Organic Fanatic Collective

[Suby]

Hey Oax

Yeah I figured you use dolomite, especially with what you listed you.
That stone powder looks like a good product, I'll see if I can locate some in my area, I'd love to try it.

Seets

Peace
Sub's

 

[the protege]

Have my soil resting right now. Not completely mixed, but as soon as the other additives make it here it will be completed. I am starting a compost pile and a little worm bin to have some of my own stuff going. It seems much more fun when you can be unique!!!

My compost will have rabbit and horse poo. The sugarcane has me intrigued, even if I had to buy it just to throw it in there.

Superexcited to be growing organic and not using chemicals etc.

 

[Suby]

We are super excited to have you here, for going full out organic, it's more than just dirt it a way of life .
I'm still working on a wormbin, mostly I'm too lazy and my wife too eeeechded.

Keep us posted and welcome.
S

 

[Guest]

I couldn't get any dolomite lime so I added one cup and a half of this lime: http://www.fertilome.com/productImages.asp#LColor to one bag of FFOF. Is this okay as far as lime goes or did i ruin a whole bag of soil? Should i add more? Should I have added less? I also added 25% Perlite and 25% Vermiculite.

Thank you,

SecretAsainMan

EDIT: Scroll down to the letter H, and click the Hydrated Lime2. Thats the stuff I used.

 

[CaptJamesTKirk]

Hi SAM

Welcome and may you enjoy IC.

You can use the search finction - located at the top right side of the page - - find out a lot of good info.

I can't help with the lime - I use dolomite, about 2 tablespoons per gallon/4liters by volume.

I never add vermeculite - only pearlite and lime.

Use what you have and see how it works; growing is a learning curve thing and - while sometimes painful, it's usually rewarding.

Good luck!

CJTK

 

[emmy75]

heres a great organic fertilizer guide:

Organic Fertilizer and Soil Amendment Guide

Some information below adapted from The Chemical-Free Lawn by Warren Schultz.

General soil care objective Organic solutions


Promote large blooms and fruits
Bat guano (4-13-1)

Condition soil
Alfalfa meal (great for roses, quick release).
Pro-Gro (5-3-4)
Bio-Magic 0-0-12
Compost

Build plant hardiness and resistance to disease,
pests and drought:
Stress-X liquid seaweed biostimulant (great for lawns)

Promote root growth in transplants and seedlings:
Phosphate rock
Pro-Start
Myco-Magic
Bone meal
Bat guano

Add balance blend of main macro-nutrients (nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, and sulfur) plus greensand to provide important micronutrients:
Pro-Gro (5-3-4)
Winterize plants
Pro-Start

Enhance composting process:
Crab meal
Alfalfa meal (breaks down carbonaceous material)
Blood meal

Bind sandy soil:
Colloidal rock phosphate

Loosen clay soil:
Greensand
Sphagnum peat moss

Soil deficiency Symptoms How to correct

Acidity
Soil too acid: phosphorus, calcium, magnesium availability reduced.
Soil too alkaline: iron, zinc, manganese and copper not available.
Aragonite (sweetens soil without adding magnesium)
Dolomitic limestone (pelletized or powder)

Boron Slow growth, pale green tips, bronze tint
Boron 10%
Boron 14.3%

Calcium Reddish-brown leaves, may curl and die
Gypsum (for alkaline soils)
Calcium limestone flour
Phosphate rock
Fertrell CaFe 9-1-4
Dolomitic limestone (for acid soils)

Copper Yellow and stunted leaves, tips die
Copper sulfate
Reduce nitrogen fertilization

Iron Pale leaves, turning yellow
Iron (chelated 10%)
Fertrell CaFe 9-1-4
Iron sulfate
Reduce phosphorus fertilization

Magnesium Yellow stripes on leaves, turning red
Epsom salt (for alkaline soils)
Sul-Po-Mag
Dolomitic limestone (for acid soils)

Manganese Yellow spots on leaves, withered at tips
Manganese sulfate

Molybdenum Yellow and withered leaves Dolomitic limestone (for acid soils)

Nitrogen Light green or yellow-green leaves, may start dying at tips
Blood meal (quick release)
Cotton seed meal (advisory:acidifies soil)
Corn gluten meal 10-0-0
Cottonseed meal 6-1-1
Crab meal (slow release)
Feather meal (slow release)
Leather meal (slow release)

Phosphorus Thin sod, thin curled leaves, dusky blue-green with purple tint in cool weather
Raise pH (reduce acidity)
Bone meal (slow release - good for new plants/transplants)
Phosphate rock
Bat guano

Potassium Yellow tips on leaves, may turn brown and die at tips
Kelp meal (quick release, good for fruit/flower production)
Sul-Po-Mag
Granite meal
Greensand
Greensand Plus (0-0-17)for faster availability
Wood ashes (caution: too much can raise the pH level too high)
Sulfate of potash (0-0-52)

Sulfur Yellow leaves
Phosphate rock
Gypsum
Elemental sulfur

Zinc Small and yellow leaves
Zinc sulfate
Zinc chelates

Trace elements/minerals
Kelp meal (quick release, good for fruit/flower production)
Greensand
Granite meal
Stress-X liquid seaweed biostimulant
Bio-Magic 0-0-12

Microbial activity
Nature's Turf 8-1-9
Crab meal
Bio-Magic 0-0-12
Yuccah
Compost

 

[Suby]

Hey fellow fanatics

Emmy great post and good info, when I read it two things really got me thinking, one was the "Bio-Magic" product, I'm always on the lookout for a high potassium count fertilizer so I checked it out, I though I would post what I found here as it's a shitty PDF link type doc.

The second was alfala meal, I've seen a thread on it but I was interested in a particular component in alfalfa meal, it's come up too often lately for me to pass on the chance to post some info here.

Peace
Suby

Alfalfa Meal

Alfalfa provides many nutritional benefits not only for plant use, but for soil organisms as well. One very important ingredient is tricontanol, a powerful plant growth regulator.

Orchid and rose growers make an alfalfa tea and spray it directly on as a foliar fertilizer. Alfalfa is very high in vitamins, plus N-P-K-Ca, Mg, and other valuable minerals. It also includes sugars, starches, proteins, fiber and 16 amino acids. Approximate analysis is 3-1-2.

Sprinkle lightly over garden and water, or use about a handful (depending on the size) around each rose, tree, or shrub. Alfalfa meal and hay used for mulch contain vitamin A, folic acid, trace minerals and the growth hormone “tricontanol.” Use at 25 pounds per 1,000 square feet or 400-800 pounds per acre.

Alfalfa helps plants create larger flowers and increases the tolerance to cold. Make alfalfa tea by soaking 1 cup of alfalfa meal per 5 gallon of water.

Good for all flowering plants. Research has shown that using more is not better. At recommended rates alfalfa worked wonders on roses but it could be overused causing adverse effects.

Once you have improved the tilth of your soil with Compost and Manure, and provided a good reserve of the basic nutrients with Complete Organic Fertilizer Mix , you can provide your roses with a "shot" of nutrients for strong growth and good flowering.
Alfalfa tea is a natural and inexpensive fertilizer. Alfalfa pellets and meal are available from garden and feed supply stores in 50 lb. bags. Get together with your neighbors to share the cost (and transportation) of a bag or two. Pellets are easier to handle, but I feel that the meal makes a better fertilizer. Some also say that the higher temperature processing that goes into making pellets lowers the nutrient value of the alfalfa. Epsom salts are also available in bulk. In our area, Buckerfield's, Borden Merchantile and Integrity stock bulk feeds and fertilizers.

Dry alfalfa is a good slow-release source of nitrogen, but since you will be "digesting" it by letting it ferment in water, the resulting tea is a soluable, fast-acting nitrogen source. Also, by making alfalfa (or manure) tea, you don't have to worry about weed seeds sprouting from the fertilizer.

If you don't have time to make alfalfa tea, you can still sprinke alfalfa pellets on the ground in the spring - however the nutrients will take much longer to be released, it doesn't look as attractive, and the pellets can attract rodents. A better solution would be to use Complete Organic mix and add extra alfalfa meal to it, then scratch it into the surface of the soil.

Orchid and rose growers use alfalfa tea as a foliar spray. If you grow delphiniums and irises, they also love alfalfa tea. Some iris growers mulch their beds with alfalfa meal. And an additional benefit for delphiniums is that the Epsom salts in the tea help to ward off slugs and snails. In addition to nitrogen, alfalfa supplies enzymes and trace elements that are not present in chemical nitrogen fertilizers.

Alfalfa ingredients:

Triacontanol (growth stimulant)
Vitamin A (high concentration)
Thiamine
Riboflavin
Pantothenic Acid
Niacin
Pyridoxine
Choline
Bentaine
Folic Acid
co-enzymes
Crude proteins (16 - 25% in dry alfalfa)
Amino acids (% in alfalfa meal).

Tryptophan, 0.3 %
Aspartic Acid, 2.3%
Threonine, 1.0 %
Serine, 1.0%
Glutamic Acid, 2.7%
Proline, 1.2%
Glycine, 1.1%
Alanine, 1.1%
Cystine, 0.2%
Valine, 1.0%
Methionine, 0.3%
Isoleucine, 0.8%
Leucine, 1.6%
Tyrosine, 0.5%
Phenylalanine, 1.0%
Histidine, 0.4%
Lysine, Total, 1.1%
Arginine, 1.1%
Minerals (contained in dry alfalfa)

Nitrogen 3.75-5.5 %
Potassium .75 - 3.5 %
Phosphorus .3 - .7%
Calcium 1 - 2 %
Magnesium .30 - 1 %
Sulphur .2 - .5 %
Manganese 30-200 ppm
Iron 20-250 ppm
Boron 20-80 ppm
Copper 5-20 ppm
Zinc 20-70 ppm

this last one is on an interesting ingredient triacontinol, there have been other mention of it on this site, just though I would look into it further with you guys.

Triacontanol, N-Triacontanol, 1-triacontanol, Myrisyl alcohol.
Activates photosynthesis and improves productivity when sprayed on foliage.

What is it?

Triacontanol is a straight-chained alcohol that has 30 carbon atoms in its molecule.



The –OH group, typical for alcohols, is located at the end of the chain.

The chemical formula is C30H62O and the molecular weight is 438,82.

In room temperature pure triacontanol is in solid form and the melting point is +85-90°C.

Triacontanol is not water soluble. It is suluble in different organic, polaric and non-polaric solvents.

The international CAS-number for 1-triacontanol is 593-50-0.

Pure triacontanol can be harmful if swallowed or if it gets into ones eyes. No poisonous effects are known resulting from either short- or longterm exposure.

In nature triacontanol can be found in the cuticula of various plants and in beewax.It is in forms of esthers, which means that triacontanol has reacted with an acid and the condensed matter is found in the wax. 1-triacontanol, that was discovered in the 1930’s, can these days be also produced synthetically, resulting in a more pure product than when extracted from plant material.

The growth enhancing effects of triacontanol

In the late 1970’s the first observations of triacontanols growth enhansing effects were published in the USA. After this, research has been made all over the world, with the most important results of latter years coming from India, China and Japan. There is some commercial use of triacontanol in these areas, mainly in cotton and rice cultivation.

The best results have been extremely impressive and have given over 100% increases in yields.
The problem, however, has been that triacontanol is not water soluble and therefore makes it very hard to use in the small consentrations that are required. Also, in unrefined triacontanol, closely related substances seem to act as inhibitors and hinder positive effects.

Triacontanol has had good results as a bating-agent, when added to soil and most of all: as a foliar spray. For a long time it was unknown what caused the growth-improving effect of triacontanol. The latest researches suggest that triacontanol directly activates the genes that control photosynthesis. These genes in turn activate the enzymes controlling the chemistry of photosynthesis.

The way triacontanol works differs distinctively from the short-chained alcohols. Therefore triacontanol has given great increases in productivity also on so called C-4 plants as maize (corn).
With short-chained alcohols the photosynthesis enhancing effect is restricted to C-3 plants and by securing the Rubisco-enzyme with enough carbon. Short-chained alcohols must be used in larger quantities to achieve desired effect.

When applied together, triacontanol and ethanol affect plants photosyntetic process in two different ways. The effects don’t exclude but support eachother.

Peace
Suby

 

[emmy75]

good read, thanks suby
jackthegrower suggested to me the use of alfalfa during my first grow to help with the n def. i did lots of reading on it after to educate myself and i read nothing but great things. my plants seem to love it. its a great soil conditioner besides the added n and all the things listed in your post suby. i just feel conflicted now as my soil loves the alfalfa but i know the mj loves the guano. shold i choose great or great?

here the biggest of the bunch on the alfalfa meal tea.

 

[emmy75]

herbal tea? here are some interesting herbs that may be useful.

Many common garden herbs and weeds can provide nourishment and nutrients for growing plants, just as they would for people consuming them. As you weed, cut back or harvest these leafy garden greens, save them in a basket or bucket and combine or use them singly to make a botanical tea — recycle those nutrients — and fertilize your garden. Prepare a tea by infusing the whole or chopped leaves in water for a few hours or up to a few days, be sure to stir it every now and then. When you apply the tea, it is okay to use the leaves too, although they may be a bit slimy if you infuse them for more than a day. Below are just a few garden herbs we use:

Chicory, wild and cultivated, is high in potassium and contains calcium and vitamin A.

Comfrey leaves are a good source of calcium, phosphorus and potassium, and contain vitamins A and C, as well as other trace minerals.

Dandelion leaves contain vitamins A and C, as well as calcium and potassium.

Nettle leaves are packed full of nutrients from vitamins A, C, K, B1, B2, B3, B5, calcium, magnesium, phosphate, phosphorus, potassium, boron, bromine, copper, iron, selenium and zinc.

Parsley leaves provide a good amount of vitamins A and C, as well as iron, copper and manganese.

Perilla leaves are loaded with iron and calcium.

Watercress contains vitamins A, C, E, B3, B6, calcium, manganese and iron.

 

[Suby]

Shit this passed under my radar

Shit this passed under my radar

I couldn't get any dolomite lime so I added one cup and a half of this lime: http://www.fertilome.com/productImages.asp#LColor to one bag of FFOF. Is this okay as far as lime goes or did i ruin a whole bag of soil? Should i add more? Should I have added less? I also added 25% Perlite and 25% Vermiculite.

Thank you,

SecretAsainMan

EDIT: Scroll down to the letter H, and click the Hydrated Lime2. Thats the stuff I used.

Hey SAM,

your mix sounds like an excellent starter mix and no you did not ruin your soil, we usually use dolomite because it offers Mg and is slightly lower release than what you added but 1 cup should not have ruined your soil at all.
You might need to supplement with Magnesium of some sort for lack of a solid source in your mix but a tea can fix that

Emmy

Guano is higher release then alfalfa meal, it is superior for fixing a deficienty as it breaks down quickly so is quickly availble, they both have they're plave and I will be tryng alfalfa meal on my 2 current projects.
Guanos also offer a particular taste that is appreciated by organic growers, some swear that a guano only grow has a better odour and taste, I'm not convinced but I've yet to try a guano only grow, I ike an ammended mix too much :.

Suby

 

[Guest]

Thank you for the reply Suby. For the Mag I like to Foliar feed in veg with epsom salt.

Being the first time I ammend my soil with lime, I knew dolomite is the stuff i needed, I just couldn't find it. I figured the Hydrated stuff will suffice. And it may, I feel more comfortable with it now, and from what i understand the hydratred lime, is stronger, and works faster. I added 1 1/2 cups to the mix.

In the future I will scrap the Hydrated lime, and the epsom salt foliar feed, and get some dolomite lime.

SAM

 

[the protege]

Would oyster shell lime be an alternative to dolomite lime? Also, could it be mixed in the same proportions?

I am having a tough time finding dolomite lime on planetnatural.com

 

[BagseedSamurai]

well shoot. The mix I did last grow was:

Soilless Organic!
Equal parts perlite/Vermiculite
1 tspoon per gallon worm castings

Ferts:
5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
Organic Tea:
Guano, Castings, meal

Suit to taste

 

[BagseedSamurai]

Would oyster shell lime be an alternative to dolomite lime? Also, could it be mixed in the same proportions?

I am having a tough time finding dolomite lime on planetnatural.com

Try Lowes.

 

[Suby]

Yeah it really depends on your area, it took me awhile to find the powdered type.
I think oyster shell lime would be fine, it's essentially calcium carbonate which is a great source of buffering and calcium but not magnesium like dolomite.

For Calcium & pH Adjustment High quality ag/lime soil conditioner which provides immediate and long term release of nutrients that control pH levels. Promotes healthy root growth, and improves soil compaction. Natural, organic source of calcium is used to correct Ca deficiencies and raise pH in acidic soils. Contains 96% calcium carbonate plus a natural balance of 10 other nutrients and micronutrients. Variable particle size provides both immediate and long-term fertilization. Use at 4-5 lb/20 row feet for flowers and vegetables or 1 lb/tree, 2-10 lb/100 sq ft or 500-4,000 lb/acre, depending on soil analysis and crop. Repeated applications may be needed to fully adjust pH and Ca levels. In acidic soils, add 1-3 lb/hole when planting trees.

Maybe 1TBS per gallon of soil mix would probably be fine.

Suby

 

[the protege]

I'm slow!! I had already ordered the sunleaves soil sweetener a long time ago and had it sitting around 5 lbs!!! (the soil sweetener is dolomite lime!)

I ordered some other stuff as well ....

 

[Pactivist]

sign me up - I have been growing 100% organically for about 6 yrs. I use guano's worm castings, maxicrop, and for liquid ferts I use either EJ or metanaturals. I use only Olivia's gel and water for my clones, mainly because Olivia's has 0% IBA, or NAA, and i assume that it is the closest to an organic gel that i can get.
recently built a compost bin which will take a while to fill but it's in work.
i will be watching this thread closely
peAce,
pacT

 

[Suby]

hey Pac

I hear great things about the Maxicrop, it seems to one of those can't miss bottled ferts.
I'm trying to phase out Liquid Karma but the liquid seaweed is not cutting it anymore, I need something with a good potassium boost.
As for that compost bin try and get alot of fruit peels except citrus in there, it will make a strong P compost for flowering.

Protege

I received your PM this morning, I wan't to give you a serious answer so I'll do it tonite while I'm toking a spliff and have more time

Peace all

TY for making this the thread with the most views in the Oraganic Soil forum.
I smell a sticky..or maybe that was me... I had tacos last night lol.

Suby

 

[the protege]

Definately waiting for your input suby! I am ready to get my soil ready!

 

[emmy75]

i thought id put up some pics of the mj at 6weeks old. ill probably veg for another 2 weeks at least with these two. watcha think?
























as you can see theyre healthy and theyve got one more transplant to go. i hit them with a tea yesterday. my tea was alfalfa meal, lk, ewc, molasses, and neptunes seaweed. i meant to hit them with a guano tea but got kinda lazy so i went with the alfalfa with only 48 bubble time.