Zenith feminized limited edition

[Keif Cake]

Well, looks like it's lil ugly ass is keeping up, my guess on this one, looking at the structure and light color it is wanting to display is that some really tropical recessives married together for this one and it's not handling the extra nutrients i added according to grow recommendations in the description, compared to what i normally add in, and I'm just not used to seeing many nutrient toxicities other than nitrogen.

The stem is half the size of the other three.

The Super Panama Haze really are rushing me along, they are shooting up.

 

[Redrum92]

Too high lighting intensity with LED. They don't show traditional signs of being cooked, they just start to have metabolic death from the inside.

Try raising lights 6-12inches. In 2 weeks the new growth will look great.

 

[Keif Cake]

Too high lighting intensity with LED. They don't show traditional signs of being cooked, they just start to have metabolic death from the inside.

Try raising lights 6-12inches. In 2 weeks the new growth will look great.

I appreciate the response, but that is incorrect it's definitely not the led light, this isnt my first rodeo with LED's, and this little 100watt led that has been 3 feet over the canopy certainly isnt cooking my plants, let alone the most tropical looking one of the bunch. Just looking at the other 6 plants would tell you that. I have grown at least a hundred seedlings/plants under this led where it is currently sitting.

 

[Keif Cake]

She is turning into one beautiful girl though, look at lime green shining through. I have my eye on this one, because it seems to be quite the outlier, and the outliers is where some of the best cannabis has been found

And this one, i think this is the one I'm looking for based off the strain description

They look great, and then there are Super Panama Haze, looking... Super!!!

 

[Zomboy]

2 of my Zeniths were showing similar issues. Im also running LED. I backed the lights off, gave them a light feeding including cal/mag and the issue went away..

 

[Cactus Squatter]

Too high lighting intensity with LED. They don't show traditional signs of being cooked, they just start to have metabolic death from the inside.

Try raising lights 6-12inches. In 2 weeks the new growth will look great.

This for sure. My first grow with a high output led started looking just like the plants pictured. Second grow I raised the lights a little and zero problems since.

 

[Keif Cake]

This for sure. My first grow with a high output led started looking just like the plants pictured. Second grow I raised the lights a little and zero problems since.

The first time i used led a few years ago it took me a month or two of trying to chase down problems before being able to figure out it was getting cooked to death. I don't even adjust my lights anymore, just leave them raised as high as they can go and let the plants reach up into them

 

[Redrum92]

There was a time I thought I had LEDs dialed... and then I popped some new seeds, lol. I'm still within my first decade of experience so idk shit, but LEDs are powerful, and with great power comes great stupidity, at least from me.

Again, this is all just in my experience, but overdoing it with LEDs can be very weird depending on strain and environment.

That said, my second guess would be that there's just a problem in the boron-cal-mag relationship. Sensitive roots would be my third guess, e.g. needs to be up-potted. Some strains go all to hell the second the roots hit the bottom.

 

[Keif Cake]

There was a time I thought I had LEDs dialed... and then I popped some new seeds, lol. I'm still within my first decade of experience so idk shit, but LEDs are powerful, and with great power comes great stupidity, at least from me.

Again, this is all just in my experience, but overdoing it with LEDs can be very weird depending on strain and environment.

That said, my second guess would be that there's just a problem in the boron-cal-mag relationship. Sensitive roots would be my third guess, e.g. needs to be up-potted. Some strains go all to hell the second the roots hit the bottom.

I bet it being started in a small pot, and as usual being a couple weeks late on uppotting it had a greater effect on it than the others, but it started doing that before it had finished the second node so hitting the bottom of the pot could have had a lot to do with it, plus going into a mix a little too hot when it got uppotted.

I'm still not really sure on how much and how often to keep adding cal/mg, especially in the flower tent where i recently upgraded to much more powerful lights than used to be there. It is certainly a long adjustment period learning led.

There is certainly something going on with led that makes the plants run mg deficient

 

[thugpoet]

The fact that you are still experiencing this issue after repotting in fresh soil with nutrients and one of your plants seems to be slightly overfed which makes it hard to believe it's a regular Cal-Mag deficiency. Nutrient lockout can occur when providing too much of one nutrient thereby locking out some others or in a growing media with an imbalanced PH.
Also, it seems like different plants are having issues with different nutrients which would be consistent with a nutrient lockout.
The fact that the lower leaves seem to be showing damage and not the tallest plants or the ones that are in the light hotspot in particular also contradicts the idea that the lamp is too close.
How are you feeding?
What is your PH?

Cannamicably,

Thug

 

[Keif Cake]

The fact that you are still experiencing this issue after repotting in fresh soil with nutrients and one of your plants seems to be slightly overfed which makes it hard to believe it's a regular Cal-Mag deficiency. Nutrient lockout can occur when providing too much of one nutrient thereby locking out some others or in a growing media with an imbalanced PH.
Also, it seems like different plants are having issues with different nutrients which would be consistent with a nutrient lockout.
The fact that the lower leaves seem to be showing damage and not the tallest plants or the ones that are in the light hotspot in particular also contradicts the idea that the lamp is too close.
How are you feeding?
What is your PH?

Cannamicably,

Thug

The lower leaves show deficiency from waiting too long to uppot, that happens more times than not when i have them in the 4 inch pots, and im sure the ph is off at that point as well. I amend the soil and let that feed the plants, in the future i plan to replace a good portion of my growing medium with more soil, which is heavy with pro-mix so I don't have to add lime as often to keep the ph from dropping too low, you really notice it on the long flowering ones once they get about 11 weeks into flower, and need several more weeks to finish.
Most of the time im battling deficiencies or ph when there are issues becasue i dont want to overfeed the plants, this is the greenest they have been in a long time, i increased the amount of dr earth compared to what i normally measure out when i uppotted them, so backing that off by about half of what extra was added should be about right in the sweet spot.
Ive gotten a good bit of amendments to add in overtime, most recently needing to add micro nutrients to everything since i reuse my soil mix which goes into the soil bin, along with all my trim, sticks, stems, dried leaves, compost added into, vegetables, mushroom compost, and ive got about a gallon of insect frass to add into it, i just haven't felt like getting the buckets all together to use for mixing it up. There are worms, isopods, bacteria, fungi, and other organisms that break down the roots and everything else added into it.

So the mixture is always a moving target where things periodically need to be adjusted, and when on these long flowering time scales it takes a while to know the results of the changes that were made.

Well, the server error is preventing photos, but the soil bin is about 70 gallons or so and stays at least 3/4 full

 

[Keif Cake]

The taller Super Panama Hazes (the 3 on the right) didn't get started in the 4 inch pots, i used half gallon pots for those and they didnt develop near as many damaged areas as the Zenith

 

[Zomboy]

I have the zenith going with a few other hazes and haze hybrids, Mango Nig, Moonshine Ghost train haze and they are under a 65 watt HLG LED. Zenith were the only ones having the issue. I raised the light to the top of the tent and new growth is good to go. Mine didnt look as damged as yours, they looked like your Super Panama with the light interveinal fading. I cant say for sure but i think they just dont like the LED

 

[Zomboy]

I dont know how true it is but i’ve read that seed made from plants grown outdoors or under HID can struggle under LED. I know in my experience some OGs and chems were harder to grow under the LEDs as opposed to HID

 

[Keif Cake]

I have the zenith going with a few other hazes and haze hybrids, Mango Nig, Moonshine Ghost train haze and they are under a 65 watt HLG LED. Zenith were the only ones having the issue. I raised the light to the top of the tent and new growth is good to go. Mine didnt look as damged as yours, they looked like your Super Panama with the light interveinal fading. I cant say for sure but i think they just dont like the LED

I have the smallest vipar spectra raised as high as it can go right below the fan/filter in a 5 foot tent, which puts it about 3.5 ft above the top of half gallon pots
It'll be interesting to find out some of them have led issues, because that's the only one that showed issues before the late pot change. That's why i don't go around just chasing issues on individual plants, when the rest look fine, and start changing stuff willy nilly when you aren't sure what's going on, and then you end up frying it pretty good. I also don't want to throw my soil off too far any direction for the sake of one plant, ill do small adjustments, but it adapts or not in the end, im not going to have one problem ass plant ruin my soil mix for future grows because i threw way out of balance trying to make it happy. Just like some women, it's not worth trying to make some of them happy

I dont know how true it is but i’ve read that seed made from plants grown outdoors or under HID can struggle under LED. I know in my experience some OGs and chems were harder to grow under the LEDs as opposed to HID

I agree on anything chem, they like to eat themselves late in flower under the best of conditons, under the LEDs they look really ragged with all kinds of crispy ass curled leaves, but that organic chem under the high intensity led is nice and dense, terps are loud and right, and the smoke potent, so the fact that all the fans on it turned to shit by harvest isn't a big deal.
I know there can be a difference between plants acclimated to outside and those to inside and then switching them around, at least with stability issues, so it would stand to reason HiD and LED could share some issues reversing them as well.
I've seen where acclimatizing plants to a soil type or nutrient type pays off over time, like plants that are grown organic produce offspring that perform better in organic growing conditions, there are all kinds of interactions that go on with plants that we are clueless about.

 

[Zomboy]

Well said @Keif Cake hopefully she grows out of it. Sometimes those finicky ones turn out to be special

 

[Keif Cake]

Well said @Keif Cake hopefully she grows out of it. Sometimes those finicky ones turn out to be special

Thats what I'm hoping for!

 

[thugpoet]

The lower leaves show deficiency from waiting too long to uppot, that happens more times than not when i have them in the 4 inch pots, and im sure the ph is off at that point as well. I amend the soil and let that feed the plants, in the future i plan to replace a good portion of my growing medium with more soil, which is heavy with pro-mix so I don't have to add lime as often to keep the ph from dropping too low, you really notice it on the long flowering ones once they get about 11 weeks into flower, and need several more weeks to finish.
Most of the time im battling deficiencies or ph when there are issues becasue i dont want to overfeed the plants, this is the greenest they have been in a long time, i increased the amount of dr earth compared to what i normally measure out when i uppotted them, so backing that off by about half of what extra was added should be about right in the sweet spot.
Ive gotten a good bit of amendments to add in overtime, most recently needing to add micro nutrients to everything since i reuse my soil mix which goes into the soil bin, along with all my trim, sticks, stems, dried leaves, compost added into, vegetables, mushroom compost, and ive got about a gallon of insect frass to add into it, i just haven't felt like getting the buckets all together to use for mixing it up. There are worms, isopods, bacteria, fungi, and other organisms that break down the roots and everything else added into it.

So the mixture is always a moving target where things periodically need to be adjusted, and when on these long flowering time scales it takes a while to know the results of the changes that were made.

Well, the server error is preventing photos, but the soil bin is about 70 gallons or so and stays at least 3/4 full

Ok, I see. The older leaves symptoms are from pre-repotting.

Most of your plants here look like they are getting plenty. It would appear that the Z is a lot finickier than your Super Panama Hazes. I would watch the one in bottom left corner, it looks like it is slightly yellowing from the top (or is that a pre-repotting issue as well?)

This is where the challenge lies when starting from seeds with different varieties in a soil grow. You have to guesstimate the dosage of your amendments. I would recommend always starting with not too hot of a mix and adjusting for each plant's individual needs with teas/liquid organic nutes and/or foliar spray.

And yeah with LED and/ or coco, you need to stay on top of Cal-Mag. Organic grows require a lot of calcium in general.

What is your soil made of and what amendments are you adding out of curiosity? I think you alluded to the fact that your soil may be low in micro and/ or trace nutrients?

Cannamicably,

Thug

 

[Keif Cake]

It is fast adapting, the color is a bit darker starting from the center outward looking closer in color to the others, it is the tallest Zenith and catching up to shortest Super Panama Haze. Tried posting pics, still not able to because of the server issues.

I have been using the same soil for about 3 years, the last time i added any was at least a year ago. It is a mix of a majority pro-mix, so a little too heavy of a peat base, i only recently learned peat likes to return as close to 4.5 ph as it can get every few months, so im always fighting ph issues, and still trying to get the correct schedule for adding lime to keep it high enough for good growth, but i dont want to add so much Ive gone the other direction, so i incrementally increase it and other nutrients as needed, and running a perpetual grow i can make a lot of adjustments in a calendar year compared to if i flowered everything at once.

When i get ready to use the mix, i measure out 2/3's of each pot im filling, add lime, epsom salt, dr earth bat guano, seabird guano, super triple phosphate so it has some quick release, some other super soil dry amendments im trying to finish off, and sometimes gypsum.
It depends on what stage of life the plant is at on how much of each i add into it, and for seed starting i just use the mix in the tub as is, except for maybe a little lime and epsom salt, then when it gets to an appropriate point ill use a little bio bizz fish mix to boost it off.

I also have crystalized micronutrients and sulfate of potash to add whenever a deficiency pops up, although now that micros became an issue with the mix, ive started adding that on a monthly basis. Im also thinking bi-monthly is needed for epsom salt, and probably lime every 6 weeks.

Im sure im forgetting something but that is mainly what goes in when im potting up plants so i have some control over the amounts plants are getting based on what ive seen from it

 

[Keif Cake]

The other stuff besides peat are a few different brands garden soil, perlite, some coco from my mushroom grows (which ive recently learned binds calcium), and a little soil/clay from out in the yard

The mix starts running out of steam at different points for different plants, so im still learning a good top dress frequency, plus using bio bizz bloom to try and keep the fade from happening too soon