RedBeardy5
Active member
If your not in flower it should be safe to foliar, as it looks like the half life is rather short.
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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
orthene/pyrethrin dunk update
orthene/pyrethrin dunk update
12 days or so after the dunk n no soil critters can be found. there might be a few fliers left, but I need to replace the yellow sticky traps so I can identify the amount of fliers being trapped now.
I did get a significant outer edge leaf burn, that I usually relate to high ec, or ph prob. I checked the run off and ph looked pretty good, but ec was more than double input ec. So I flushed with .5ec till I got down to 1 to 1.2ec coming out. some of my weakest clones didn't get any burn. my thought is with such a small amount of medium, they got flushed much better than my bigger plants with a lot more medium.
I also estimated my dry weight of orthene used, to be about 2.5g per tsp. So that's what I used per gallon. Next time I might try 1/2 tsp per gallon instead.
I wouldn't be afraid to do the dunk again, just next time I will flush the medium the next day after treatment.
I would also measure the ec n ph of the mixed dunk to see what my starting input numbers are.
orthene/pyrethrin dunk update
12 days or so after the dunk n no soil critters can be found. there might be a few fliers left, but I need to replace the yellow sticky traps so I can identify the amount of fliers being trapped now.
I did get a significant outer edge leaf burn, that I usually relate to high ec, or ph prob. I checked the run off and ph looked pretty good, but ec was more than double input ec. So I flushed with .5ec till I got down to 1 to 1.2ec coming out. some of my weakest clones didn't get any burn. my thought is with such a small amount of medium, they got flushed much better than my bigger plants with a lot more medium.
I also estimated my dry weight of orthene used, to be about 2.5g per tsp. So that's what I used per gallon. Next time I might try 1/2 tsp per gallon instead.
I wouldn't be afraid to do the dunk again, just next time I will flush the medium the next day after treatment.
I would also measure the ec n ph of the mixed dunk to see what my starting input numbers are.
Why isn't anyone using Kontos for RA? 2 X soil drenched a week apart and they're gone for good ... Systemic is the best way to go fighting anything ... contact killing isnt nearly as effective
I love Kontos and gotta thank SS for spreading knowledge of it to me. Great shit, one and done on my recent indoor / coco grow.
@granger2 Kontos has another formulation that's more dilute they use for food crops. 'Its a chemical so its bad' is some head in the sand shit. Plants treated with Kontos in veg are fully safe to smoke, look into Kontos.. I can't remember the exact figure off the top of my head but Kontos has nowhere near the ridiculous half life that Imidicloprid does.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
what was ur dosage for kontos? they say its used for vegetable transplants. I suppose at the early stages, it might be a good eradication tool to utilize that has a different moa.
Oceangrownkush,
I've never said "It's a chemical so it's bad. Hmmm...come to think of it. I got into the landscaping business in 1975. The only insecticide that was on the market then and still is now is Malathion. Everything else has been pulled.
I've seen the pattern over and over. The mfgr says it's safe. The EPA or DA takes their word for it, and lets them market it. At some point a finger gets pointed at it for harm of different kinds. Then they restrict it's use. First, it's birds, then other things incl humans. Then they pull it from the market, but they have to fight the mfgr and their huge legal division for 5-7 years. Then it's pulled, but store owners can sell what's on their shelves. Then it's replaced by the next safe insecticide.
Over and over. Remember DDT? It was safe. Chloridane was safe, Heptichlor was safe, Diazinon was safe, Dursban was safe, Sevin was safe, Kelthane was safe, and many many more.
I will say that the Pyrethins are safer to mammals than some of the previous ones, but pardon me if I'm suspicious. Now they've allowed the Neonicotinoids like Imid. Europe doesn't allow them. We gave them provisional approval contingent upon more testing. If they've done more testing they haven't gotten back to the regulators, but since we have a system where those being regulated are regulated by Boards sprinkled with former and future employees of those being regulated, we now have food crops being treated with systemic insecticides. Can't wash them off. They're in every bite - or puff.
Whose head's in the sand? Kontos may be safer than imid, but that's not saying much. I certainly recommend using chems with the shortest half life, but remember that means that half of the chem is gone at the half life point. The rest is still there. Don't tell me it's safe because you'll likely be proved wrong down the line. Good luck. -granger
I've never said "It's a chemical so it's bad. Hmmm...come to think of it. I got into the landscaping business in 1975. The only insecticide that was on the market then and still is now is Malathion. Everything else has been pulled.
I've seen the pattern over and over. The mfgr says it's safe. The EPA or DA takes their word for it, and lets them market it. At some point a finger gets pointed at it for harm of different kinds. Then they restrict it's use. First, it's birds, then other things incl humans. Then they pull it from the market, but they have to fight the mfgr and their huge legal division for 5-7 years. Then it's pulled, but store owners can sell what's on their shelves. Then it's replaced by the next safe insecticide.
Over and over. Remember DDT? It was safe. Chloridane was safe, Heptichlor was safe, Diazinon was safe, Dursban was safe, Sevin was safe, Kelthane was safe, and many many more.
I will say that the Pyrethins are safer to mammals than some of the previous ones, but pardon me if I'm suspicious. Now they've allowed the Neonicotinoids like Imid. Europe doesn't allow them. We gave them provisional approval contingent upon more testing. If they've done more testing they haven't gotten back to the regulators, but since we have a system where those being regulated are regulated by Boards sprinkled with former and future employees of those being regulated, we now have food crops being treated with systemic insecticides. Can't wash them off. They're in every bite - or puff.
Whose head's in the sand? Kontos may be safer than imid, but that's not saying much. I certainly recommend using chems with the shortest half life, but remember that means that half of the chem is gone at the half life point. The rest is still there. Don't tell me it's safe because you'll likely be proved wrong down the line. Good luck. -granger
ok guys,
here is my update on using biowar foliar pack only in coco.
i had 7 plants from seed, all 7 are now healthy looking in the last third of flowering.
plants show no signs of root aphid damage.
i use biowar every watering. from day 1. one tablespoon per 20L(cca 5gal) carefully diluted in ready to go pH water with nutes. i use 1L measuring cup to dilute it in it.
make sure to get all the clumps diluted. make sure the water is chlorine and chloramine free.
every other watering i dilute 2,3 tablespoons of molasses to give fungus and bacteria some food.
never let coco dry out, always keep it moist.
using root stimulators and enzymes is optional.
i see little flyes in the room and few of them dead in grow box, but plants are looking crispy and green, no bogus deficiency or deformed growth.
downside of this is using a lot of biowar foliar, and its not that cheap.
but if its without chemicals im in.
take care.
here is my update on using biowar foliar pack only in coco.
i had 7 plants from seed, all 7 are now healthy looking in the last third of flowering.
plants show no signs of root aphid damage.
i use biowar every watering. from day 1. one tablespoon per 20L(cca 5gal) carefully diluted in ready to go pH water with nutes. i use 1L measuring cup to dilute it in it.
make sure to get all the clumps diluted. make sure the water is chlorine and chloramine free.
every other watering i dilute 2,3 tablespoons of molasses to give fungus and bacteria some food.
never let coco dry out, always keep it moist.
using root stimulators and enzymes is optional.
i see little flyes in the room and few of them dead in grow box, but plants are looking crispy and green, no bogus deficiency or deformed growth.
downside of this is using a lot of biowar foliar, and its not that cheap.
but if its without chemicals im in.
take care.
Oh man I had a scare last night. I use tupur for a medium, and have been attempting to keep the root mass moist at all times on this run. So I'm watering yesterday, and notice a couple bugs fly out of one of my pots. Then I look over at the next pot when watering and see all these little white crawly bugs in the medium when I got done watering.
I start hyperventilating for a couple seconds, until I remembered that I bought a couple shakers of cucumeris mites last week and dumped them in the soil because I decided the buds where too far along. I did this last run and the carrier that the mites come on got stuck to all the buds, and was a real pain in the ass to get off..
So I spend a few minutes trying to catch one of the fliers kinda intact, and when I inspect it under my scope I'm relieved to see its a fungus gnat. I them spend about 20 minutes trying to scoop up one of the mites so I can scope it, just to make sure. Damn those things are tough to kill in your hand without smashing it beyond recognition. Finally did it, it looked like a cucumeris mite, and no tail pipes. I just though they would have moved up the plant to the foliage, but they seem to like the soil just fine.
Kinda pointless story, but made for an exciting half hour or so...
I start hyperventilating for a couple seconds, until I remembered that I bought a couple shakers of cucumeris mites last week and dumped them in the soil because I decided the buds where too far along. I did this last run and the carrier that the mites come on got stuck to all the buds, and was a real pain in the ass to get off..
So I spend a few minutes trying to catch one of the fliers kinda intact, and when I inspect it under my scope I'm relieved to see its a fungus gnat. I them spend about 20 minutes trying to scoop up one of the mites so I can scope it, just to make sure. Damn those things are tough to kill in your hand without smashing it beyond recognition. Finally did it, it looked like a cucumeris mite, and no tail pipes. I just though they would have moved up the plant to the foliage, but they seem to like the soil just fine.
Kinda pointless story, but made for an exciting half hour or so...
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Imid has a long half life so u know. But when I used the .72% I used 30ml per gallon with success. I also watered with spectracide triazicide at 45ml per gallon for contact kill, at the same time as the bayer. U can mix them both in the same container without any probs to the plants.
So if I were using ur .25% id use 80 to 90ml per gallon. But be careful with the dosage if ur bayer comes with food in it.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Don't sleep on the fg, left to overpopulate the larvae can cause enough damage to the root zone to make it easier for pythium, n the other nasty root diseases to set in.
Oh I'm gonna get em.. Is go gnats or a similar bti product safe to use in flower? I'm done with week 5 on Sunday, and everything so far looks amazing as far as my grows go (knock on wood)... But I would prefer to treat in some fashion just to prevent the problem from getting worse for future rounds.
After keeping my RA's at bay with imid, I think I have finally eradicated them fully. I took clones and dunked them in imid water and put them in a plastic bag for rooting offsite and said goodbye to the mothers.
In the infected room, I turned off AC/exhaust and turned 6 1kw lights on to super lumen for doses of 12 hours -- temps reaching over 140*F. After the first 12 hours session, it looked like the RAs were all toast, I had tonssss of flyers and I didn't see any. I put a fly-strip up with the only light on in the room near it and after a few days I had one flyer.
So I treated the room for several days with 140*F -- it was so hot it melted my osc fans, seems like everything else did *ok* but the room did 'sweat' from condensation. After a week of heat treatments, there are no new flyers on the strips. I just did my second potato test and there are no aphids on the potato slices either.
Did I win?
In the infected room, I turned off AC/exhaust and turned 6 1kw lights on to super lumen for doses of 12 hours -- temps reaching over 140*F. After the first 12 hours session, it looked like the RAs were all toast, I had tonssss of flyers and I didn't see any. I put a fly-strip up with the only light on in the room near it and after a few days I had one flyer.
So I treated the room for several days with 140*F -- it was so hot it melted my osc fans, seems like everything else did *ok* but the room did 'sweat' from condensation. After a week of heat treatments, there are no new flyers on the strips. I just did my second potato test and there are no aphids on the potato slices either.
Did I win?
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
I know the bti is safe till the last day of flower, just be careful not to dust a bud with bti, its for the root zone only. Its just a natural biological that effects only its targeted pest.
And im pretty sure the go gnats is safe till the last day too. Its basically cedar oil as its active ingredient I think. Im not sure id use that at the end of flower for fear of being able to taste it, but I cant speak from experience on that, maybe someone else will comment on it. I know granger used the cedarcide, maybe he can chime in with some knowledge on the go gnats.
My population got to big with my recirculating coir system, and my coir constantly stays very wet. Its a perfect breeding ground for them. If I had stayed preventative maybe I wouldn't have had the troubles I have. But the dunks n bits weren't slowing down my population, so I went with pyrethrin sprays n gnatrol. I don't think ive killed them all but maybe 95 to 99%. I never see a flier anymore. So im just doing the maintenance dose of gnatrol once a week to keep them at bay.
Definitely throw up some fly strips n yellow sticky cards at the soil level. Ur bti's n stuff for the rootzone are meant for the larvae. So u need to help by trapping the adults so they cant keep having babies.
