the potential in south america

[Guest]

I hope you do find the real Santa Maria so we can see what the real thing is like, the No Mercy Seeds version is on my 'to grow' list, I've smoked Planck in Holland and it was very good, the Dutch class it as a white strain but it was much better in taste and effect that White Widow or Ice, or other whites, potency was up there with other whites too.

I'm getting very excited about the goodies coming out of Brazil and Colombia, now we need someone to go to Africa!

 

[zamalito]

Yeah, you're right bh. Its sad that every african seed company always sticks to the usual swazi, durban and malawis. Fortunately la mano negra has brought us some absolutely wonderful lines from the atlantic coast and central africa that have never been made available by any seed company.

 

[Raco]

hehe Raco no when i really wanna get high i roll up a fatty tucunaré. serious stuff, just take a look at my dealer's eyes:

Nice one MW
I love South American cichilds!Your dealer is stoked eh?
Here are some basses (Dicentrarchus labrax) that we fished the other day...one of the finest and super expensive fishes there is...at least here It´s very potent too

One Q:
What about the "cerita paraguaya",is it the south american hash?
Here´s 1/4 kg of moroccan hash:

 

[muddy waters]

yo raco, que cerita paraguaya? you mean the (world?) famous charaguay? it looks like little rat turds... smells slightly better... kind of overpriced... nothing explosive about the high... hmmm... i think the moroccans, nepalese, pashtuns, persians, lebanese, indians can all rest easy, the south american hash isn't going to come in and take the market any time soon... ha... but i bought it a few times and i will again, to take pics

very nice catch, i hope you've got plenty of herbs and garlic to roast those with... i miss the taste of golden and rainbow trout to be honest with you, no mountains high enough here for them

zamalito--sounds awesome, man... you headed back here or doing this long distance? and don't forget to practice your cumbia step if not redwill give you lessons he has it down i'm sure... heheh

 

[muddy waters]

what's up with santa maria? it's a sativa or some post-1970's hybrid? i've been asked about this strain a few times and have no idea what it is. i know a few daime folk but the ones that grew were growing bagseed.

re: african strains, there's a member named Charles Xavier who seems to have a lot of experience with landrace sativas, zamalito you might want to get in touch with him since you don't seem to be busy with anything else

 

[zamalito]

Muddy, "I shall return!" the other academic contact you'd given me turned up finally. He's going to take me on 2-3 more expeditions to the northeast the amazon and one other state which my memory is failing me. Check your email tomorrow morning.

Hey raco, Muddy will have to tell you the story of when when we met a dentist posing as a sambista (in brazil dentists and samba teachers wear the same uniform) told us the story of how charaguay is made. He definitely had a talent for embellishment. I don't know if I have enough grains of salt for everyone to take for this story but apparently the charaguai is made from when the compress the kilos (the most compressed mexican brick I've ever seen isn't close to being as compressed as paraguaian herb) in hot humid weather and the resin that accumulates on the side of the brick is scraped off to be used for hash. I didn't fully understand the whole translation of whole involvement with "cannabis soup" and how it made the "mansaguaba" superior. Perhaps that's best left to muddy.

 

[muddy waters]

i'd be happy to buy a little manssaguaba from that dentist in exchange for a dental check up problem is when i got there i'd find out the guy is really a sambista...

that manssaguaba story was like zamalito tells it, only i think the charaguay is something else because a) the process in the manssaguaba story as told was that the resulting resin liquid extract from compressing the brick is then poured all over the brick as if it were a syrup and then left to dry as if this made any sense at all to do instead of letting the resin dry on the plant or removing the resin and processing it alone, and b) charaguay appears to really be hand-rubbed, or hand formed from fallen kief richards. it doesn't look professional but i know enough people who have had it to realize it must be. but anything is possible from the people who brought you hashish with all the plant matter seeds twigs some leaf left in it, which is what the brick is. when it gets older and dry the shit tears you apart as much as you tear it apart, people use scissors or a chainsaw but i'm old school i dig my nails in and breath the ammonia.

anyway think i'm gonna go get some homemade manssaguaba juice... nice to hear you're headed back zamalao

 

[ngakpa]

smoked some Santa Maria with Santo Daime people - it's certainly very nice, and potent, but I suspect - as I think Zamalito does - that it is not landrace, but for sure a post '70s hybrid

the high is certainly one worth pursuing - it is very even, notably visual, "modern" in feel, but spiritual too

 

[Thule]

Santa Maria is supposed to be only 2/3 sativa. No one seems to know how and when the indica got there

I've only smoked Santa Maria in hybrids, the most famous being LR#2, and even when mixed with LR the smoke was good. Real good.

I've made loads of crosses with the LR#2 that are fully autoflowering. I find it muito legal that I'll be having Brazilian genetics growing here out in the wild only a few hundred kilometrers away from the polar circle.

 

[zamalito]

This raises an interesting question about when indica genetics were being introduced to Brazil. Even as early as the 1950's a small percentage of Brazilian cannabis users were using hashish regularly. I've frequently heard of seeds being found in very high quality afghan hashish. Then you take into account the fact that brazil has received immigrants from all over the world for hundreds of years. This leaves us with absolutely no clue about when the brazilians were growing indicas or indica hybrids. There are some very nice brazilian hybrid strains that made there way into the u.s from the late 70's and early 80's. I great example is the sunshine ibl from hill temple collective. I really want to try to return this strain to brazil soon to see what it becomes after reacclimating to the country of origin.

 

[ngakpa]

These are some new releases from Soundway Records and should please fans of things Colombian


Colombia! The golden age of Discos Fuentes, the Powerhouse of Colombian music

Discos Fuentes (Fuentes Records) has since 1934 been the largest label in the vast country of Colombia, a place where music is impossible to escape. This collection concentrates on the golden years of 1960-1976 and is hand-picked by Soundway from a huge catalogue of hot, tropical music styles. Cumbia, Gaita, Fandago, Salsa and Champeta all feature in our selection from one of the world's best Latin music archives.

Phirpo Y Sus Caribes

Killer Colombian Funk! Phirpo Y Sus Caribes were a mysterious band from Medellin who recorded this blistering cover version of Fela's 'Let's Start' - an Afro Latin Funk masterpiece! (This track is exclusive to the 45) Lito Barrientos - originally from El Salvador - toured Colombia from the 50's to the 70's, where he produced this Cumbia classic that gets people out of their seats wherever its played! (Also featured on the Soundway Album 'Colombia! the Golen Years of Discos Fuentes, the Powerhouse of Colombian Music, 1960-1976').

For Brazilian tunes check out Diaspora Records

 

[zamalito]

I'm gonna have to check those out ngakpa. Muddy gave me my first cumbia compilation. It has a permanent place in my ipod.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Santa Maria is supposed to be only 2/3 sativa. No one seems to know how and when the indica got there

Depends on which Santa Maria you are referring to. The Santa Maria that's being sold by No Mercy was backcrossed using a Silver Pearl, but I haven't got a clue if the original Brazilian plant already had some indica mixed in.

 

[Thule]

I guess I'm talking about the one that was renamed to Planck.

I just realized that indica in Brazil might not be anything new. There is a big arab population there, especially in Manaus, Belem and elsewhere in the vicinity of the Amazon. They surely took the cannabis culture with them. It makes me think.

 

[bongoman]

Speaking of Colombia, music and marijuana, this doco is worth a look:

"Shotguns and Accordions - Music of the Marijuana Growing Regions of Colombia (1983)"

It's nearly 25 years old but probably of interest to someone out there.

 

[Guest]

God this thread has taught me so much, just one of the best ever!

 

[muddy waters]

bongoman--shotguns and accordeons is like my holy grail, the pirate roots dvd i've never been able to find online. i've been dying to see it for years. one day. but one that is easily downloaded (through emule, bittorrent, other sources) is a documentary, part of the same series made for BBC1 by the same director, jeremy marre, that 'shotguns and accordeons' was done by, on jamaican music called "roots rock reggae" that is foundational for those interested in jamaica, cannabis, music, animism, politics in the third world.

thule--interesting theory but the arabs in brazil are recent immigrants who fled lebanon during the civil war and israeli attacks of the early 80s. i don't know if that's what you meant by new or not. little doubt though they brought lots of 'know-how' with them, they (along with chinese, koreans, some brazilians) run the enormous tax-free pirate electronics smörgåsbord known as ciudad del este or the brazil-paraguay border. this is interestingly not very far from where most of the cannabis consumed in brazil is grown. also not very far from where the u.s. is building its newest military base, and one of the public (ie not true) justifications for the base is the "money laundering and terrorist networks" in the vicinity, meaning the lebanese community there. the real reason the u.s. wants a base there, and the reason the bush family just bought several hundred thousand acres nearby, is that it sits on top of one of the largest freshwater aquifers in south america.

as if that isn't enough stoner theorizing, something else should be mentioned... one brazilian musician who comes from the northeastern desert, where most of the brazilian domestic product is grown, sometimes mentions during his interludes in concert the traces of arab culture that ended up there, in the brazilian NE, a remnant of the period that the berbers were dominant in the iberian peninsula. (hundreds of years later the iberians colonized latin america.) whether that has anything to do with cannabis probably depends on whether the berbers who dominated the iberian peninsula from around 700 to 1200 something, and lasted in granada until the 1500s, had cannabis with them. i would need to know more about the berbers and moroccan history of cannabis to even venture a guess.

 

[Raco]

Thx you all for the good info and excellent read

 

[muddy waters]

also zamalito i trust that luis told you the 'fumo da lata' story...

for those who don't know, apparently in the 1980s i believe, a large, large shipment of cannabis in "cans" (i assume metal barrels?) shipwrecked somewhere and currents brought the merchandise to the coast of rio de janeiro state in brazil. it was many many kilos of herb, supposedly. it washed up on the beaches steadily for several weeks over a span of many kilometers of coast line. no one knows where it was coming from exactly, some say holland, some say australia, it's a total crap shoot. and as is the case with these things, if there were a thousand people who actually saw and smoked this stuff at the time, today there must be 100,000 who claim to have. but one of my cannabista friends who claimed first hand knowledge was certain that the 'fumo da lata' was indica, and was the first time that anything other than the traditional loose packed sativa was seen by urban smokers in rio and sao paulo (this is before the super compressed paraguayan brick). the 'fumo da lata' became legendary for its potency and for, i imagine, the crazy story of some tanker carrying tons of barrels of herb. it really sounds like some ridiculous stoner story until you hear dozens of people repeating it.

 

[zamalito]

While shopping for a camera in brazil Luiz gave me a crash course in the brazilian underground electronics scene. Its totally nuts. Brazil has insanely high taxes on imported electronics. An ipod that would be $250 in the states is the equivalent of $650 at a legitimate electronice store in sao paulo. While in the korean market the tax officials came and these guys had a whole table of merchandise packed up hidden and were running away in 2-3 seconds of the tax officials being spotted. It was truly impressive.

What muddy said about needing a chainsaw to get into the paraguaian brick herb is no exaggeration. With mexican brick you can peel the buds off one layer at a time. This is not possible with paraguaian. It has to be sawed or scraped off. The crazy thing is from what I saw the paraguaians are using much more potent genetics than the mexican brick seeds I've grown in the past.