The traitor within?

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I agree, best have it out in the open and discuss the problems......it can only lead to greater understanding all round, so long as members are respectful of each other.

You don't solve problems by sweeping them under the carpet and pretending that they don't exist, and there is more than one side to any argument, so best to hear it out.....whatever it is.

People always get super-passionate over race issues. We are all one race THE HUMAN RACE, but we are still tribal so will continue to fight amongst each other over ethnicity/nationality/politics/religion (and a bunch of other stuff).....Only by talking about it and trying to evolve socially past this tribal stage can we overcome our differences. Communication and education on these matters are essential particularly for the next generations, if things are going to improve at all.

Well I hope you stick around and help enlighten some folks. Race may be an illusion to some degree but racism and cultural divide are quite real. At least with open discussion you get to see where everyone really stands...

 

[Rodehazrd]

In this world of alternate facts and emboldened bully's I don't think an opinion supported by science can win over one supported by emotion.People just get it when they get it. If you feel somewhat better having someone to look down on and feel you have power over then there's still a hole in your soul that needs to be healed.

Here are the facts

Its us or them and by the way there's no them.

 

[gaiusmarius]

I just saw this on instagram and thought it was an interesting read. I wonder of stuff like this contributes to the hatred and distrust of law enforcement? As a Black man myself there are plenty of small towns I wouldn't feel safe in that are all white towns. Only difference is that if I something were to happen to me in one of those towns the crime would most likely never get solved.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-jon-burge-dead-20180919-story.html

I just joined this site but am really thinking about heading back to RIU. The open racism allowed on here is unbelievable. I saw the other thread where members were openly discussing race and IQ, disgusting to say the least

the way to defeat bad arguments is with good arguments, not by running away. if people like you all run away from the debate, you leave the stage to those that you disagree with. this site is involved in an experiment with free speech, real free speech, you should be happy we are fighting back against the censorship slowly taking over the internet. just because people are allowed to express their opinions doesn't mean every member agrees with said opinion.

in the end no one is forced to read threads they don't like

there are probably a thousand more just like you who have not bothered to join the site and write that.

and a thousand more former members who have left the site for the same reasons.

if thats true its sad, why would allowing free speech make people leave? isn't it better to know where people stand? yes it leads to some uncomfortable situations, but it leads to some very interesting discussions too.

 

[CaptainDankness]

I just saw this on instagram and thought it was an interesting read. I wonder of stuff like this contributes to the hatred and distrust of law enforcement? As a Black man myself there are plenty of small towns I wouldn't feel safe in that are all white towns. Only difference is that if I something were to happen to me in one of those towns the crime would most likely never get solved.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-jon-burge-dead-20180919-story.html

I just joined this site but am really thinking about heading back to RIU. The open racism allowed on here is unbelievable. I saw the other thread where members were openly discussing race and IQ, disgusting to say the least

I certainly didn't make up the race and IQ test, of course I did suggest that may be why black people are more poor and commit more crimes. Certainly not because they ain't white, as Asians do better than white people, they commit less crime and make more money while scoring the highest on IQ. It's not racist if it's true IMO I'm not an Asian supremacist. Lol

. United States test scores
Main article: Achievement gap in the United States
In the United States, individuals identifying themselves as Asian tend to have higher average IQ scores than do Caucasians, who, in turn, have higher average IQs than African Americans. Nevertheless, greater variation in IQ scores exists within each ethnic group than between them.[46]

Rushton & Jensen (2005) wrote that, in the United States, self-identified blacks and whites have been the subjects of the greatest number of studies. They stated that the black-white IQ difference is about 15 to 18 points or 1 to 1.1 standard deviations (SDs), which implies that between 11 and 16 percent of the black population have an IQ above 100 (the general population median). According to Arthur Jensen and J. Philippe Rushton the black-white IQ difference is largest on those components of IQ tests that are claimed best to represent the general intelligence factor g.[47]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

Of course it's not saying there are no smart black people, some are clearly pretty damn smart like Neil deGrasse Tyson and Ben Carson off the top of my head.

Seems the left is always screaming racism about poor black people, but if white people were really that bad wouldn't we do something about Asians making more money than white people?

Is it really racist that black people commit more crime? I don't think so, but facts are somehow racist. Of course I'd also be called transphobic since I know transgenders have a serious mental illness.

 

[packerfan79]

I just saw this on instagram and thought it was an interesting read. I wonder of stuff like this contributes to the hatred and distrust of law enforcement? As a Black man myself there are plenty of small towns I wouldn't feel safe in that are all white towns. Only difference is that if I something were to happen to me in one of those towns the crime would most likely never get solved.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-jon-burge-dead-20180919-story.html

I just joined this site but am really thinking about heading back to RIU. The open racism allowed on here is unbelievable. I saw the other thread where members were openly discussing race and IQ, disgusting to say the least

Just because someone disagrees with you that doesn't make it racist. You have the same right to speak as the rest of us.

The race and IQ issue isn't disgusting. It's something that can't be changed through discussion. Their are smart and stupid people of every race. Their are good and bad people of every race. I advocate for equal opportunity for all people regardless of race. I advocate for all people to have a quality education no matter the race.

 

[packerfan79]

First off, I am not a fucking Democrat so please stop it with the partisan jabs. I have no interest in that.

Secondly, I never said all the information that exists should be thrown out. Find where I said that and quote it.

Again you are dodging the question. How do you make such concrete statements when such a significant percentage of the incidences are unresolved? Just address the question at hand and stop trying to redirect. You are making statements that you can't possibly back up as settled fact unless you do in fact have a magical scrying device of some kind. You can infer whatever you want from available information, but unless you can prove to me how you know it to be "fact" then I call bullshit on it. You can't prove to me that black people "commit more crime" because the available facts do not say that, and moreover the lack of stats for half or more of the crimes makes it statistically impossible to make accurate conclusions on that. The notion that blacks "commit more crime" is absolutely provably false. Its not even actually clear if they commit disproportionate amounts of crime, but its very clear they do not "commit more crime". Even the available conviction rates prove your statement to be total fantasy. Maybe you're trying to say "disproportionate", but that isn't what you said. What magic power enables you to make claims that even the Department of Justice is not able to make?

How is it "very clear they do not commit more crime"? By your subjective opinion? Or do you have research to back it up? Many respected Universities study crime statistics, not just the DOJ. are those studies also unusable?

The definition of disproportionate is. too big or to small in comparison to something else. In other words the black race commits bigger amount of crime compared to other races. While this is a shame, it doesn't make blacks less valuable, as individuals every person has the capacity to be great or terrible. It's a personal choice. That choice may be affected by environmental factors.

By the way I am not taking partisan jabs at you. I personally don't belong to a political party. I was just stating a fact most inner cities are run by Democrats. Those inner cities have demonstrated no measurable change in 50+ years of democratic party rule. If we are going to discuss the subject, then the ruling Democrats failure would have to be part of it. I attribute more to your intelligence than to imply you would be a Democrat. I may be conservative/ libertarian leaning I am not a monolithic party line person.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

How is it "very clear they do not commit more crime"? By your subjective opinion? Or do you have research to back it up? Many respected Universities study crime statistics, not just the DOJ. are those studies also unusable?

The definition of disproportionate is. too big or to small in comparison to something else. In other words the black race commits bigger amount of crime compared to other races. While this is a shame, it doesn't make blacks less valuable, as individuals every person has the capacity to be great or terrible. It's a personal choice. That choice may be affected by environmental factors.

Why in some citys are the worst parts of town mostly black and in others its white? It has to do with your environment. The more generations of poor criiminals surrounding you the harder it is to escape. Any area that is predominantly low income also usually lack good schools, groceries and health care. And usually gets bigger every year.

Also does not help kids when the hard working good people of the neighborhood never their because they work. What they do see is that local criminals can afford better everything. So they grow up wanting a car with big rims more than a full time career and good credit. So the problem gets worse.

Blaming on sides is dumb and only makes sense if you are on the side making changes to improve.

 

[Klompen]

How is it "very clear they do not commit more crime"? By your subjective opinion? Or do you have research to back it up? Many respected Universities study crime statistics, not just the DOJ. are those studies also unusable?

Again, for the thousandth time: The data is not useless or wrong. Its incomplete. Just like if all you could see of a house is the inside of the fireplace, you would be correct to say that all that you can see is on fire. What you would not be in a position to know is if the rest of the house was burning or not. What part of this is not clear?

The definition of disproportionate is. too big or to small in comparison to something else. In other words the black race commits bigger amount of crime compared to other races. While this is a shame, it doesn't make blacks less valuable, as individuals every person has the capacity to be great or terrible. It's a personal choice. That choice may be affected by environmental factors.

No that is not the entire concept. Disproportionate means out of proportion to something else but also relative to itself. So a person with dwarfism who lets out farts that are smaller than those of the average full size person is still farting disproportionately to their size, but still letting out less gas than a full size person. Get it?

Blacks do not commit more crime total. They may commit more crime per capita, but even that is not something you can state conclusively with the available data. You can only make calculated assumptions at best. Statistical sampling can be quite accurate or completely misleading depending on a huge variety of factors ranging from researcher bias to pure bad luck. Lets say you do a phone study where you randomly call 10,000 people, but you tend to not get a truly random sampling because your parent company sent you a call list they were hoping would provide certain results, or perhaps only certain types of people agree to do the survey. There's so many factors that can screw up statistics, and lacking half the data on the subject is a pretty serious factor.

 

[packerfan79]

Why in some citys are the worst parts of town mostly black and in others its white? It has to do with your environment. The more generations of poor criiminals surrounding you the harder it is to escape. Any area that is predominantly low income also usually lack good schools, groceries and health care. And usually gets bigger every year.

Also does not help kids when the hard working good people of the neighborhood never their because they work. What they do see is that local criminals can afford better everything. So they grow up wanting a car with big rims more than a full time career and good credit. So the problem gets worse.

Blaming on sides is dumb and only makes sense if you are on the side making changes to improve.

Their are shitty people of every race. Ultimately we have a problem with culture. It's cool to be a thug. It's generational in most cases. Once hard work is seen as cool, then things will change. Neither you or I can magically make people want to work, instead of joining a gang.

Here's a really good way to improve the education of disadvantaged people of all colors. Institute school vouchers. Let the shitty schools die. The local politicians should be demanding school choice. Unfortunately those politicians are bought and paid for by the teachers unions. The same unions make it virtually impossible to get rid of shitty teachers. I commend Labron for starting a school for the kids of L.A. some Republicans have claimed he shouldn't get credit because he only funded 2 of the 8 million spent, I think that's complete bullshit. He did something to make a difference. He should be commended, and he should be calling on other athletes to give back to the communities they came from.

What solutions do you have to improve the education system?

Please don't claim that more money is the solution. California spends drastically more on education, and gets little to no improvement over other states . Education in California has lead to our students being dead last.

California Universities have a major problem. Most students have to take remedial classes in college because they didn't receive a quality education. This isn't any particular race it's every race. It's systematic. It's gotten so bad, that the only solution the Universities can come up with is to remove the word remedial. In California the solution to problems is censorship. Head in the sand policies.

 

[Klompen]

I certainly didn't make up the race and IQ test, of course I did suggest that may be why black people are more poor and commit more crimes. Certainly not because they ain't white, as Asians do better than white people, they commit less crime and make more money while scoring the highest on IQ. It's not racist if it's true IMO I'm not an Asian supremacist. Lol

There has been research that has strongly suggested that IQ is negatively impacted by lack of opportunity and class structures. Rather than low IQ being the cause of poverty; its the consequence of it. This is most starkly seen in the USA, which is one of the most inequitable and stratified societies in the entire modernized world. We have by far the largest prison population, by far the worst health care system, and by far the largest wealth gap. Despite the founding rhetoric of this country, the notion of aristocracy has been thriving here since day one and is only getting much worse. There's over 560 billionaires in this country and any one of them could fix the pipes in Flint Michigan and still be a billionaire after they were done. Those same pipes are delivering leaded water to the poorest of homes and not the wealthier neighborhoods. Think about that.

Of course it's not saying there are no smart black people, some are clearly pretty damn smart like Neil deGrasse Tyson and Ben Carson off the top of my head.

Seems the left is always screaming racism about poor black people, but if white people were really that bad wouldn't we do something about Asians making more money than white people?

Is it really racist that black people commit more crime? I don't think so, but facts are somehow racist. Of course I'd also be called transphobic since I know transgenders have a serious mental illness.

Asians and Jews tend to do so well because they support their youth as they enter adulthood. Often as a community they create opportunities for each other and in the case of Jews they provide financial support via the Mitzvah. Indian families that I have known help find each other jobs and if one owns a hotel they tend to hire the children of their friends and family. If one of them can't afford college they work together to make it happen and they don't charge them a bunch of interest like the way the American financial aid system does. Instead of the predatory view that the next generation exists to exploit, their cultures treat them as the future and help make that dream a reality.

Also, while one may make the argument that transgender people have abnormal psychology, you do not "know" they have serious mental illness. We have a very twisted view of serious mental illness in this country. We tend to view deviance and lack of functionality as the only yardsticks of mental wellness, while completely ignoring psychopathy, pedophilia, and kleptomania in people who are productive and highly placed in society. I do know some pretty messed up trans people, but I also have found the majority of them to be very kind people who just haven't been treated very well in life.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

This topic got me looking for statistics on the subject - whether you or I believe in those statistics is another matter - but apparently statistics are out there - and the UK government Ministry of Justice publishes a paper/report on this every couple of years.

Statistics on Race and the Criminal
Justice System 2016
A Ministry of Justice publication under Section 95
of the Criminal Justice Act 1991

*Its a bloody long read, 113 pages long, and I got part way thru it before all these statistics and graphs made me dizzy.....I guess that without reading the whole thing you can't make assumptions, just looks like a lot of crime going on whoever is committing it.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...e_and_the_criminal_justice_system_2016_v2.pdf

it comes from this main-link : https://data.gov.uk/dataset/1a63da8...4852e7e5/race-and-the-criminal-justice-system

*Looks like the government spends quite a few quid to put all that together, maybe its incomplete, maybe its skewed or has some agenda? - seems like there is a lot of interest in it or they wouldn't bother.

 

[Klompen]

Also, if you ever wondered why black folks have struggled so hard to advance, maybe you need to do a little historical research. I don't know if any of you are aware of this, but black folks have been repeatedly kicked while they were down, and attempts to rise up were often met with extreme violence.

At one point in Oklahoma, blacks actually did create a solid economy and a higher degree of affluence, and then they were murdered for it by massive mobs of white folks lead by the Klan. Hundreds died, and the heart of their legitimate economy was trashed. So if black folks have had to turn to crime it certainly isn't because they haven't tried to go legit.

https://officialblackwallstreet.com/black-wall-street-story/

 

[packerfan79]

Is anyone actually going to address school vouchers?

Or the failure of democratic party rule of the inner cities?

Hello is anybody out their? No way to argue against it?

 

[Klompen]

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party have both been mismanaging this country on behalf of their mutual donor base who are mostly kleptocrats trying to squeeze every bit of life out of this country. Democrats take their base for granted because the opposition is so unacceptable that people feel forced to go to them(especially black voters). Its called "controlled opposition", and its at the heart of how the two-party system has crushed democracy and left us with a system that does what the rich say and barely even notices what the poor want or need.

 

[packerfan79]

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party have both been mismanaging this country on behalf of their mutual donor base who are mostly kleptocrats trying to squeeze every bit of life out of this country. Democrats take their base for granted because the opposition is so unacceptable that people feel forced to go to them(especially black voters). Its called "controlled opposition", and its at the heart of how the two-party system has crushed democracy and left us with a system that does what the rich say and barely even notices what the poor want or need.

So your going to ignore the questions? Come on bro you can do better. All you have to do is say yes school vouchers can make a difference. You don't have to endorse a particular party. If we want change it starts with all of us. It's almost like you don't want change, but that you just want to have the issue to demonize a political party.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

If we all trace back our family lineages some generations, many of our ancestors were probably kicked and suppressed, enslaved and often murdered in crazy wars and under crazy laws. Many of the Irish and other nationalities that first came to settle in the USA were there under indentured servitude - which is a form of slavery, and over history millions of people of just about all nations have had to suffer as slaves, or as a lower class or caste, its not only darker humans that have had this problem - historically its not racially specific, but is still going on to this day primarily amongst Africans and Arabs in countries like Libya and other African/Middle Eastern states -

There is still a slave trade in 2018, which is a terrible thing to realize since the UK supposedly abolished slavery in 1833.

 

[packerfan79]

If we all trace back our family lineages some generations, many of our ancestors were probably kicked and suppressed, enslaved and often murdered in crazy wars and under crazy laws. Many of the Irish and other nationalities that first came to settle in the USA were there under indentured servitude - which is a form of slavery, and over history millions of people of just about all nations have had to suffer as slaves, or as a lower class or caste, its not only darker humans that have had this problem - historically its not racially specific, but is still going on to this day primarily amongst Africans and Arabs in countries like Libya and other African/Middle Eastern states -

There is still a slave trade in 2018, which is a terrible thing to realize since the UK supposedly abolished slavery in 1833.

But American is to blame for slavery, right? In reality some Americans were slaves holders. Other Americans went to war to stop it.

I am so sick of America being blamed for every Ill ever committed. I never owned a slave. Neither did my parents, grand parents, great grand parents. No living American did.Considering less than 10 percent of slaves came to America their is plenty of blame to go around. The vast majority of Slaves went to south America. Did Brazil have a civil war to stop slavery? Nope just America. When you blame America for the ills of slavery, you spit on the graves of the men who fought and died to stop slavery.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

In the old, old south, the white European indentured servants were used to clear the malaria ridden bottomlands because the mortality was so high on this job. Black slaves were saved for other less life threatening tasks because they were valuable property.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Actually the time period that the 'New World'....or 'The Americas' were using slaves stretches far beyond the relatively short time slavery was legal and practiced within the USA ....The Aztecs and the Incas had slaves, and the Mogul (Islamic) Empire took slaves by the millions in India and elsewhere over several hundred years...

There is a lot of, eh, what looks like self-loathing over slavery in some western countries due to their histories being linked with it in some way or other. Since it was so widespread in the past it was kinda hard not to be linked with it in some way for most nations.

All we can hope to do with the past is learn from it, and not repeat the same mistakes.

But American is to blame for slavery, right? In reality some Americans were slaves holders. Other Americans went to war to stop it.

I am so sick of America being blamed for every Ill ever committed. I never owned a slave. Neither did my parents, grand parents, great grand parents. No living American did.Considering less than 10 percent of slaves came to America their is plenty of blame to go around. The vast majority of Slaves went to south America. Did Brazil have a civil war to stop slavery? Nope just America. When you blame America for the ills of slavery, you spit on the graves of the men who fought and died to stop slavery.

 

[theJointedOne]

school vouchers lol yea right..more divisiveness...pretty soon you'll be promoting gerrymandering