Organic Fanatic Collective

[jaykush]

You just jogged my memory, have you though of drying nettle leaves out and grinding them down and adding them to the soil?

ummm actually ive never tried that, i was taught to use it in a tea. also i was told to use the leaves as they have all the stuff i want in them. i guess there could be room to experiment but as far as i know the leaves do there job well in a tea. and honestly they dont really smell. at all.

Also, I was just curius, spinach tastes alot like nettles when you steam the leaves and eat it, similar qualities?...tea?....

well nettles are a really healthy meal for you as well. theres tons of protiens and amino acids and vitamins that will benefit your body. it does taste a bit like spinach but uck i hate that stuff. *just seen the post above me so its all in there*


suby -20 holy crap. its 40 here and i think its fuckin cold.

 

[Suby]

Yep, my balls chime the minute I step outside, today is milder like -5 + windchill factor, still nipply but almost like spring.

Good post BBC, I'll have a look into wheatgrass, I hadn't though of it in a tea.

Jay- I'm asking because I'm thinking seaweed is great in powdered for, the hard part of drying seaweed is you need to rinse if to remove salts whereas nettles would just need some baking in the sun, I guess we could freeze it and thaw it out in a tea.

I a dying to get a grow going. I'll post some links to the coco soon.

Peace

 

[Suby]

Coco and it's benefits and specs

Coco and it's benefits and specs

Here is a bit of info that i've collected that i found concise and usefull.

Chemical processing

Before the coir is processed into substrates that are suitable for professional horticulture, it needs to be buffered. Coir has a complex chemical structure. All complex compounds are neutrally charged by nature. After all, nature is always searching for a balance. The core is negatively charged and surrounded by a layer of positively charged ions. These positively charged coir ions primarily consist of potassium (K+) and sodium (Na+). Apparently, the coconut palm produces potassium before bearing fruit. Potassium and sodium are positively charged monovalent coir ions. If the coir were used for horticultural purposes without buffering, its structure would, with the use of a nutrient solution, exchange positively charged monovalent ions for positively charged bivalent ions until a new balance is found. Calcium (Ca2+) and magnesium (Mg2+) are the elements in the nutrient solution that are primarily responsible for this exchange. Positively charged bivalent ions have a stronger bond with the negatively charged core than the positively charged monovalent ions. As a result, the complex compound releases potassium and sodium, which is made available to the plant. The calcium and magnesium from the nutrient solution is absorbed by the complex compound and thus no longer made available to the plant. Moreover, the nutrient solution contains potassium as well. To prevent a potassium surplus, the exchange must take place before the substrate reaches the cultivator. This process is strictly monitored by BVB Research. Afterwards, the coir must be rinsed to reduce the EC levels, which are too high after the exchange. If the substrate is treated and flushed in the country where the coconut was grown, residue material can be used as fertiliser by the local banana, coconut and cashew nut plantations. Instead of a waste flow in the Netherlands, the material is sustainably recycled into substances that can be used on the plantations.

Better growth results

Why are better growth results obtained with coconut substrates than with other substrates, particularly in the beginning? Coir is believed to contain substances that stimulate plant growth, although there is no scientific evidence to substantiate this. Much is known, however, about the properties of cotyledons (such as the coconut and the peanut). In addition to the embryo itself, the seed usually contains storage food to ensure the survival of the embryo. Later, it serves as food for the seedling. Food for the embryo is stored in the endosperm, which mainly consists of fats in the bark. Storage food is extracted from other parts of the plant. Hormones (auxins, cytokinins and gibberellins) play a crucial role in the process. Developing seeds produce auxins and gibberellins.
Seeds contain large quantities of cytokinins which are extracted from the sap flow. These three hormones stimulate the active and high-level intake of substances from the sap flow. When seeds ripen, hormone activity slows down as a result of decay, and conjugation (rest) in particular. If subsequent variable conditions (humidity, temperature, oxygen and light) are favourable, the hormones emerge from ‘hibernation’ and promote germination (cytokinins and gibberellins in particular). The presence of the hormones in the cotyledons of coconuts could well be the answer to the question as to why coir substrates seem to promote more rapid and better growth of seedlings. To fill the scientific gap, BVB Research has started to investigate this subject.


Coco Peat

Cocopeat is the 'coir fibre pith' or 'coir dust' produced as a bi-product when coconut husks are processed for the extraction of the long fibres from the husk. Produced from entirely renewable organic resources, coco peat products feature increased water use effeciency, superior air capacity, and work well with both organic and inorganic plant nutrients.

The coir dust is washed, heat treated, screened and graded before being processed into various coco peat products for horticultural and agricultural applications. Coco peat was first introduced into English horticulture as a growing medium more than 135 years ago.

Cocopeat is a multi-purpose soil conditioner and container gardening growing medium. It is consistent and uniform in texture and is now available in fine and coarser, more fibrous consistencies. It is a completely homogenous material composed of millions of capillary micro-sponges, that absorb and hold up to eight times their own weight in water. The natural pH is generally between 5.5 and 6.5 combined with a 30 to 70 percent air to water ratio that assures coir will hold and release nutrients in solution over extended periods with reduced watering.

Coco Coir
Coco coir is a relatively new growing medium available these days for the hydroponics soil less culture. Coco coir is being produced as a bi-product of the coconut tree. Coconut husk is processed to produce fibrous material for use as a growing medium.

History
Coconut coir (fiber made out of coconut shells) has been used in different parts of the world for many years. Initially this fiber had been used for making twine, mats and brooms by western civilizations, but it had never been looked at as a growing medium for plant growth in the western world, although it had been used as a growing medium in ancient India and China. The use of this product as a medium for plant growth started in the late '80s, and moved into the commercial sector in the early 90s. Since then its use has increased day by day in home gardening, growing roses and vegetable production, and in the hydroponics industry in general.

Coconut coir is one of the most versatile materials man has ever extracted from Mother Nature. It has traveled a long way since its humble beginnings as the ubiquitous tying ropes. Coir today is used to make everything from door mats to rugs, rubberized coir mattresses, decorative rugs, garden supplies and growing medium. It is not just a natural product - it also has some winning advantages that make this product a premium choice for modern soil less growing systems.

Properties
Coco coir is a proven best alternative to any growing media. Its use as a growing medium outperforms any other medium used for growing vegetables, ornamentals and tree plants. Its soft structure promotes easy root penetration and healthy growth. Coco coir is 100% environmentally friendly. It is a renewable resource that is consistent in quality. Coco coir has the best physical and chemical properties to promote better plant growth.

• Coco has high water-holding capacity. It can hold water up to eight times of its weight and release it over a period of time.
• Coco has ideal pH in the range of 6-6.7
• It has excellent drainage and air porosity for better plant growth
• Coco is very low in EC and carries mostly potassium salts, which is an essential major plant nutrient
• Cation exchange capacity is very good
• Coco coir has some anti-fungal properties that help plants to get rid of soil borne diseases. It inhibits pathogens like Pithium
• Coco is very easy to re-hydrate after being dehydrated
• It is a biodegradable source that degrades very slowly and has a life of three to four years
• Contains significant amounts of phosphorous (10-50ppm) and potassium (150-450 ppm)

As mentioned above Coco coir is not just a natural product with very good properties for plant growth - it also has some winning advantages over other growing mediums.

Advantages of Coco Coir
• It is a 100% renewable resource
• Coco coir is light in weight
• It is consistent in high quality
• Coco coir is completely environmentally friendly
• The top of the product layer in grow bags/pots always remain dry, leaving behind no chances of fungal growth
• Coco coir never shrinks, cracks or produces crust
• It promotes better root systems in a short time
• Coco coir is odorless, pleasant to handle, and uniform in composition

 

[Suby]

This is a good article from Maximum Yield, if you've never read their articles it is really a growers magazine, they have alot of usefull articles and I pick it up free at my local hydrostore when I can.

The Benefits of Coco Coir

By Erik Biksa



In North America, a trend in indoor gardening has been a shift towards soilless growing practices versus hydroponics. One of the primary differences in this cultural practice is that plants are watered manually. This is usually accomplished with the aid of a submersible pump, length of hose, and a watering wand delivering the nutrient solution from a reservoir/cistern where the nutrients are prepared. While in hydroponics, the nutrients are mechanically circulated to individual planting sights typically via emitters, sprayers, flood/ drain fittings, etc. Also in hydroponics, there is typically much less growing media which is usually inert, and the nutrients are most often re-circulated.

Traditionally peat based soilless mixes have been the most widely used by growers. Bear in mind that you are much more likely to encounter a peat bog in North America than you are a coconut plantation. Since the supply is already in our backyard, it has been the natural choice.

Peat is typically stripped from bogs. The composition of different peat deposits varies widely, depending on the vegetation from which it originated, state of decomposition, mineral content and degree of acidity (Lucas et al. 1971; Patek 1965). The colour may range from dark black to a light tan depending on the source, moisture content, and other parent material present. Basically there are three types of peat: Moss Peat, Reed Sedge, and Peat Humus. The one most commonly found in commercial soilless blends is the Moss Peat variety, which is most often milled from Sphagnum moss. It is relatively inert, light in weight, holds up to 10 times its weight in water, is acidic, has some cation exchange capacity (CEC), and contains little if any beneficial nutrients. Bogs are a relatively “non-renewable” source of growing media when compared to coconut coir.

Coco coir is the fiber that results from the processing of coconuts (the removal of the “nut” from its fibrous encasing). The coir fiber is a by-product of an existing process and is quite renewable when compared to peat moss sources. The fiber is arguably more bio-active than peat fibers resulting from bog conditions. The coconut, as we know it from the grocer’s, is surrounded by tough fibers in a green casing where it is attached to the tops of coconut trees swaying in the breeze in tropical conditions. The coconut tree is a well adapted plant, in its ability to populate an area through the “seed”; the coconut. As the coconut matures on the tree, it breaks free and may fall a considerable distance. It may roll down an elevation before coming to rest, or it may become water borne and float for many months and wash up far from its origin. In any case, the coconut is able to germinate and root itself in sandy and often saline (salty) conditions miles away from its parent conditions. We are talking about a 6 to 8” high octane seed here! As a matter of fact, sterilized coconut milk is often added o the growing media as a source of hormones and nutrients in plant tissue culture.

The coconut is teaming with naturally occurring growth hormones and other bio-stimulants that are inherent to the survival of the species, which fortunately for growers may be found in the fibers surrounding the “seed” which may be processed for use as a growing medium. As with peat, there are factors affecting the quality of use of the coir as a growing medium. The origin and age of the parent material largely plays a role in the fiber qualities. Coconuts harvested when fully mature contain more lignins and cellulose. These fibers are tough and durable enough to manufacture rope from. Interestingly, coconut fiber is the only natural fiber resistant to breaking down in salt water. This helps make it ideal for indoor gardeners, as nutrient solutions, particularly popular inorganic varieties and the salts they contain, play a role in the erosion of growing medias over the course of the crop.

After coconuts are harvested, the fibrous husk is removed from the coconut “seed”. An interesting fact about coconut harvesting from the Royal Botanical Gardens, KEW website: “…in some coconut-growing areas in Indonesia and Thailand the pig-tailed macaque monkey (Pithecus memestrinus) has been trained to climb the trees to collect the nuts. The monkeys are well-treated and prized for their skill….”

After the coir fiber is separated from the nut, it is then soaked in slow moving pools or streams to moisten it, allowing for further separation and processing. If the coir fiber is intended for high value horticultural crops, care must be taken to remove salts. Often these streams are near or contain saltwater. Some sources of coir are high in sodium, as a result of poor conditioning. “Double washed” coir fibers tend to have significantly lower levels of impurities such as sodium.

To help determine the quality of your new and unfertilized coir fiber, flush 1.5 liters of distilled water through 1 liter of growing media, and measure the runoff with a dissolved solids tester. This is based on the Dutch RHP method of analytical procedure. Chart 1-A illustrates the final analysis of two coco coir samples that are well suited to growing applications based on their salt content. Note that the test does not provide information as to the structure of the coir, just specific ions as impurities. Both samples have significant levels of soluble Calcium, Magnesium, and Potassium, suggesting that they have been pre-treated to satisfy the CEC requirements of the soil.

An overall value of 150 ppm or less characterizes a very pure material, while values up to 500 ppm have likely been treated to condition the media. Values greater than 500 ppm should be suspect in containing excessive sodium levels. Sodium levels should be kept as low as possible. Levels at over 100 ppm would be considered excessive and over 250 ppm are considered toxic.

I have spoken with several growers who had tried coconut coir as a growing media several years back when it was first being introduced to the indoor gardening marketplace. They did not continue to use the media, and switched back to peat based soilless mixes. After working with some of the older coconut coir available I can see why. Firstly, the earlier coco coirs available contained extremely high levels of sodium. In one batch tested, the leechate was over 1000 ppm! Keep in mind, that’s with just fresh water being run through the containers. Also the fiber quality was very poor. The coco was lighter in colour, suggesting immature fibers. The result was a powdery growing media that had poor structure for root growth and aeration. Coupled with high sodium levels, the crop was limited from the day it was planted. The coconut coir available to indoor gardeners in North America today is usually leaps and bounds ahead of the coir that was available just a few years ago.

Coconut coir that is optimal for plant growth also tends to be near neutral in pH (7.0). This helps ensure proper ionic balances in nutrient solutions, as fewer additions of pH adjusters are typically required to compensate for the pH of the growing media (i.e. rockwool has a very high pH).

Coconut coir as a growing media can be purchased in either loose or dried and compressed forms. The loose forms are already hydrated and are usually ready to be added to containers or raised beds for planting. The compressed forms require hydrating. Although the hydration process may be laborious, the dried and compressed blocks are much easier to transport to and inside of the growing location. The blocks are ideal for remote outdoor gardens. In compressed form, the blocks typically take up about 1/5th of the space as commercial peat mixes, and are much lighter in weight. For example a 5KG block of compressed coco coir measures about 10” X 10” X 4” and when expanded yields near 72 liters of high quality growing media. That’s enough to fill nine 2 gallon pots; one block per 1000W HID lamp.

Some coirs have been chemically treated, this is most often the case with loose pre-hydrated varieties versus compressed blocks. The treatment has been done to satisfy the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the growing media. As a refresher, “cations” are positively charged ions, such as Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium. This means that the growing media will hold these ions in a matrix, releasing them as required by plants. There is one slight drawback to this. Until the cation exchange capacity of the growing media is filled, the growing media may hold positively charged nutrient ions, most notably calcium, in reserve, making them less available to plants. However, the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the coir media is quickly filled, and actually assists calcium absorption in the crop cycle. To ensure optimum availability of all nutrients, supply additional calcium during the first week of growth or during the hydrating process of the coconut coir. Calcium supplement products are ideal for this. Some nutrients specifically formulated for coco tend to have elevated levels of calcium and magnesium while having lower levels of nitrogen.

Coir is the ideal growing media for organic and hydro-organic applications. The air volume retained harbours greater populations of beneficial (oxygen loving) soil organisms than peat mixes. Increased population levels of soil micro-organisms play a strong role in high yielding organic gardens.

One of the most impressive attributes of coconut coir as a growing medium is the level of aeration and structure supplied to the rootzone. A coarse, good quality coir is difficult to over water. Basically, if you supply too much moisture it will just run out the bottom of the container, and will not become water logged (anaerobic) like peat based mixes may. The coconut fibers are much tougher and coarser than those of peat. This means more airspace is available for drainage and to supply the roots and soil life with higher levels of atmospheric oxygen (O2). Coir fiber will not compact over the course of the crop as with peat. With peat, we all remember filling the pot right to the top at the start of the crop, only to find that a third of the media is “gone” by harvest. What is happening is that the peat fibers are eroding from the force of watering, saline conditions, and the roots compacting the media. This robs the crop of valuable air space in the rootzone, and increases salt build-up as drainage is impeded. With coir fiber there is little if any compaction of the growing media over the cropping cycle due to the higher content of lignins and cellulose found in the physically coarser fibers. In container grown crops, little compaction is evident. Plants receive optimal water to air ratios over the course of the entire crop, not just the first few weeks.

Coconut coir is the ideal choice for raised bed production for several reasons. Firstly, many raised beds have been constructed without drainage. Moisture and nutrient management become much more temperamental in this type of growing situation. If you over water, there is much less of a chance of drowning roots. The coir fiber will retain airspace throughout the growing media, and the excess moisture will pool at the bottom, where it may wick up through the growing media, as coir tends to have excellent capillary movement for moisture and nutrients. To see just how resilient the air space is in coir, pick up a handful after thoroughly soaking and squeeze the material. When you open your hand, you may be surprised to find the media springing back like a sponge. Try this with peat, and you will not see any memory for macro pore space. Also, the coir fiber is resistant to breaking down under saline conditions, such as those found in non-draining raised beds, particularly those that are re-used over several crops. If the growing media is to be re-used the coir fiber will resist breaking down from mechanical handling (i.e removing old roots, mixing in growing amendments), while peat tends to become not much more than dust after several cropping cycles. In Holland, coir has been used to grow long term crops such as roses for periods longer than 10 years! The cation exchange capacity of the coir fiber also helps to reduce the incidence of salt burn, as it offers some buffering against positively charged ions such as sodium. When re-using any growing media, impurities such as sodium tend to accumulate over time. Organic based nutrients allow for a longer periods of use over multiple crops, as they tend to have less salts as impurities.

Unlike peat, coir may be used in re-circulating applications. In re-circulating drip systems it is recommended that the fiber be mixed 50/50 with either coarse perlite, pumice or grow rocks for faster drainage. Coir is also very suitable for flood and drain applications. There are coir products now available in the hydroponic marketplace that are excellent substitutes growing mediums. One such product is a small, plastic wrapped square of compressed coco coir. Once hydrated it expands into a 6” X 6” X 6” growing cube. Moisture management may differ from other media. Another benefit is that coco tends to have a near neutral pH value, so lesser quantities of pH adjusters are required in the nutrient solution. Excessive additions of pH adjusters may create an ionic imbalance in the nutrient solution, locking out or precipitating some nutrients.

One of the greatest benefits to using coco products is that disposal is easy and environmentally sound. The coir makes an excellent and natural looking top dressing to outdoor flower and vegetable gardens.

 

[Suby]

Ok peep last one, some info overlaps from the other articles but I like this last one.

Coco Coir


Coco coir has become the media of choice amongst Australian growers over the past 5 years.

On a recent trip around Australia I was surprised to learn of the volumes of coir that retailers are now selling, with many (most) retailers telling me that coco coir now typically represents at least half, or more, of their media sales.

This speaks volumes about the humble coir because much of its’ ascending star has been driven by consumer choice and (hence) demand.



Positives


Occasionally I get onto websites and discuss coir with novice growers. The way I explain it to them is that coir represents the best of soil and hydro in a single media. While this is a simplistic method of describing coirs unique properties, it is also an effective way to help growers understand the media’s natural buffering qualities, natural root zone preservation qualities and the ability to provide optimized nutrition via hydroponic technologies.

To me, this makes coir the ideal media for novices who often grow in less than ideal environments. That is, coco coir, more so than any other media is extremely forgiving.

pH Buffering

Coco coir buffers at between pH 5.5 and 6.5. This means the media helps to maintain optimum root zone pH (resulting in optimum nutrient uptake).

Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC)

Coir has a high cation exchange capacity.

Cation exchange capacity refers a medias ability to exchange cations between mineral and organic matter and the plants roots.

Cations are positively charged elements such as calcium (Ca++), magnesium (Mg++), and potassium (K+).



Cations are held by negatively charged particles called colloids. The defining feature of colloids is that the particles are small and consequently the total surface area is huge. For this reason the negatively charged colloids are capable of holding enormous quantities of positively charged cations.

As plant roots uptake cations, other cations in the nutrient replace them on the colloid.

If there is a concentration of one particular cation in the media, other cations will force them off the colloid and take their place.

This means that a mineral balance is maintained in coir and these minerals are readily available for uptake.


Root Zone Health

Coco coir provides excellent insulation. This means that coco coir isn’t as prone to overheating, due to excessive ambient air temperatures, as many other mediums (making it ideal for warm geographical zones). This is because water tends to make its way into the lower regions of the coco coir, leaving the top layer dry. Because of this, heat needs to penetrate a drier top layer of coco coir before reaching the watered areas of the media. As water is a great conductor of energy (in the form of heat) the lower wet area being protected by a drier surface helps keep the lower areas of the media, where the bulk of the root mass is found, cooler. As media temperature and oxygen levels are interrelated (the warmer the media, the less oxygen) this insulation plays an important role in promoting root health.

Compare coco coir to rockwool, another run–to-waste media. There are some significant differences in moisture distribution and media insulation qualities. Rockwool tends to become evenly saturated. Water, thus, distributes evenly from top to bottom, leaving the rockwool, typically, very damp. This means that heat can travel throughout the media (dry rockwool is an excellent insulator; it is simply that water conducts heat). When the ambient air temperature is excessively warm, so too is the media. Depending on the extent of this problem (too warm – not enough oxygen), oxygen availability to the root zone can become dangerously low.

As I’ve already pointed out, coco coir tends not to do this. Water displaces from the surface of the media and moves into the lower regions. Because of this the media generally remains significantly cooler around the root zone of the plant.

Secondly, coco coir contains natural rooting compounds, in the form of potassium (electrolytes) and phosphorous (enzyme function/sugar production). Both potassium and phosphorous stimulate root growth and development.

Thirdly, coco coir has excellent air filled ‘porosity’ – the term used for the levels of oxygen availability (critical for transpiration) in the media. This is due to the large surface area of coco coir particles. As oxygen plays an all-important role in respiration (roots pumping nutrient to the plant) this factor further promotes root and (hence) plant health.

What all of these factors add up to is that coco coir provides a sound environment for the plant’s root zone. This factor should not be underestimated because healthy roots invariably lead to a healthy plant (and a healthy yield).


The Fundamentals of Coir (the good, the bad, and the ugly)

The coconut palm, unlike many other plants’, is a salt tolerant plant.

What happens with salt tolerant plants’ is that they uptake salt and displace it to areas of the plant where the salt can do the least harm. In the case of the coconut palm the salt is displaced to the coir – the very thing that we use as a growing media. This means coir can contain high levels of salt (sodium chloride), something which can prove toxic to many/most plants.

On top of this coir contains large amounts of potassium and quantities of other elements.

What this means is that coir requires special treatment to ensure a premium quality hydroponic media product is supplied to the end user.

Analysis of Coco Coir Sample

S 1978
P 126
K (Potassium) 3700*
Na (Sodium) 2022 *
Ca 119
Mg 104
Cu
Zn 3.2
Mn 3.8
Fe 12.2
B 7
Cl (Chloride) 3498*

All figures refer to parts per million (ppm).


Above, is an analysis of one batch of hydrated coco coir. It is easy to see that coco coir contains varying levels of micro and macro elements.

The most significant elements in the analysis are the high potassium levels and the extremely high sodium and chloride levels (sodium chloride = salt).

Potassium competes with magnesium and calcium while sodium competes with potassium for uptake. Furthermore, sodium chloride can be highly toxic to certain species of plants; even in relatively low levels, sodium chloride can have devastating effects on root health and development. For instance, this batch of coco coir caused phytotoxicity (yellowing of leaves, rusting/burning, sick plants etc) when trialled under controlled conditions next to another product that performed well.


Source of Material

Coir derived from palms that are grown 50kms inland will have far less sodium chloride present than coir that is derived from palms that are grown close to the sea. That is, less sodium chloride present in the soil results in less sodium chloride in the coir.

The origin of the coir is an important factor in determining the quality of the end product.



Flushing and Buffering

In order to prepare the raw coir product for use it is necessary to flush plentiful amounts of water through the product to wash out impurities (including sodium chloride).

Premium grade coir is then buffered with various elements to prepare the coir for use. This requires flushing the coir with mineral elements in order to compensate for potentially problematic levels of sodium chloride and potassium (and other elements where required).

For instance, Iron is sometimes used to offset sodium chloride while magnesium and calcium is used to compensate for the naturally present, often high levels of potassium and phosphorous (While potassium and phosphorous are naturally used by plants and are beneficial elements, extreme levels of these elements can result in imbalanced nutrition and mineral element lockout).

Typically, most suppliers of hydrated coir only flush the media and do not buffer it. This can prove detrimental to plant vigor and health, particularly in early growth.

Symptoms of toxicity include:

• Rusting (particularly on leaf edges)
• Yellowing
• Slow stunted growth
• Mineral deficiencies (due to uptake problems)
• Purpling of stem


Treatment/Age of Raw Product


Coco coir has a shelf life where optimum performance is concerned (due to organic decomposition factors).

Ideally the raw coir used in hydroponic medias should be less than two years old.

Older coir is difficult to manage and will not last as long as newer coir.


Tips for using Coir

Run-to-waste regime

After many years of experimenting in coir, both in indoor and outdoor settings, with various crops I have found that running a 25% - 30% waste regime is the most user friendly means of growing in coir.

The 25 – 30% waste regime ensures that salt buildup in the media is kept to a minimum, and means flushing is typically never required; the agricultural standard being a 30% waste regime with the runoff being no more than 0.4EC higher than the original nutrient feed.

EC can be tested in the runoff and be compared to the nutrient EC.


Air Porosity

Typically, the bagged (hydrated) coir products sold via hydroponic outlets consists of fine particles and coir dust. While this means excellent fluid retention, it also means less than ideal air porosity in the media. Adding Perlite to the media will increase air porosity. A 60% coir to 40% Perlite mix being ideal (50/50 is also OK).

Another means of increasing air porosity is by mixing larger coir particles into the coir fines/dust, thus lifting the media and achieving a similar effect to a coir/perlite mix.

pH

Ideally, the nutrient should be maintained at between 6.1 (grow) and 6.3 (bloom).

pH cannot be measured in the runoff. Ie. The runoff does not accurately reflect what is happening within the coir where pH is concerned. To test the pH of coir, take a sample of the coir from the root zone and add 1 part of coir to 5 parts of distilled water, shake and measure pH.

Happy reading, I'm jonesing to give it a try.

 

[jaykush]

you suck im gonna be sitting here for a while.

but yea man i dont see how it could hurt, i was just saying i was told to make a tea and thats it. im sure it would be great. i might give it a try actually. one with tea one as a soil amendment. who knows well see.

time to smoke a bowl

 

[Dan42nepa]

There is a guy on another forum (grasscity.com) who uses nettles for tea. His name is -mu and he seems to know his stuff.

 

[Guest]

This is influencing me to grow an outdoor garden specifically for homemade ferts if possible, some nettles, comfrey, vetch, etc.......any ideas for a selection of plants that would cover all nutrient needs?

russian comfrey, alfalfa, sugarcane... these are the three absolute essential plants in my opinion.

 

[jaykush]

nettles grow crazy, they can overtake your backyard if not cut often. they are a weed after all.

SatGhost has got it down too.

 

[Guest]

russian comfrey, alfalfa, sugarcane... these are the three absolute essential plants in my opinion.

comfrey is a nitrogen fixer

alfalfa is for nitro too so far as I have learned

and sugarcane? have no experience with it.

That's the info I was looking for satghost, thanks brodda.

If you can grow green manures for all your nute needs then naturally you can control how they are processed and used instead of being subject to uncontrollable issues such as stank and bugs and whatnot when dealing with an indoor garden. worm bins/castings, homemade compost etc. can also be used in the mix. with little to no surprises.......??

I don't have my own batcave, but some time ago Ganico posted plans on how to build a homemade bat house:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=43451

Organic growing to me really means organic, if at all possible it would be best to make your own ferts from absolute scratch, but then again, a light bulb is not exactly organic so...............hmmm......

 

[jaykush]

fresh guano......wow, i dont know if i would go that far. thats hardcore haha. plus no bats around here.

 

[jaykush]

bumpity bump

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Go back to post # 412 and see whta happened with my soil mix experiement.

minds_I

 

[Jam Master Jaco]

Bump bump

Can someone please make this a sticky. So much information in forum with *gasp* no stickies!

 

[the protege]

Although I would love to read all 31 pages, and I'm sure I will at some point, would it be possible for you all to critique my organic soil mix? I'm mixing some up for a friend. He has been trying to grow bagseed, and he's been using regular soil from wal-mart, so I'm wanting to fix him up a bit.

I'm probably going to grow in one large bed. 10-20 gallons.

30% perlite
20% worm castings
20% coir
30% Store bought soil. (pro-mix or sunshine mix, or whatever I can find)

To this I was going to add, ground egg shells (not sure on the quantity per gallon)
2 TS, green sand/ gallon

Will feed with teas in flower, using black strap molasses, and some various guanos. Perhaps even some Organic feeder I can by at a hydro store.

I've had a history of overwatering, and so I am trying to use a soil that is a little bit lighter and will allow it dry out rather quickly. Does anyone see a glaring weakness or perhaps something I could do much better?

I also need to ask, how do you all clone in organics? Do you just cut, stick in root promoter and then stick in soil? Any advice or links would be appreciated. I ran hydro previously and it was easy, but I am wanting to not mess with meters and topping off etc.

 

[Suby]

Hey P, welcome to the OFC.

That mix sounds like it would be very good, I've been toying with coir in an organic soil mix myself so i'll be anxious to see how it turns out.
The proportions sound spot on, if I had to make any suggestions it would be to use dolomite lime, coco can lock up magnesium and calcium ever so slightly, use less than an all soil recipe, like 1TBS per gallon of your mix, this way you can skip the eggshells, they'll never break down significantly enough to be of use, put them in a worm bin or a compost bin and they'll be of better use to you later.
It will be hard to overwater in that mix, it's impossible to overwater an all coir mix so between the perlite and coco you'll be watering your ass off lol.

Cloning is VERY easy, just take a small clear beer cup and use a half perlite, half soil mix, use soil not coir as it contains more nutrients and will kep your clones green longer without ferts, you could add a handfull of castings if you have alot, it will get the microherd going.

Meters are for hydrostore junkies, with a good recipe it will be of little use to measure anything.

Peace and read the thread whenever, it should be a sticky soon.

 

[Suby]

MI so the mix was pretty comparable to the OF eh?
I though it would be, they look pretty neck in neck, for the price I'd use the Kellogs too and just use a little more tea to make up the diff.

Thanks to all those that keep trying to make this thread an informative one.

Peace Friends

Oh and shout out to my friend Vonform, we been missin you man

Suby

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Suby I have 4 girls I transplanted to one gallon pots the other day. They were sick and in need of ferts.

I watered them in and I gave them a shot of tea and a spritz with kelp water.

They are looking up but I will have a better idea in a week.

Prior to transplating them, the Kellogg mix plants looked in slightly better shaped so I opted to try it again.

I just looked at them today and they are looking better.

I would love to see the Kelloggs perform as well as the FFOF. And if better that would be great- not so much from the cost aspect but rather the hype about FFOF being sooo good. Or any other "store bought" organic mix for that matter.

I will update as soon as I see any indication one way or another.

minds_I

Edit. 02/05

Hello all,

Heres a pic of the same girls above given a measured amount tea with 1/2 strenght fish squeezin's and eposm salts (1/2 teas/gal) twice since above post.



As you can see there is soem significant growth and greening up. SOme of the more def. leaves will not recovery and just die but the new growth is a nice dark green. They are in a growth spurt at the mmoment and I plant On e transplanting them in a week to thier flowering pots.

I like to let them root for a week and recover andd then flip them.

minds_I

 

[Suby]

But MI why bother?
You and I both know that by the time we take a so-so kind of soil and add kelp meal, EWC, bone/blood meal, alfalfa, perlite, etc. it is a soil superior to anything you could buy on the market?
I think alot of pre ammended or "rich" soil products are hyped just the the FFOF, just a plain bag pf soiless and you can turn it into a fully loaded bomb type soil.
By the time we start feeding bubbled teas every 2nd watering that soil is getting better and better.

Suby

 

[jaykush]

suby is right, your just paying them more for the stuff they put in. when you could make twice as good soil for half maybe even 1/4 the price. hell you could go outside, find the shittiest soil, and with some work it can be some of the best.