the potential in south america

[zamalito]

I don't know if it's possible but ideally we could design a system the works in a cellular typ structure where whenever possible individuals serve an independent function aside from functioning together as a whole. Should the structure break down. In brasil luiz and I (actually just luiz) have connections in the areas of high concentrations of landrace varieties. We plan to make largescale distributions direct from source. Unfortunately it seems the high quality colombians may not be available in the quantities to do this straight from the source. Maybe its not true but I wish the guys that have the really large seed stocks in colombia weren't typically involved with organized crime. I'm getting way ahead of myself and impractical and it would take a lot of balls but it would be really cool to see a program put in place to educate illicit tropical landrace growing plantation owners on the benefits of genetic preservation, work to redistribute seeds landrace to these growers from their region of origin, and work to keep them in existance.

 

[strained]

This new discussion is fascinating.
And the idea of a non-profit landrace seedbank is a great one which I would love to see be realized at some point in time.

 

[deadM]

Im not against landraces being sold at all personally, just that they must be preserved first to my mind.

so we had to send you all our landraces and you preserve them and sell seeds.

Isn't it Hijack on the Thread? it wasn't commercial side of potential before.

Free sharing is possible..you had to choose firsts people

 

[Guest]

so we had to send you all our landraces and you preserve them and sell seeds.

Isn't it Hijack on the Thread? it wasn't commercial side of potential before.

Free sharing is possible..you had to choose firsts people

It is true however that free-sharing has its limits, mainly restricted to your phyical friends and "internet" friends, whereas a professionnal seedsellers distribute wider the strain.

Disappearance of some old school strains has shown the limits of the "inner circle" approach, I'm afraid of.

This said, it's not me that will take the risk of building a seed co Most people (and I was one the first of them) don't like to see business linked with canna but I think it may in fact necessary to distribute massively the strains, but is quite risky in our world. Zamalito has the balls to try

Rahan

 

[Guest]

Hello All,

so we had to send you all our landraces and you preserve them and sell seeds.

This thread isnt or wasnt about selling Landraces. Secondly they are not yours or anyone elses, they belong to Mother Nature and traditional Farmers of country of origin. For my own personal position, fwiw, im not at all interested in the commercial aspects of Landrace seeds, but I am in the preservation of them as best as we can do. If there is any possibllity to do something, anything, I will always push for it. Support and help if I am able.

I just dont believe in this circle of friends approach you suggest at all. How does it help preservation, serious research access or anything else. To me it just increases danger for the strain and makes access for all impossible. So I dont think that approach works. As Growingfury has well said, unless you have seed distribution then there is no free access. Its proven beyond doubt to be a recipe for disater for the plant.

I have said that as soon as there is a reputable seed distributor for Landraces they can have any stocks I have and strains held by me to take care of, share them, do the job correctly and I want nothing financially in return. I dont want to be part of any seed company, ever again. Selling Landraces without preservation is BioPiracy to me, its a very fine personal balance and a personal decision any seedsman would have to make alone.

Im pushing hard for preservation within the community as I know behind the scenes there are moves to patent Landrace Drug Cultivars sourced from country of origin. This may be just possibly be for legitimate reasons, but I suspect and fear it has very dark ulterior financial motives that will harm Cannabis forever.

Already there are Cannabis Cultivars, patented and owned by Pharmacutical companies, now they know the benefits and have the finnacial strengths and huge market potential for Cannabis derived products, how long do you think it will be before they start implementing their own collection and genetic research and storage operations?

I can tell you, they are right now and they wont stop with just collecting strains, that wont give them the 'competitive advantages' and control in the 'market' they seek, they will want to own and deny access to any other and they will find ways of doing so for sure.

All the best, Flowers

 

[zamalito]

Seeds that come out of samples of landrace herb picked up in the region of origin should be free. Other than that it's serious work reproducing these seeds and I have absolutely no way to make these seeds and give them away for free. I'm leaving a comfortable and somewhat lucrative life to do this. I have no intention of getting rich, neither does luiz but that doesn't mean that it isn't necesary to have a good business sense. It is literally 1000 times easier to sell f1's made with stock you've purchased or take an elite cutting and contract some pollen from dj short. By bringing bsc back we will hopefully either convince the f1 breeders to go back to basics and start making their f1's with our stock of documented background or hopefully if they cannot evolve they'll be left behind. Unfortunately the free market is one of the most powerful concepts created by man. It is our intent by introducing amounts of landrace seeds to use the free market to cause the seed industry to evolve into something where we can know the background of the hybrids available. If I was independently wealthy I'd probably be doing the same thing but for free because this is something I enjoy. However I'm not enjoying something is simply not enough for me to be able to spend money to help get luiz land to work again, move to brazil myself, start producing seeds with large open pollinations. I'm very fond of groups like strainguide. I'm planning to have a close relationship with them. Every bsc strain will be given to them in sufficient quantities for free to hold should on to should something happen to us. I could look into a paid membership style situation for bsc. I have doubts about it working but I'm willing to look into it.

 

[muddy waters]

zamalito your approach is encouraging, i want to do what i can to help you. i made the following suggestion before once, but maybe it's worth repeating: publishing accurate cannibinoid information and parentage, no bullshit, would really set your operation apart from the dutch scene in my opinion.

(i noticed on the world of seeds thread that they claim to do a gas chromotography and whatnot. i asked our friend british hempire if he could take pictures of their seed packaging, as he just bought the pakistani valley seeds, so we could have an idea. but world of seeds' website already doesn't exist anymore. hmm. maybe it was that 20,000 they spent on the gas chromotography equipment.)

anyway this goes hand in hand with the educational aspect, since reliable data about cannabinoid content of specific strains or cultivars is out of reach for most cannabis users. and thus far seed companies seem reluctant to provide this information, or even seek it out to begin with. i think a seed company that did do this would really separate itself. but perhaps that requires a laboratory and too much capital diverted from the basic endeavor to grow and produce seed. but the educational service done by providing that data to users might be seen as a philanthropic cause for some of the wealthier members of the cannabis community (they're out there).

anyway bud i'm just giving you food for thought, i don't know if it's useful or not. follow your own star and all of that.

 

[deadM]

I trust you Zamalito,maybe because i think the same...

 

[DarkGreen]

I have the book called Marijauna Chemistry by Michael Starks. It is rather fascinating on how different the cannabinoid content varies form strain to strain. The book talked about Colombian bud in this book very extensively. They talked about bud that was grown in the highland and the lowland in many parts of South America. Also mentioned were the many different types of bud grown in Panama, South East Asia, India, Middle East, Europe, United States, Mexico, and other central American countries. When I went online to look up any seed breeders of these varieties(esp the Colombian Black and Red), I was sad to not find any. I know that these strains take 16-20 weeks from seed to harvest, but I would love to put these into a greenhouse in a remote location. I'd have to wish upon a star for that.

As others in this post have mentioned, it would be nice to grow these landrace strains. I wish that people would be able to provide these rare seeds. It would be awesome to create your own hybrids from a "pure" sativa variety and a "pure" indica variety. And the definition of pure is different from who you talk to, but I am sure that a few know what kind of pure I mean, as Zamalito mentioned. I would love to have seeds from strains Colombian Black, Colombian Red, Panama Red or Punto Roja, Highland Oaxacan, Michoacan, Hawaiian, Jamaican, etc.....It would be cool to customize your own strain to suit your needs as a grower/comsumer. But it would be imperative to keep your pure sativa mother/father/seeds untouched from other strains to keep they way the seeds aught to be.

I dream at night to live on a private ranch in southern Mexico, or any other latin american country. I would love to have a large ranch/farm. Starting seedlings/clones indoors hydroponically for a number of 3-16 weeks to grow in veg, then placed out under the equatorial sky to flower in that 365 day per year nearly 12/12 hour daylight schedule. It would be nice to breed for quality seeds. Only a dream. Maybe if I hit the lottery??

 

[zamalito]

Yeah, starkes is great. I have mj potency but it was written in the 70's and have wanted to get mj chemistry for a while. Do you know what he says about the various colombian varieties? If you could summarize it for us it would be great.

 

[Mad Scientist]

I would love to have a large ranch/farm. Starting seedlings/clones indoors hydroponically for a number of 3-16 weeks to grow in veg, then placed out under the equatorial sky to flower in that 365 day per year nearly 12/12 hour daylight schedule.

Just a small side-note on that. If you start them on hydro and transplant them to soil you're in for trouble. The roots adapt to either hydro or soil, so switching mediums will probably not make them very happy plants. :wink:

The thought of creating your own cross adapted to your own specific needs sounds well cool though. I'm very curious about what my newly acquired Ecuador seeds will bring me. I'm hoping on a relatively fast finishing plant I don't have to fiddle with amongst them. The effects of the brickweed weren't that strong, but the type of high that smoothened out into a mellow stone after a while pleased me a lot. A little more vigour and I'm all done.

 

[strained]

bump?

 

[DarkGreen]

MJ Chemistry Starks......

MJ Chemistry Starks......

Yeah, starkes is great. I have mj potency but it was written in the 70's and have wanted to get mj chemistry for a while. Do you know what he says about the various colombian varieties? If you could summarize it for us it would be great.

Zamalito,

The book I have is from 1977 and 1990. It is written mostly from 1977, but there are some updates as well.

Starks mentioned that most mj smokers will agree that the world's strongest marijuana comes from Colombia, Thailand, and Hawaii, but these strains are often ignored by researchers. He mentions that different cannabinoid content varies with the plant's metabolism. Much hotter climates like India and SE Asia are found to have significantly more CBN. Plants that are also grown in hotter climates, such as the ones from India, Nepal, Afghan, Pakistan, S. Africa, and Indonesia, are shown to have more THCV and CBDV. Especially when the temps are higher, as the book mentioned an increase from 22 deg C to 32 deg C caused the increase. Temperatures are often hotter when one gets closer to the equator. So I would imagine that if one were to grow a Colombian Gold plant in Panama, it would be stronger in cannabinoid content than a Colombian Gold plant that would have been grown in Miami, FLA. So in summary, in order to produce the plants with the highest psychoactive cannabinoid conent, is to have the best environment for your plants. Also when you harvest your plants is another topic of a rather remarkable gap in cannabinoid variations. Probably the reason for lack of research on the mariajuana strains from Colombia, Hawaii, and Thailand is that the environments that these strains grow in are hard to replicate to perfection. Much of the research is done in Mississippi, and the mexican varieties are of closer proximity to that area. The climate of Mississippi would probably be closer to that of Mexico given the geography. Shit man, even the environment of Afghanistan mountains, even temperature wise is similar to the temperate regions of the US, is extremely hard to synthesize in a lab.

The book said that the best mj has a THC content of 8 to 10 percent. As I stated above, strains from Colombia, Hawaii, and Thailand are the strongest as far as THC content is measured. When other strains from other countries are talked about, the book makes a constant comparison to the strains from these three countries. The book mentions that plants from S.Africa have almost zero CBD content compared to any other strain on the planet. It stated that even though most Mexican strains of mj are sativa, they are slightly lower in THC and somewhat higher in CBD content when compared to strains from Colombia.

Another topic that the book points out is the introduction of Indica genes into the once dominant Sativa plants that were popular before the early 1970's. Two guys named Selgnij and Clarke stated that the intro of indica genes have caused mj to have a decreased potency, worsening flavor, and lacking in variation of high(making the high flatter). The book stated that there are plenty of genetic variability in sativa plants, and it is better to find a Sativa plant that is of early flowering and/or ones that mature faster. This is the reason for my interest in this thread. It would be great to find an early flowering/fast maturing Colombian variety that has great potency and taste and breed it with a Skunk#1, or a Northern Lights, or another indica/sativa hybrid that finishes flowering in 8 weeks. This is what sparked my interest. We could keep the flowering time down, but increase the potency and variation of the high. Plus the sounds of everyone else's posts, it sounds that Colombian strains have a lot to offer in terms of flavor.

I also believe that the growers all over the planet should preserve the genetics of landrace strains. With all the increased hybridization of current mj strains, even creating a hybrid with good intent, genetics should always be preserved! I am sure that there are some growers who are concerned about this, and I am happy to see that there are many people on here who are interested. That's why I agree with Zamalito on keeping the landrace seeds free from any monetary value. But with any type of work, there is always a price for the labor. However with this in mind, the seeds should be of a lower price even though they may be of great value.

 

[DarkGreen]

Just a small side-note on that. If you start them on hydro and transplant them to soil you're in for trouble. The roots adapt to either hydro or soil, so switching mediums will probably not make them very happy plants. :wink:

The thought of creating your own cross adapted to your own specific needs sounds well cool though. I'm very curious about what my newly acquired Ecuador seeds will bring me. I'm hoping on a relatively fast finishing plant I don't have to fiddle with amongst them. The effects of the brickweed weren't that strong, but the type of high that smoothened out into a mellow stone after a while pleased me a lot. A little more vigour and I'm all done.

I knew of a grower who took his plants outdoors after a month of a hydro stint, and for years ended up with a fantastic crop. It's probably very hard to do, but he had the best weed around. Where the source of information came from at the time, I highly doubt that this was possible. There are a lot of rumors that float around smokers on where the origins of a certain type of grass comes from. Now that I look back on it, I think that you may be right Mad Scientist

Yeah...to breed/hybridize for your customized strain would be a dream. Having a strain that delievers a nice energetic & uplifting, non paranoia type high...and then having another strain that is very narcotic like putting one to sleep, but still tasting very good.....and then maybe another that reaps massive yields, finishes faster than 8 weeks, and has an extremely awesome potency.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Great info on those Colombian strains and cannabinoid content DarkGreen! I don't know whether I've read it in this very thread or somewhere else, but I recall a breeder saying Haze are best used in crosses by taking the male plant for this. If you take a female Skunk plant for example, which is roughly 15% THC and cross it with a 5-10% THC Haze male, you can end up with a F1 cross of 22% THC! Just took some hypothetical figures here, but my point is haze is often a great source for 'hybrid vigour' and I'm wondering if that's partly because of the influences of South American strains involved... I'm under the impression that somehow these South American strains make great breeding strains by improving vigour of the hybrid it's used for.

Regarding the transplant from hydro to soil, here's some pictures I saved from OG. I'm not sure who officially took them, but I hope the photographer won't mind me posting his pics here. They quite clearly show the difference in structure between roots in soil and roots in a hydro set-up. As long as new roots are still formed these will probably take over he task from the existing (hydro) roots, but I'm pretty sure a translplant like that will slow the plants down in growth. Maybe the roots themselves will adapt to the new environment as well, but it should take some time. So your story about that outdoor grower sounds plausible, but it's not a method without risk.




Sorry for the distraction. Back to the South American sativas now! :wink:

 

[redrider]

Two strains I want to create are Colombian Haze (Pure Haze inbreed at high altitude in Colombia) and a Colombian grown "skunk" hybrid looking for that RKS pheno.

 

[redrider]

Colombian SourJack

Colombian SourJack

Colombian grown (growing) "SourJack".



I have 3 SourJack females, all started at the same time but this girl is out growing them all.


Happy family- NLXHaze, ColombianXAfghan and SourJack.

Peace from Colombia 12 26 06

 

[redrider]

High Altitude Tropical Indica

High Altitude Tropical Indica

Anyone feeling me on how good these will come out grown here in the tropical Andes?



SQ


SatoriXWhiteSkunk 1


SatoriXWhiteSkunk 2

 

[Raco]

First of all:
Happy New Year...thx for this nice thread
redrider,
just thought that you´d enjoy this: :wink:

 

[redrider]

Ah yes the "Punto Rojo" is truly one of Colombia's most potent treats (if you can find it). Very interesting write up and pics Raco.

Muchas Gracias