War

[moose eater]

Again there's no point in your vision towards peaceful consistent habitation.

Incorrect.

In a more balanced world, with international condemnation for Israel's going-on-a-century litany of war crimes, and for the (especially) US providing cover and weaponry for those crimes, the US finally realizes (AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, Samosa, The Shaw, Baby Doc, Pinochet, et al) that standing next to habitual war criminals can be costly at the average UN buffet, and the US of A slowly backs away, allowing sanctions against Israel to rise to fruition, and Palestine to be recognized as a free independent State, and Israel shrinks back to the lands they originally were granted, then there can be peace.

But it will require justice for Israel, despite the White Christian Nationalists' and Zionists' desire to see all things brown exterminated there. .

 

[Brother Nature]

Whose got the DMT.?.?.?

 

[Brother Nature]

I don't know how many of you have grown up in abusive, violent, repressive households, but existing in an environment that is constant conflicted where external issues get taken out on the innocent and mostly defenseless children makes you look at the world in a pretty fucked up way. Having to live your life on the defense and walking on egg shells everywhere you go, without ever even being the actual cause of the problem isn't the way people are supposed to exist. Apply that to millions of people in a small easily controllable place and it's not hard to see that sometimes people in those situations aren't going to act the way they should, they're going to do whatever the fuck they can to survive and protect their own. Theoretically, in a perfect world, one-up-man-ship is never the answer, but we don't live in a theoretical or perfect world and calling attention to your own plight can, sometimes, be the only way to change it. Sometimes you need to go through the worst to get better.

 

[moose eater]

I don't know how many of you have grown up in abusive, violent, repressive households, but existing in an environment that is constant conflicted where external issues get taken out on the innocent and mostly defenseless children makes you look at the world in a pretty fucked up way. Having to live your life on the defense and walking on egg shells everywhere you go, without ever even being the actual cause of the problem isn't the way people are supposed to exist. Apply that to millions of people in a small easily controllable place and it's not hard to see that sometimes people in those situations aren't going to act the way they should, they're going to do whatever the fuck they can to survive and protect their own. Theoretically, in a perfect world, one-up-man-ship is never the answer, but we don't live in a theoretical or perfect world and calling attention to your own plight can, sometimes, be the only way to change it. Sometimes you need to go through the worst to get better.

I did grow up in such a house, Brother. Maybe it shows in my posts.

Being threatened by a father who might use a strap for sneaking to the fridge at age 6 on Easter Sunday for a colored egg, and accidentally dropping it, waking him. My mother taking the beating for me.

His dumping my mother's mop bucket of water on the kitchen floor, then grabbing her by her hair and using her head literally like a mop, because she had said something he didn't like.

And neither example is the worst of those ancient images or tales.

He was a deputy sheriff and probation officer in rural Wisconsin for a time and later an Ortho drug salesman... You know which side of that tree I fell on, right?

Most who grew up in such settings can easily relate to what it was like for the Jews of Warsaw in 1940, or the Palestinians today in Gaza or the West Bank. It can take years to come around and be able to function with decisions rather than on auto-pilot, freezing at even the sound of violence, instead learning to be functional in those moments, or to see the humanity and love in the monster, when the monster is so much bigger and louder.

Therein lies my hatred for such zealots, and learned functionality, despite what once terrified me to the point of being frozen when dealing with bullies or violence. I overcame that in a number of settings where I couldn't afford to be 'frozen'..

Yes, the monster in all of us can be provoked. Self control, and the ability to identify the aggressor.....
Sometimes not so clear.

But Israel's abusive history toward Palestinians is very clear. And when the biggest most abusive motherfucker gets his clock cleaned, I admit to a sense of exhilaration as comeuppance for every person who ever had to live with such fear and oppression..

 

[Brother Nature]

I will respond in kind once I have finished my trimming, though the edibles are kicking in and this likely won't be until tomorrow... My own experiences in life as well as some of yours and others postings on this site in relation to their upbringing were what had me thinking about what I posted in regards to this most recent conflict. The similarities of imprisonment and that desire to up-rise are also another feeling I can imagine many on here are familiar with. I think understanding and support are very different things, but can elicit a lot of the same feelings in those with certain backgrounds and that is something that shouldn't be overlooked in the discussions about the worst things man can do to each other.

 

[PetePrice]

Israelis are being swept under the rug as bad guys at this point.

You can't find empathy for them unless you denounce their rights to life and liberty.

This thread is a monument.

You're a dickhead and let's be honest you clearly have a side and were all for chemical weapons being used on people, if you feel that the action of Israel right now is proportionate in anyway at all ie wiping out people especially woman and children, how many Hamas have they killed? it's genocide.. you can choose to ignore that if you like but that current Israeli government is right wing and plain evil and shown in it's actions before and after the attack.

 

[PetePrice]

Not disclosing the fact that Palestinian freedom fighters are calling for the blood of Jews.

Exactly.

Just say Zionist and forget you are saying Jew.

Do the Palestinians or Israelis ask if you are a Christian?

As aware as you would like to behave you should open your eyes.

Well some of them want the Christians gone -

Christians are in danger under Israeli government, says Holy Land patriarch

Benjamin Netanyahu’s rightwing policies are emboldening attacks on 2,000-year-old community, says Catholic regional leader

www.theguardian.com

 

[PetePrice]

Killing the bully is not solving anything but you best bet on history.

It's a hit thus far.

So we should leave Putin be then?

 

[PetePrice]

Killing begets killing.

But don't let me stop you from being entertained.

Bread and circuses.

Says the fella who was all for chemicals dropped on innocent people!!

 

[PetePrice]

I will say that the larger part of my illumination is finding out what a narrow minded bloodthirsty excuse for a human you have become.

Just like Israel hey? they even laid claim to rainwater -

The Occupation of Water

The legacy of Israel’s 50-year occupation of the Palestinian territories has been systematic human rights violations on a mass scale. One of its consequences is the impact of Israel’s discriminatory policies on Palestinians’ access to clean and safe water.

www.amnesty.org

 

[mean mr.mustard]

are the palestinians also not victims of israeli terrorism?

I don't think numbers are equivalent as value... but admit that moose had me worried.

He pointed out that the publicity was a good goal for killing innocent people and they even succeeded in their goal.

 

[PetePrice]

As are the Israelis.

You posted better than you read.

Oh I agree, some Israelis are the victims of Israel's terrorism.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I don't know how many of you have grown up in abusive, violent, repressive households, but existing in an environment that is constant conflicted where external issues get taken out on the innocent and mostly defenseless children makes you look at the world in a pretty fucked up way.

I didn't get enough traumatic brain injuries to think that innocent people deserve to die for headlines and attention.

That's called terrorism.

 

[moose eater]

I didn't get enough traumatic brain injuries to think that innocent people deserve to die for headlines and attention.

That's called terrorism.

Your view of 'terrorism' is a bit lop-sided and narrow, and you've taken liberties with my statement about the Hamas counter-offensive to the extent of creating a strawman.

I had no idea you were this invested in perpetuating torment and genocide for the Palestinians in the name of an authoritarian-enforced imbalanced definition of 'peace' that might come some day... when the Israelis and Uncle Shmuck feel good and goddamned ready.

I'll send them a message; "Mustard says just be patient and calm in the face of abuses. Someone, sometime will reach out and save you."

 

[moose eater]

I didn't get enough traumatic brain injuries to think that innocent people deserve to die for headlines and attention.

That's called terrorism.

Really? The 'good guys' simply refer to it as 'collateral damage.' Fallujah was full of such damage.

 

[moose eater]

Dahr Jamail hung out up here with some of the 'peace people' I know and knew; they're not all still around.

Other works by Mr. Dahr Jamail re. Fallujah, Iraq in general, and lots more can be found online.

He became an 'unembedded' combat journalist. In other words, not so beholding to the US or her lackeys.

Apparently he had greater convictions in that direction than he had in mountain climbing up here, which I believe he engaged in before heading to the Sand Box..

This article re., and written by, a colleague of his might provide a bit of illumination as to the attitudes of the Israeli border guards and those at check-points, their abuses, and prolific fabrications... errr, lies.

A Journalist Beaten - One Year Later

Journalists Dahr Jamail (left) and Mohammed Omer (right). (PHOTO SUPPLIED) By Mohammed Omer Agence Global June 26, 2008 is a day I will never forget. For the events of that day irrevocably changed my life. That day I was detained, interrogated, strip searched, and tortured while attempting to...

www.enewspf.com

 

[PetePrice]

Edit, just seen Cannavore already posted this....

 

[PetePrice]

More normal behaviour...

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Your view of 'terrorism' is a bit lop-sided and narrow, and you've taken liberties with my statement about the Hamas counter-offensive to the extent of creating a strawman.

You can't possibly get me to believe that.

I'm not for either side and think both sides are wrong.

If you deliver any message I intend to support and sign, maybe say something about not killing people in the hopes that people won't be killed... or pointing out that there's something hypocritical in killing for peaceful resolution...

 

[moose eater]

You can't possibly get me to believe that.

I'm not for either side and think both sides are wrong.

If you deliver any message I intend to support and sign, maybe say something about not killing people in the hopes that people won't be killed... or pointing out that there's something hypocritical in killing for peaceful resolution...

I believe the twisting of what I said is plain to anyone who possesses any serious degree of proficiency with the English language, thus, no, it's not hard to believe at all.

And your lofty view of how peace comes about in the ME leaves Palestinians being victimized daily at the leisure of the Zionist Israeli regime currently in power, as well as the American/US DoD/State Dept. military cabal.

That's reality.

Pointing to the outcome, one outcome, of October 7th, is a far cry from saying, "Hey I think you folks ought to do X, Y, or Z."

No, really.

And 10/07 put a lot of important history all over the media, worldwide.

That said, the fact is that the Israeli 'settlers' are typically as civilian as civilian gets. They just have a penchant for evicting Palestinians from their homes, and sometimes killing them, their children, etc., then either bulldozing the homes, or moving right on into them.

In that regard, I see a giant swath of 'civilians' that ought to be serving the world mo' betta' as fucking compost.

So when they're engaged in that behavior, with a wink of approval from Bibi, yeah, waste the motherfuckers. They've way more than earned it.