Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[Granger2]

I have used Safer's Insecticide Soap on several occassions as a 30 minute soak. UConnAg's soil drench test for RA's showed Safer's to kill over 99% of RA's. This gave the best results compared to all other products tested. Also removes waxy secretion of RAs on roots.

My experience is that if you don't thoroughly flush roots with water immediately after soap soak, it will cause severe root damage, killing a fair percentage of plants. The more root damage they have pre-treatment from RAs, the worse they will be affected by soap.

If you flush till there is no more soapy water coming out, the root damage will be minimized. Ater flush you'l need to feed with transitional nutes with a good Root Stimulator and re-inoculate with EWC ACT or something like Great White. Don't be surprised if you lose 30 days before plants can take off again. Good luck. -granger

 

[GET MO]

i checked all the rest of my plants and only found them on one other plant, a grape ape thats kinda umhealthy n in strait coco. I think they are only going for the weaker plants. I ordered some mycotrol O. and finna hit um with the bayer once now and again in four days, then the mycotrol should be here in a week n ill hit um with that. also finna spray all around the outside of the shed.

edit:now theres a few mountain lions hangin around my shed, maybe i do this tomorrow...

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

I have used Safer's Insecticide Soap on several occassions as a 30 minute soak. UConnAg's soil drench test for RA's showed Safer's to kill over 99% of RA's. This gave the best results compared to all other products tested. Also removes waxy secretion of RAs on roots.

My experience is that if you don't thoroughly flush roots with water immediately after soap soak, it will cause severe root damage, killing a fair percentage of plants. The more root damage they have pre-treatment from RAs, the worse they will be affected by soap.

If you flush till there is no more soapy water coming out, the root damage will be minimized. Ater flush you'l need to feed with transitional nutes with a good Root Stimulator and re-inoculate with EWC ACT or something like Great White. Don't be surprised if you lose 30 days before plants can take off again. Good luck. -granger

Granger bro that 30 day recovery period is scary to me using the safer almost seems better to just start over


so if i use safer as a preventative your telling me that my plants are going to be fucked for 30 days ? or is this your exp. with battling root aphids with safer.


whats a good root drench preventative that does the least damage. I use sm-90 24/7 and once in a while will run some azamax through em.

Anyone else got anything that isnt so harsh on the ladies to throw in the rotation.

or

should i whip out some harshes to be safe (imid,spec., etc)




thanks fellas



AJAE

 

[Granger2]

DONAJTHEIII,
I've never used Safer's as a preventive. I'm not sure it works that way. Seems like you would still need to use it full strength [5 Tbl/gal], and you'd have root damage. Possibly, if the roots are healthy, they won't be set back, but I'd expect at least a week setback. You could try it at lower strength. Just guessing.

Seems like a good preventive would be EJ Go Gnats or Cedarcide PCO Choice. Use at low dilution rate. At high rates Cedarcide will damage roots. I'd use it at 1 tsp/gal for that, and use at about 2 Tbl/gal for an area spray. This will kill all stages on contact and cedar repels insects. For awhile after spraying room at high rate, bugs won't enter. Go Gnats is cedar oil with a surfactant. You can do the math to determine how much. Good luck. -granger

 

[the gnome]

I don't mean to sound negative bud I just don't want u to be heartbroken if you find some survivors, I thought I saved my grow, and Was crushed when I saw one single crawler some weeks later. Awareness is half the battle though

just a follow up to my RA probs
I guess the imid took em out, I haven't seen anything since i did the root dunk with the Imid.
I was lucky it was just a few and i caught them early.

 

[StankyBeamer]

Glad to hear that gnome, isn't it a blissful feeling to be done fighting the little bastards?

 

[the gnome]

1st time actually and I only saw 2-3 in the roots and maybe 1/2doz in the foliage so I was extremely lucky to have caught em when i did.
I also keep the loupe handy and use it getting ready to hit bloom.
I shudder to think what Id be dealing with now had i missed em.
Ive experienced broad mites and thought they were bad as it gets
but reading what it takes to get rid of RAs and the carnage these little spawn of satan do is no comparison

 

[sammyz2646]

Had to cut down EVERYTHING again. I had these RA's 2 years ago and beat them with Spec/TRI and a few other things.

This time around , these tactics didn't phase them

The lesson finally set in------Don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, take in clones or cuttings from ANYONE, EVER!!!

I then saved a few babies in clone trays and figured I would try and save these strains---I reluctantly proceeded to use Eclipse420's Riptide/Orthene mixture and it helped but DID NOT kill them all. After a 20 min root DUNK (underwater). Sure enough a flyer emerged every 3 days or so. I have yet to use any IMID-- I'm hoping that with these babies being so little, it won't linger throughout flower.

I'm actually thinking about trying mallet if I get desperate enough, just to save these strains---Anyone have luck with this stuff?
I'm running hydro in R/W and hand water a perpetual grow

I have isolated 2 clone trays in separate rooms and started a seedling tray in a 3rd. I have always run a STERILE root zone with amazing results, but it appears that with regards to RA's that I may need to rethink things.

I have tried everything under the sun in years past and am convinced that Sterile is NOT the way to go , based on its vulnerabilities and yummy roots oozing with nitrogen, etc

I planted 8 small clones in fabric pots in rock wool and am inoculating them with OG Biowar and Botaniguard. I have had almost no success in the past with these items---but am hoping that they might prevent or help protect me from a future outbreak. I am also trying to add some predator nematodes, but, everyone here knows that these are more preventative--- than actual outbreak relief tools.

Any tips or help with this issue would be appreciated.

I did have some success using neem cake as a top dressing in fabric pots, but NOT plastic pots, as the cake will cut off the oxygen in the plastic pots and eventually kill the plant. Plus it turns stinky, mucky and icky.

I have learned that there are different types , strengths, and resistances in these superbugs and what works for some, will not work for others

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

DONAJTHEIII,
I've never used Safer's as a preventive. I'm not sure it works that way. Seems like you would still need to use it full strength [5 Tbl/gal], and you'd have root damage. Possibly, if the roots are healthy, they won't be set back, but I'd expect at least a week setback. You could try it at lower strength. Just guessing.

Seems like a good preventive would be EJ Go Gnats or Cedarcide PCO Choice. Use at low dilution rate. At high rates Cedarcide will damage roots. I'd use it at 1 tsp/gal for that, and use at about 2 Tbl/gal for an area spray. This will kill all stages on contact and cedar repels insects. For awhile after spraying room at high rate, bugs won't enter. Go Gnats is cedar oil with a surfactant. You can do the math to determine how much. Good luck. -granger

ahhhh granger thank you

I wish i read this was just at the store today.


so GOGNATS isnt just for fungus gnats ? the cedar oil which you say is the ingredient it is composed of is effective for numerous root dwelling pests ? is cedar oil a broad spectrum preventative ?


so GOGNATS = good preventative for RA's ???


also is there a diff between using GOGNATS and CPO or are they basically the same thing ?


Will be getting some of this shhhhhit this week.


thanks again granger

 

[Granger2]

Almost the same thing except for % of Cedar Oil and they use a different surfactant. Check % of each and calculate how much GG to use for preventive, equivalent to 1 tsp/gal of Cedarcide PCO Choice. Yes, Cedar Oil is a broad spectrum repellent, and kills on contact incl eggs. I don't know what the minimum strength needs to be for killing on contact and eggs, but at low dilution rate it will repel. Use at high strength for area sprays-floor, walls, doors, and entire container incl bottoms. Good luck. -granger

 

[joe mac]

been awhile since i've been around here. I've tried the gognats and it definitely helped repel/kill some of the aphids and for flower it's one of the safer things to use. I also used a combination of sns 203 and 209 in flower with some success. Be careful how much of the oils you use as the roots DEFINITELY don't like oils.

if you are in veg Orthene worked best for me. I'm cautiously optimistic as I haven't seen any aphids in over a year

 

[Vintage1969]

I will say this, I agree that the first signs are small brown papery spots on the leaves, spreading to The edges of the leaves, this happens long before nitrogen deficiency symptoms, yellowing of leaves start to develop. Definitely is a good early warning sign to look for.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Of course seeing the little shits running circles on the container lips/edge is a rather telling....as they will always appear within a few minutes after watering. Not to mention their "tent revival meetings" that seem to occur daily when you peek inside the drain holes (a simple 30x magnifier will do). Scratch the soil surface and see what you see....again a simple 30x magnifier will work--those handheld microscopes are not "eclipse friendly" (I guess I drink too much coffee or something as I can never hold those "still"...lol).

 

[Miraculous Meds]

So let me get this straight. I throw some kontos, imid, triaz, spinosad, orthene, pyrethrin, in a bucket. Then simply grab the gas can soak the grow room and set on fire. Is that how u guys kill ra/fg?

Just kidding. not really.

So I been working on this fungus gnat breeding project. And id like to say its going really well...

actually I have a really big population of fg. Been doing mosquito bits, and dunks for a couple months with no relief. Noticed a ton of larvae when inspecting the root zone. Also noticed a tiny white critter that was too fast too catch and identify. Im pretty sure its RA or soil mite. The damage to my plants is overall leaf yellowing, with the tips dying and curling back. Also a ton of leaf that drys up and falls off. Sour d and its crosses are the most damaged.

My original thought after hours and hours of reading this thread and countless other sources was that the fg population brought in soil mites to eat the damage left behind, and the plants picked up root disease because of the fg damage.

Im to the point that I don't care if the tiny bug is a soil mite or not, im just gonna treat it like its definitely RA.

So ive used bayer imid in the past with good success. Actually all my record yields were directly after a thorough treatment of imid and triaz. So im not opposed to imid but understand its dangers and would only use it in early veg in coir with a couple month veg and couple month flower. But im leaning towards the orthene/pyreth treatment that eclipse champions.

Had a couple q's for u pros, friends, and fellow haters of the tiny soil bugs.

Is the orthene treatment safe in flower? And will it wipe out the fg larvae too, or should I go ahead and get the gnatrol bucket.

Also I was debating on going ahead and getting merit for early veg, orthene, mid veg early flower, and gnatrol thru flower. Then after a few rounds when no more bugs have been found, cut all the chems and just treat with some organic sprays and bennies.

Also thinking about the pyreth tr foggers/bombs? Anybody use these? Can I use the pyreth bomb in early flower? I would never spray anything with flower set, so my gut tells me not to use this with flower set for the same reasons.

 

[Granger2]

So let me get this straight. I throw some kontos, imid, triaz, spinosad, orthene, pyrethrin, in a bucket. Then simply grab the gas can soak the grow room and set on fire. Is that how u guys kill ra/fg?

That would work brilliantly, but I haven't tried it, so I can't speak from experience.

Just kidding. not really.

So I been working on this fungus gnat breeding project. And id like to say its going really well...
lol

actually I have a really big population of fg. Been doing mosquito bits, and dunks for a couple months with no relief. Noticed a ton of larvae when inspecting the root zone. Also noticed a tiny white critter that was too fast too catch and identify. Im pretty sure its RA or soil mite. The damage to my plants is overall leaf yellowing, with the tips dying and curling back. Also a ton of leaf that drys up and falls off. Sour d and its crosses are the most damaged.

My original thought after hours and hours of reading this thread and countless other sources was that the fg population brought in soil mites to eat the damage left behind, and the plants picked up root disease because of the fg damage.

Im to the point that I don't care if the tiny bug is a soil mite or not, im just gonna treat it like its definitely RA.

So ive used bayer imid in the past with good success. Actually all my record yields were directly after a thorough treatment of imid and triaz. So im not opposed to imid but understand its dangers and would only use it in early veg in coir with a couple month veg and couple month flower. But im leaning towards the orthene/pyreth treatment that eclipse champions.
Much better alternative-from a safety and from an effectiveness perspective.

Had a couple q's for u pros, friends, and fellow haters of the tiny soil bugs.

Is the orthene treatment safe in flower? And will it wipe out the fg larvae too, or should I go ahead and get the gnatrol bucket.

Also I was debating on going ahead and getting merit for early veg, orthene, mid veg early flower, and gnatrol thru flower. Then after a few rounds when no more bugs have been found, cut all the chems and just treat with some organic sprays and bennies.
Pretty good strategy, but the Eclipsethene regime will probably fix you up without the Merit.

Also thinking about the pyreth tr foggers/bombs? Anybody use these? Can I use the pyreth bomb in early flower? I would never spray anything with flower set, so my gut tells me not to use this with flower set for the same reasons.

I'd do an area spray instead, unless you have a room large enough for the fogger not to be major overdose, like it would be in my room.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

thanks granger,

I was looking at the 3000 sq ft of coverage and thinking what that would do to my couple hundred sq ft space. lol

So im gonna go with orthene plus pyrethrin dunk as per the master eclipse has directed us to do for a couple hundred pages. Takes me a couple years to get it, but im getting there eclipse.

Also a side benefit is that a bottle of 6% pyreth and the orthene are less than a $100, or there abouts. the gnatrol is like $400 by itself.

Whats everybody doing once they eradicate the bugs? Id like a decent ipm plan with different mode of action remedies.

I guess a pyrethrin/orthene drench once or twice before flower wouldn't be a bad start to the ipm?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Does anybody have any knowledge or experience with beneficial nematodes for fg larvae and root aphid control? Im curious to know if they could keep them wiped out. Seems like someone has mentioned them in the past.

On a side note, im surprised this thread isn't a sticky. Its got a ton of great info, and is very helpful imo.

 

[StankyBeamer]

I think that the predators and nematodes wouldn't survive all the residual imid, that's why I avoided spending the money. I released 1500 ladybugs as a "just in case", and they're all dead

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I think that the predators and nematodes wouldn't survive all the residual imid, that's why I avoided spending the money. I released 1500 ladybugs as a "just in case", and they're all dead

Interesting, thanks for the heads up. Im going the route of orthene/pyrethrin dips. Then gnatrol as part of a regular ipm plan. Of course along with sticky traps and the occasional pyreth spray.

If I chose to use the nematodes I will make sure to wait a while or flush after dip treatment and eradication.

I wonder if the nematodes are only used if u have the bug, or if it can be used as a preventative?

 

[av8or]

I did the orthene/Riptide drench followed by green lacewings and I've not had a single issue for months. I'm confident the RAs are gone from my garden.