The Mill's Pride Club

[simon]

im not sure whever to go with a 600w or a 400w. obviously the 600w is more expensive, but will the cost diffrence justify the return. how much yeild diffrence should expect between the two under optimimal conditions?

It's extremely difficult to predict yield, because all things are almost never equal. In a cab like a C22/C24, a 600 has the advantage due to its dispersion. One can hang the light a little higher than a 400 and get coverage in the corners of the box. I measured 3X the light in the corners compared to a 400.

 

[sumo]

Missed posting last part of this grow. But here is what it is all about. I estimate this harvest to be somewhere between plenty and what am I going to do with all this bud. Don't you wish you were on my Christmas list? Ak48 and other stuff.

 

[green_grow]

excellent .... ehhhhhhhxcellent !

 

[Guest]

oh yeah!

 

[mysta177]

wow very nice. you should have an eventful xmas.....

 

[kindred1]

Don't you wish you were on my Christmas list?

Amazing stash! Im back from a hiatus and will be watching your grows closely,thanks for sharing you knowledge.

 

[przcvctm]

This is a two part question about light distribution/yeild and air flow through my C13. First, I don't think that there is a debate about penetration and intensity between flouro's and HIDs. But if you scrog, could even distribution be more important in terms of overall yeild than intensity? I've built a scrog screen that fits into my C13 like a shelf. Using the pre-drilled holes on the inside, I can adjust it up or down. The screen frame is roughly 22" x 28" and fits snug inside the cab. I currently use a 250w HID that definately has a small sweet spot of intensity. Sun Systems makes a 2', 8 tube T-5 light/reflector that is just slightly smaller than my scrog screen, about 23" x 21".

#1- Does anyone else agree that overall yeild would increase using the flouro setup hanging close over and covering the entire screen?

#2-Does anyone see a potential air flow problem using the larger light reflector along with a scrog screen? I've got passives on the bottom of the cab and a 6" inline fan pulling air through on top into a carbon filter. I also have a small fan that can fit between the pots in the middle to blow straight up into the bottom of the scrog screen.

Thanks for reading this and giving it some thought.

P.S. Simon, I was hoping that Midler avatar was lost with OG. No offense buddy, but her face creeps me out. As do clowns.

 

[mysta177]

#2-Does anyone see a potential air flow problem using the larger light reflector along with a scrog screen? I've got passives on the bottom of the cab and a 6" inline fan pulling air through on top into a carbon filter. I also have a small fan that can fit between the pots in the middle to blow straight up into the bottom of the scrog screen.

How many passive intakes do you have? Is it real hard to open the doors?
In the pic above I have a 6in fantech,400w sunsystem, and 2-8X8 louvers. Im still thinking of adding more intake.Hope this helps....

 

[simon]

#1- Does anyone else agree that overall yeild would increase using the flouro setup hanging close over and covering the entire screen?

If you hang the T-5s over the HPS, they'll be too far away to contribute much at all. If you hang them under the HPS, I'm willing to bet your yield will decrease. I use a 4x2' and a 2x2' T-5s with seedlings and their effective reach is very limited. Why not opt for a 400HPS?

P.S. Simon, I was hoping that Midler avatar was lost with OG. No offense buddy, but her face creeps me out. As do clowns.

My original one was lost; this is a new one, but it still makes me laugh.

 

[green_grow]

it IS kinda creepy . but then, my avatar is mr. garrison, so i can't really talk.

 

[sugabear_II]

This is a two part question about light distribution/yeild and air flow through my C13. First, I don't think that there is a debate about penetration and intensity between flouro's and HIDs. But if you scrog, could even distribution be more important in terms of overall yeild than intensity? I've built a scrog screen that fits into my C13 like a shelf. Using the pre-drilled holes on the inside, I can adjust it up or down. The screen frame is roughly 22" x 28" and fits snug inside the cab. I currently use a 250w HID that definately has a small sweet spot of intensity. Sun Systems makes a 2', 8 tube T-5 light/reflector that is just slightly smaller than my scrog screen, about 23" x 21".

#1- Does anyone else agree that overall yeild would increase using the flouro setup hanging close over and covering the entire screen?

#2-Does anyone see a potential air flow problem using the larger light reflector along with a scrog screen? I've got passives on the bottom of the cab and a 6" inline fan pulling air through on top into a carbon filter. I also have a small fan that can fit between the pots in the middle to blow straight up into the bottom of the scrog screen.

Thanks for reading this and giving it some thought.

P.S. Simon, I was hoping that Midler avatar was lost with OG. No offense buddy, but her face creeps me out. As do clowns.

how many watts is the t5 setup?

scrog was invented by floro growers if I remember correctly.

if the t5 is similar wattage to the 250 you should get similar yield.

you would need to get more bud sites on the sceen and should expect more smaller buds in the end.

sounds like the footprint of the reflector will prohibit using both lights.

If you're trying to maximize yield I'd get another 250 or maybe two of those envirolights .

or just get a 400

 

[simon]

if the t5 is similar wattage to the 250 you should get similar yield.

Wattage is a measure of energy use, not light output. A HPS is a much more efficient light source and will deliver greater yield each and every time.

If you're trying to maximize yield I'd get another 250 or maybe two of those envirolights .

I have a bunch of 125w CFLs (Envirolights and similar lamps sold by Farmtech). Their effectiveness pales in comparison next to a HPS and their dispersion is almost nonexistent.

 

[przcvctm]

Mysta
I built my cab several years ago according to Maliboo's specs so with my 6" Fantech I have 9" of light-trapped passive intake on the bottom. When I'm flowering I attach a filter on each intake and it is then that the doors seal. It's not hard to open but it's tight against the weather stripping. I hear no change in fan speed when I open the doors so I don't think it's bogging down.

Simon and SII
I guess I wasn't clear. I'm not thinking of using both lights, but replacing the 250w with the flouro setup. My theory is that in a scrog setup, with the flouros very close to the canopy and covering the entire screen evenly, that overall yeild would increase over and HID with an uneven distribution of intensity out to the periphery of the screen. So, smaller buds (but not by much, I've read) but more of them. Make sense?

 

[simon]

I built my cab several years ago according to Maliboo's specs so with my 6" Fantech I have 9" of light-trapped passive intake on the bottom.

I hope you didn't use 'Boo-math to calculate the intake area.

Simon and SII
I guess I wasn't clear. I'm not thinking of using both lights, but replacing the 250w with the flouro setup. My theory is that in a scrog setup, with the flouros very close to the canopy and covering the entire screen evenly, that overall yeild would increase over and HID with an uneven distribution of intensity out to the periphery of the screen. So, smaller buds (but not by much, I've read) but more of them. Make sense?

As I already mentioned. I own and use T-5s and there's no comparison.

You need to invest in a light meter so that you can answer these questions for yourself. You can then measure your HPS at its least effective point and then compare it to a CFL (lacking T-5s). The best way to go about this is through experience, and through trial and error. As most folks here lack those attributes, yet continue to give advice regardless, it behooves one to take the text on this site with a large grain of salt.

 

[sugabear_II]

Wattage is a measure of energy use, not light output. A HPS is a much more efficient light source and will deliver greater yield each and every time.



I have a bunch of 125w CFLs (Envirolights and similar lamps sold by Farmtech). Their effectiveness pales in comparison next to a HPS and their dispersion is almost nonexistent.

t-5's do produce a very good lumen/watt ratio compariable to smaller wattage MH and HPS lamps. Given the more even light distribution over a scrog screen and better spectrum than an hps I stand by my statement that similar yields are achievable with a similar wattage setup. I think this has been proven in the past by people on the boards.

On the envirolights - it was a suggestion, one of three

If you're trying to maximize yield I'd get another 250 or maybe two of those envirolights .

or just get a 400

the other two being more HID wattage.

As most folks here lack those attributes, yet continue to give advice regardless, it behooves one to take the text on this site with a large grain of salt

Well I guess that implied insult is being tossed my way and I really don't understand why you feel to say that simon.

I'm not going to get defensive/competitive and challenge you to an "experience" measuring contest which seems to be your goal.

All I'm going to say is that an opinion was asked for and I gave mine based upon my knowledge and experience.

Thanks for sharing your opinion about those lights based upon your knowledge and experience.

-suga

 

[sumo]

it IS kinda creepy . but then, my avatar is mr. garrison, so i can't really talk.

Mr Garrison is cool but Mr Hand gives me the creeps.

Flouros may be able to get you similar results per watt but you would have to work four times as hard. The c13 is tall and not very wide so you need a light with penetration. I grow tall plants in it. Now you could lay it on it's side and string 400w of flouros then train train train plants to grow how they don't want to , short and wide. The plants would fight you the whole way. Experience has gotten us where we are today not chance. Listen to the majority and take it easy. Look at my grow box in pics. I am not working very hard at it and my innovations are more along the line of what don't I need to grow. Hype. Definately don't need any hype.

Peace

 

[sugabear_II]

It wasn't aimed at you and I apologize if it came across that way....

OK then no worries - sorry for accusing you.

I think I will and go back to ....edit.... see any reason to stick around, either. Good luck.

Good luck to you too.


p.s. - I edited out some material for you.

 

[Guest]

Hello fellow Mill's Pride Motherfuckers! I'm running 6 shelves of young plants vegging in two C-25s and am now working on a 1200W flowering system with 3 C-25's. Check out my thread:

C-25 Clone Army

 

[sugabear_II]

Simon and SII
I guess I wasn't clear. I'm not thinking of using both lights, but replacing the 250w with the flouro setup. My theory is that in a scrog setup, with the flouros very close to the canopy and covering the entire screen evenly, that overall yeild would increase over and HID with an uneven distribution of intensity out to the periphery of the screen. So, smaller buds (but not by much, I've read) but more of them. Make sense?

To answer your question clearly....

no I don't think the floros will give an increase in yield unless your distribution is really poor and you are not getting a decent yield with the 250.

I'd also ask why not get better light distribution off your existing lamp by replacing the reflector with one better suited to your grow space?

sumo your point is also a very good one. KISS is the single most important principle for the hoby grower. And growing plants vertically under a strong light is the easiest way to get good results. That's certianly what I went for with my setup.

simon now you got me feeling all bad. You do have a point about not giving advice about something that you do not personally have experience with. For that I am at fault. I have not grown with t-5s. I have however witnessed some successful scrog grows with just t-5s by a medical grower in a wheel chair. For him the t-5's and scrog were required to keep the plants within working distance. I also have seen dubphiend pull some amazing floro scrogs with t-8s that approached 1 gram/watt. Now neither of these were my grows so I guess I have no business commenting on them.

Maybe I should have prefaced my comment with a disclaimer that I was speaking based upon second hand experience?

Your advice to me on this thread was very much appreciated and helped to make my grow cabinet successful. I think we all appreciate your experience and knowledge you provide here.

 

[mysta177]

Thanks for sharing your opinion about those lights based upon your knowledge and experience, please keep your negativity to yourself.

IMO I love simons opinions. He always tells what he feels an is 99.9% of the time right. I dont care how anyone feels about him he has changed some things in a c13 FOR US to do better in it. He actually didnt even need to say anything. I would hate for simon to leave IC due to the fact that he gets flamed for facts...I dont get it. This same shit happened at OG to him. He right you never know what your reading till you do it. Example........................................................................................
Back at OG I came across a thread by maloboo and how to build a c13. I followed the directions and bam I had a c13. Then came Simon saying that there was not enough intake for the c13 with mals design. Yea I said who the fuck is simon...................But with Mal being the supposed guru of the c13....I had a choice to make because my temps were high (mid 80's) listen to mal with the 6-2in pvc or simon with the darkroom vents?????I didnt say shit on OG cuz I didnt know what one to do so I said fuk it I hope simon is right.......and wala....put in 1 8x8 and temps were 79 deg that shit worked. I even ordered another so I now have 2 may going to add a 3rd. Temp are perfect but could be better this fan is kick ass.
Point beingI did trial and error and I dont belive text cuz simon is right you jus dont know how its going to work for YOU cuz all climates,cabs,fans,plants etc are diffrent. Simon to me is a guru withch to means I can honestly listen to him and belive what is going to happen. Sumo to is the same way. Shit I remember sumo arguing the darkroom but in all trial tells the truth right? So thankyou Simon,Pincone,Abby,HashA and a couple more stay green and simon let me know where your going to go bro.......................................
Edit.....sorry suge when I wrote this your post above was not there.