the potential in south america

[Syd]

if there's any behaviors among seed merchants that you're disgusted with, suggestions, would like to see anything in our catalog or would just like to talk I'm always available.

Hi Zamalito,
there's a little, stupid, obvious thing that I'd appreciate and nobody does it: printing the date of production on the seedpacks.

My best wishes for your work

 

[zamalito]

Thanks for the tip, syd! That's the kind of stuff I'd like to hear. Ogbub used to do that and its a really good idea. I'd also like to provide records so buyers can see which parents were used for which batch. That way someone can try to seek out a batch that most closely fits what they want. I have a close friend who manages a printing company and hopefully we'll be able to come up with some cool packaging that has both function and fashion.

 

[muddy waters]

After a while though, there seemed to be a huge influx of the schwag, mexi type bud from Paraguay as a result of this demand and greater border control by the cops. The commercial dealers began mixing ammonia and other crap to the weed to mask the smell. Sometimes we'd open a bag and our eyes would literally water. It was black and sometimes even wet, full of seeds and stems and caused major irritation in the lungs, but got people high as hell..

the ammonia smell i believe is a natural byproduct of decomposition/fermentation. portions of those huge shipments from paraguay often end up in some mid-level dealers' freezerbox, at times for up to 2 years or more. the ammonia smell is frequently associated with this. i believe the that the compression into bricks (and the brazilian bricks are much, much more compact than any other brick i've ever seen or heard about) is partially responsible for this fermentation. i can't pretend that i really understand the exact chemical reaction responsible for this, but i have witnessed it with hebr that i bought and stored for a while, only to find bluish fuzz and a heavy ammonia smell after a month or so.

After some major busts on plantations in Pernambuco and the surrounding areas (and gnarly repo laws) as well as a system of roadblocks were in effect in the mid to late 90s, the flow of good sativas from the northeast was choked and stayed regional.

this herb still shows up; certain dealers have ways to circumvent the road blocks ($$$) you might say. i have gotten it and it is typically looser, darker, drier, and less potent than the paraguayan brick. the smell is earthy and piney, like most s. american sativas. i have never planted out beans from this, usually because they are mostly immature or inviable.

During the late 80s and 90s, this increase in crap brick weed, harder access to good sativas and demand for good herb forced connoiseur Brazilians to begin importing alot of cheap workbud from Holland. A mule (usually upper middle class stoner) would fly over there, stuff a stereo full of pressed bud and fly back with 20 pounds of "green" or "skunk" like it was all called.
Buying that quantity at a buck a gram, it is sold in Rio and Sp for $15-20 a gram, so it flourished. Since bribery and corruption are no novelty, alot of times airport connections would facilitate large shipments. I suspect it was maybe from the bagseed of this herb, that commercial planters next door in Paraguay began using in their fields, because the bud was so light green, and tasted very different. It does indeed have that more pepperminty taste and is more indica in appearance although pressed.

i disagree with this hypothesis for how dutch varieties ended up being planted in paraguay. reason is, most dutch bud doesn't have seed. secondly, the volume of paraguayan brickweed is way too high to have come from just a few stray bagseed. because the growers around pedro juan caballero and other border locales are directly associated with brazilian drug gangs, it is reasonable to think that the brazilian gangs are the ones putting forth the capital for seedstock. i suspect that the brazilians are somehow acquiring bulk seedstock from holland and supplying it to the paraguayan growers. then you have some growers still using the more old school colombian drug strains, and some using the newer dutch genetics, and cross pollination resulting in hybrids. this would explain the fact that paraguayan brick can be sativa, dutch indica, or anything in between. i don't know exactly what fritzman's verdenasi is but i think i've grown out something very similar, a slightly leggy but heavily resinous, sweet skunk smelling plant. i think the success of the paraguayan brick is largely due to the stronger potency compared to the traditional brazilian sativas from the northeast. nowadays much of the brazilian sativa bud comes not from cabrobro, which is a town in the interior of pernambuco with a long history of cultivation, but from indian reservations in maranhao and para, where the buds are harvested much too early as a general rule. thus many brazilians consider the brickweed to be much better, despite its being compressed, seeded, and sometimes ammonia-smelling.

lastly, my impression is that brazilian smokers, even the heavy duty veterans, are very ill-informed about their bud. dealers here will say absolutely anything to sell their shit, including: it's "skunk," it's "hydroponic," etc. i don't doubt that some bourgeois folks up and buy their weed in holland, just as i don't doubt that folks would say their bud is from amsterdam even though it's homegrown (so as to diffuse suspicion). the majority of brazilian smokers i know don't even know it's the flower that you smoke. no one can believe it when i tell them that the leaves are basically useless. so often times, the names that accompany weed are not accurate, but rather a reflection of the crude marketing of dealers.

 

[Reign of Terror]

i said it from the start...and ill say it again...zam is the man

 

[Buffoonman]

Whilst travelling in Equador I bought some Columbian bud not sure what strain it was but it was one of the strongest strains I have smoked.

 

[zamalito]

Thank you guys so much for the kind words. Reign you're too kind! I promise I'll do my best to put the genes first and all you guys in a close 2nd when it comes to doing business.

Obviously the guys who have been living in brazil know more about brazilian herb than I do but I always felt that people overestimate the penetration of dutch genetics. I very well could be wrong but IMO indica phenos have been showing up where they don't belong before the dutch companies started shipping all over the world. There's that santa maria cutting and that hill temple collective variety og sunshine both from brazil and are like 50% indica and I think they both go back to the mid 80's. Then you've got all the indica phenos showing up in mexican herb. Then you've got the whole story of the importation of afghan genes to santa marta. That said of course the dutch have now provided an easy source for hybrid genetics. So who knows but its definitely a possibility that at least some of the skunk seeds are coming from mexico or elsewhere. Mexico produces staggering amounts of hybrid seed that I'm sure are much much cheaper than anything from holland.

Muddy, do you believe that the northeastern brazilian herb has much genetic potential since early harvest and subsequent bricking kills potency? Just wondering.

 

[zamalito]

Buffoonman, celestial temple sativa is supposed to be an ecuadorian strain. I've only smoked it grown indoors but it has paerfectly well rounded sativa buzz. It fits the descriptions I've read on the effects of colombian black/wacky weed which I believe is also a coastal mountain variety. Its a truly all encompassing high. It makes every part of you feel good and has an extremely unqiue odor.

 

[Elevator Man]

I was gifted a Jamaican clone a couple of months ago that smells very similar in harvest to White Widow, if it's any use at all on the Dutch issue. I saw it at the chop, and it was a very tall, columnar plant with minimal side branches - very long-fingered leaves with mostly forward-facing blades. I have no idea how it smoked though - he grew it outdoors in GB.

My friend visits Jamaica regularly, and this was from seeds he pulled out of a bud supplied by a good friend, but other than that, he has no idea what its origins might be. He also gave me two seeds of 'Jamaican Highend' which I've yet to germinate.
I can post some pics of the Jamaican clone later this evening, but my first thought on smelling the resin was "White Widow". That said, I have very little experience of White Widow or Jamaican strains, so that could just be total coincidence...

 

[Elevator Man]

No, but it's close, and is on the same trade/smuggling/seed routes - and is also suspected to be 'contaminated' with Dutch strains. But point taken, if it's strictly S. America only we're talking about, I'll keep out...sorry...

 

[maxdrumm]

This was grown by a friend from seeds in the paraguayan brick....some minty-citrus taste, happy sativa high

 

[muddy waters]

beautiful max! i've grown out 4-5 paraguayan brick seeds but have yet to find that one. i'm going to have to keep trying i think!

here's one brick seed that seemed like a pure sativa. it lived for over a year on my balcony and then finally flowered indoors, albeit rootbound with insufficient light and time:




i wish i had some shots of the other brick seed i grew out, which had the more dutch characteristics. i did make some F2s with one brick and the progeny looked like this:

 

[redrider]

The potential in South America

The potential in South America

If things go the way I hope they do the world is going to see the best of South America like never before.

 

[zamalito]

I'm right there with you redrider! In fact there's so much excellent herb in south america that it simply cannot be contained and that's without anyones help. I certainly aim to do my best to help along a rennaisance of south american herb, not that it needs my help in the slightest.

Here's what Lu has given me to work on.

Brasilian Green
Aracaju Red
Manga Rosa
Santa Marta
Columbian Black/Wacky Weed (seeds unbred from region of origin)
Punta Roja (also unbred from region)
Puna Budder (unbred direct from hawaii, I know its not south american but still cool)

I will also be working on reproducing oaxacan and acapulco gold lines (not south american again but still american and very important). I'm also working on a hybrid which is based on the same general origins as skunk 1 but will start being available as an f1. I already have the male selected and its a matter of findig a good suitable santa marta female (which isn't hard). It is a santa marta x (acapulco/deep chunk). This won't be skunky but neither is most sk 1. it will be mostly intended to provide an excellent high which most skunk 1 has failed to do and will hopefully be available in two versions. One which will grow into big plants that finish early to mid october the other will be intended for indoors.

We also hope to get alternate versions of some of the colombians that may be even better than the already excellent ones we have or at the very least show a slightly different type allowing people to select what they prefer. Bolivian and Peruvian genetics aren't too far behind. I'd love to get any opinions on how to prioritize the list of strains and what everyone would like to see. I give much thanks to everyone who has offered their kind words and help. I'm blown away at the level of support that has been offered. With all of the compliments I feel like I'm taking credit for a lot of work and help that has been done by people other than me. In the future I will make sure to relay compliments and kind words to all involved.

 

[zamalito]

i second what brother paz said about 'at a good price'... i don't see why prices couldn't be different according to where the seeds are being shipped... third world growers will rarely be able to afford anything over 30-40 US. the monthly minimum wage in brazil would buy two or three packs. a minimum wage worker in the u.s. meanwhile could afford a pack after one day's work.

I believe the solution to what you and paz are saying is that we need to start having more breeders in places like the caribean south america, southeast asia where there's a lower cost of living. This not only allows us to buy seeds at a price that more of the world can afford but it's also better for the genetics. I can understand why seeds bred in north america or western europe cost as much as they do but find it terrible that people from the great sativa sweet spots can't afford the genetics their ancestors had gathered and bred. In perspective it's not as terrible as not having access to clean drinking water or food but still upsetting.

 

[maxdrumm]

.. third world growers will rarely be able to afford anything over 30-40 US.....you are right Muddy

zamalito: you are doing a great work preserving those south american jewels

Here is a pic from 2004, another plant from paraguayan brick, this time with intense skunk smell


saludos

 

[Slim Pickens]

I believe the solution to what you and paz are saying is that we need to start having more breeders in places like the caribean south america, southeast asia where there's a lower cost of living. This not only allows us to buy seeds at a price that more of the world can afford but it's also better for the genetics. I can understand why seeds bred in north america or western europe cost as much as they do but find it terrible that people from the great sativa sweet spots can't afford the genetics their ancestors had gathered and bred. In perspective it's not as terrible as not having access to clean drinking water or food but still upsetting.

Indeed.

The potential for finding "and preserving" great genetics worldwide in a noble and very necessary endeavor.With everyone cooperating the best that they can,the cause for making genetics affordable can be accomplished.

 

[Guest]

[WRAP="Firstly I believe its a complete failure of the seed industry that classic varieties like santa marta gold, punta roja, highland oaxaca gold, colombian black, acapulco gold, maui waui and kona gold aren't available commercially. I will do my best to make sure that these staples remain available as long as I'm around along with some more exotic varieties manga rosa and a host of brazilian and paraguaian genetics. [/WRAP]

Hi Zam,

My congratulations to both you and Louis, this is good news for the community and sources of Landrace derived stocks are too few and far between. It is excellant news for Louis and BSC, im very pleased too for the genetics too bro, they are in good hands.

Zam, as we all know the seed business is not really interested in these varieties, it is the connisuer cultivators and conservationists who are. Its too much for a commercial seed comany of the Dutch variety to handle, truth about genetic origins, when they where created and by whom just slip them by, they dont really know and you cant preserve anything that way. Everything ends up the same cluster fuck high. Boring, big yeilding and fast yes. All commercial, none connisuer, no disrespects intended.

You are right about the location of breeders, firstly for the plants, you cannot do this work indoor under lights, its simply not possible to maintain these plants this way and for them to express correctly. The Colombo Blackbud we have is 1.25 years! in growth amd flower here to finish the full plant. The creeper a nightmare indoor and can be even longer Outdoor. Same with a few others from Equatorial south America.

These need maintaining outdoor in the tropics, in natural habitats and working for acclimatisation in Southern Europe and California where possible to be usefull, with seperate lines and hybrids created for the Indoor grower and medi user to get a taste of the highs and qualities of these leganadry strains, created from the heart by people who understand the parental lines completely or it just dont work.

Most importantly i feel they need to be available to the world through a commercial seedbank. This will lead to 'open source' breeding where all the world has the access to the highest quality of genetics there are, not just a few inner circles, who cannot think beyond and i think significant steps in hybridisation could be taken with authentic and correct sources of elite Landrace genetics. Im sure, 100% we are only at the begining, maybe not even that far and thats why the work is so vital.

I cant believe we dont see the Creeper phenotype of Colombian Cannabis in modern hybrids can you? the high is extroidinary, scary even! just keeps on taking you wherever she wants to go, usually up! our generation has almost bred this common phenotype of South American derived Cannabis Cultivars out of the modern DCP, must be because they dont like the way she grows. Shame on them. You, I and many, many lucky others know what they are missing.

I wish you, Louis and all at BSC all the best for the venture. It is great to see you stepping up to the mark as a commercial breeding company. I am sure the plant will smile upon your heartfelt endevours too!

Viva Sativa!

My bests, Queijo

 

[zamalito]

Thanks queijo! You're doing some very good work yourself.

Actually I've never had the pleasure to work with or even see a south american creeper pheno. I've only seen that occur in person with what looke to me to be a thai. It sounds very impressive though. I haven't worked with the colombian black yet but from your description it sounds intimidating and I may push it back working with it a bit if its a semi-perennial variety.

I really like the point you made about hybridizing and how if we go back to the point where we know exactly what were working with and know it well we can then produce hybrids with much greater potential than what's being currently produced. I really like the possibilities of hybrids made with either indeterminate or creeper phenotypes. Anyways I look forward to much cooperation in the future.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

south american andes. north

south american andes. north











these innocent looking horses stepped on some plants i had left half way to the spot.



the kicked victims are/were (because i know not if they have survived) three malawi gold seedlings, three skunk #1, 1 swazi red.
a pic of some of them and how they looked after i moved them to a safe location and ¨fixed¨ them.


paz.

 

[zamalito]

I bet they'll survive especially the swazi and malawi. Can't wait to see what they do out there. I can't wait to see some south american guys grow these 150 day flower colombian blacks. I wish we could find some info on the origins or traditional cultivation techniques of this strain or a picture of the original bud.