The Search for Trip Weed

[ThaiBliss]

Thanks for these pictures. Looking forward to regular updates and more pictures. This is going to be great!

 

[Sticky Sat]

Hello guys !

This red haired girl is also quite trippy... All in the head when cut a bit early, with some added body when ripe "as it should be"... It's the pheno i kept from last year's search into the 2003 SAGE genetics.... There actually was a tripiest one but unfortunately impossible to clone... Despite the afghani in it, the 7 F2s females were clearly sativa dominant. Not sure where the SAGE sativa side comes from though... Some say Thailand, others Colombia or Mexico... i wrote to THseeds to ask but got no answer... It's quite resistant to mold...

The one above was harvested a month ago, in the peak of the rainy season. For comparison, this one is from last year's "good" season and it shows in the trichs...

A nice week to all !

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Hello guys !

This red haired girl is also quite trippy... All in the head when cut a bit early, with some added body when ripe "as it should be"... It's the pheno i kept from last year's search into the 2003 SAGE genetics.... There actually was a tripiest one but unfortunately impossible to clone... Despite the afghani in it, the 7 F2s females were clearly sativa dominant. Not sure where the SAGE sativa side comes from though... Some say Thailand, others Colombia or Mexico... i wrote to THseeds to ask but got no answer... It's quite resistant to mold...

View Image

The one above was harvested a month ago, in the peak of the rainy season. For comparison, this one is from last year's "good" season and it shows in the trichs...
View Image

A nice week to all !

I thought the sativa side was Big Sur Holy weed?

 

[Breadwizard]

Reportedly it's Big Sir Holy Weed, which is supposed to be zacatecas purple (old mex line) crossed with an Afghan, then bred to sativa high with Afghan frame by a monk (if you believe the stories)

 

[ThaiBliss]

Greetings,

Really nice looking SAGE Sticky Sat. Looks like a winner, even if not the best you have found.

I had a SAGE cut, and have been breeding with the genetics from it because I love it. I also did quite a bit of digging around to find the history of the strain. Like Bread Wizard has posted, it has Big Sur Holy Weed in its lineage, which is Mexican Purple Zacatecas sativa crossed to an indica of some sort. I think the breeder has made SAGE his own by adding Haze. The percentage of indica, Haze, and Purple Zacatecas is not clear to me. If Haze is the part that brings the magic, It is the second best Haze derivative I have smoked. It is quite different than other Haze crosses I've tried, which makes me believe the Purple Zacatecas component is critical to it's character.

I have also heard that the pure Purple Zacates high was described as being in the presence of God. SAGE can sometimes give me a peak experience which is profound. It is that feeling that makes it qualify as trippy in my opinion. For what it's worth, I have heard it speculated that Colombian Purple, a component of Haze, came from Purple Zacatecas. I was a smoker back in the day when Mexican Cannabis crops were being sprayed with Paraquat. Colombian became the new commercial weed source, and I believe growers fled Mexico to Colombia with their genetics.

My Two Cents,

ThaiBliss

 

[Sticky Sat]

Many thanks to all for so kindly sharing your knowledge. You're all making icmag the great forum it is

 

[herbgreen]

I think if you listen close to that interview with kagyu adam says it was 'triple A weed' that's what sage was called...

In this interview @16:30 - 23:00 adam talks about where sage comes from....first 6mins of this interview audio is messed up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB5Def_ueeM

Thats the lineage 'Triple A' other than that its from big sur and everything back then worth a damn was the BSHW according to Adam

BSHW is known to be zacatacas purple grown by natives in mexico and acclimatized to BigSur Its arrival in Califorina is pre-afghan era

Adam took a bunch of seeds back to Amsterdam from the 'triple A' weed and did a selection

worked it from there..... crossed to male afghani

You never know....the haze in sales descriptions may be a way of explaining its sativa but I have never heard Adam say haze or that original haze was used....At the time it was probably easier than explaining tripleA or BSHW

these are all good questions for Adam directly


bshw..... a mexican zacatecas acclimatized to big sur over generations may not even be a hybrid because its too early for Afghani back then when it became popular in California

Article on bshw

https://highboldtage.wordpress.com/tag/big-sur-holy-weed/

Adam Dunn potcast w/heavy daze

https://soundcloud.com/user-928350579-16614181/episode-18-ft-adam-dunn-of-tads-th-seeds-hoodlamb

 

[gunsofbrixton]

are there any cannabanoid test results for these strains?

 

[ThaiBliss]

Herbgreen - Thanks for posting this info. It is obvious that you have a passion for SAGE and or Big Sur Holy Weed, just like I do. We may have different perspectives, and this is why we are here to interact and test our interpretations.

I think if you listen close to that interview with kagyu adam says it was 'triple A weed' that's what sage was called...

I'll have to listen again more carefully, but I took that as the best grade of weed. I might have completely missed that.

In this interview @16:30 - 23:00 adam talks about where sage comes from....first 6mins of this interview audio is messed up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB5Def_ueeM

Thats the lineage 'Triple A' other than that its from big sur and everything back then worth a damn was the BSHW according to Adam

I'm surprised at this interpretation. California in general was a cornucopia of great weeds in the 70s. Santa Cruz and Big Sur were hippie/surfer centers. I arrived nearby almost too late to experience it. I'm so glad I got there when I did. At first it was Cannabis heaven, but witnessed the start of the degradation first hand. I didn't understand the degradation until later. At first it was just a blossoming of weed choices, then just the hybrids.

I heard he had a disdain for most of the Mexican he was getting early when he arrived in California. I know that locations go through phases as Cannabis becomes commercialized. I've seen it many times. Mexican was once high grade kick ass weed. As it became popular, and subsequently commercialized, the quality of the overall export deteriorated drastically. I've seen that cycle from Mexico, then Colombia, then Jamaica, Thailand, and even California. Ones perspective depends entirely upon what point in time you experienced the weed.

Adam liked other weed from that era. He stated that the best weed he ever smoked was a Thai weed that he got when he lived back east. I believe he also respected some people's Haze cuttings while he was working in Amsterdam. He also is like me, he has a thing for S.E. Asian weed. Probably because of the Thai he smoked. He mentioned that he wishes that S.E. Asian and other sativas were more commercially acceptable because they have the best highs. I can't count the number of times he mentions Laos weed.

Of his own work, he feels SAGE was his best. He described it as "adult weed" because of the cerebral nature of the high. He told a story of working on some strong OG strains. After a time had passed, he goes back to smoking SAGE and wonders why he even spent all that time smoking the new strains. He feels he should have been smoking SAGE all along. SAGE is his touchstone and his flagship.

BSHW is known to be zacatacas purple grown by natives in mexico and acclimatized to BigSur Its arrival in Califorina is pre-afghan era

Adam took a bunch of seeds back to Amsterdam from the 'triple A' weed and did a selection which turned out to be the runt (he talks about this in another interview)

Adam said the female was a runt and the first plant they tried

worked it from there..... the male being afghani

You never know....the haze in sales descriptions may be a way of explaining its sativa but I have never heard Adam say haze or that original haze was used....At the time it was probably easier than explaining tripleA or BSHW

these are all good questions for Adam directly

bshw..... a mexican zacatecas acclimatized to big sur over generations may not even be a hybrid because its too early for Afghani back then when it became popular in California

I'm not sure when Big Sur Holy Weed was "acclimatized", but Afghani weed goes back to a long time ago in the U.S.A. I was smoking pure indica back in the mid 1970s. I lived in the Midwest, more or less not a great area for weed except for the extremely wealthy suburb I happened to be from. I moved to California in the late 70s and got to experience the pure sativas and pure indicas being grown back then in California. It wasn't until the early 80s that the hybrids became predominate. I'm sure it was going on earlier, but as a consumer, these were the date ranges that these different weeds were common and widely available. I'm sure that for the pioneers, the date ranges would be skewed much earlier. Perhaps Purple Zacatecas was one of the earlier strains that was hybridized. I have had two different cuttings of BSHW, and one of SAGE. All three were much more sativa leaning than most of the pictures I see posted of them. Most pictures of BSHW look predominately indica to me. SnowHigh has some BSHW that looks more like sativa than either of my cuttings looked like. I just don't believe it wasn't hybridized early, and we are now seeing pictures of people's selections that have gone in different directions in further filial generations.

Article on bshw

https://highboldtage.wordpress.com/tag/big-sur-holy-weed/

Adam Dunn potcast w/heavy daze

https://soundcloud.com/user-928350579-16614181/episode-18-ft-adam-dunn-of-tads-th-seeds-hoodlamb

I'll try to listen more carefully to his interview on the first link you posted. I must have missed some key phrases.

Thanks again for your post.

T.B.

 

[herbgreen]

I'm not sure when Big Sur Holy Weed was "acclimatized", but Afghani weed goes back to a long time ago in the U.S.A. I was smoking pure indica back in the mid 1970s. I lived in the Midwest, more or less not a great area for weed except for the extremely wealthy suburb I happened to be from. I moved to California in the late 70s and got to experience the pure sativas and pure indicas being grown back then in California.

Perhaps Purple Zacatecas was one of the earlier strains that was hybridized. I have had two different cuttings of BSHW, and one of SAGE. All three were much more sativa leaning than most of the pictures I see posted of them. Most pictures of BSHW look predominately indica to me. SnowHigh has some BSHW that looks more like sativa than either of my cuttings looked like. I just don't believe it wasn't hybridized early, and we are now seeing pictures of people's selections that have gone in different directions in further filial generations.T.B.

very hard to know....I think I based that on this article from the book 'weed' from here....

https://highboldtage.wordpress.com/tag/big-sur-holy-weed/

[There are various versions of this story some involving a town called Gorda and an individual named Danbo. Just google “monk named Perry.”

“now lets go to the book WEED by Jerry Kamstra 1974. this is fairly early report on BSHW. if you read the book you will believe the author really knows what he is talking about. he was down there buying the mexican weed in Zacatecas and elsewhere in Mexico. but he was a very early buyer and smuggler. go to the bottom paragraph of page 149.

“Zacatecas Purple is a variety of marijuana that grows in a particular high mountain valley in the state of Zacatecas. When cured the seeds from the colas have a distinctive purple hue. and the weed is exremely potent. especially if it is allowed to cure properly. in the late sixties a beatnik dealer planted a crop using some Zacatecas Purple seeds in the mountains of Big Sur. The resultant weed came to be known as Big Sur Holy Weed and holy it was too. “]

Heres a short video of Jerry Kamstra....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjT12BdDzlU


Yeah, sage is good and who knows ...now that I hear adam say what he said about 'triple A' .... I am going to re-listen to his other interviews so I can get what I can

Main thing is sage is what we have...damn good and interesting!

phenos of all sorts may be found....which may or may not be related to holy weed! lol

And I say 'acclimatized' to account for the flower time and durability of the plant and based on the above where its saying late sixties and became famous...eventually written about in 1974

Too early for afghani even in California....the late sixties part that is

And there are different versions coastal came out with a few packs of pure BSHW and also hybrids

kagyu from coastal very close with snowhigh and bodhi who also released some in the past

but who knows .....been too many years

My bet is the original was pure mexican grown in Northern California and selected for early flower

Thats what Im hoping is in the sage

 

[Dr.Young]

Great stuff... gave me something to listen to, and sponge.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

You guys are making me want to grow my white sage seeds. Description says its totally dominated by the sage.

 

[Homebrewer]

The SAGE cut that I have is one of only 2 strains that I've encountered in my 18 years of growing that gives me visuals. The other was an Ethiopian landrace.

 

[Sticky Sat]

It's a shame the only SAGE male i had on this last run wasn't fertile as i only have a dozen seeds left from the F2s i did in 2003.

I did pollinate the most sat dom females with a nice Bangi Haze male though, so i can always go the bx way... Haven't tried the cross yet but i'm looking forward to...

 

[Bardo Eagle]

I smoked some legal weed(europe),in theory very low thc %1,and high cbd %15. 0,2 joint and strangely bammmm,wtf
Hit me for real,after 1 hour i'm really high and is deep,after 10 days of abstinence.I had visual-sound distorsions,shadow people and strange sound,mental.the really strange but obvious/andnot things is the apparence of the bud hempy beautiful,but pratically an airy shitty bud,smell like juniper a little and lemonny skunk ,zero odour
Other legal weed have good odour apparence,but for real has thc and cbd ,no bueno,cbd is bad for thc lol,this hempy sativa hasn't cbd at all to me 100 %head,a some body but maybe only for 100% head
At first o my god this shitz ,but than yeah this is the effect of clear,psychedelic sativa but without bad effect..strange things happen, please help me hahahahaahahah

 

[therevverend]

The SAGE cut that I have is one of only 2 strains that I've encountered in my 18 years of growing that gives me visuals.

When I first started smoking my friend got some Alaskan Thunderfuck from his dad in Spokane. Who knew some bikers from Alaska. That stuff would give us visuals, probably the best I've had. I've got a thing for visuals and get them easily, those PNW mushrooms are magic.

We went on a hike on a steep eroded hill above a stream at night, it was hard because we were walking through a storm of colors. I looked behind me and saw my friend disappear. The trail had curved to the right and he hadn't noticed. He'd walked straight off a cliff where there had been a landslide. He was at the bottom almost in the creek. Dragging him up out of there was a chore.

We'd hang out in the afternoon, we'd get high and listen to a lot of Creedence Clearwater. We'd listen to their best of collection, Chronicle. The first couple songs were Suzie Q and I Put a Spell on You, give us crazy visual and auditory hallucinations. Every time I Put a Spell on You would play we'd think the phone would be ringing. One of us would hear it first. 'Dude the phone's ringing.'
'I don't think so.'
'Maybe it isn't.'
'Wait I think I hear it.'
'Yeah me too.'
Every damn time.

 

[therevverend]

Too early for afghani even in California....the late sixties part that is

Trying to figure out the history of Afghani hashplants in the US isn't easy but I'll take a crack at it. Along with the confusing history of the taxonomy. This'll take a cup of coffee..

In 1785 Jean-Baptiste Lamarck published a descrption of the second type of cannabis, Cannabis Indica. Carl Linnaeus had documented the first type, Cannabis sativa, in 1753. Cannabis Sativa was the type Europeans were familiar with, hemp for textiles that doesn't get you high. (We can debate whether these are different enough to separate them at the species level, I think they're similar enough it should be Cannabis Sativa Sativa and Cannabis Sativa Indica but let's leave that to biologists to argue over.)

Lamarck was describing the type of cannabis that was different to Europeans, the drug type that grew in India that gets you high. He described a female type NLD (narrow leaf drug) variety with sparse, wispy, elongated buds. When you see bottles of cannabis tincture from the 19th and early 20th century labeled 'Cannabis Indica' this is not Afghani cannabis. It is from NLDs.

The Russians Vavilov and Bukinich in 1929 first reported the occurance of the Afghani type of broad leaf drug type (BLD). Vavilov included two BLD types from Pakistan and Afghanistan as subspecies of Cannabis Indica, named Cannabis Indica Afghanica. He was lumping BLDs together with NLDs in the same category, saying Sativas and Indicas are together because they're both drug types of cannabis. He could have called it Cannabis Afghanica separating it from the other drug types.

In 1972 Richard Howard Schultes traveled to Afghanistan specifically to obtain samples of the then little-known hashish cultivars. This makes me think Afghani strains and definitely Afghani hashish had come to the attention of some Americans. This was why Schultes, a botanist who documented ethnogens, was interested in documenting the plants.

Schultes followed Vavilov in using a broad definition of Cannabis Indica including all the drug cannabis, both NLDs and WLDs. Schultes interpreted Cannabis Indica as the ancestor of all NLD strains worldwide. This may or may not be true, NLDs may have traveled from China in the east through the Himalayas to India where they evolved into a new category in the Hindu Kush. Schultes' conclusion was pretty good at the time before DNA evidence.

Schultes chose and described a very short squat profusely branched WLD plant as the type specimen of Cannabis Indica. I'm looking at a picture of it, it's about 3 feet tall and growing in a sandy wasteland. Schultes in down on one knee so he can get a look at it. It had dark green leaves.

This is how he confused every pot grower in the world since 1974, he used Lamarck's name Cannabis Indica to correctly identify the hashplants but he incorrectly used it without the subspecies monker, Cannabis Indica Afghanica. He should not have chose his BLD as his type specimen, he should have stuck with Lamarck's or used a NLD from India.

Lamarck had named Indian drug types Cannabis Indica without knowing about Afghani BLDs but in 1976 two other biologists (Small and Cronquist) mistakenly lumped C. Indica NLD from India together with C. Sativa (European Hemp) because they all have narrow leaves. They also didn't view any BLD specimens so they left those out entirely!

Since then other biologists have also fucked up, calling NLD hemp types originating in Eurasia Indicas, WLD types Cannabis Afghanicas creating a bigger more confusing mess for people who are already pretty stoned. Then Ruderalis came along, which is basically a dwarf version of Cannabis Sativa (narrow leaf Euro hemp) which some people erroneously thought was a 3rd species of cannabis, Cannabis Ruderals.

Boy did this get long I'l have to quit here and figure out how early BLD types came to the USA. The moral here is that we're incorrect calling these plants sativas and indicas and we should correct ourselves. I prefer Robert Connell Clarke's suggestion, the NLD and BLD monikers. The problem is that I hate acronyms because there's always someone who can't figure out what they stand for. I tend to use Afghani, hashplants, Euro hemp, tropical, long season, to differentiate the two types. I guess it doesn't matter what you call it as long as I can figure out what the hell we're all talking about..

 

[MAHA KALA]

trippy stuff

 

[therevverend]

Nice looking stuff there MAHA KALA..

Sorry I got a bit off topic there but I'd never walked through that before. I knew Schultes had made an error but I didn't know the specifics. The real point was when Indicas first spread to the USA. I'd think it'd be when Afghani hashish reached over here and I think the Brotherhood of Eternal Love is the culprit.

In 1968 the BEL made their first purchase of hashish in Kandahar for $20 a kilo US and smuggled 50 kilos back to California. Bingo. There's your date. They would drive vehicles from Europe to Kandahar, fill them with hash, then drive them to Karachi. Then ship them back to the US.

By 1970 they'd started a small hashish honey oil factory in California turning the Afghan hashish into honey oil. Their goal was to produce natural THC in a powdered form, then a synthetic form, then a super powerful synthetic LSD type trip your balls off form. It never worked out and some would say (me for instance) that it may be for the best.

In 1971 one of their vehicles got seized in Vancouver BC and in early 1972 in Portland Oregon. In 1971 the DEA installed their first agent in Afghanistan. An explosion led Afghani police to a BLE honey oil factory in Afghanistan. By 1972 the BLE members were all getting busted but the flow of Afghani hashish to the west continued unabated.

This means the end of the glory years of hashish was around 1971. The US government and DEA was seriously disrupting the government which I'm sure was taking money from the US to bust people and at the same time selling other people hashish. This led to the revolution, the invasion, another revolution, another revolution, another invasion, and the totally fucked situation we have today. So depressing.

I'm getting off target here, my guess is that by the late 1960s Afghan seeds were filtering back to the USA. 1969 may have been the first year a seriously decent crop was growing in California but it would have been restricted to a few people. By 1972 there were BLD plants popping up all over the country. By the mid 1970s they were ubiquitous.

 

[Dr.Young]

ahh.... the birth of midgrade. Almost teared up