Terpz, what is your application rate with the Azatrol? I take it you have come to have success with this method? You would definitely be at a greater risk bringing in outside soil to your garden. Your post gives me hope! I found Qt of Azatrol on amazon for $78. 32oz mixes to how many gal? I already use DE I swear by that stuff, magic IMO. I'm still in veg so plan on dusting them again with DE. Thanks for your post.
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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
Terpz
Member
I use Azatrol at 2ml/gal with seedlings/clones and slowly up the dosage through veg to 3ml/gal. Again, I root drench Azatrol and DE 1/4 tsp/gal with every watering through veg (which for me is ~ 4-6weeks depending). Anytime new soil is brought in, it is treated, along with GoGnats 5ml/gal. A fan blowing under the bottoms of plants will disturb the topsoil, bugs hate that. As well, let containers dry almost completely before watering again i.e. Overwatering, bugs love that. Dusting DE can become quite messy and very inaccurate, I suggest making a foliar with something like SM90.. complete coverage.
On the topic of Azadirachtin or DE killing off beneficial microbes.. I've have spoken with techs from Plant Revolution and Extreme Gardening asking if it would harm the living microbes.. both companies said applying Azadirachtin or DE as a root drench would not be of harm. In fact I have heard multiple times that DE and living microbes actually go crazy together(like the good crazy).
If shit hits the fan, look into Bacillus Thuringiensis and Nematodes. Good luck!
Thanks again Terpz, I will add that to my arsenal. This past 6 months has been a crash course on pest control. My last strain Sno Cap must have been pretty resistant to all this as I ran that for many many years and no bugs or molds.
I took notes on everything you said. Sounds like a better preventive treatment.
Not sure if nemetodes will survive in soil after everything I've done to it. Go Gnats, frass, DE, soon will try Riptide/ Orthene dunk (already ordered, may as well try it.)
I took notes on everything you said. Sounds like a better preventive treatment.
Not sure if nemetodes will survive in soil after everything I've done to it. Go Gnats, frass, DE, soon will try Riptide/ Orthene dunk (already ordered, may as well try it.)
Fyi on Orthene, I found it on ebay for 17.95 .773lb can ordered on the 19th had it in hand 21st. Unbelievably fast shipping! Seller: Allpestcontrol Wish I would have ordered Riptide from same seller as I ordered both same day and other seller has just now shipped as of 11/21. I'm not spamming here, if you need a solution like I need one then your gonna want to get it as fast as possible.
Weezard posted on using dryer sheets on top of containers. It does help, but my fans keep blowing them off. Solution was to pin them to soil with toothpicks. I could see the young ones crawling out of my pots and going across the dryer sheets. I decided to take sheets off pots and spray them with Ortho Home Deffense. I put the sheets back on the pots and now the ones that I see on top are dead. I also sprayed that on the outside of pots and as an area treatment.
I have used the Go gnats at 1/2 fl oz to 5 gal water with a couple drops of dish soap and drenched my pots. I found the 2-3 drops of dish soap helped to wet the soil instead of the solution just running out. Pots treated with dish soap in the solution were 1/3 heavier than those that were not. Now all are treated that way. I just did 2nd application 6 days apart and now not seeing any crawlers moving. Saw two fliers though. Go gnats really knocked them back but I would recommend more than just that for RAs. I have seen literally thousands of dead RAs Tables look like I dumped a pepper shaker in them.
Only other thing I've done so far is top dress with insect frass and water in, also top dressed with DE and watered in. Early on I flocked plants with DE then rinsed off next day. That got a bunch of the fliers before I picked up yellow sticky traps.
Once soil dries out I will do the Orthene/Riptide dunk. Saving up to get Azatrol and SM90 recommended by Terpz.
Good luck to you.
Weezard posted on using dryer sheets on top of containers. It does help, but my fans keep blowing them off. Solution was to pin them to soil with toothpicks. I could see the young ones crawling out of my pots and going across the dryer sheets. I decided to take sheets off pots and spray them with Ortho Home Deffense. I put the sheets back on the pots and now the ones that I see on top are dead. I also sprayed that on the outside of pots and as an area treatment.
I have used the Go gnats at 1/2 fl oz to 5 gal water with a couple drops of dish soap and drenched my pots. I found the 2-3 drops of dish soap helped to wet the soil instead of the solution just running out. Pots treated with dish soap in the solution were 1/3 heavier than those that were not. Now all are treated that way. I just did 2nd application 6 days apart and now not seeing any crawlers moving. Saw two fliers though. Go gnats really knocked them back but I would recommend more than just that for RAs. I have seen literally thousands of dead RAs Tables look like I dumped a pepper shaker in them.
Only other thing I've done so far is top dress with insect frass and water in, also top dressed with DE and watered in. Early on I flocked plants with DE then rinsed off next day. That got a bunch of the fliers before I picked up yellow sticky traps.
Once soil dries out I will do the Orthene/Riptide dunk. Saving up to get Azatrol and SM90 recommended by Terpz.
Good luck to you.
Orthene/Riptide dunk update: I did this last night, messy make sure to have a mop on hand. Mix rates were as recommended by Eclipsefour20 another member here, Orthene 2.3g/gal and Riptide 2.5ml/gal. I used cold well water. I checked ph and this mix did not change my water, yours may differ. Wear gloves!!! Orthene is the nastiest smell I have ever experienced, goes away once mixed in water.
I used an 18 gal tote and set the hard potted plant in 10 gal of solution. Plant wanted to float and tip over. I watered from top with a dip bucket and this stabilized. I tried to keep level to within 2" of top of pot, watering with dip bucket/ kitchen strainer repeatedly over the 20 min dunk. I also made sure to tilt pot and rotate to get under lip of pot. I placed an empty 1 gal pot upside down in a 5 gal bucket and set treated pot on top of that to drain. That which drained out got tossed. I kept mixing new to add to 18 gal tub.
I had also noticed my plants had spider mites on one plant in corner of room. I mixed pure neem oil rate 1oz/gal in foiler sprayer. I sprayed all plants as they sat in 18gal tub so there was neem leaking into solution and being watered in with the Orthene/Riptide combo. Also of note I spray the outsides of my pots with Ortho Home Defense (this was days ago). I imagine this was in the solution as well. This was all done Lights off, just a fluorescent light on. I didn't notice crawlers trying to ascend stem to escape, hopefully neem got them.
This was done after treating two times over one week with Go Gnats, insect frass. I saw the Go Gnats knock them back a bit but leaves were still drooping and looked near death. I was seeing new crawlers/fliers daily. No bull I must have seen over 100,000 bugs come out of these pots and die on the Ortho HD sprayed tables prior to treating with Orthene/Riptide. I would think that is a fairly heavy infestation for 16 plants.
Early results, Amazing!!!! Leaves praying to the sky and color is back!!! They look very happy and have a chance now. I plan to do a follow up 2nd application, have to see whether to do that in 5 days or two weeks. I will post whether I get any kind of burn or adverse reaction to treatment. Thanks to all who have helped me with this. I almost tossed them yesterday. The only reason I treated them was I didn't want an untreated root ball any where on my farm outside to breed more of these bastards.
Final note, I am still in veg ready to flip. Huge thank you to Eclipse four20 post #2883 this thread.
I used an 18 gal tote and set the hard potted plant in 10 gal of solution. Plant wanted to float and tip over. I watered from top with a dip bucket and this stabilized. I tried to keep level to within 2" of top of pot, watering with dip bucket/ kitchen strainer repeatedly over the 20 min dunk. I also made sure to tilt pot and rotate to get under lip of pot. I placed an empty 1 gal pot upside down in a 5 gal bucket and set treated pot on top of that to drain. That which drained out got tossed. I kept mixing new to add to 18 gal tub.
I had also noticed my plants had spider mites on one plant in corner of room. I mixed pure neem oil rate 1oz/gal in foiler sprayer. I sprayed all plants as they sat in 18gal tub so there was neem leaking into solution and being watered in with the Orthene/Riptide combo. Also of note I spray the outsides of my pots with Ortho Home Defense (this was days ago). I imagine this was in the solution as well. This was all done Lights off, just a fluorescent light on. I didn't notice crawlers trying to ascend stem to escape, hopefully neem got them.
This was done after treating two times over one week with Go Gnats, insect frass. I saw the Go Gnats knock them back a bit but leaves were still drooping and looked near death. I was seeing new crawlers/fliers daily. No bull I must have seen over 100,000 bugs come out of these pots and die on the Ortho HD sprayed tables prior to treating with Orthene/Riptide. I would think that is a fairly heavy infestation for 16 plants.
Early results, Amazing!!!! Leaves praying to the sky and color is back!!! They look very happy and have a chance now. I plan to do a follow up 2nd application, have to see whether to do that in 5 days or two weeks. I will post whether I get any kind of burn or adverse reaction to treatment. Thanks to all who have helped me with this. I almost tossed them yesterday. The only reason I treated them was I didn't want an untreated root ball any where on my farm outside to breed more of these bastards.
Final note, I am still in veg ready to flip. Huge thank you to Eclipse four20 post #2883 this thread.
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Caution serious if considering using Orthene don't!!! That's some extremely bad s''t. Read label carefully if you use it deck out in PPE like Breaking Bad. Not at all meant for indoor use. Search the terms used on the label as you need to be a doctor to understand what they are saying. I may be f''d for real.http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/TIB/cholinesterase.html
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...care to elaborate? I used the combo once with no PPE....
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Id recommend flushing those plants, n backing off the lights for a few days. otherwise they seem to burn pretty easy. the plants I treated this way n watered every other day, burnt like crazy, while the plants I treated that were set up on a dripper system, getting watered 4 times a day didn't burn that much at all.
I wore gloves, short ones. Had it splashing on my arms two nights in a row. I was also drinking coffee without washing hands, ate a couple donuts too with it on hands. Kept getting under gloves. Can't believe that I failed to respect it. This morning after finishing and taking a shower I started twitching, heart rate was real slow could barley find pulse (faint) pinpoint pupils. I was having hard time typing. Turns out that this stuff will continue to absorb well past the point that you wash it off your skin. It is also one of the most toxic pesticide types out there. Organophosphates take weeks to clear out of your system. With skin absorption once symptoms start can go from mild to critical very quickly. I think that I'm out of the woods on it but I was scared enough to take a sharpy and write down what I was messing with on my arm. Just a nice head ache now. Twitching really freaked me out. Next time I will be wearing proper gear. At the very least long chemical gloves rather than nitrile gloves for trimming.
Not at all trying to be all drama about it. Usually I figure that warnings are just put there due to lawyers. Sure it was eating, drinking coffee and smoking that got me here. I remember it slightly numbing my lips, probably from cig.
Not at all trying to be all drama about it. Usually I figure that warnings are just put there due to lawyers. Sure it was eating, drinking coffee and smoking that got me here. I remember it slightly numbing my lips, probably from cig.
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Thanks for the tip on that one, will flush tonight, and raise lights. Hate to go through all that and have them burn. They look nicer now than they have in weeks. Lower leaves were just hanging limp no matter what I did, now even they are pointing straight out.
StankyBeamer
Professional A$$hole
A few hundred pages back it was posted that mixing the riptide orthene combo with full strength feed stops or reduces the burning
i wonder why some things work for me n not for others? must be bugs more adapted in different areas?
I mixed insect frass, crab meal, and neem meal into my soil, then ogbiowar teas twice in a week, then once a week on, and some no pest strips hanging. Havent seen any for about 6 months.
I mixed insect frass, crab meal, and neem meal into my soil, then ogbiowar teas twice in a week, then once a week on, and some no pest strips hanging. Havent seen any for about 6 months.
T
thesloppy
Yeah, it does seem like there are unique colonies of the same bugs with different resistances throughout the world. I think lots and lots of folks are also confused about what bugs they have (or are unaware they are infested with multiple species). Speaking from personal experience....I spent like 6 months slowly and futilely fighting fungus gnats before I finally figured out I had root aphids, after which treatment was much more effective.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
That's when I did my treatments. I posted results early that were positive, n then a few days later I posted the burn results.
I used food anyway cause im in coir n u don't flush out the cec in coir, otherwise it will mess up ur plants.
I think there was a revelation of getting runoff after the treatment. I believe that's what helped most with reducing burn. just my experience with it. take it as u will.
Happy Turkey day, my bug fighting cannabi brothers!
seven7seven
New member
So i found i had root aphids, i used azamax drench on the roots 5ml per gallon, alot came to the serface so i took my tourch and went to town and drasticly reduced the numbers, after this i waited flushed and re applied a little more azamax, keep in mind i discovered the aphids in the 2nd week ... so after the second root drench i let about 1500 ladybugs go upstairs where they are still living today(im now in the 6th week)
The fact they are still living is i guess proof that the aphids are still there, at first i found them in all plant soil now on 6 weeks only two are showing what appears to be nitrogen deficancy, the other 6 are looking good with no signs, i cant get any aphids to serface on thoes 6 anymore eather...
In my conclusion ... azamax is not a great way to get rid of these basterds, i think my tourching them when i got alot to serface did the beat job, and the lady bugs must be doing work sincethey are still alive, next time around i am running neamotodes in all my soil in veg and have switched to smart pots with a layer of sand on the top to avoid any flyers being able to get into tge soil/roots .... i was able to manage all my plants and fight the problem but im not saticfied ....
Good luck and dont give up, these things blow and they stick around i will let you guys know if i was able to manage keepi.g these things out of my veg room using the neamatodes, smart pots, ladybugs and sand ... plus a lot of sticky traps (i have only caught 2 in the last like 3 weeks, but i know these buttholes can stay in different stages indefinetly so the fact there isnt many flyers is not comforting ) this about all of the info i really have on these things
I would also like to add in that how i identified that i had root aphis was due to some fan leaves that started to twist wierd, no issues plant looked healty and big and awsome but there was a few leaves that were starting to twist sort of funny, later in flowr i believe you can tell if you have them by yellowing of the leaves really early, eventualy browning and shrivli.g off and dieing .. in my experiqnce neway ...
The fact they are still living is i guess proof that the aphids are still there, at first i found them in all plant soil now on 6 weeks only two are showing what appears to be nitrogen deficancy, the other 6 are looking good with no signs, i cant get any aphids to serface on thoes 6 anymore eather...
In my conclusion ... azamax is not a great way to get rid of these basterds, i think my tourching them when i got alot to serface did the beat job, and the lady bugs must be doing work sincethey are still alive, next time around i am running neamotodes in all my soil in veg and have switched to smart pots with a layer of sand on the top to avoid any flyers being able to get into tge soil/roots .... i was able to manage all my plants and fight the problem but im not saticfied ....
Good luck and dont give up, these things blow and they stick around i will let you guys know if i was able to manage keepi.g these things out of my veg room using the neamatodes, smart pots, ladybugs and sand ... plus a lot of sticky traps (i have only caught 2 in the last like 3 weeks, but i know these buttholes can stay in different stages indefinetly so the fact there isnt many flyers is not comforting ) this about all of the info i really have on these things
I would also like to add in that how i identified that i had root aphis was due to some fan leaves that started to twist wierd, no issues plant looked healty and big and awsome but there was a few leaves that were starting to twist sort of funny, later in flowr i believe you can tell if you have them by yellowing of the leaves really early, eventualy browning and shrivli.g off and dieing .. in my experiqnce neway ...
Update, still have the lights up high no burn knock on wood. Will flush again today, no crawlers or fliers. Lush new growth and vigor, leaves are straight and plants be stinking. Just turned them down. Plan on hitting again with the Orthene/ Riptide combo dunk in a week. It turns out I just had the flu by the way, whole family got it so I didn't poison myself.
Terpz
Member
Praise Jah'
Yes absolutely use the right gear. I must say the plants have really responded to this treatment, color is back. New leaves are not twisted. I swear they are thanking me. Does anyone know how often this can safely be applied? Meaning if I see this show up 3-4 weeks into flower can it be reapplied? Is it something that I can do as a preventative every 2-3 weeks from clone to harvest? As I understand it Orthene is a systemic if applied as a foiler spray but not as a root drench. Not sure how they can say that but that is the information I was able to find. I would also love to know an alternative to having open holes for drainage on the bottoms of my pots. I will be moving to smart pots on the next set. It was so frustrating seeing the fliers going in through the bottoms of the pots.
Going to start baking my soil as well. I have a wood stove in an insulated shed outside my house. I pump the hot air into house for heat in Winter. Temps hit close to 190F in shed and 75F in house. I put my green wood inside to season it almost like a kiln. I want to start putting my soil in there as well when I bring it home. I know it will kill bennies and that is unfortunate but can't I reintroduce them once potted? I have always used FFOF, just having some trust issues with bagged soil now. Doesn't it seem that there are more bugs affecting grows now than in the past? I am done getting clones from others too. Looking at seed banks, never ordered before.
Going to start baking my soil as well. I have a wood stove in an insulated shed outside my house. I pump the hot air into house for heat in Winter. Temps hit close to 190F in shed and 75F in house. I put my green wood inside to season it almost like a kiln. I want to start putting my soil in there as well when I bring it home. I know it will kill bennies and that is unfortunate but can't I reintroduce them once potted? I have always used FFOF, just having some trust issues with bagged soil now. Doesn't it seem that there are more bugs affecting grows now than in the past? I am done getting clones from others too. Looking at seed banks, never ordered before.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Welcome to the club my man. Ur going thru all the same thought processes that we all have. Let me start with safety. ALWAYS read all safety info n use appropriate ppe. go the extra mile. know ur chems rei, n phi, etc... have a treatment strategy that doesn't ever get u contaminated. For example, during a spray I plan on turning off fans, so not to blow the spray on me, n starting with the back of the room and working toward the door, so not to brush up against sprayed stuff. the big safety thing on orthene is not getting it on ur skin. but I always re read any safety material associated with said treatment n form a plan so not to poison myself, any other person, animal, or the earth. that's really what its all about. if it endangers us, its not worth it.
Ive talked with eclipse about using orthene combo like ur thinking. and I agree with eclipse that it should only be used sparingly because of its dangers n stress to the plants. go with preventive measures after an extremely thorough orthene treatment, where u have also sanitized the room, equip, got rid of old medium, foliage, etc... then ur plan of not taking in cuts, n pretreating soil n things are the right direction to avoid recontamination.
