The Trump Bomber

[gaiusmarius]

You do realize that the profits from the insurance, and related industries are owned by the stockholders. How many 401k's, and pensions and stockholders are invested in these industries. So, those companies have to be dissolved, the value of the investments will vanish overnight. This means millions of people will lose a good chunk of their retirement and pensions. Externalities are not considered, so the money spent, and the wealth lost are not the same.

thats the whole problem, why should medical care be something that lazy fucks can invest in and live off the profits off the misery of their fellow man? seems a bit sick no? pay them out and shut it all down, health care is too important. you guys could be pioneers and make a totally new system built purely for the benefit of it's users, nothing else, the best possible care at the best possible price. sooner or later nearly everyone needs health care.

 

[rives]

if you have a 1 payer system, then every penny people are spending in the whole US from A to Z could be going towards the new system. health care in the US is already one of the highest in the world. imagine what could be done with that money if it was streamlined into 1 central system. you shouldn't need great tax increases, you rechannel all the money being spent already.

think about it, every insurance company has to employ the same people, with a transparent system the public would demand the pharma industry give their meds are reasonable prices, instead of hundreds of ceo's of every insurance company you have 1, there are many potential ways to use the money being spent right now to cover everyone.

you have to start from birth, and the rate has to go up as the medical needs go up in the general population. if you only insure sick and old people, of course it won't work, you need to be far thinking, you pay while you a bit every month, so when you need it the care will be there, or when your family needs it. healthcare is much more effective if there is no financial worries for those recovering from operations. you need a system that doesn't mean people have to sell their house or let their relative die

The potential benefits are staggering. The chances of those benefits being realized are non-existent.

We have innumerable examples of what to expect - if anyone actually thinks that healthcare would be improved, just look at the 88-year history of the VA.

If you think that a cost savings would be realized, then look at the glorious track record on what was spent for everyday items by the government - "Other items offered in the catalogue include a $285 screwdriver, a $7,622 coffee maker, a $387 flat washer, a $469 wrench, a $214 flashlight, a $437 tape measure, a $2,228 monkey wrench, a $748 pair of duckbill pliers, a $74,165 aluminum ladder, a $659 ashtray and a $240- million airplane."

https://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-30/news/vw-18804_1_nut

 

[St. Phatty]

You do realize that the profits from the insurance, and related industries are owned by the stockholders. How many 401k's, and pensions and stockholders are invested in these industries. So, those companies have to be dissolved, the value of the investments will vanish overnight.

They can bill me.

Death care (what naive people call, American health care) is killing America. Partially because it has Negative Productivity.

People go to American "doctors" and are made sicker.

 

[White Beard]

That 3.2 trillion / 4.9 trillion annual?

That’s *total US spending* on healthcare...*NOT* US government spending on healthcare, which is included in total US spending.

Carry on.

 

[Klompen]

No, I'm not. The article that I linked earlier stated explicitly that doubling of the current tax rates would fail to cover the cost of medicare-for-all. Your "total cost to employers" is currently a tax deductible business expense, you can't simply transfer the gross cost and declare it a savings. Doubling the cost of the annual federal budget is going to require the doubling of revenue, and once the government gets even further involved in dictating health care, costs will increase immeasurably. My example earlier of the net cost of filling a Norco script going up by 90x was due to the doctor's practice being taken over by a FQHC (Federally Qualified Health Center) because the doctor was tired of the bullshit mandates being put on him, simply wanted to practice medicine, and sold his practice to an entity that must jump through all of the government's hoops.

You're taking a look at this issue with a very serious bias against the idea. Its not about simply "transferring the gross cost and declaring it a savings". Its about centralizing and streamlining the entire system. You seem to think that moving the system to a single payer model will retain the same costs. That's not how it works anywhere that actually has a single payer system. Our current health care system is based on game theory(aka the notion that self-interest can be used to provide for the greater good. It means everyone from the equipment manufacturers and service companies to the doctors and insurance companies are trying to squeeze as much profit as possible out of every patient.

Its shameful that in the richest country in the history of the world we have people arguing that unless we sacrifice a portion of our population things will collapse for everyone else. Its not true that we must do so and its disgusting that people would take that position.

A big part of the problem is the fact that people don't understand how fiat currencies work, and deeply misunderstand how taxes and spending actually work. In certain aspects, the government can spend without significant consequence. Using the health care payments as a means of greening the dollar would kill two birds with one stone. It puts money into circulation and bypasses doing so through bankers. Win win.

 

[Robney]

You guys are hilarious. The debt is slated to grow at the slowest percentage rate since Clinton was President, we just had a President that added more debt than every prior President combined, and NOW you have discovered fiscal responsibility. Funny stuff!

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

From your website:

Trump's Fiscal Year 2019 budget projects the debt will increase $8.3 trillion during his first term. It's almost as much as Obama added in two terms while fighting a recession. Trump has not fulfilled his campaign promise to cut the debt. Instead, he's done the opposite.

 

[White Beard]

...f anyone actually thinks that healthcare would be improved, just look at the 88-year history of the VA.

The VA was doing fine before a Shrub appointee began to privatize Veterans Services, and before Congress began underfunding veterans health facilities.

Walter Reed Hospital, the finest military health facility in the US, and one of the finest research and surgical hospitals in the world, and the *pride* of the US army, destroyed by congressional and administrative neglect, poor staffing, and general deterioration.

I have no idea how many veterans you know, but I have spent considerable time at the Soldiers and Airmen Home, visiting friends who live there. Based on my own knowledge of events, and live-action reports from veterans on the front lines of veterans healthcare, I can say confidently that veterans care in this country has been deliberately destroyed by intentional bureaucratic corrosion. This has primarily happened as a result of choices and decisions made during Republican regimes, and if you’ll stop listening to what they TELL you and start looking at what they actually DO, you should have no trouble seeing it.

This has been “conservative” game plan since the Reagan years: to undermine government fairness, efficiency, and integrity, to blame PoC, “snowflakes”, and Democrats at large, to constantly act against the welfare of their constituents in office, and thereby erode public confidence in government, thereby destabizing its ability to run the country. Follow this up with the constant refrain that “government is broken, send more of us to Congress and we’ll fix it, this time for *sure*!” And predictably we now have a government that has *no* institutional opposition of any kind to the most extreme elements of the so-called ‘right’, yet still they, and you, blame the democrats. Talk about derangement syndromes.... The alt-wing media machine makes sure you get your dose of outrage for the day, and they wield y’all as a WMD come election time, and once in office, they make it easy for everything to go up in price, which makes the donors happy.

The why is pretty transparent: to privatize, minimize, and eliminate as many public services as they can before getting tossed out of office again; to sell off as much of the national heritage as possible for as little as possible in return for favors and a comfortable unearned salary after leaving government; and to extend “conservative” dominance in the states to the point where there are enough Republican statehouses to call an article 5 constitutional convention.

Such a convention would not be full of grassroots patriots of any description: it will be full of the agents of the very wealthiest, and I dare say they already have their new constitution already written; and it will be the end of the United States of America in every meaningful way.

 

[igrowone]

one item of interest if you have universal coverage
you really don't need a VA administered health care system
there's so much insane redundancy

 

[White Beard]

The Man won’t let me rep you :tip hat:

The Man won’t let me rep you :tip hat:

A big part of the problem is the fact that people don't understand how fiat currencies work, and deeply misunderstand how taxes and spending actually work. In certain aspects, the government can spend without significant consequence. Using the health care payments as a means of greening the dollar would kill two birds with one stone. It puts money into circulation and bypasses doing so through bankers. Win win.

At its most basic, money tracks the movement production and use of resources, and should reflect the true cost of production. Because of our insistence on wealth and profit and ownership, we have turned it into a measure of wealth and of power, which drives economic inequality. Repressed wages and low/no taxes means more money for those who own it, and less for those who earn it through skill, expertise, and /or labor. It’s baked into how we think about the entire subject: to the person who is paying you for whatever, you are labor, you are a commodity, the cost of your employment will be minimized, as will your bargaining power.

Anyone who is paid what they’re worth is really quite lucky.

 

[packerfan79]

thats the whole problem, why should medical care be something that lazy fucks can invest in and live off the profits off the misery of their fellow man? seems a bit sick no? pay them out and shut it all down, health care is too important. you guys could be pioneers and make a totally new system built purely for the benefit of it's users, nothing else, the best possible care at the best possible price. sooner or later nearly everyone needs health care.

So, every investor is a lazy fuck?

Do you have a retirement account?

Are you a lazy fuck?

It's pretty shitty to assume that anyone who invests is a lazy fuck.

I have a 401k and a partial pension. Am I a lazy fuck?

I guess so. This lazy fuck has put 50 hours in this week, with 2 more days to go.

I have recently stuck up for you when you were attacked.

I guess I now regret that.

 

[rives]

You're taking a look at this issue with a very serious bias against the idea. Its not about simply "transferring the gross cost and declaring it a savings". Its about centralizing and streamlining the entire system. You seem to think that moving the system to a single payer model will retain the same costs. That's not how it works anywhere that actually has a single payer system. Our current health care system is based on game theory(aka the notion that self-interest can be used to provide for the greater good. It means everyone from the equipment manufacturers and service companies to the doctors and insurance companies are trying to squeeze as much profit as possible out of every patient.

Its shameful that in the richest country in the history of the world we have people arguing that unless we sacrifice a portion of our population things will collapse for everyone else. Its not true that we must do so and its disgusting that people would take that position.

A big part of the problem is the fact that people don't understand how fiat currencies work, and deeply misunderstand how taxes and spending actually work. In certain aspects, the government can spend without significant consequence. Using the health care payments as a means of greening the dollar would kill two birds with one stone. It puts money into circulation and bypasses doing so through bankers. Win win.

I've had enough dealings with the government to KNOW that they are incapable of administering something of this magnitude without totally fucking it up. The government has no skin in the game, and thus no motivation to do things economically or efficiently. They simply pass the expense through...

From your website:

A straight dollar value bypasses any allowance for inflation. Looking at the increase as a percentage of the balance is a more accurate measure. Franklin Roosevelt only added $236 billion, but that equated to a 1,048% increase. Per the article, in 8 years, Obama added 74% to the debt. In 4 years, Trump is projected to add 29%. Doubling that for a subsequent term takes you to 58%.

The VA was doing fine before a Shrub appointee began to privatize Veterans Services, and before Congress began underfunding veterans health facilities.

That is simply bullshit. I spent quite a bit of time around the VA in the early-'70's, and no, it was not "doing fine".

 

[Zeez]

There there now. Maybe you need some time off.

So, every investor is a lazy fuck?

Do you have a retirement account?

Are you a lazy fuck?

It's pretty shitty to assume that anyone who invests is a lazy fuck.

I have a 401k and a partial pension. Am I a lazy fuck?

I guess so. This lazy fuck has put 50 hours in this week, with 2 more days to go.

I have recently stuck up for you when you were attacked.

I guess I now regret that.

 

[rives]

one item of interest if you have universal coverage
you really don't need a VA administered health care system
there's so much insane redundancy

It would also take care of Worker's Compensation, which would be a huge boost if done well. Of course, it is destined to be even more screwed up than Worker's Comp because that is limited to the incompetence within each state...

 

[Mengsk]

I'll have to catch up to read what's here since I last posted about racism in this bomber thread. But through the looking glass the concept of finance is on shaky ground. I don't mean shtf like invasion or something. I just mean you can't be lazy and expect your check to come every month if you are old and rich or retired or worked your whole life or whatever. Because it doesn't make any sense for an investor (like I borrowed just $1mil from dad) to receive monthly checks or residuals for anything. Working for $15 an hour after paying $60k for college while 'old lazy rich people get pension checks' just doesn't add up no matter how you look at it. The cost on health care (I'm sorry to say, at my own expense or what) is that some part of the population goes regularly or relies on it. And younger and/or healthy people don't use it. Knock on wood I'm not going to a doctor for anything unless I need to which isn't very often and if I do I'm going to need service and I'm going to be able to pay what I have which isn't much. Juxtapose those two things growing pot and medicine. What if cannabis oil saves the nation. Now I've got hemp oil coca-cola on one side and pharma on the other. What is my human value if I offer to perform surgeries part time, or grow weed part time, or full time? That is not the point - in fact pharma is bad put a stamp on it don't overcomplicate things here that's the takeaway. 40 hours not 80 or 120 hours sign over your soul. I'm not ranting about why didn't anyone help me with a million dollar grant to support my human health research and what good that could have done over the past 10-15 years. To be clear I've tried to work with pharma as entry level to partner to doctor and everything in between on paper and in person i.e. in the community. That would be another subject completely. I have tried that already as a matter of fact. It takes a long time to say, there may be a point of no return. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iyaric

 

[xavier7995]

I saw a trump bomber van a few days back. He wasnt quite there, window coverage on his big creepy rape van was only about 50-75%, but i laughed a bunch. I waved the dude in when he was trying to pull out into traffic, he gave my prius driving self the finger for my efforts. Such is life and thats my story.

 

[St. Phatty]

I saw a trump bomber van a few days back. He wasnt quite there, window coverage on his big creepy rape van was only about 50-75%, but i laughed a bunch. I waved the dude in when he was trying to pull out into traffic, he gave my prius driving self the finger for my efforts. Such is life and thats my story.

You mean like, a MAGA-mobile ?


The Trump Hoax bomber was a total poser. Nothing like the Anthrax mailer after 9-11, who (we are told) did take some lives.

If we're going to get upset about stuff that doesn't blow up, then we're going to be upset about E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G.

I suggest it's better to worry accurately, about real threats to our health. America medical care, for example.

 

[gaiusmarius]

So, every investor is a lazy fuck?

Do you have a retirement account?

Are you a lazy fuck?

It's pretty shitty to assume that anyone who invests is a lazy fuck.

I have a 401k and a partial pension. Am I a lazy fuck?

I guess so. This lazy fuck has put 50 hours in this week, with 2 more days to go.

I have recently stuck up for you when you were attacked.

I guess I now regret that.

in no way was that aimed at you. i apologize if it offended you, that wasn't my intention. how would i know where your pension money is invested?

it's a fair point about the pensions and 401ks. they would have to buy those people out with a massive bail out. the funds could be invested elsewhere in the private market. remember all these insurance companies are profitable, so the new healthcare central would make money in the long run too and be able to pay back the bail out, specially if they are now running not for the benefit of their share holders profits, instead running to provide health care at the best possible price and quality. profits would be used soley for better equipment and reducing premiums where possible. the whole population will be shareholders who are guaranteed health care at no additional expense.

you would need to think outside the box. no lobbyist would be allowed to help build the system concept. instead you do it with a committee of highly intelligent people from all sides giving them the job to come up with a full proof system, something where the ceo is elected by the public every 2 years, so if he screws up he can be got rid of. it would need to be carefully watched for corruption etc, but with the right rules and the right concept this could be revolutionary. the US could once again be an example to the world about some thing positive, like in the old days, when the whole world looked up to you guys.

 

[Gry]

You mean the money they earned. It's not the government's money. It is NOT a gift.

...the power of advertising.

 

[Brother Nature]

Yeah the banks earned the $700 billion dollar bailout because they created the financial crisis in the first place.

 

[Zeez]

That's the fact. The money doesn't evaporate. Some people loose and the other people get their money. How'd that one work out for everyone?

Yeah the banks earned the $700 billion dollar bailout because they created the financial crisis in the first place.