Why Work? The Zero Work Movement

[Gangabiss]

I never said I was proud to be on welfare man. I said I didn't feel the least bit guilty...there's a big difference.

I'm simply using it as a stepping stone to get where I want to go. Like you, my love is in growing and caring for my plants and reaping the end result. It brings me peace and sanity.

It's not that I'm lazy or just don't like working...it's the fact that I literally start going insane after the first couple of weeks at a new job and I usually end up going into breakdown mode.
I don't know wether it's due to social anxiety or what.

Sometimes I'll just get the feeling I want to run out of the place and fuck off back home. I have issues, I know this.

I've been reduced to sobbing like a little baby because of the thought of spending another day whoring my life out for some other persons business...I'm not proud of that.

I'm just not able to commit to a 9-5 job. I just don't work that way.

I would honestly rather be homeless and go off into the forest to fend for myself than commit my life to a job that I hate...but I'm trying to make sure that doesn't happen.

peace

 

[ngakpa]

Gangabiss, you are too tough on yourself man

why the need to justify or apologise for the deep reaction your mind is having against the way of life these guys are defending?

surely you should be listening to that reaction, that anxiety - it's a message, a message from the depth of your mind, and it's saying: this ain't for you, get the fuck out - now!

and the flip side of that reaction is this - upwardly mobile bourgois mother fuckers will tell you it's a sign of weakness, a sing you are misfit

it's a testament to your strength of character - instead of just (metaphorically) bending over as 99% of people will do without even thinking it out ot themselves, and buying on a deep level that "this is just how it is" and that the workaday culture is a given, an inevitability, a direct expression of the natural way of things ... instead of your subconscious buying into that, you are getting a direct impulse from your gut telling you - no, it ain't so, this isn't right ... on a basic gut level your getting told there are other possibilites

my advice: save up for a ticket, and as much on top of that as you can manage ...

the Himalaya, the Ganjes, SE Asia, South America, Ghana ..

there are countless places where life can give you an object lesson in the possibilities life affords, a direct experience of the fact that there are other ways of living and hence on a direct experiential level - other ways of "being in the world"

you could go the whole way - hook up with Peruvian shamans, Tibetan yogins, Sufi mystics ... some will be charlatans, some will be the real deal ... or you could just chill for half a year on the Mekong, hook up with a beautiful chick from Issan, rent a wood house for 50 dollars a month and smoke, eat and fuck day and night

in most of the world you can make £4000 (GBP) last a year without even trying

the world's your oyster man, stop apologising for the way you are - find a place where people are getting it right, and don't feel you have to get it wrong just because everyone else where you are is

like my mum will say - "don't let the bastards grind you down"

chok dee bro

Namkha

 

[Guest]

I can't believe there are still people wrangling with Gangabiss over welfare even after the figures on federal spenidng were posted lol

... 41% of your federal taxes, and rising...

where's all the righteous indignation about that guys?

yeah. now take a look at the socialist countries....

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

not when measured in terms of technology or waiting lines, though

so basically you are saying that since u.s has less waiting for medical attention and more gadgets, it does not matter if the actual medical service is crap, as it is evidenced by the fact that u.s is the number 1 country in the whole world where medical malpraxis is at its highest peak, um... ok! so remember u.s citizens, you will be seen faster than in other countries, will have more gadgets around you, but the docs may end up killing you, but worry not, according to twisted statistics, this actually means u.s health care system is the best, do not question our logic or we will call you a socialist or even worste, a commie!

peace

 

[Gangabiss]

Gangabiss, you are too tough on yourself man

why the need to justify or apologise for the deep reaction your mind is having against the way of life these guys are defending?

surely you should be listening to that reaction, that anxiety - it's a message, a message from the depth of your mind, and it's saying: this ain't for you, get the fuck out - now!

and the flip side of that reaction is this - upwardly mobile bourgois mother fuckers will tell you it's a sign of weakness, a sing you are misfit

it's a testament to your strength of character - instead of just (metaphorically) bending over as 99% of people will do without even thinking it out ot themselves, and buying on a deep level that "this is just how it is" and that the workaday culture is a given, an inevitability, a direct expression of the natural way of things ... instead of your subconscious buying into that, you are getting a direct impulse from your gut telling you - no, it ain't so, this isn't right ... on a basic gut level your getting told there are other possibilites

my advice: save up for a ticket, and as much on top of that as you can manage ...

the Himalaya, the Ganjes, SE Asia, South America, Ghana ..

there are countless places where life can give you an object lesson in the possibilities life affords, a direct experience of the fact that there are other ways of living and hence on a direct experiential level - other ways of "being in the world"

you could go the whole way - hook up with Peruvian shamans, Tibetan yogins, Sufi mystics ... some will be charlatans, some will be the real deal ... or you could just chill for half a year on the Mekong, hook up with a beautiful chick from Issan, rent a wood house for 50 dollars a month and smoke, eat and fuck day and night

in most of the world you can make £4000 (GBP) last a year without even trying

the world's your oyster man, stop apologising for the way you are - find a place where people are getting it right, and don't feel you have to get it wrong just because everyone else where you are is

like my mum will say - "don't let the bastards grind you down"

chok dee bro

Namkha

I like the way you think man. I think we'd get on well...and thanks for the support It's hard to find other people who are on the same wavelength.

I've actually been thinking about saving up a few grand and flying off to India or SE Asia for a few months or maybe even a year. I need to do some research though as I really have no idea what travelling entails...furthest I've gone from home is Portugal...and that's not really too exotic compared to the UK.

"hook up with a beautiful chick from Issan, rent a wood house for 50 dollars a month and smoke, eat and fuck day and night"

Now that is my idea of paradise right there. No worries, no working your arse off, just relaxing with a nice sexy asian chick, smoking my ganja and living the free life.

Can you really rent a house for 50 dollars per month?? I guess it will just be a tiny wooden hut or something but I really wouldn't care.

Could I stay there for 6 months without a visa? Sorry for all the questions man, if you want to respond via pm so as not to hijack the thread that's cool.

peace

 

[Guest]

nga - wow your post really resonated with me...

and gangabiss - i can actually understand where your coming from. I think you had to go through a decent amount of mental pain to come to your decision of welfare. You seem smart so I get where your coming from.

I think you right, that you'd be better off in a different system. Thats the problem. When your raised in THIS system, its hard to get out. So I hope you can use this system long enough to get to where you want to go.

This thread has really gotten me thinking. I've been learning how to garden recently. Learning about rainwater harvesting...things like that. I think I would also be happier on my own. Like genkisan said, 3-5 hours a day. Doing my own thing...

I think thats the path I'm kinda on. In fact, I might be, in the next week, volunteering my time to work on an organic farm. In exchange for 4-6 hours of working among plants in a peaceful setting, I get free rent...and maybe some food I think.

Gangabiss - I think you are close to finding where you want to be. Maybe look into what I'm doing. Its called WWOOF. Google it. You can go around the world, stay on organic farms and exchange work for room and board. Usually these farms practice self-reliance too... they're all different. Different crops, different animals, different systems, different energy system, etc...

It could be what you need man... cuz I know for sure, that this is going to teach me a TON about plants and organics. It will put me in a way better place, since I'll be in full gear on a path to wear I want to go.

I think of the best things we can do to get away from any system, is to just be more independent. And one easy way is growing your own food. Thats why growing your own weed is empowering. But if you can do both, you are THAT much more independent.

Its like when you go to the store and buy $3.50 worth of tomatoes. You really are paying $4.10 for that... because of income taxes. Thats bullshit.

So if you start growing your own everything. Then keep building on that. Put up solar panels. Wind power. Harvest rainwater. Sooner or later you'll realize that the world isn't as bad as you thought it was...because you are making a huge difference for yourself.

You can even do some of this stuff right here in the US. Hell, even in the middle of LA.

Check out http://www.pathtofreedom.com

Thats just one example of people homesteading in the middle of LA.

We have hope guys. We just need to keep growing our own. Everything. And harvesting our own power and resources as much as possible. Putting the power back to us. Action 2 change.

Thats why I'm WWOOFing. Its like the college I always wanted to go to. But its free.

Here's the link to the American WWOOF page.
http://www.wwoofusa.org/

I hope everyone can find the power to help themselves. You help yourself, your ultimately helping the entire planet. Grow your own. Harvest your own. Power your own.

 

[Guest]

so basically you are saying that since u.s has less waiting for medical attention and more gadgets, it does not matter if the actual medical service is crap, as it is evidenced by the fact that u.s is the number 1 country in the whole world where medical malpraxis is at its highest peak, um... ok! so remember u.s citizens, you will be seen faster than in other countries, will have more gadgets around you, but the docs may end up killing you, but worry not, according to twisted statistics, this actually means u.s health care system is the best, do not question our logic or we will call you a socialist or even worste, a commie!

peace

medical quality WILL go down if nat'l healthcare is mandatory. that's all im saying.

# of doctors (and their being overworked >>> malpractice) doesn't seem to have to do much with a nat'l mandatory healthcare system or not

im just saying - when you make everyone have healthcare, the quality goes down, and this is one of the reasons the US has the best technology and shortest lines.

it's a tradeoff, plain and simple. an unfortunate one

 

[NiteTiger]

Hey now, I never said that I wanted to spend my life working, or that I thought it was what had to be done, my objection is to the idea that you don't have to do any work at all.

Even living self-sufficient requires work.

In all fairness Gangabiss, you didn't exactly represent that you were using welfare as a stepping stone :smile: That I don't mind, that's why it's there. I got the impression you were proud to be mooching off the gov't, that's was the heart of my issue.

ngakpa - Of course we don't like those stats. But changing the military spending is something we can have very little direct control over, whereas reducing the welfare rolls is much more doable.

 

[NiteTiger]

In all fairness Ganga, that's not quite the way you represented yourself in that first post :smile: I have no problems with someone using welfare as a stepping stone in tough times. Hell, that's what it is designed to be. I got the impression you were proud to be mooching off the government, and I believe others did as well.

ngakpa - Of course we don't like those stats, but we can have very little direct effect on the military spending, whereas reducing the welfare rolls is something that is doable.

 

[Guest]

so basically you are saying that since u.s has less waiting for medical attention and more gadgets, it does not matter if the actual medical service is crap, as it is evidenced by the fact that u.s is the number 1 country in the whole world where medical malpraxis is at its highest peak, um... ok! so remember u.s citizens, you will be seen faster than in other countries, will have more gadgets around you, but the docs may end up killing you, but worry not, according to twisted statistics, this actually means u.s health care system is the best, do not question our logic or we will call you a socialist or even worste, a commie!

peace

im basically saying when you do national healthcare you lower quality.
us has great tech, and not long lines...which is truly a great thing
downside is, not everyone has it which is a problem im concerned with

it seems hard to give healthcare to everyone while maintaining high quality and low lines

doctor #s don't have much to do with giving everyone healthcare or not - that's a separate issue i feel

 

[Guest]

I agree Ganga - the way you said you were "mooching" off the government, and then said you were not the slightest bit guilty, and following that with a "hahahaha" and a smile... thats what actually pissed off me and many others.

I think you need to figure some things out dude.

 

[green_grow]

it's amazing how far this thread has wandered from the original topic, which was, i believe, that MOST people, do a significant amount of their work in order to provide a leisurely (parasitic) existence for the privileged few . remember that the "weekend" is a fairly recent innovation; as is the 8 hour (as opposed to 12 hour, or longer) workday. anyone interested in going back to the 'good old days' ? the authors point was that some leisure is a GOOD thing; whereas endless toil is not .

i have to agree with nite tiger on his comment ... find a job you love and you'll never work another day in your life . sadly, i am still looking for that job after more than 30 years . that's my own fault though.

 

[green_grow]

BULLSHIT!!!


While someone attempting to live that lifestyle wth no knowledge and preparation would "be dead in three days if you had to do what you're idolizing", a serious person who truely wants to embrace that lifestyle can do so quite well, and with wonderful results. Once you have the infrastructure established, that life is actually WAY less labour and stress intensive than working for money which you then use to live off.

I have a friend who lives on 18 acres of country property. He built his own house, which is off the grid and wired for 12V. He grows most of his own food in the summer and fall.
The entire set-up cost him $80K total over 6 years...thats the land, the house, his power system and everything.
He lives on about $12K cash a year, and works about 12 hours a week for money. The rest of his time is spent taking care of his land/gardens and relaxing.....he does an average of 3-5 hours of work a day total.....the rest of his time is HIS.

If one is serious, living a low-key, low-impact life of subsistience farming and gathering is about the best life one can have.....3-5 hours work a day, almost no taxes, no money worries, and tons of free time.



And most important........ the knowledge that one is not part of and dependant on a malignant and destructive economy.

finally, someone has gotten back to the point of the original essay . well done . i have heard it said that city-dwellers sell their soul for a paycheque . i sold mine long ago and the cheque wasn't that big, lemmetellya .

nite tiger, i often agree with what you are saying, but how can eveyone here shit all over ganjabliss for garnering a few months worth of welfare while you, and others, say you got a FREE university education paid for by the government ? also, how does one go about getting said free education? thanks .

 

[ngakpa]

yeah. now take a look at the socialist countries....

lol sure, why not? I'm no socialist by the way, but I don't think the evidence is going to work in your favour here somehow
source Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation, Feb 2007
http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp

Military Spending 2005 ($ billions, followd by % of total government spending)

1. United States 420.7 43%
2. China * 62.5 6%
3. Russia * 61.9 6%
4. United Kingdom 51.1 5%
5. Japan 44.7 4%
6. France 41.6 4%
7. Germany 30.2 3%
8. India 22 2%
9. Saudi Arabia 21.3 2%
10. South Korea 20.7 2%

Italy 17.2 2%
Australia 13.2 1%
Brazil 13.1 1%
Canada 10.9 1%
Turkey 9.8 1%
Israel* 9.7 1%
Netherlands 9.7 1%
Spain 8.8 1%
Taiwan 8.3 1%
Indonesia* 7.6 1%

Myanmar 6.9 1%
Ukraine* 6 1%
Singapore 5.6 1%
Sweden 5.6 1%
North Korea* 5.5 1%
Poland 5.2 0%
27. Iran 4.9 1%
Norway 4.7 0%
Greece* 4.5 0%
Kuwait 4.3 0%

Colombia* 3.9 0%
Switzerland 3.8 0%
Pakistan 3.7 0%
Vietnam 3.5 0%
Belgium 3.4 0%

hmmm

Namkha

 

[sophisto]

Gangabiss, you are too tough on yourself man

why the need to justify or apologise for the deep reaction your mind is having against the way of life these guys are defending?

surely you should be listening to that reaction, that anxiety - it's a message, a message from the depth of your mind, and it's saying: this ain't for you, get the fuck out - now!

and the flip side of that reaction is this - upwardly mobile bourgois mother fuckers will tell you it's a sign of weakness, a sing you are misfit

it's a testament to your strength of character - instead of just (metaphorically) bending over as 99% of people will do without even thinking it out ot themselves, and buying on a deep level that "this is just how it is" and that the workaday culture is a given, an inevitability, a direct expression of the natural way of things ... instead of your subconscious buying into that, you are getting a direct impulse from your gut telling you - no, it ain't so, this isn't right ... on a basic gut level your getting told there are other possibilites

my advice: save up for a ticket, and as much on top of that as you can manage ...

the Himalaya, the Ganjes, SE Asia, South America, Ghana ..

there are countless places where life can give you an object lesson in the possibilities life affords, a direct experience of the fact that there are other ways of living and hence on a direct experiential level - other ways of "being in the world"

you could go the whole way - hook up with Peruvian shamans, Tibetan yogins, Sufi mystics ... some will be charlatans, some will be the real deal ... or you could just chill for half a year on the Mekong, hook up with a beautiful chick from Issan, rent a wood house for 50 dollars a month and smoke, eat and fuck day and night

in most of the world you can make £4000 (GBP) last a year without even trying

the world's your oyster man, stop apologising for the way you are - find a place where people are getting it right, and don't feel you have to get it wrong just because everyone else where you are is

like my mum will say - "don't let the bastards grind you down"

chok dee bro

Namkha

Ditto to everything that was just said. You are who you are bro. Be proud of that. I commend you in knowing at least what you dislike about work not many even know that. I firmly believe that man without purpose is dead. I was lucky and found a purpose ( art, interior design, faux painting) that I love, aside from my fiance, child and plants it is the most important thing in my life. It drives me and excites me it challenges me to adapt and find solutions...If you find something that you love stick with it, there is always a way to make money when passion is behind it. On the flip side accepting the mediocre for a paycheck when it's hard to wear a smile doing it is shit. "It's better for a man to be sane and know himself, than to pretend to be sane and loose himself".

 

[mangled]

ok there is a thing called the GDP
and when people start not working, its drops and YOU the person who is what working, along with everyone else, suffers.
We live in a SOCIETY
and ANY society has to answer 3 basic questions:
What are we producing
How are we producing it
and for Whom are we producing it

now people like Genki are still working, they are useing labor and produceing goods - fruits, vegetables etc. they are self sustained, which is still WORKING farming is very Labor intensive

but any person has to WORK in order to survive, growing cannabis is WORK, you are produceing a good which people buy for top $$

but not working, ie. being a bum and sitting around all day with your thumb up your ass is stupid and goes no where.
I would rather live in a scoiety than live like a neanderthal BUT that is just my OPINOIN
and i RESPECT people like Genki who are self-sustained

 

[ngakpa]

it's amazing how far this thread has wandered from the original topic, which was, i believe, that MOST people, do a significant amount of their work in order to provide a leisurely (parasitic) existence for the privileged few . remember that the "weekend" is a fairly recent innovation; as is the 8 hour (as opposed to 12 hour, or longer) workday. anyone interested in going back to the 'good old days' ? the authors point was that some leisure is a GOOD thing; whereas endless toil is not .

sure green_grow, it's typical that people seem to believe Russell was adovcating no work at all - it's the black and white thinking of the ideologically purblind

though let's be clear: the 12 hour work day arrived with the Industrial Revolution and the development of factory/workhouse labour

and in fact it was not uncommon for people to be made to work significantly longer hours, up to 16 hours a day, and of course for six days a week!

and more to the point, these kind of work conditions are right now standard practice across China

and China as we know produces a vast % of the goods we in North America, the UK and Europe are consuming - 12 hours, 6 days a week, factory/dormitory living

so much for the fucking abolition of slavery, so much for the bad old days -

all of us will have bought many goods produced in thse conditions by Chinese workers - and a typical worker will mamnage 3 to 4 years of that, before needing to be "replaced" due to breakdown etc.

http://www.fedee.com/histwt.html

but I must admit I see your ironic reference to the "good old days" as a typical example of myth distorting the past, and distorting the origins of our present condition - "false consciousness" -

our lifestyle is still a direct product and consequence of the Industrial Revolution, not of any deeper natural order which dictates we must live this way, and if Russell's essay achieves anything it should make us aware of the fact that our condition is contingent upon history

modern life it is a wholly contingent cultural phenomenon

or does anyone here really think that in some way the natural order necessitates us living in this way?

clearly not - continous expansion of production and consumption is clearly incompatible with a stable global ecology, and moreover, incompatible with human happiness

this is what Russell is on about - how to be truly Civilised - which means being happy, and being harmonious

IMHO capitalism as it is now practised produces ecological destruction and economic inequality; economic inequality in turn produces domestic and international unrest (e.g. war, civil war and soaring crime rates, and of course extremism)

I advise anyone who is singing the praises of the global marketplace to have a look at what is going on in China - "Dickensian" is a understament and an anchronism, this is barbarity on a whole new scale

 

[Guest]

lol sure, why not? I'm no socialist by the way, but I don't think the evidence is going to work in your favour here somehow
source Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation, Feb 2007
http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp

Military Spending 2005 ($ billions, followd by % of total government spending)

1. United States 420.7 43%
2. China * 62.5 6%
3. Russia * 61.9 6%
4. United Kingdom 51.1 5%
5. Japan 44.7 4%
6. France 41.6 4%
7. Germany 30.2 3%
8. India 22 2%
9. Saudi Arabia 21.3 2%
10. South Korea 20.7 2%

Italy 17.2 2%
Australia 13.2 1%
Brazil 13.1 1%
Canada 10.9 1%
Turkey 9.8 1%
Israel* 9.7 1%
Netherlands 9.7 1%
Spain 8.8 1%
Taiwan 8.3 1%
Indonesia* 7.6 1%

Myanmar 6.9 1%
Ukraine* 6 1%
Singapore 5.6 1%
Sweden 5.6 1%
North Korea* 5.5 1%
Poland 5.2 0%
27. Iran 4.9 1%
Norway 4.7 0%
Greece* 4.5 0%
Kuwait 4.3 0%

Colombia* 3.9 0%
Switzerland 3.8 0%
Pakistan 3.7 0%
Vietnam 3.5 0%
Belgium 3.4 0%

hmmm

Namkha

I wasn't talkin about military spending. I'm talking about amount of taxes.

And seriously - I'm sure we spend too much on military, but when Iran starts telling us "there will soon be a world without america," to tell you the truth, I'm glad we have the most powerful military on earth.

 

[ngakpa]

43% of the federal taxes you pay goes on murder ... and you're happy with that, and you're not happy about welfare scabs ... okey dokey

you're entitled to that ... mentality ... but just don't expect me or any other sane person to buy into your notions of necessity, especially not with our time, or our lives

peace,

Namkha

 

[Guest]

I didn't say anywhere I was happy with almost half our taxes go to military - which is most likely not true - since all government spending does not originate federal from tax dollars.

Infact what I said was "And seriously - I'm sure we spend too much on military"