The Search for Trip Weed

[EnjoyingLife]

I'd rather not mention any examples as others may like the particular strains. I mainly mean too far stable/tame and a little distant from the parents which can narrow your ability to search for the pheno you want. Some may see this as a plus if they're not into breeding and selection, just as some people like fems or autos. I was just pointing out that I'm not a "fanboy" and there are genuine keepers in the GT
It may also be my growing ability, but it's just my opinion of the selection I've grown and sampled
I should point out that older, less blended strains excite me more and some of their newer old strains look quite enticing

" I mainly mean too far stable/tame and a little distant from the parents which can narrow your ability to search for the pheno you want". That makes sense to me.
I was asking to see if any of the strains I have from them meet that criteria =]

 

[ThaiBliss]

i reckon shes pretty much done

...in more ways than one. LOL

Thanks sir. I appreciate the input.

I see it fading fast. I swear I noticed a difference between yesterday and today. I see that tomorrow only has a 78% chance of rain, the lowest percentage in the next 5 days. I'll bring her out into the full uncovered sun tomorrow morning, and chop when the clouds start rolling in.

I found some mold on the reveg plant. My heart is broken. Just a few weeks away from the transition to the dry season.

 

[ThaiBliss]

I cut the volunteer plant just now. When I bumped against it, a pungent lemon smell arose. Strange that I don't remember really ever sensing that. I hope I can find some buds that aren't moldy. I'm going to have to trim it closely. It was worth a go.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Greetings,

Things are going well with my starts this year. I had more seeds sprout than I needed, so I culled a few of the fatter leaved and less pungent ones. The ones I have left have more of concentrated citrus aroma, and a couple have an added strong spicy smell. Much better than last year. I have more plants, and they are much bigger compared to this time last year.

They were put out months earlier this year. This is causing some dificulties given that it is still raining cats and dogs. They are in dire need of repotting again. They are showing root bound symptoms. I'll cut back the two males I selected for breeding. That one super male gargantuan plant is 4 foot 4 inches tall. I'll cut it in half or less. Some pictures before I cut and repot.

Here were my starts at this date last year. Hahaha.

I think I might be starting to get the hang of it here.

I have to give credit to a few people that helped me out. Two specifically are:

Donald Mallard
Verdant Whisperer

Thanks so much for all your advice.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Good Morning,

It has been more than 6 months since I harvested last year's plant #2. A couple of days ago I gave it a test. I held off because I didn't want to be disapointed if it wasn't very good because it hadn't cured enough. It wasn't anything special, in my opinion. It is a touch better than plant #1, but considering the reputation of the lineage, it's a letdown. I will say that it has a decent nose. It has sharp lemon, a pinch of spice, with a bit of solvent aroma. The good part was that the high lasted a good while, with the high seeming to improve in quality after an hour. It got clearer as the high blossomed.

I still have some seeds to look through. I heard Kangativa looked through 30 plants before finding an exceptional Gypsy Nirvana Thai Stick. I'm not giving up. It seems I'm "in the ballpark" with these genes as far as morphology, terpene bouquet, etc.

One trait I very much appreciate is that it takes these plants 6 months to flower. Ha! It's hard to imagine that I'd ever think that, but it seems the best scenario in this climate. This year's plants are much bigger and earlier than last year's. But now I'm concerned that they are at a stage where they might not grow as large as last year's. I guess I always have to worry about something.

I'm hoping that they fill out the pots that they are in and need to be repotted into the bigger pots I used last year.

The big difference between last year is that the weather was much better for the early growth phase. Here are a couple of pics of this year's flowers on the apical meristems.

Cheers

 

[Knop]

Good Morning,

It has been more than 6 months since I harvested last year's plant #2. A couple of days ago I gave it a test. I held off because I didn't want to be disapointed if it wasn't very good because it hadn't cured enough. It wasn't anything special, in my opinion. It is a touch better than plant #1, but considering the reputation of the lineage, it's a letdown. I will say that it has a decent nose. It has sharp lemon, a pinch of spice, with a bit of solvent aroma. The good part was that the high lasted a good while, with the high seeming to improve in quality after an hour. It got clearer as the high blossomed.

I still have some seeds to look through. I heard Kangativa looked through 30 plants before finding an exceptional Gypsy Nirvana Thai Stick. I'm not giving up. It seems I'm "in the ballpark" with these genes as far as morphology, terpene bouquet, etc.

One trait I very much appreciate is that it takes these plants 6 months to flower. Ha! It's hard to imagine that I'd ever think that, but it seems the best scenario in this climate. This year's plants are much bigger and earlier than last year's. But now I'm concerned that they are at a stage where they might not grow as large as last year's. I guess I always have to worry about something.

I'm hoping that they fill out the pots that they are in and need to be repotted into the bigger pots I used last year.

The big difference between last year is that the weather was much better for the early growth phase. Here are a couple of pics of this year's flowers on the apical meristems.

View attachment 19086253 View attachment 19086252

Cheers

@MadMac has thaistick gypsy nirvana seeds, it would be cool to see you growing them.

 

[ThaiBliss]

@MadMac has thaistick gypsy nirvana seeds, it would be cool to see you growing them.

I'm working on some tiger tail seeds from Thailand and Burmese seeds from TRSC. If successful, things will stay interesting here.

In the meantime, some friends back in the States are still appreciating my old northern line. They did well this year.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Greetings Searchers,

I've had a development in the terpene profiles of this year's plants. I obsess over these types of details. I'm a strong believer in the "entourage effect". I try to match the high I like with terpene and cannabinoid profiles. I've noticed some things. Maybe the most important is zero or near zero CBD. Interesting cannabinoids are THCV, and CBG. A short list of some of my favorite terpenes are pinene, limonene, menthol, black pepper, other spicy aromas, metalic, and a category I describe as a solvent aroma, i.e. turpentine, kerosene, etc. Hmm... menthol might actually fit into this category. I don't remember all the terpene names for these because I don't have to. My nose remembers the smell.

All this is to report that one of my plants has a menthol aroma. I was rubbing stems and I smelled it. It wasn't a little, it was substancial. I'm overjoyed to have a plant with a lemon menthol spicy aroma. This is different than any other of the more than a dozen other plants from this GNTS x (NH21 x MM) cross I've been testing.

A couple of all time great heirloom strains that have a menthol aroma are S.E. Asian (Thai Laos). My current northern line has it. I know one ancestor that it came from was definately Trainwreck (Thai Mexican Afghani). I specualate that it also came from related terpenes in other outcrosses.

One weed of the mentholated type that particularly stands out was the old school Hawaiian. The ones I had were strongly menthol smelling. I spoke with an elderly Hawaiin gentleman who told tales of the great pre-indica lines growing in Hawaii. They were Laos, Thai, and African Swazi. The old dude, maybe over 80 years at the time a decade ago, got a twinkle in his eye speaking of them.

If that young plant with the menthol aroma is a keeper in terms of potency and quality effect, it will be a great cross to my Oregon line, pictured in the previous post above, that has menthol aromas develop as the buds mature. Judging by what I know right now, I have two plants that I probably should get cuttings from, this menthol GNTS x (NH21 x MM), and the especially pungent male plant of my Oregon line.

Thanks for suffering my obsessive analysis of my grow and search for strong, cerebral, energetic, (trip) weed.

All the Best

 

[ThaiBliss]

Greetings,

It's amazing the difference a week can make. I'm also impressed by how much factors other than number of night time hours have an affect in this near equator environment. For instance, changes in weather, fertilizer regiment, etc. are being noticed more. A week ago, I was concerned my plants wouldn't get as big as last year. I boosted the nitrogen in my waterings a touch, and we got a couple of days where it wasn't cloudy starting mid morning. The plants shot up with the extra sun.

Here is a pic of the group:

Here is a pic of an early favorite because of the strength of the aroma, and the spicy smell. All the GNTS x (NH21 x MM) have a citrus bite, so I only mention the extra aromas. This one below is flowering quicker than the others, and is also stacked up a bit. Not really desirable traits in this very wet humid environment. The longer flowering, the more chance that they get big. The more spread out the buds are, the less likely mold forms.

I harvested the wet season plant and 90% of the buds were moldy. Ugh. The buds that didn't touch other buds were 10x less likely to be moldy. Those buds got a dominant minty aroma as they dried. Looking forward to testing those. I digress.

These are pics of an early favorite due to having the skinniest leaves and spicy aroma. But it is also flowering pretty quickly.

This next plant is my current favorite. It has the menthol aroma. Yay! It has the most vigorous growth and the biggest leaves of the females. The flower development is much slower than all the rest. I'm liking this plant! I hope it's branches start growing more.

 

[bibi40]

Greetings Searchers,

I've had a development in the terpene profiles of this year's plants. I obsess over these types of details. I'm a strong believer in the "entourage effect". I try to match the high I like with terpene and cannabinoid profiles. I've noticed some things. Maybe the most important is zero or near zero CBD. Interesting cannabinoids are THCV, and CBG. A short list of some of my favorite terpenes are pinene, limonene, menthol, black pepper, other spicy aromas, metalic, and a category I describe as a solvent aroma, i.e. turpentine, kerosene, etc. Hmm... menthol might actually fit into this category. I don't remember all the terpene names for these because I don't have to. My nose remembers the smell.

All this is to report that one of my plants has a menthol aroma. I was rubbing stems and I smelled it. It wasn't a little, it was substancial. I'm overjoyed to have a plant with a lemon menthol spicy aroma. This is different than any other of the more than a dozen other plants from this GNTS x (NH21 x MM) cross I've been testing.

A couple of all time great heirloom strains that have a menthol aroma are S.E. Asian (Thai Laos). My current northern line has it. I know one ancestor that it came from was definately Trainwreck (Thai Mexican Afghani). I specualate that it also came from related terpenes in other outcrosses.

One weed of the mentholated type that particularly stands out was the old school Hawaiian. The ones I had were strongly menthol smelling. I spoke with an elderly Hawaiin gentleman who told tales of the great pre-indica lines growing in Hawaii. They were Laos, Thai, and African Swazi. The old dude, maybe over 80 years at the time a decade ago, got a twinkle in his eye speaking of them.

If that young plant with the menthol aroma is a keeper in terms of potency and quality effect, it will be a great cross to my Oregon line, pictured in the previous post above, that has menthol aromas develop as the buds mature. Judging by what I know right now, I have two plants that I probably should get cuttings from, this menthol GNTS x (NH21 x MM), and the especially pungent male plant of my Oregon line.

Thanks for suffering my obsessive analysis of my grow and search for strong, cerebral, energetic, (trip) weed.

All the Best

A menthol-eucalyptus thing would be certainly very good !!!

 

[ThaiBliss]

I grew three plants from what I have been working on up north for a very long time. Two of the plants, one male and one female look typical for the line. They stink to high heaven with wonderful and complex aromas. I'm very happy with them. The third plant, a female, is a dwarf, low, wide, little bush with almost no aroma. It looks like a total reject, the first I've seen in a few generations. On the other hand, I often want to see the freak phenos play out. One never knows if it might be a freakishly strong pheno.

The good female is going to be a nice test of the difference when growing in a higher UV environment. It's significantly higher in altitude, and way closer to the equator. Muhahaha!

Here is a picture of the beautiful, pungent female. The male has been chopped back and isn't photogenic, so... no pictures of him. But it's worth noting that he has the full specturm of stanky, dank, dank aromas. The female has a wide spectrum of terpenes, but less mrycene than the male. I can't wait to have bud that I know has excellent quality, and good potency. This line has been very cerebral, happy, energetic, and zilch couch-lock. It's been a while for me.

More than anything, I'm hoping for a good batch of seeds from this baby.

All the Best

 

[ThaiBliss]

A menthol-eucalyptus thing would be certainly very good !!!

By the way, my northern line has that as well. Love that stuff.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Greetings,

It is slowly dawning on me that the best genetics to grow this close to the equator are Thai and similar strains. Most of the plants from the GNTS (NH21 x MM) are flowering much too quickly. I have one male and one female that are lagging significantly, allowing them to have a chance to grow more than 2 meters tall. The rest are going to be sea of green midget types. Because the daylength is never more than 12.75 hours and daylight hours change so slowly, most plants just start flowering pretty quickly. Damned hybrids are the bane of my existence.

This is very different than at 42° north. I could start plants, any plants, in late December, the shortest day of the year (9 hours), and they wouldn't start flowering because daylight hours were increasing rapidly. This allowed me to grow huge 16 foot plants. I suspect this is the case even at lattitudes even slightly greater than at 10° from the equator. I suspect that this changes a little farther from the equator, because a friend who lives at slightly more than 10° lattitude and I were both arguing that as long as daylight is increasing, plants won't flower. We were arguing with someone who lived closer to the equator. Now I see we were likely wrong.

I suspect equatorial strains, like those from S. Colombia, are used to this environment, selected for these conditions, and tend to take time to start flowering despite the daylight conditions. Thai seems different. It behaves as an equatorial strain despite being grown at 20° or 25° and still get huge in 6 months. I'm told they just take 6 months to flower as a rule of thumb. This gives creedence to the ideas that I've read that Thai genetics were heavily influenced by genetics from places like South India or Sumatra.

I'll learn more as time goes on, but right now I'm guessing my growing life would be much easier in places like Oaxaca Mexico, given that I don't want to use supplemental lighting, I want them big, and need to keep my plant counts down. However, as long as I find a world class 6 month long flowering plant, I'll be just fine here. The dry season is generallty about 4 or 5 months long. I just have to time things correctly with the correct slow flowering strain. It's a good thing I love Thai Sticks.

 

[@hempy]

What you could do is start them under lights, it don't need to be HPS or expensive LED's fluorescent work great for Veg a mix of cool and day tubes work great for veg and then put them outside once they reach a foot or 2 vegged at 18/6 if you want taller larger plants.

I found Haze still grow and produce great yields even with lights on as low as 7/17 as long as they get a good veg at 18/6 beforehand where pure Thais did not, they need the 12/12 or 11/13 after 18/6 to produce big yields.

I found if you veg them and put them into flower small say 6 inch in pots the plants will remain a lot shorter and very manageable, ideal if you want to run numbers to select threw.

 

[ojd]

Greetings,

It is slowly dawning on me that the best genetics to grow this close to the equator are Thai and similar strains. Most of the plants from the GNTS (NH21 x MM) are flowering much too quickly. I have one male and one female that are lagging significantly, allowing them to have a chance to grow more than 2 meters tall. The rest are going to be sea of green midget types. Because the daylength is never more than 12.75 hours and daylight hours change so slowly, most plants just start flowering pretty quickly. Damned hybrids are the bane of my existence.

This is very different than at 42° north. I could start plants, any plants, in late December, the shortest day of the year (9 hours), and they wouldn't start flowering because daylight hours were increasing rapidly. This allowed me to grow huge 16 foot plants. I suspect this is the case even at lattitudes even slightly greater than at 10° from the equator. I suspect that this changes a little farther from the equator, because a friend who lives at slightly more than 10° lattitude and I were both arguing that as long as daylight is increasing, plants won't flower. We were arguing with someone who lived closer to the equator. Now I see we were likely wrong.

I suspect equatorial strains, like those from S. Colombia, are used to this environment, selected for these conditions, and tend to take time to start flowering despite the daylight conditions. Thai seems different. It behaves as an equatorial strain despite being grown at 20° or 25° and still get huge in 6 months. I'm told they just take 6 months to flower as a rule of thumb. This gives creedence to the ideas that I've read that Thai genetics were heavily influenced by genetics from places like South India or Sumatra.

I'll learn more as time goes on, but right now I'm guessing my growing life would be much easier in places like Oaxaca Mexico, given that I don't want to use supplemental lighting, I want them big, and need to keep my plant counts down. However, as long as I find a world class 6 month long flowering plant, I'll be just fine here. The dry season is generallty about 4 or 5 months long. I just have to time things correctly with the correct slow flowering strain. It's a good thing I love Thai Sticks.

Where are the NH21 x Mullumbimby Madness from (person or seed co ?) , flowering to quick ? , even 12/12 from seed these usually grow monsters, even rooted clone straight into flower grows huge plants ?

 

[FellaAndrene]

I've had a development in the terpene profiles of this year's plants. I obsess over these types of details. I'm a strong believer in the "entourage effect". I try to match the high I like with terpene and cannabinoid profiles. I've noticed some things. Maybe the most important is zero or near zero CBD. Interesting cannabinoids are THCV, and CBG. A short list of some of my favorite terpenes are pinene, limonene, menthol, black pepper, other spicy aromas, metalic, and a category I describe as a solvent aroma, i.e. turpentine, kerosene, etc. Hmm... menthol might actually fit into this category. I don't remember all the terpene names for these because I don't have to. My nose remembers the smell.

Interesting observations! But I always wonder what people want when they say they look for CBG.

CBG the precursor to THC and CBD, but it isn't active in its own right (as it's a partial agonist of CB1 receptors, it dampens their activity). Its presence tells me that the plant was harvested earlier. Vice versa, if the plant has CBN, the degradation product of THC, it was harvested late, or the plant was manganese-deficient (that's the case when you see both CBG and CBN in a sample).

I find cannabichromene (CBC) a far more interesting cannabinoid. It's present in things like the Chems, Jack Herer, Jilly Bean, Thai landraces, Mexican landraces, etc.

In Kannapedia, you can see the CBCA synthase coverage a sample has.

CBC is ~20 times more weak than THC as an CB1 agonist, but its other capabilitites make it a possible culprit for inducing trippiness. Namely, it inhibits beta-arrestin recruitment. This can prevent receptor internalization and prolong G-protein activity at the 5-HT2A receptor, the primary binding site of psychedelics.

In addition to that, it's also an agonist of the TRPA1 (the mustard/wasabi receptor), and TRPV3, the channel that mediates the psychoactivity of Boswellia resin a.k.a. frankincense. Meaning, this is the fuego

As far as I know, the aroma of black pepper comes mainly from oxidized caryophyllene, but other compounds play into it too.

Phellandrene (my favourite terp, hence my nickname) might be one of the most "metallic" ones. But it also brings a little bit of that eucalyptic tinge.

The main eucalyptus, menthol and minty notes probably come from oxane compounds like 1,8-cineol a.k.a. eucalyptol, 1,4-cineol, and isopulegol.

They found indole and skatole from "chemmy" weed: Minor, Nonterpenoid Volatile Compounds Drive the Aroma Differences of Exotic Cannabis

... And as we now know that the plants are also capable of dimethylation of amines, I think DMT is a real possibility too. Remember the DMT-smelling Sour Bubble genotypes?

... And I gotta add: I recommend checking out https://cannabisdatabase.ca too, it's a great site!

 

[ThaiBliss]

What you could do is

Hey Hempy,

Thanks for responding. I appreciate the help.

I did start them under lights. I just checked and they were under lights for only about a month, and did get about a foot tall. They grew pretty fast and it was more important to get my northern outdoor line big before putting them outside. The northerners were under light for two months an have already caught up with the predominately sativa cross, with Gypsy Nirvana Thai in it, in terms of flowering stage. Electricity is cheap here at the base level, but prices increase dramatically progressively if more is used. I had ten plants under a 150 watt white LED lights. After a month, there wasn't enough room.

The two plants that are the most slowly flowering could become quite big. If I didn't chop back the male, It could have been a 20 foot tall plant. That male is a monster, and I only know it's a male because of tiny pre-flowers. The female, might go 8 to 12 feet. It's hard to tell. The rest, I'll be lucky if they get 6 foot tall. More importantly, they don't seem to be branching out much.

To be fair, it's a rainy year. I'm told that this is more normal, where last year was a drought. Here, less than 75 inches of rain is a drought year. LOL. I think the cloudy weather is inhibiting the vegetative growth stage, except for the freakishly gigantic male. Yes, I want those types. My experience with Haze is that the longest flowering pheno was the only one that was really good. And it was world class. I've heard from more than a few that they have the same experience.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Where are the NH21 x Mullumbimby Madness from (person or seed co ?) , flowering to quick ?

Hi OJD,

I didn't have those seeds. The person that gifted me these seeds had already crossed a male with the Gypsy Nirvana Thai Stick plant. However, Neville (RIP) didn't want to use the GNTS because it was significantly slower flowering and a poor producer. Maybe the high was too wild. Some like the high more "rounded". The seeds I'm using certainly should be even more long flowering sativa leaning genetics. In fact, one plant I grew last year was crazy long flowering. I let it grow/flower for 7 months! It drove me crazy. It got about 6 feet tall and produced O.K. Not an exceptional high though. Maybe next time.

I don't really care about productivity if I find that Thai Stick high, but only now do I see this climate and outdoor light schedule is affecting my second level breeding priorities. Of course, if I find a two foot tall plant with Thai Stick high, I'd be estatic with success.

But yes, as of now, my majority of my test plants are flowering too quickly. Much more quickly than I would have expected. The thought has occurred to me that growing the starts inside and moving them outside to a natural 12 / 12 light cycle suddenly might be shocking them into flowering faster than if I just grew them outside from the very start. I wish I had more seeds of the F1 hybrid generation to experiment with. When I finish with them, I will have a sh*t-ton of F2s.

I'm a tropical equatorial environment newbie. It's even more different than I imagined. I'm learning fast but still speculating often.

Thanks for your response.

 

[@hempy]

My experience also the longer flowering plants have all been my selected keepers in the Haze and Sam says the same thing.

You only need to get them to say 1ft to 2 max and by the time they flower stretch you will have trees indoors or out.

I also think pot size plays a role to you need a min of say 4L to allow the plant to develop a nice healthy root ball before it gets transplanted and then put into flower.

 

[ThaiBliss]

But I always wonder what people want when they say they look for CBG.

Hey FellaAndrene,

Wow, what an interesting post! Thanks for the contribution.

I have only tested one plant for it's cannabinoid and terpene profiles. It was because after a verly long time growing, pollen chucking, and breeding, 40 plus years, I finally found something I was happy with at 42° north. It was consitent, and I loved the high. I got curious. It had CBG and nil CBD. This year would be a great year to test letting half of a plant get more ripe. Seeds are my priority, so waiting longer works for me.

I have noticed that plants with a really great high sometimes are ones with that weird metalic taste and feeling on my teeth. I'm with you on that terpene.

The entourage effects of all those cannabinoids and terpenes are really complex. One thing I'm confident of is that I don't want CBD despite what chemists say. It may be the only thing I know about it. I'd rather have less THC than let a plant get any CBD. That said, I don't mind testing more. Only problem is, I can't afford many chemical tests. I doubt the availability here.

... And as we now know that the plants are also capable of dimethylation of amines, I think DMT is a real possibility too. Remember the DMT-smelling Sour Bubble genotypes?

Now this is fascinating. There has to be something different about those Thai Sticks from the good ole days. There is something very different going on in those strains not accounted for with what I've read about cannabinoid profiles and terpenes.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out after I'm done here.