anger is unleashed.

 

[Microbeman]

Stating that the little guy in the bar brawl poked the guy in the ribs, and the big guy continued to pummel him and sever his head, is not whataboutism. It's a factual description the difference in provocation and damages.

You are correct. I was using Chi's post about the rapes committed by Hamas at the music festival as what you had responded to. I did think this was possibly propaganda until hearing testimony from survivors,

 

[Microbeman]

Stating that the little guy in the bar brawl poked the guy in the ribs, and the big guy continued to pummel him and sever his head, is not whataboutism. It's a factual description the difference in provocation and damages.

e.g. The 2020 election was corruptly influenced; so was Kennedy's