top of the heap to third world status in one generation

[Bobby Boucher]

No one here actually believes we're of third world status do you?

Have you seen the statistics? I encourage you to look them up for yourself. It's all rotting from the inside out.

I've actually spent 4.5 years in Guatemala, which in many ways falls under the "third world" category, so I'm aware of the difference, but statistics are showing that far less developed countries than our own are superseding us in important categories like literacy and mental/physical health by a pretty wide margin, and the larger that margin grows the harder it becomes to call ourself a 1st world country.

I read something the other day (perhaps here) about more americans living with parasitic infections than any other developed nation. My short term memory doesn't serve me too well, so as i said before, I encourage you to look the stats up yourself. Pretty mind boggling.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

Something else I've noticed, as an observer of american art in particular..

If you were born past '84, your chances of actually being articulated enough to express yourself through your medium dramatically decreases.

It's as if the new generation has some sort of low-level autism.

Like.. I was one of the smartest kids in state, being an '88 baby, and I start and end my sentences with "Like..". If you are born in America today, you are probably going to be more disadvantaged than I was.

Then again, I might just be dumber than hell, so there is that..

 

[Gry]

If I can reconnect with past memories;
1, Don't want to drink the water.
2. Prior to living there you found offensive odors bothersome, but no longer do.
3 Can't trust the local media.
4. Can't expect the local police to do more than collect revenue.
5. With money you can have or do what ever you want.
6. You know in your heart that most people don't earn squat.
7. No one expects improvement.

Might do for a starter.

 

[Malato]

Have you seen the statistics? I encourage you to look them up for yourself. It's all rotting from the inside out.

I've actually spent 4.5 years in Guatemala, which in many ways falls under the "third world" category, so I'm aware of the difference, but statistics are showing that far less developed countries than our own are superseding us in important categories like literacy and mental/physical health by a pretty wide margin, and the larger that margin grows the harder it becomes to call ourself a 1st world country.

I read something the other day (perhaps here) about more americans living with parasitic infections than any other developed nation. My short term memory doesn't serve me too well, so as i said before, I encourage you to look the stats up yourself. Pretty mind boggling.

I will look them up, i suspect though ill feel the same way about them as i do sport statistics for example it may say the Lakers offense scores more points and the defense plays better with LeBron on the bench but we all know there are underlying things that the statistics aren't capturing which would make us not fully invest in believing the stats (which i suspect you agree with since you said you know the difference?). The reason I asked is I have traveled all over central and east Africa, its just not even close. Homeless in America live better off then the poor in most second world countries let alone a true 3rd world country. Mass amounts of homeless children addicted to glue. People taking shits in the creeks that run through the slums, while kids eat poison lantana berries just because theyre so starved they rather the taste of sweetness in there mouth and deal with the aches the poison enacts on there body. Slums as big as city made of nothing but trashed materials hastily put together. And officials so corrupt you hand them money the second you get off the plane. Women farmers forced to sleep with men so the men will buy there produce to sell at market. etc etc etc

Americans and Brits complaining about living in a 3rd world country is like a Donald Trump saying the white house is a ghetto project

 

[Gry]

The comparisons with a place that is worse does squat to improve the accelerating decline anywhere.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

Ya, I've volunteered at the battered shelters, befriended a few glue heads, I've seen the worse parts of the third world. I do know the difference. To deny that there is a decay in our culture however would be kinda .. misinformed.

What makes us the greatest country, still, imo, is our contribution to the arts and sciences. 'Cept.... our country values these things less and less as time passes. So.. to take things to their logical conclusion.. we are eventually going to wind up as an entire continent of people without anything valuable to contribute.

Fwiw, all the kids I've met in Guatemala were little fuckin geniuses. Especially the disadvantaged ones. They get more real world experience by the time they are 6 than most American highschool graduates.

 

[Malato]

A decline in our education system, new super power knocking at the door and a rise in politcal violence and divisiveness is similar to another american period in history the 60s. At the same time we bettered our values systems as far as inclusion of different minority groups, we won the cold war, and revolutionized technology that brought us into the 21st century, lowered violent crime and many other things. Did we do ALOT of bad shit in between yes, but do I think we came out of the 60s as a better country definitely. And if we can keep from killing each other i think we will once more. Are educational institutions(colleges, not public schools) are still the best in the world, fake news isnt an american thing its a global one. And theres still plenty young engaged smart americans to take us into the future and lead, shit i was born in 95 #malatoforpresident2032 lol. But good discussion guys. So many of these just descend into a shit show

 

[Gry]

Often thought if we could put 10% of the pentagon budget into rebuilding infrastructure,
over a period of time, things would improve again.

 

[Malato]

Often thought if we could put 10% of the pentagon budget into rebuilding infrastructure,
over a period of time, things would improve again.

Had to look it up shit with 68 billion could definitely get alot done! Theres some crazy number i think its the top 50 richest people if they gave there yearly earnings for one year they could eliminate extreme poverty. If the rich really wanted all this status theyd do something like that. Id be so damn loyal to Amazon if Jeff Bazos just ended hunger or homelessness, which he could. Kinda crazy to think

 

[St. Phatty]

No one here actually believes we're of third world status do you?

There are no third-world nations that have also managed to con the world into using their currency as the world reserve currency.

Social degradation in the US is very different from the social degradation associated with "third world".

I would use the term "fourth world" nation to describe social degradation that is uniquely American. Our homeless people often have "more stuff" than people with homes, in other nations. It doesn't mean that our homeless people are doing better, just that they started from a wealthier starting point.

That's why I use this picture of the 700 pound 30 something man who has announced his ambition to play video games, and eat, until he dies. His ability to do that is related to the status of the American dollar as world reserve currency.

If/ when the US $ stops being the world reserve currency, gross excess such as you see in the picture will be a lot less possible.

E.g. Cuba after 1991 (when the Soviet Union collapsed). The average Cuban lost 30 pounds when the Soviets took away their financial support for Cuba.

As far as the Collapse of the US that is implied in the thread title, that is very much underway. American society in the 2010's is a shadow of what it was in the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, and even 1980's.

One question that might illustrate the point. In the 1950's, 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's, American men could afford to get their girlfriends pregnant. Even if there were complications of childbirth, e.g. a prolapsed uterus, there was hope that they could make it home with a baby, without being bankrupt.

Not any more ! American men can no longer afford - in general - to get their girlfriends pregnant.

Now we have WIERD health care situations where women with low or no income can get free health care in some states, so they can afford complications of childbirth. Then if they start earning more than $25K a year, THEN they have to start paying the obscenely high extortion prices charged by the American health care industry.

 

[vta]

G`day V

In the last two years, [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] officers made 266,000 arrests of aliens with criminal records – including those charged or convicted of 100,000 assaults, 30,000 sex crimes and 4,000 violent killings. Over the years, thousands of Americans have been brutally killed by those who illegally entered our country

There you go...that is the last time I will be responding to you. But keep up on the neg rep...it reflects well on you.

 

[Malato]

I think phatt we wont collapse we will become the UK, France, Spain etc from the list of nations that have previously dominated the world stage to being formidable players at the table. China will become our equal and very possible more but I doubt we will dissolve into the reality of life in the third world. I will say in my opinion the homeless do have it better here there lives are better etc because they have choices and opportunities a homeless child in the third world would dream of. I get your point life is relative. They are experience what they believe is the low of low but they're looking at the world with shade covered eyes. And I'm a early 20 something year old dad my friend politically engaged, paid mortgage, good cars and a 2 year old child who isn't getting any government help. Have faith in us youngsters we'll hold down the country!

 

[Brother Nature]

That's a very interesting view point Phatty and seemingly very inline with the social cycle theory, which states that the stages and events of societies are generally repeated in cycles with small differences in each iteration. It's something I've been reading into a bit lately and I think you're on to something there. If you look at all the greatest societies in history, none are around today or if they are they are shadows of their greatness. The Mayans were able to perform brain surgery as well as other amazing feats that are still difficult in our modern world, but they none-the-less perished. The Egyptians, Chinese dynasties, the mongols, Greeks, Romans, etc... have all been the top of the food chain at one time or another in history yet all fall way behind the western world currently.


At the beginning of this thread I thought the idea of America being third world was preposterous, and while I don't think it's third world in the way we think of third world, I do believe the western world is starting to slide downwards from it's peak. That's not to say there hasn't been astronomical levels of social progress in the meantime, but perhaps it's another societies time to rise.


There are some people who have recently developed some mathematical models for this theory and I think a lot of these are being seen in Western Culture as a whole, not just America. The logic to these models is as follows;


After the population reaches the ceiling of the carrying capacity of land, its growth rate declines toward near-zero values.


The system experiences significant stress with decline in the living standards of the common population, increasing the severity of famines, growing rebellions etc.



As has been shown by Nefedov, most complex agrarian systems had considerable reserves for stability, however, within 50–150 years these reserves were usually exhausted and the system experienced a demographic collapse (a Malthusian catastrophe), when increasingly severe famines, epidemics, increasing internal warfare and other disasters led to a considerable decline of population.



As a result of this collapse, free resources became available, per capita production and consumption considerably increased, the population growth resumed and a new sociodemographic cycle started.



A lot of these ideas originated from Chinese philosophies, specifically the historian Sima Qian and it seems to me that current Eastern society pays a bit more attention to these theories than Westerners and that seems to be evidenced by their meteoric rise over the last few decades. It's a lot like the the concept of Ouroboros.




I like the way this thread has gone, doesn't seem to be any pissing competitions here just good ole discussion.

 

[Elmer Bud]

There you go...that is the last time I will be responding to you. But keep up on the neg rep...it reflects well on you.

G `day V

What percentage of the people arrested with criminal records were people who had criminal records from being convicted of border crossing previously ?

You might be surprised .

By the way what`s the source of your information you quoted ?
Posting stuff that suits your argument with no references .
The kids call that weak sauce .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[St. Phatty]

OK, so I'm watching "Slither" in the background, so if I SCREAM, you'll know why

I think part of the devolution of the US is the attempted but failed integration of technology, e.g. to automate customer service or a stop-light. And then people totally blowing it, and not having the courage to criticize & fix it.

Short version, 3 example -
* Umpqua Bank online customer service.
It's taking 3 work sessions, 2 of them involving the branch manager, simply to get me a password for my account.
1 hour+ of manager & teller time. Obviously not a crisis. Pretty damn entertaining. All that time, not for a big task - it's just to get me my password.

* Local intersection where 50% of the drivers in both directions think they have the right of way, for about 15 seconds out of each 3 minute traffic cycle. That's a problem, when the drivers are going 60 miles per hour.

So the stoplights act as if they are on commission at the local hospital and auto body shop.

Once every 3 months, there is a serious T-Bone or head-on collision.

Once a year, a fatal one. All because city management is too chicken to admit their traffic people made a mistake.

Lots of $$ there for the local hospital and body shops.


* F22. The US Air Force lost 22 of them during Hurricane Michael, because they could not be flown to safety.

How would you feel if you paid $330 Million for an airplane and it was too complicated to fix in a clutch situation ? Well, if you're an American tax-payer or bond-holder, you did pay $330 Million for just such an airplane.

Long story short, people are spending lots of money on technology, and not closing the loop, and so getting shit for results.

In the case of the F22, that involved firing Bob, a co-worker who I also knew from the gym, who was the Senior Test Engineer for Quality Control. He was fired because in 1998 he told the Senior Digital Design guy that his F22 radio could not be tested.

That they fired Bob, is directly related to those 22 dead F22's.

Now these are just short examples cause I want to watch TV.


Multiply those 3 brief examples by 1000

then mix in the state of American health care

and it's not a pretty picture.


That's not a problem

\/ THIS is a problem !

 

[Malato]

Dam phat looks like he needs some health care. I'm no doc but I'd say it's definitely cancer haha

 

[siftedunity]

Fwiw, all the kids I've met in Guatemala were little fuckin geniuses. Especially the disadvantaged ones. They get more real world experience by the time they are 6 than most American highschool graduates.

They probably value education so much more because they are far more eager to get out of poverty. in the western world we have the freedom to be a photographer or artist (drop out ..jk) and still make a living..
and how come they were geniuses with no access to good quality education??

kids with world experience at 6yrs is kinda worrying. and kinda sad.
I'm not sure about your comments about people born after 1984..
technology is advancing at a pretty amazing rate, its not just old men inventing the microprocessors of tomorrow. its just most likely that most people are happy to be underachievers in rich countries because they have that liberty.
every generation sees the next as weak and feeble. kinda how all the old folk say how great it was in their day.. when they washed in a tin bath and had no electricity.
none of these things are generational. if anything the general population are probably more ignorant and uneducated as you go further back in time rather than forwards.

 

[siftedunity]

That's a very interesting view point Phatty and seemingly very inline with the social cycle theory, which states that the stages and events of societies are generally repeated in cycles with small differences in each iteration. It's something I've been reading into a bit lately and I think you're on to something there. If you look at all the greatest societies in history, none are around today or if they are they are shadows of their greatness. The Mayans were able to perform brain surgery as well as other amazing feats that are still difficult in our modern world, but they none-the-less perished. The Egyptians, Chinese dynasties, the mongols, Greeks, Romans, etc... have all been the top of the food chain at one time or another in history yet all fall way behind the western world currently.


:

But then you could look at it this way, each of those civilisations brought things that made our human society evolve. I was just watching a documentary about the Phoenicians and the invention of the alphabet. the society didn't last but their alphabet did. maybe the legacy is more important over all? so therefore still kind of live on.
the Romans had an amazing society, conquered most of the world and spread its culture far and wide for example. even though the roman society or empire itself actually declined. it wasn't like all these societies died out then we started from scratch, its all been a constant evolution.

 

[Gry]

We about to see a national emergency declared ?

 

[Malato]

Build the wall!!!