Effective Microorganisms, aka EM

[mad librettist]

I would just try sucking on it to see if it equalize both ways. That looks to me like the only airlock I've ever used (for beer). But what VP describes does not sound like that. He describes "shaped like a double "U".

 

[Trichgnomes]

Also, I should note, I did not notice any airlock activity on the previous brew. There was definitely CO2 being emitted, AFAICT. (< You like that one?-- As Far As I Could Tell), but no airlock activity. The airlock on this one became active almost immediately.

 

[Trichgnomes]

I would just try sucking on it to see if it equalize both ways. That looks to me like the only airlock I've ever used (for beer). But what VP describes does not sound like that. He describes "shaped like a double "U".

I'm sorry, which airlock are you referring to? The first pic is the one I am using, definitely looks like a double "U." The second one is one I pulled up off the net, but do own an identical one.

 

[mad librettist]

Ah yes, I see now. I had to click on the image. I've never seen one of those before. But I was only the assistant for beer making back in my dorm days. Someone gifted me the gear. good times...

 

[secondtry]

Hey Mad.L,

Howzit going today?

It's taken me a month or more to make AEM before... I use plastic soda bottles, and I don't always have a warm, bright place. They go wherever.

Yea it can take a while in sub-par conditions; however, I wonder what the microbial makeup is at that point (plate counts). God damn I have to get on microscopy...

VP recommends a 2 piece airlock that lets air in in the event of negative pressure, not a 3 piece. Which he states, btw, is caused by PNSB eating the CO2 in the later stages of fermentation.

OK, thanks for that. Tho I have doubt that is the cause of the negative pressure, would think it's more from a chemical reaction of some kind.

HTH

 

[Trichgnomes]

God damn I have to get on microscopy...

Tell me about it. At least you have a scope, lol.

 

[mad librettist]

Hey Mad.L,

Howzit going today?



Yea it can take a while in sub-par conditions; however, I wonder what the microbial makeup is at that point (plate counts). God damn I have to get on microscopy...




OK, thanks for that. Tho I have doubt that is the cause of the negative pressure, would think it's more from a chemical reaction of some kind.

HTH

I'm good today, but I went to bed with the pledge "I will stay off the forums tomorrow". lol.

I don't know about plate counts. I tend to think that just like brewing anything, more energy means same thing just faster. I suspect most agricultural and home users of EM brew in "sub-par" (actually par IMO) conditions. It's kind of the standard for the product (spoken as a consumer).

I'm thinking "of course it's a chemical reaction, every metabolic process is a chemical reaction".

 

[Clackamas Coot]

secondtry/Trichgnomes

Check out the product called Microbe Lift PL used in ponds and septic plants. They're in the process of porting this 'anaerobic fermented' product to the horticulture and agriculture industries.

Heh...................

CC

 

[mad librettist]

is it ok if i check it out too?

lol

 

[secondtry]

Hey there MM,

Vinny also describes a semi-aerobic continuous fermenter(?) I think his version of copying a pond

Do you mean a Winogradsky column?

(maybe I should get off my butt and contact Vinny about some of these Q's, or if you feel inclined you may get better/more complete answers than I)

[some links and pics below]

"Winogradsky Column"
Compiled by Sarah Bordenstein, Marine Biological Laboratory
http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/special_collections/winogradsky.html

"Habitat for Lab Specimens and other uses for Common Household Items"
http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag...roscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artaug02/gchabitat.html

"Results from the Winogradsky Column Study" [<< Using 2liter soda bottles]
SES: Microbial Methods In Ecology, 1999
http://ecosystems.mbl.edu/SES/MicrobialMethods/Winogradsky/default.htm

"Using A Winogradsky Column to Analyze Microbial Communities"
http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEPC/WWC/1991/microbial.php

"Investigating Bacteria with the Winogradsky Column"
The Woodrow Wilson Foundation
http://www.woodrow.org/teachers/bi/2000/Winogradsky_Column/winogradsky_column.html


Interactive Winogradsky Column:
http://www.sumanasinc.com/webcontent/animations/content/winogradsky.html

"The Winogradsky Column"
http://www.woodrow.org/teachers/esi/2002/Biology/Projects/p5/wc.htm

"The Winogradsky Column" (scroll half-way down page)
http://www.waksmanfoundation.org/labs/csuchico/labs1998.html

"Construction of a Winogradsky Column"
Center for Biofilm Engineering
http://www.biofilmsonline.com/cgi-bin/biofilmsonline/ed_contruction_winogradsky.html

"Winogradsky column: perpetual life in a tube"
The Univerity of Edinburgh
http://dwb4.unl.edu/Chem/CHEM869P/CHEM869PLinks/helios.bto.ed.ac.uk/bto/microbes/winograd.htm

"An Introduction to Inquiry and Field Work Using the Winogradsky Column"
Jared Fox. Frederick Douglass Academy III, Bronx
http://www.scienceteacherprogram.org/biology/JFox07.html


"Winogradsky Column"
BIO-2601 Microbiology
http://web.archive.org/web/20040612023029/http://www.ib.uit.no/~monae/photos/web/030920+The+Winogradsky+Column/photos.htm


(I'll upload pics soon, ICmag is doing maintenance or something.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have used a basic feed-batch method to keep a cultutre of PnSB going for weeks, the bloom donens't last long otherwise. This is how I plan to keep culture of PnSB, LAB, etc, for use when creating EM mother culture. AFAIK this is how SCD World does it too, but they use huge high-tech equipment...lucky bastards!

Thanks

 

[secondtry]

Hey there,

I'm thinking "of course it's a chemical reaction, every metabolic process is a chemical reaction".

RE: negative pressure:
I was referring to a chemical reaction independent from PnSB using Co2 as I don't see why that would cause such negative pressure which MM describes.

Edit: hey now that I'm looking, it appears S. cerevisiae are also capable of anaerobic fermentation.

OK, now I see why you were all about O2. Yea they are anaerobic fermenters, I thought you knew that, sorry. In Japan commercial AEM fermenters use Co2 to displace O2 in the headspace (I have also used this method) to keep the mix anaerobic and in the bottom is a stirring bar with heat source. The better ones even have lights inside the tank. There is some guy on the Yahoo CT list selling one for $5k a few weeks ago.

 

[secondtry]

secondtry/Trichgnomes

Check out the product called Microbe Lift PL used in ponds and septic plants. They're in the process of porting this 'anaerobic fermented' product to the horticulture and agriculture industries.

Heh...................

CC

Will do. Thanks.

 

[Trichgnomes]

You can totally make one of those in a 2 liter soda bottle. I am looking at a picture of one as I type, but it is in a Microbiology textbook. If anyone has it, it is page 27 of Microbiology: An Evolving Science by Joan L. Slonczewski and John W. Foster.
HTH

Edit: A bit of out of context a couple posts later, this was referring to the Winogradsky column, a "wetland model ecosystem designed by Sergei Winogradsky."

 

[secondtry]

PnSB


Here is my old thread about my 1st (clumsy but effective) attempt to isolate and culture PnSB:
(I will make a proper thread sometime)

"Culture Wild PnSB: 1st try!"
http://cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=4787


Some pics of PnSB blooms and plate streaks:

Please see the inch of mineral oil on top of the water in this pic. The container is on a heated stirrer plate (or maybe an agitation plate):

PnSB in full bloom:

Various colors of PnSB blooms:

Plate streak:

Plate streak 2:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Some infos:

1) "Enrichment & Isolation of Purple non-sulfur Bacteria"
http://www.mbio.ncsu.edu/MB451/lab/purple_nonsulfurs/purples.html



2) "Micro-biological research work of Jobst H. clamp (1990 to 2006)"
(original German page)
http://www.jobst-klemme.com/klemme/Forschung/forschung.htm

(translated from German with online tool so might be errors)
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translat...ung/forschung.htm&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=Translate


HTH

 

[secondtry]

Winogradsky Column Pics


My favorite so far:

I LOVE this 2 liter soda bottle, so tech how you can drain specific levels of the column, I am making some of these soon:

Explanations:

 

[Trichgnomes]

This is your old setup, second? Pretty badass to say the least.

 

[secondtry]

Ha, nope. But I do have something pretty similar. That is the setup from the German fellow whom I posted a link.

My setup was very basic, I tried to do as simple as possible. For heat I used a small shoe box covered with two blankets and used an incandescent bulb for heat source and light source irridiance measured with a lux meter. I used small vials a few inches in front of the bulb. It was around 90-95'F in the box the whole time. I didn't use any agitation. I used water from a pond or stream, I don't' remember which it's been like 2 years, I took water from anaerobic depths. The link to CW goes over what I did, but it was really basic, I wanted to see how simple I could make it. My latter cultures were more involved, with a heated stirer plate, etc.

HTH

 

[mad librettist]

My setup

My setup

ok don't laugh:

 

[Trichgnomes]

Hey no shame, man. Hell if it weren't for you an Microbeman, I probably wouldn't have started learning about and brewing EM.

 

[Microbeman]

No Vinny's continuous fermentor is an open top basin not a Winogradsky column. There is no aeration in a WC. It is described in his little book. I wouln't get a better response from Vinny. He is a little put off with me for sending him a utube song poking fun at new agers....I thought he would appreciate the humor but I guess it did not fit his mood.

A 5 to 7 day fermentation will produce a maximum of active diverse microorganisms and is best suited for horticultural use. A long term fermentation, especially with something like grape juice stabilizes at a low pH to preclude microbes pathogenic to humans, as 2ndtry has stated but also (IMO & according to data provided by Vinny) increases the antioxidant activity (and it tastes better).

IIRC the photo with the jar on the plate is part of an experiment to create hydrogen by starving PNSBs of nitrogen.