The Search for Trip Weed

[ThaiBliss]

RomanoWeed,

I've put early flowering mature cuttings out in February and had them ripen in May, just as they started to get some green vegetative re-growth. It turned out good. Some Thai planted in September or earlier north of the equator would probably ripen in January. That is the best you could do at 40 degree north without artificial light cycle manipulation.

It makes a big difference depending on what latitude you are located at, strain, and climate. You need to experiment for yourself. You will learn a lot that way. Don't be afraid to go out of the box. Let experience draw fuzzy boundaries for you. It takes time, but it's fun.

About 15 years ago I grew the best weed I've ever smoked. At the time I had about 35 years of experience, and that grow was basically an accident. How I grew it, the strain I grew, and perhaps the stars aligned to produce that world class weed. I grew that cutting several times varying conditions only slightly, and only once was it better than the Thai Stick I grew up smoking. Other times I grew it, and it was hay. Sativas are extremely fickle. I'm now a believer that each strain is entirely different in how it should be grown.

T.B.

 

[romanoweed]

to Thaibliss
Exactly that is what i wanted to know.. Can you also tell how old was the Cutting. With that i wanna get an Anwser how much it takes for Flower to further ripen after 22 march (wich is 12/12 sun) . And did you give proper light or was it rather seedling-lighting. Also did flowers after you put them outside really get bigger? Yes you said it went back to veg again after fully Ripen out in May, but did flowers get Bigger still or rather just crystallize in thc, and get brown? And what Strain was it, (how long was normal Flower period)? Wich degree Latitude? if you like

I wanna ad my thought: if you wanna use summer/spring sun to ripen flowers, and it seems that they startet revegging later in may, one could assumably only flower 3 months after the 22 march , so you would have atleast a part of the flowering phase to perform indoors. (And for shure we anyway talk of dooing so, to make the plants going into flower). But this partial flowering in summer/spring-time could increase potency of equatorial plants used to more intense sun.

Thanks for Anwser

 

[pinkus]

Romanoweed, I think that this is one of the threads that you should be digging into to figure out your project.

In particular I think that you should note that not all trippy weed has to flower for 6 months.



To all, best of luck with your projects.

 

[Breadwizard]

I topped the zam seedlings last night (two reasons: very limited vertical space, and to use the tops as clones to sex plants), and took a snapshot of the D plant before topping. I've never had a seedling have this many fingers at the third node before, good sign if you ask me!

I didn't top 'E' as it's a touch behind everything else, and I want to see how the shape progresses naturally, it's looking like it has whorled phyllotaxy of some sort, definitely a different shape than normal.

 

[Donald Mallard]

to Thaibliss
Exactly that is what i wanted to know.. Can you also tell how old was the Cutting. With that i wanna get an Anwser how much it takes for Flower to further ripen after 22 march (wich is 12/12 sun) . And did you give proper light or was it rather seedling-lighting. Also did flowers after you put them outside really get bigger? Yes you said it went back to veg again after fully Ripen out in May, but did flowers get Bigger still or rather just crystallize in thc, and get brown? And what Strain was it, (how long was normal Flower period)? Wich degree Latitude? if you like

I wanna ad my thought: if you wanna use summer/spring sun to ripen flowers, and it seems that they startet revegging later in may, one could assumably only flower 3 months after the 22 march , so you would have atleast a part of the flowering phase to perform indoors. (And for shure we anyway talk of dooing so, to make the plants going into flower). But this partial flowering in summer/spring-time could increase potency of equatorial plants used to more intense sun.

Thanks for Anwser

hey roman,
respect on your search ,



but i have to mention even in the tropics ,
its quite a search for tripping weed ,
its just rare to find these days ...

 

[ThaiBliss]

Greetings,

Breadwizard - Nice looking plant. I can't wait till mine get that big.

Trip Weed - We get a lot of differing opinions on what is trip weed. Therefore we get lot of differing conclusions on how to get there.

My seedlings went into the greenhouse. I only lost 1 to dampening off. Now it is slug danger time. I spread out a field of salt underneath the tray with the seedlings. I hope it works. I got 8 Zamaldelicas to sprout so far. Another Laos came up! The single Fett's 303 is still alive.

T.B.

 

[ThaiBliss]

I can't believe I'm finally back to searching through the remaining Neville's freak pheno descendants,. Here are some posts to preview it.

The plant I've seen that looks most similar to the freak was a Oaxacan Sugarcane plant posted by Mexcurandero. His bud looked like this:

The Neville's Haze freak pheno was the Dr. Grinspoon version of the bud above. It was maybe 4 to 12 calyxes per "bud".

The leaves looked like this:

Neville's had the same handle bar mustache curve of the outside leaflets and the nasty sharp looking serrations.

Here is the whole Sugarcane plant:

more...

 

[ThaiBliss]

I crossed it to other good plants I had that actually produced buds, and got done earlier than 18 weeks. The resultant plants kept some traits of the Neville's Haze freak. The color, the slow growing start, are strikingly similar.

This picture shows the yellow/gold/green color, and how many nodes are bunched together when it was really young. Note the internode distance at the bottom of the plant:

They get stretchy as they get older, but still before flowering cycle:

Here are the seedlings started at the same time as a Purple Haze Thai plant. Very slow growing indoors. The picture also shows the difference in color, in case you may have thought the color was due to lighting or photography. Maybe they will be faster in the bright outdoor light in the greenhouse:

There are supreme quality genetics in these seedling, but they are not expressing themselves to me yet. Maybe they will in further generations or from a cross with Laos. If they get done outdoor and are better potency grown outside, maybe I'll make seed for another inbred generation. My only plan is to see how they do outside and make some seed.

Leet - You are the Neville's Haze master. You have posted the best pictures of it I've seen. You just posted pictures of you growing it on the RUST thread, so I know you have been growing it for many years. You also believe in growing large numbers to find the trippy ones. Did you ever find one that looked like Mexcurandero's Sugarcane Oaxacan?

My understanding is that Neville's Haze is Haze (Colombian) x Haze (Colombian) x Thai x Northern Lights. Thai x Northern Lights being NL5. Is it possible that the Haze used had Golden Thai in it, or was it only Colombian strains? Could there be Mexican Oaxacan in the Haze?

I really wish I had pictures of the Neville's Haze freak. It didn't look Colombian to me at all. Maybe Colombian Gold, which could have been Mexican originally. I never smoked Colombian that was anything like Thai, and that Neville's Haze freak was more like Thai than pure Thai I've grown. It was better than the various Thai Sticks I smoked over a period of more than a decade.

I'd love to hear from you.

It's going to be a great summer!

ThaiBliss

 

[Breadwizard]

The "Thai" in northern lights is actually Hawaiian according to the NL thread. Story is the worked landrace seeds were sent to Hawaii by Seattle Greg, then crossed with q local sativa, then seeds sent back, where they were backcrossed.

 

[leet]

You know this subject is really complex so I will only answer what you ask.

Did you ever find one that looked like Mexcurandero's Sugarcane Oaxacan?

Yes. Neville's Haze x Skunk would give you that. The plant you show me is Colombian x Oaxacan. Btw, I think this is heavily Oaxacan dominant and I believe this mustache trait is also a trait in Oaxacan, which is probably similar in some ways to the colombians. I have some skunks that had those "haze" moustache leaves. In some ways the Oaxacan looks like heavily colombian with some indica genetics, thus the faster flowering times, thicker buds more indica structure... Without DNA tests is very difficult to decipher.

My understanding is that Neville's Haze is Haze (Colombian) x Haze (Colombian) x Thai x Northern Lights. Thai x Northern Lights being NL5. Is it possible that the Haze used had Golden Thai in it, or was it only Colombian strains? Could there be Mexican Oaxacan in the Haze?

Neville's Haze is (nl5xhazeA) x hazeC . The hazeA male and the hazeC male are brothers, hazeA according to Nevil gave more dark leathery smells(colombian?) while hazeC gave piney-pineapple-mango-lemon(Thai?). I don't see much if at all Oaxacan in the Neville's haze I 've grown. From what I know and understand, I only see Colombian and Thai in the Nevs Haze ( and AFG finely mixed from nl5 ). I wouldn't be surprised if there is some percentage of Oaxacan in the pure haze males, but I would suprised if it was a lot.


I can see what you mean about the bud. I believe the Oaxacan not to be very unrelated to some Colombians.. What do you think about this ? But the morphology of the bud can come from a lot of pathways, including enviromental factors. I can see the similarities from the Oaxacan both the plant and the bud to the Nevilles Haze and it's not wild for someone to think they can be related. Generally speaking, sativas can also produce similar looking buds, running stacked calyxes and all that.


But if I had to take a wild guess I would say that Oaxacan is a short structured faster Colombian or with a touch of indica. I have seen some Oaxacans that look very Skunky with fat running calyxes but I have also seen some more Colombian sativa looking plants that produce more hazy looking thin stacked calyxes. But I believe this Oaxacan is more distant to the Hazes. Unfortunately, I was grown up in Europe and don't have much experience in American plants, but the Colombians I smoked didn't produce the Piney-Lemon-Pineapple-Frankincense taste I know from the Thai leaning Nevs Haze phenos but more dark leathery berry smells. My sample is extremely small.



A wild guess

I grew two Purple Haze x Thai females, one smelled like peanuts, the other more metallic. The peanut one was short with extremely thin leaves and took around 110 days to finish. I didnt like them nor did I think they were trippy or potent but I know my sample was small ( only two plants ).


I have smoked 303 from Fet I think it's really good and real trip weed. It's like Zamal/Dalat style, extremely thin leaves and highest high. Only for the most advanced growers.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Breadwizard - Hawaiian and Thai might be the same, depending on the selection. I spent hours talking with a dude, older than dirt (me), that grew up there. He said before indica came in, Hawaiian was mostly S.E. Asian weed, Thai; Cambodian; Laos. He also said there was African influence. He remembered Swazi with a glint in his eye and moaned a little.

I can see what you mean about the bud. I believe the Oaxacan not to be very unrelated to some Colombians.. What do you think about this ?

It's all mixed up. When I first started smoking, Mexican was about all there was. The stuff my friends were getting was super clean and trippy. We didn't know we were high until we realized that we were laughing uncontrollably and the most common, but absurd, things that most people never give a second thought to. Our sides would hurt and our cheeks were sore from laughing so hard and smiling so much.

The government started spraying paraquat in Mexico and really wiped out that source. I'm sure growers and genetics fled to Colombia, which was THE next commercial source for the next decade.

Here is the funny thing. I was lucky to be gifted some Oaxacan seeds and when they were ripe, they smelled just like much of the Mexican I remember from those decades ago. It had this musty/minty aroma. I think people thought Mexican weed was badly handled. No, that is just how it smelled. LOL It turned out really dreamy, very similar to the high I remember from Colombian strains. Go figure.

Pure Thai or other S.E. Asian is distinct. The high may be unique depending on conditions. I only considered two of my Thai grows to be successful in my life. The first time the high was very strong and trippy. Great world class weed, but it lacked the buzzy/electric terrifying adrenaline rush that made the Thai Stick so distinctive to me. The other time was the Neville's Haze freak pheno. It was spot on Thai Stick high. What a revelation! It had everything and more. The thing that made it better than the Thai Stick that I had experience with, was the waves of euphoria that just about bowled you over. It also came on like a hammer. On second, everything was normal and disappointing. The next moment, wham! What the frig happened? Was I passed out? How long have I been sitting here? When am I going to stop getting higher? Is this permanent?!!! Just like acid or psilocybin mushrooms. Thai Stick was so strong it put most people off, sometimes forever for any weed, but that Neville's Haze freak pheno was mind blowing. How can this be? Thai does not cross well. How can this Neville's Haze, which is supposed to be mostly Colombian, throw these phenos. It doesn't make sense. Maybe someone was growing Thai in Colombia, and that became part of Haze. If they were, I never smoked any Colombian weed that was even close to Thai, or Jamaican ganja, or Sumatran. There were many kinds of world class very potent Colombian weed. Some of them I swear I could levitate on, like Quaaludes, and travel without moving my legs. I LOVED a few of them, but the character was so different than Thai Stick.

I have smoked 303 from Fet I think it's really good and real trip weed. It's like Zamal/Dalat style, extremely thin leaves and highest high. Only for the most advanced growers.

GertLush grew it expertly. He has posted some pictures that are amazing looking. He also sounds about as fanatic about it as I am with Thai Stick. Glad to hear how you feel about the 303. I'm so excited, I can't sleep. It's also a crazy moon out there. So much depends on that Fett's 303 and those Laos seedlings. They are so delicate and vulnerable right now.

That Purple Haze Thai was the only one that sprouted, and it was male. I crossed it to the SAGE cutting I had, and those children turned out really good, but not what I am pursuing. Too much like Colombian, and not S.E. Asian enough. I still like the SAGE and am working that into my line.

B.T.W., the first Laos seedling is gigantic and vigorous. The other one that just came up is much more delicate/sativa looking. Very interesting. I swear the big one must be male. Wishful thinking. LOL

The Gypsy Thai crosses are wicked looking. Those are really something also.

My only goal is to get seeds from all these. I don't do indoor anymore. I need to tame them enough that I can cross them to my outdoor weed. My outdoor line is a series of crosses using what I deem as successful sativa crosses to indica. Only the rare success stories like good phenos of Trainwreck, Kali Mist, Burmese (might be pure), Bangi Haze, and SAGE. Like Neville's Haze, I'm just throwing pure world class sativas at them again.

It's dark out and I won't see the seedlings again until I get home from work. Praying to the Cannabis gods, give me the good stuff, and I'll take care of them for the rest of my life, while disseminating them and preaching the gospel of trip weed.


Hahaha. I just can't help myself. Too much Thai Stick.

 

[leet]

Hey ThaiBliss,

Thank you for the information about Mexican and Colombian sativas. I wouldn't even pretend to say I know how pure mexicans smoke as I only have seen pics online and most of of what I've seen are those shorter structures sativa with the thich running foxtails, very similar to skunks. All I know is I have grown Skunks that look extremely similar to those sativas/mexican landraces I've seen online.

The closest I have smoked to pure Colombians I would assume are dubi's pure OT1 haze plants and some other colombian red/gold plants. I had the chance to smoke I *think* all ACE seeds OT1 haze mother plants. I thought these plants looked the most to pure colombians I have seen in real life compared to what I have seen online so far. By then, I have grown the hazes from MNS and I see similarities but also differences. The looks where pretty similar but when you smoked the buds there was no real similarity between the Neville's Haze and the OT1 hazes. Well at least there were more differences than similarities. Which had me wondered for a while since the plants looked very similar. But then I noticed the differences, the Thai plants have bigger fan leaves and longer and sometimes they can get thicker too. As far as the structure goes, they stretch more than the colombians and the fill less. Its more common to find bigger buds in Colombians than Thais. The Colombians are at keast as slender leaves as the Thais and they do more moustache style and swirls. The thai leaves will more easily claw/ramshorn than the colombians. The Nev's haze is a fine blend of these two and pheno dependant you might find more Thai or more Colombian plants. I believe the trip weed high is in the Thai plants that carry the pine-pineapple/mango-lemon-incense scents and not so much the dark leathery berry colombian smells that give more narcotic high. You can also get plants in the Nevilles Haze that are more colombian dominant and are more narcotic. Most hazeA dominant plants would be like this.

I hope this helps man... I don't pretend to know anything.. in fact I know nothing and I always find myself confused but these are just my findings so far..

I have smoked the 303 buds from Gert Lush it is indeed amazing. He used to grow my nev's haze for a while and did some crossings too I think between them hehe


Maybe it's time to bug him and ask him if there are any seeds left

 

[romanoweed]

Regarding Spring-early-flower
Had some short conversation about Thaiblisses earlyflowering Plants mentioned on the 2 Pages earlier: he wrote:




I dont remember the exact Details, but

It was a mostly indica plant. It is the only kind that would ripen so fast.

Can you also tell how old was the Cutting. With that i wanna get an Anwser how much it takes for Flower to further ripen after 22 march (wich is 12/12 sun) . And did you give proper light or was it rather seedling-lighting.

Seedling lighting. Going from low light to outside is dangerous and will bleach (kill) the leaves white. It is best to move on a cloudy day and move into speckled light under a tree. Then take a few days to move it into full sun, a little bit at a time.

Also did flowers after you put them outside really get bigger?

It only started flowering when I moved it out. I did not intend to do this. I couldn't help it. Remember, it was indica.

Yes you said it went back to veg again after fully Ripen out in May, but did flowers get Bigger still or rather just crystallize in thc, and get brown? And what Strain was it, (how long was normal Flower period)? Wich degree Latitude?

42 degrees.

----

My (Romanoweed) thoughts: my idea is based on the thought of Flowers staying in bloom while days getting longer... So a sativa wich often trigger Flowers only ner 12/12hours light might therefore go back to veg. faster... I also have read in another Thread that plants go acciently into flower when planted even in April /may and i didnt hear this to happen with Sativas, only one time one told it happend with just a Sativa(dont know Percentage). He also told he had only 6 hours Sunshine mainly, cause of a hill. He was 42 Degree N.

This thread about acccidently early flowering:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=359866

Again my Thread about generally how to finish trippy pure sativa at 45 Degree Nort :
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=360394

 

[leet]

Hey Romanoweed,


Around 35-40 latitude , we have from 9.5 hours to 15 hours of sun light. Biggest day is in June 20-21 and shortest day is in Dec 20-21. Now its around 12/12 and in 6 months its also 12/12 ( 21 Aug ). Most strains will start flowering then around... 12/12. Even most sativas will start flowering by then , it's just you won't see them properly flowering until a month passes. But it's not uncommon for some pure sativas to start flowering a bit later around late Sept which is 11/13. Having that in my mind , and that it is a bit harder for plants to go back to reveg when the flowering hormones have been built, you can make your own calculations.


Btw I find it very hard to believe for plants to flower under 13.5 hours in May. Maybe if they are in a balcony where it it gets one hour less in the morning and one hour less in the evening or something..


Generally, I would expect a sativa to reveg around April.

 

[romanoweed]

to leet

at the Moment
21 march its 12 / 12
21 juni its longest Day
21 Sept. its 12 / 12
21 Dec. its shortest Day

Like said: pure Sativas go into flower near to 12 / 12 = 22 Sept. i heard
Im speaking about really pure Sativas so they might tend to go only near to 22 Sept into Flower.. But probably outdoor they might react faster to Shortening days.. so maybe its really around August..

So before 22 March , to accomplish Flowering hormones, hopefully , we should flower them a while before that Date i suggest to etablish this Hormones CAUSE short after 22 March the vegetative hormones might arrise in pure Sativas
This is just pointing out rather the Save Calcullations. Im unshure how long this Flowering hormones will stay over despite the Sunlight-hour-Facts ater the 21 March. I guess i have to try all parameters.

This might be crutial, cause if a pure Sativa is going really close to 12 / 12 into flower, then there is no room for them to stay in flower after 22 march, ONLY if the Hormones take time to change. I have no idea abou that Hormones Thingy. But would i have a still quiet pure Sativa, wich flowers much earlier in August, wich maybee nearly as trippy, The Timespan before possible reapearing of veg. hormones is unlike bigger. Cause again: my idea is to gain stronger weed cause of stronger Summer/Springsun.. Thats quiet a bit of callculations. I will have to tryout.

 

[leet]

Yes thats it. The nevils haze x mango haze Im smoking doesn't help My quest for trip weed here is over



In and around equator its around 11.5 shortest /12.5 highest. So equatorial sativas will start to build up veg hormones after 22 march. Remember when the plant is fully flowering , it would take lots of days for the veg hormones to come up and the flowering hormones to come down, so as I said I would expect a sativa to reveg around mid April. It also heavily depends on the maturity of the plant, if you put a plant out in March , it won't flower at all, it will veg normally and it will continue veg until Aug/Sep. There is no equatorial sativa that needs 11/13 to flower as far as I know, there is no place near the equator that reaches 11 hours


EDIT : Some indicas on the other hand will be ok flowering with 13 hours in mid /late August.

 

[romanoweed]

Yes Leet
So staying with thema pure Sativas:
I probably will try then to like: flower pure Sativa in Jan. Feb. (indoor, eventually weak light) so flowers just gain full Flower hormones, whenever that is, so maybe its quiet late, like Flowers already middle developed.. At this point i will place them outside when they can survive the temperatures at night(its basically around 21 March, and hope they gain the intensity in trippyness from the Spring-sun. Wich will hopefully last a bit longer then only 1 Month/mid_April untill they reveg. (Wich they shure will doo as Delicate Sativas... i heard about 2 Year old revegging pure Sativas couple times..... but some say its a rather a Myth)

Like , when is the Point where pure Sativas would say: "You want me to reveg now? You got to be joking, im 70 Perent done" This point i wold like to reach , so the plant may stay longer in flowering, DESPITE the Facts.. Thats a possibilety. But the Rumor tells something other. Rumor tells of Sativas likely to Reveg... But still hope, cause these revegged sativas i once read about was rather growing so slow that they didnt finish Flower in One Yearscycle, so they went back in veg with roundabout 50 Percent Sized flowers in the 2nd March happening March...

 

[Lolo94]

@Thaibliss. I posted a pohoto of the Swazi IBL from Hawaii and of a cross of it and a Hilo found sativa on the Maui Wowie thread page 20. One of my favorites.
Cheers
https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=481989&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1547317642

 

[ThaiBliss]

@Thaibliss. I posted a pohoto of the Swazi IBL from Hawaii and of a cross of it and a Hilo found sativa on the Maui Wowie thread page 20. One of my favorites.
Cheers
https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=481989&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1547317642

Lolo - Thanks so much for posting. Seems like confirmation to me. I have visited a couple of the beautiful islands. I loved it there. I met a traveler that was working remotely from the Big Island for about 6 months. He loved being there. He said he got great weed. He mentioned that the weed didn't smell that good, but it was really strong. I think it was an indica/hybrid smoker who was converted to a sativa lover. Hahahaha

Can you write a description of the high, and why the Swazi is your favorite? Do you ever come across anything described as a pure Thai or other S.E. Asian strains?

Romanoweed - I'd shade the flowering start a little earlier, like the middle or late December. If you don't start early enough, you may get some vegetative growth in the bud that has much less resin and much more chlorophyll. If you start too early, all that happens is that the sunlight is less intense than it could have been. You can always start a little later next time, when you know more precisely when ripening will finished. Like Leet said, it can sometimes take a month before the buds start forming after increasing the number of hours of darkness for flowering.

All my seedlings survived through the first day in the greenhouse. It was a close call. A couple of seedling trays dried out enough that two seedlings looked wilted. It is supposed to rain tomorrow. One of the now eight Zamaldelicas has very narrow first leaves. The next narrowest is the new Laos sprout. All six Gypsy Thais have sprouted. I can't stand it. I'm taking all next week off just to coddle these babies along. I want to see them several times a day until they go in bigger 5 x 5 inch pots.

ThaiBliss

 

[romanoweed]

to Thaibliss

And what happnd exatly to your Flowers, when they went back to veg? Or did you cut them then. Would be interesting if Flowers would still ripen somehow when back in veg. Would eventually still caramellize from transparent to brown? maybee? I actually dont care for taste(coughing) that much..