The Mill's Pride Club

[przcvctm]

Listen to the majority and take it easy.

Take it easy? It wasn't my intention to rock the boat of what feels like some sort of sacred established orthodoxy on how the C13 is to be utilized properly. Sumo, I should have probably mentioned that while I was foolish enough to "use Boo math" (that's all there was at the time) to figure intake area, I modified Maliboo's original plan by putting in a permanent shelf 12" down from the top. That space contains my fan, ballast and electrical connections. That means that with my light up all the way to the top, I only have 42" of vertical to work with. I can't grow tall plants. I've had a Blueberry stretch and eat my light. This is the reason why I have to do "more work" trying to grow horizontally. Hence, the idea of the wide bank of T-5s close to and covering the entire screen instead of an HID.

I think I'll take this elsewhere. New ideas should not cause drama nor offense. If my avatar crack caused any, I apologize.

 

[Guest]

C13 upgrade question - adding a air cooled reflector???

C13 upgrade question - adding a air cooled reflector???

Hoping that someone using an air cooled hood in a cabinet can help me with this one.

I wish to upgrade my C13 from 250 to 400 and add an air cooler shade/reflector/hood.

Currently I have a 6" Vortex mounted outside pulling out the top and directly into a carbon filter with passive intakes in the floor.

Do I just connect duct from the new hood to the exhaust and have the Vortex pull air from the cabinet, through the hood and out?

Peace

 

[nomoreschwag]

Hash - I'm using a very similar set-up to what you're describing. 4" Vortex instead of a 6" and darkroom vents sound like the differences. This picture without any plants shows how it works pretty good. 400w air cooled from HTGsupply, 4" Vortex hanging from the ceiling pushing into a big ass carbon filter on top of my cab. All the air that comes into the cab comes through the lavour into the vent hole on top of the hood and then through the ducting till it hits the carbon and returns to the room. Oh, its a c25, dont know what the dimension differences are between that and a c13.

 

[Guest]

nomoreschwag,

Thanks for the help. Do you have tempered glass in the hood? How close can you get it to the plants and do you know what the penetration of a 400W is?

Now all have to decide is whether to install the light upgrade or, add CO2 and a controller of some kind.

Any and all input welcome.

 

[nomoreschwag]

Yes, I have the glass in the hood. Right now my canopy is 5 inches from the glass so maybe 6-7ish from the bulb with no burning/bleaching of any kind. The buds have to be touching the glass to actually burn, slight leaf bleaching seems to start around 3-4 inches from the glass. I don't have a light meter so I don't know the exact point where my light starts to suck, but I keep my plants about 2ft tall, much taller than that and lower bud production really starts to suffer imo.

I've also considered adding co2 to get my buds to the next level.
Some one correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I think you would have to go about it in a mills pride... My understanding of co2 is that its only useful with lights on so ventilation of the cab itself would have to be seperate from the light/heat so that it could be closed and turned off during co2 enrichment while running a seperate exhaust through a cool tube or air cooled hood and ducting to keep temps in check. If you didn't have two ventilation systems the cab would quickly overheat if turned off or the co2 would be exhausted so fast with the one fan still running that the plants never get the chance to benefit from the extra co2. I'm sure this could all be set up successfully, but it seemed like alot of extra work to me. It is one of the few upgrades that I can think of that the cab can get at this point...

 

[hidingtree]

hey hash , !! all is well i see . good to see you upgrading to a 400w .!! are you running an octagon reflector with your 250 (no lens right?). ok so with the vortex 6" you should be good to go as far as heat ... although there is a difference of radiant heat with the 400w ... hence the need possibly(most likely ) for a lens in such a small environment IMHO .most reflectors are indeed tight in the c13 cabs. however, nomorescwag's looks ok for air flow . the one thing that may be noticeable is a difference in the finished flowers ....hmmmm interesting ya? ok so the theory goes like this the use of lenses/glass does cut down on the uv-a and uv-b colors of light and ??? (vesus just the bulb directly to the plants .) you could get a reflector that accomodates lens &400w (dont forget the 6" fittings or however many cm's that is ...)and test it out with air being extracted through the un lensed and the lensed .just don't burn your plants . with a lens i would say u could get maybe 6"(maybe closer ) away from tops safely. i don't know about un lensed though .with air at the rate of 260 cfm passing through you will be able to touch the lens and it will be only warm to the touch (really ) i use a cool tube 400w and it works well . i use only a 4 inch eco plus (similar to vortex) and the temps are prob 10 deg F above ambient . the penetration alone of a 400w in a c 13 is good regardless of proximity of lights to plants. again,IMHO.canopy shades as canopy does .ok . e nuff from me fer now .... good luck, many blessings , hidingtree

 

[hidingtree]

just an aside hash ... the co2 and controller may up the yield 50% i've read .... the 400w upgrade hmmmm .... decisions ,decisions ....co 2 and flo is not only fatter but better ?? hmmmmm.... and after all that ramble (less uv a, uv b, light filtered through lens ..bla bla bla ... doh!)... i might go with the co2 ... haven't tried it yet .....ok many blessings ,may all be well , hidingtree

 

[sumo]

Hash. Growing in the shed gives extreme conditions. If you could move grow into basement ambient temps could be stabilized. I grow in an undisclosed basement and don't need glass or air cooled hood. Plants can get 6 " from bulb and not get burned from hot glass. I keep my bulb "In" the canapy.The tops of end plants on outside are above bulb and light hits the side of outside plants. Mal had it right with those computer fans. In the beginning they strengthen stems then you move them right behind light and they blow cool air constantly across light.



That is only a 4" vortex. At worst my cab runs 10f over ambient. Just trying to help simplify. We saw pictures of mass weed hanging in your basement. Couldn't you hide a grow down there? That is what these cabs are designed to do. Be inconspicuous. I even had my stinky buds hanging in a box in mine for a week with the fan running through carbon filter to keep smell down.

 

[Guest]

Great input and ideas.

This is the reflector that I would use if I go that route:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6079C13_in_action_day4_flower.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2329c-13-4001.jpg


Anyone remember (ha) or measure the gain in yield when moving from a 250 to a 400?

I will monitor the 250W temps with the fan off for 15 minutes to see what I might expect in terms of a rise. I could only imagine what a glass hooded 400 off for 15 minutes would do.

sumo, the basement was only being borrowed. Right now outdoor temps are 45F with my C13 temps 61/79 with lights on at night 12/12. Drying in the C13 works great.

 

[nomoreschwag]

hidingtree.most reflectors are indeed tight in the c13 cabs. however, nomorescwag's looks ok for air flow . the one thing that may be noticeable is a difference in the finished flowers ....hmmmm interesting ya?

Because of a tempered lense, air flow, or both? I'm curious about this, I'm always interested in new ideas to ponder

Right now my cab runs about 1.5 deg above ambient temp of my closet. The closet runs about 6 above the rest of the house. Air temps at soil level stay in the 70's while at the glass it tends to run high 70's-80's, but thats getting radiant heat from the light too...

Sumo - I wish I could run my light that close to my plants with that style of reflecter. Perfect example of how what works for you isn't going to work for the rest of us. I have the exact same light/reflector (HTG?) sitting in a box because I couldn't keep it under 90 hardly. Thinking about buying a new hood for that one and having dual 400's...

Here's what she looked like a couple minutes ago. 3 NL's and two different seedlings. I took clones from both of the new ones before flowering. I hope at least one of them turns out good so I can add a new mother to the mix.

NL 47days

 

[hidingtree]

hey no more schwag , sorry if i was unclear . the use of the lens greatly reduces the light waves of certain frequency . one engineer friend of mine noticed differences in the use of exposed and lensed bulb and that the quality of those grown under the exposed bulb was greater .( higher density of trichromes etc.) i havent conducted the experiment yet ...some day though .i'm pretty happy with what i'm blessed wit . . ok many blessings , hidingtree

 

[nomoreschwag]

hidingtree Thanks bro. My buds kinda sucked without the hood, but then again the temps were way out of control... I might see how it goes without the glass, but my plants are doing so good now, I'm not in a real big hurry to make alot of changes at the moment Thanks for the input and clarification

Me and my grow partner are working on a new seed order. I know this is a subject thats been beat to death, so I'll fine tune it a tad...anyone have suggestions for strains that grow particularly well in a cab like this, especially under a 400?? or is about anything gona work well if done correctly?

 

[stinkleaf]

hey sumo how did you hook up those computer fans? ive built a computer before but i thought you had to run them through the power supply of the computer because arent they a different voltage from the standard plug in the wall just curious cuz im having heat issues with the light and i have a c1 so im limited on space otherwise i would have went to an aircooled hood

stinkleaf

 

[nomoreschwag]

stinkleaf Ya I learned the hard way that computer fans can't be plugged strait into the wall... I use two to vent my veg box and they are 12v, I don't know if all comp fans are the same voltage? Anyway, thats the same as a cell phone charger. I just took a couple chargers for phones I didn't have anymore, cut off the part that plugs into the phone and spliced the wires into the fan. Thats the cheap way of how I made mine work, sure there's others.

 

[sumo]

Yes. What NMS said. Although there are 120v computer fans. The vast majority are 12v. Any 12v converter will run them and the current running out of converter is safe and won't shock you.

 

[stretchpuppy]

Great input and ideas.

This is the reflector that I would use if I go that route:

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/6079C13_in_action_day4_flower.jpg

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/2329c-13-4001.jpg


Anyone remember (ha) or measure the gain in yield when moving from a 250 to a 400?

I will monitor the 250W temps with the fan off for 15 minutes to see what I might expect in terms of a rise. I could only imagine what a glass hooded 400 off for 15 minutes would do.

sumo, the basement was only being borrowed. Right now outdoor temps are 45F with my C13 temps 61/79 with lights on at night 12/12. Drying in the C13 works great.

Hash- I use the same hood, Super Sun, in my C13. I originally had it set up Left-Right like those pictures, but someone pointed out to me in the old C13 OG thread you get better light footprint with the hood Front to Back. The bulb sits towards the back of that hood and when it's mounted L-R in leans to one side. It did work out a lot better for me after making that change.

You'll have to trim 1-2" off of the socket bracket for it to sit properly in the cab.

I generally keep it within 6-8 inches under a 400w and a 4" vortex pulling from the hood and pushing into a carbon scrubber on top of the cab, just like your description mentioned. Also the Super Sun uses 4" ducting and the Super Sun 2 uses 6" ducting but it's mounted on the end of the hood not the side. Something to keep in mind as your using a 6" Vortex.

In extreme conditions I've had buds kissing the glass with no major ill effects. Not perfect but gotta do what ya gotta do. Temps in the sumer never go over 85 (usually much lower) and in the fall are lower 70s. I run two cabs in the room. One veg one flower.






(hood off center as I didnt leave enough ducting slack)

 

[Guest]

stretchpuppy,

Thanks man.

Seems odd though that a reflector that the manufacturer states "has better average illuminescence and much better uniformity over a 10 x 10 area" would require front to back orientation in order to get a better footprint in our little C13s?

Peace

 

[nomoreschwag]

sumo sorry if I highjacked your question bro. I just remember watching two fans go up in a puff of blue smoke before I thought about using an adapter and wanted to answer quick before someone else wasted money

 

[bongkong]

Please help with cab questions!

Please help with cab questions!

Hi Guys - old OGer here. I'll keep it short and sweet

1) I used to have a C-13, but I trashed it because my venting was poor (even though I yielded O.K. from it). I didn't know about Home Depot's switch to C-25s. I have a Sun System Cool Sun reflector. It is too big for a C-25. The reflector is 24"x24", and that's WITH ONE SIDE of the vent tube ridges SAWED OFF. I don't know what to do. I need a cabinet - but I'm no carpenter and I'm sure that I would fuq up building one from scratch. Any suggestions? Can I order another C-13 online? Should I call out of town Home Depot's and ask them if they still have any in stock? Would that look suspicious?

2) How in the world does Stoner grow such short, squat, plants with thick-@ss stems and multiple tops??? I mean, I know the FIM technique, but he posted a pic of a plant that looked like a friggin bonzai tree. How did he do it???

Please help with the cab situation. I would toss my reflector...but I'm sure that I paid about $160 for it. It's too expensive to toss. Plus, my remote ballast plugs into the socket...which is INTEGRATED into the reflector.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Bong Kong

 

[Guest]

Hi everyone,

I am going to review this thread more but first....

I am about to put my c25 together and wanted some feedback. I want to use it for bonsai mums, cloning and a veg chamber. I have a seperate room for flower.

I want to make two chambers.

The top will be for mums and clones. The light will be the Agrosun CFL grow lights (4 @2') that I have been using in mother box successfully,

The bottom will be for veg with the same 4 light set up supplemented with 2' t-5's that work well.

I have a 10 small ebb and flow system to prepare the vegging plants to be moved into the waterfarms in my flower room modeled after Hempy the Happy Hedghog.

I have a very quiet blower and a small GH carbon filter. I want to make the chambers as air tight as possible and light proof in case I want to do a test grow in the bottom or make seeds. I have a blockhead male, a sweet tooth male and a SOur Diesel Male all waiting.

My plan was to have the blower in the top chamber, drawing air through 4" vent tube from the bottom chamber and blowing out the carbon filter mounted outside the top.
I wanted to put two 4" darkroom louvers in the top shelf to draw air down from the top chamber into the bottom and up the vent . Then also in the top side panel, two more 4" vents for passive intake.

The plan is to create a flow of fresh air through both chambers with a single blower.
'I figured neoprene weather stripping around the edges where the doors make contact as well as along the shelf edge facing the door would be enough to seal the chambers when the doors are closed.

I got the weather stripping idea from this thread.

Can anyone see any flaws in my plan or post a link so I can get a clearer idea on how to accomplish this. Any response is greatly appreciated.