Why Work? The Zero Work Movement

[Berry_Coughin']

Uhm Tiger you pay taxes?

yeah, so do I so aren't we paying for schools? And I pay a part (small one) of my health coverage... my employer too covers me.....

The only thing I HATE about our society... is that capitalism is incorporated everywhere EXCEPT our public schools..... that is where socialism breaks the system..... the mediocre bullshit teachers get paid their little salary ... where we could put some of the most educated educators in there to jump start our children if we'd only pay for it...... isn't that worth the investment.... I look at some kids today and think it is.....

 

[Berry_Coughin']

Truth.... When you get there give me a call and I'll come running... 'til then.....

 

[Guest]

that's why our public schools are horrible - they fit into a non-capitalist context in terms of being run.

there is no incentive to work harder for teachers, so we have crappy teachers who do not care about their job as much as they would if the public schools were privatized

charter schools in europe are a perfect example of a good schooling system. it is a more capitalist setting where working harder does pay off, and where teachers are held to very high standards.

back here we have teachers unions and a uncapitalistic situation that leads to poor public schools

 

[mangled]

you need to take a class in macroeconomics

 

[NiteTiger]

Uhm Tiger you pay taxes?

yeah, so do I so aren't we paying for schools? And I pay a part (small one) of my health coverage... my employer too covers me.....

The only thing I HATE about our society... is that capitalism is incorporated everywhere EXCEPT our public schools..... that is where socialism breaks the system..... the mediocre bullshit teachers get paid their little salary ... where we could put some of the most educated educators in there to jump start our children if we'd only pay for it...... isn't that worth the investment.... I look at some kids today and think it is.....

Um, yeah, I do pay my taxes?

And of course, you do have the option of paying out of your own pocket for a better school.

As far as teacher pay, let's not go there, because I sure would love a job that pays me $32k and get 3 months off per year. If you look at hour per hour, teachers make decent money. Effectively $22/hr, with a 3 month vacation. My wife is a nurse and makes less than that hourly and if she took 3 months off she'd have no job to come back to.

So, we won't go there :wink:

 

[Guest]

you need to take a class in macroeconomics

feel free to explain why

 

[NserUame]

I'd rather the government puts my tax money to some stupid project than to some lazy no good bum. Every government has 'black projects' you're shitting yourself if you think otherwise. Other countries are just better at it because they aren't as careless with their information. If you were hurt, got fired randomly then fine go on welfare until you can get on your feet. That's what it's there for. However the people that live off of it for years need to go get bent. You make a bunch of excuses which have nothing to do with the issue at hand, you're a burden on society. You don't work, you contribute nothing and yet expect everything. That kind of mentality is responsible for the downfall of this country.

The sad thing is I see some of these 'proud' welfare using members complaining about Bush and the world and yet they're a major cause of these problems.

 

[Guest]

Well I'm way late to this thread, and haven't read all the pages. Its funny, because I'm JUST about to go and talk to someone about a full time job at a nursery.

Gangabiss - I can see the point your trying to make, from an intellectual level. The money you have worked hard for, that has ultimately gone to government and shitty things that you didn't agree with. I feel the same way I guess. I just seriously haven't really been enlightened about all of this until today.

So I will read all of this and try to form my own opinion. Very interesting stuff.

In the meantime, I will probably get this full-time job. I just moved back with my parents, graduating college in May. Thats where I am. Need money to go to Hawaii and pay some bills.

Okay I have to go... I will look more into this and respond more later.

 

[scorpioking13]

Hmmm...Why work? Let me think for a minute.

Oh yeah.. Because its not pratical in my current situation I must buy food and buy shelter to keep myself alive. I live in a place that gets mighty cold and homeless people without help dont make it very long. Also, Although i would gladly try hunting and farming my own food I have no place to do so.

While Im paying for shelter i mine as well get some electricity so i can provide myself my smoke that i love so much. Yes i could find a spot in the woods but i prefer the security of indoor cultivation.

I have a problem holding jobs for long periods of time. I get bored fairly easily and then get frustrated when im not challenged on a regular basis. Of course i would and could find better things to do with my time than selling it to others for far to less money, but when it comes right down to it i need to pay the bills. Ive done everything including factory, production, outdoor seasonal, outdoor year round, service, and self employed work. So far my new job is the one i like the most. It mainly involves helping elderly and low income people and makes me feel good at the end of the day. I actually took a good size pay cut for it but feel much better about life and the direction its bringing me.

 

[Berry_Coughin']

Um, yeah, I do pay my taxes?

And of course, you do have the option of paying out of your own pocket for a better school.

As far as teacher pay, let's not go there, because I sure would love a job that pays me $32k and get 3 months off per year. If you look at hour per hour, teachers make decent money. Effectively $22/hr, with a 3 month vacation. My wife is a nurse and makes less than that hourly and if she took 3 months off she'd have no job to come back to.

So, we won't go there :wink:

OMG I agree with you totally..... I am saying if we'd use free enterprise..... like everywhere else in our society....in our school systems... we could put the BEST people in there that could do the BEST job... not just 'oh we have x amount of budget...ok go hire recently graduated johnny and get him in room 402' nooo we could have really great minds in the school systems..... not discrediting the many great teachers we do have... my father is a teacher...... I am just saying it's fucked that someone is willing to pay x man x million to catch x ball..... and 27k goes to the person to help guide my child through life??? I guess it's free enterprise so it's their choice to pay those guys that much..... but I don't know.... maybe I'm trippin' anyone see where I'm coming from?

 

[Berry_Coughin']

I'd rather the government puts my tax money to some stupid project than to some lazy no good bum. Every government has 'black projects' you're shitting yourself if you think otherwise. Other countries are just better at it because they aren't as careless with their information. If you were hurt, got fired randomly then fine go on welfare until you can get on your feet. That's what it's there for. However the people that live off of it for years need to go get bent. You make a bunch of excuses which have nothing to do with the issue at hand, you're a burden on society. You don't work, you contribute nothing and yet expect everything. That kind of mentality is responsible for the downfall of this country.

The sad thing is I see some of these 'proud' welfare using members complaining about Bush and the world and yet they're a major cause of these problems.

Cannot give any more rep..... you said it brother.....

 

[ngakpa]

if you look at the initial essay "In Praise of Idleness" it is clear that BR is not advocating a society in which people do no work at all

ironically though, Russell is in fact attacking an insidious myth which has already raised its ugly head in this thread many a time:

in its feudal Christian form, this is the myth that toil is man's natural condition (following the Fall with the expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden)

in our modern culture this feudal ideology of toil persists in the belief that we must in this society work hard out of necessity

this myth is so deeply a part of the minds of many individuals that they take it for a natural fact of life, not a mere opinion, that the basic condition of an individual is a life of hard work

interestingly, in conversation with anthropolgists I have been told that in pre-agrarian and pre-urban cultures hunter gatherers would typically have needed only to work for around four hours a day

I wonder if it occured to them that they were behaving unnaturally?

or perhaps "ignorance" really is bliss?

certainly it seems clear enough to me that the natural condition of an enlightened society is a life of leisure, and that the vast majority of work which is done in this world of ours is profoundly unnecessary, (and from any sane perspective more often than not worse than useless)

 

[Guest]

h-gs also were only working for water and food. not for every other luxury of human life we use today...

 

[sophisto]

Nothing was flipped to support a bias. You did not clarify your position, as you have now.

How do I not pay for my chldren's education? Well, they go to public schools, and the city pays for that. For college, my government offers grants and scholarships.

My employer pays for my health insurance.

Just so you know.... You pay the city which pays the school, and grants and scholarships great...A child when they get out of school now has a debt in student loans to look forward too. Your employer as a corporate power pays peanuts for the healthcare plans he gives to you guys. I as a self employed pay through the teeth, why in our country is it fair for the smaller number to have less power in attaining affordable healthcare....Why??? because these larger corporate powers pay more tax so being that the insurance companies ( not salesman) are part of the system they are bias to those who make them less money..You see in Capitalism everything is about money....When in reality we as a country are fucking broke ( national deficit 6 trillion dollars!!!!) where the hell is our money coming from?????

You and Me!!!!! And the programs they set up to allow fraud so they can fraud it themselves.

 

[ngakpa]

Source: 41% Percent of Your 2006 Taxes Go to War, Friends Committee on National Legislation, February 15, 2007

In Context: US military budget vs. other US priorities

billions of dollars / percent of federal funds budget


Current Military Spending 571.6 28%
Cost of Past Wars 263.5 13%
Total military percent 41%

Health Research & Services 393.5 19%
Responses to Poverty 241.0 12%
Interest on Non-Military Share of Federal Debt 211.5 10%
General Government 84.6 4%
Community & Economic Development 112.1 5%
Social Programs 97.7 5%
Science, Energy, & Environment 50.8 2%
Non-Military International Programs 29.8 1%

 

[Berry_Coughin']

Just so you know.... You pay the city which pays the school, and grants and scholarships great...A child when they get out of school now has a debt in student loans to look forward too. Your employer as a corporate power pays peanuts for the healthcare plans he gives to you guys. I as a self employed pay through the teeth, why in our country is it fair for the smaller number to have less power in attaining affordable healthcare....Why??? because these larger corporate powers pay more tax so being that the insurance companies ( not salesman) are part of the system they are bias to those who make them less money..You see in Capitalism everything is about money....When in reality we as a country are fucking broke ( national deficit 6 trillion dollars!!!!) where the hell is our money coming from?????

You and Me!!!!! And the programs they set up to allow fraud so they can fraud it themselves.

whoa whoa whoa slow down.... you don't just get a student loan debt... obviously you have no secondary education.....and you pay through the teeth because you are not a good consumer... do some shopping around maybe......and broke......?????really...... how the hell are you typing on a computer on the internet if we're all broke.... last I looked I was doing very well.....

 

[EddieShoestring]

certainly it seems clear enough to me that the natural condition of an enlightened society is a life of leisure, and that the vast majority of work which is done in this world of ours is profoundly unnecessary

...................words of wisdom

alot of the people i see are like robots going to work, doing something that is personally meaningless to them, going home-watching TV-they seem like they are in a daze -if you present them with an alternative it can be threatening

my father spent his entire life working long hours in a job that he didn't particularly like and got very dissillusioned when, aged about 60, he realised he'd been wasting his time for 45 years. I vowed at 16 that i'd learn from his mistakes...........i hope my children learn from mine

eddie
SuperKristal Morrocan

 

[ngakpa]

cheers Eddie

here is some very useful info on taxes and war/murder

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp

I personally believe it should be mandatory for any government to have totally transparent systems of taxation (under international law)

it's appaling just how ignorant people are of just how much of their money, and thus how much of their time and lives, is spent on arms and war by our respective governments

 

[NiteTiger]

Just so you know.... You pay the city which pays the school, and grants and scholarships great...A child when they get out of school now has a debt in student loans to look forward too. Your employer as a corporate power pays peanuts for the healthcare plans he gives to you guys. I as a self employed pay through the teeth, why in our country is it fair for the smaller number to have less power in attaining affordable healthcare....Why??? because these larger corporate powers pay more tax so being that the insurance companies ( not salesman) are part of the system they are bias to those who make them less money..You see in Capitalism everything is about money....When in reality we as a country are fucking broke ( national deficit 6 trillion dollars!!!!) where the hell is our money coming from?????

You and Me!!!!! And the programs they set up to allow fraud so they can fraud it themselves.

Well, if they're going on scholarships and grants, they have no student loans. And yes, the taxes I pay go to the public schools, but how's that any different from the socialist system you were describing?

I'm sorry you're paying so much for health insurance as a small business owner. I know when I had my small business, premiums were outrageous. So I went to a Small Business conference and found out about a group policy for small businesses, and got health benefits for much much cheaper. But, you are a businessman, so I'm sure you're familiar with company accounts, and what the cost of doing business is, so if your company is going to offer health insurance to its employee, that has to be figured into the profits and losses.

As far as setup to allow fraud, and who does the defrauding, that's not even an issue worth addressing here.

 

[Berry_Coughin']

cheers Eddie

here is some very useful info on taxes and war/murder

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp

I personally believe it should be mandatory for any government to have totally transparent systems of taxation (under international law)

it's appaling just how ignorant people are of just how much of their money, and thus how much of their time and lives, is spent on arms and war by our respective governments

That's not a bad Idea.... I don't like the International part..... but yeah, hold them responsible by having complete oversight of the budgeting..... not that we'd have a direct impact but then we could see and push representatives in the right directions.....