The Haze discussion thread

[Raco]

This sound familiar to anyone....what some of the best old thais were like...no sweet, citrus, lemony stuff here

leathery?

 

[Yo Sammy]

Personally, I'm still curious why Sam is so certain OH is a combination of just three Colombian lines, with nothing else in the mix. We know OH was created before he ever got his hands on it, and even Sam himself has implied that the so-called Haze Brothers didn't know what they were doing, breeding-wise, so how can anyone be sure that no Thai, Mex, or Indian was already in Haze before Sam reproduced it? I must assume Sam is simply stating what he was told by the Brothers, and I guess that is about as authoritative as it's going to get, but the number of experienced Thai-smokers who insist that Haze MUST have at least some Thai genetics is not insignificant.

And then I ask myself why it even matters. I guess this damn thread has sucked me into the mystery!

That’s the beauty of Haze, a mystical power plant launching us into its undeniable wondrous realm of psychedelic euphoria with a twist.
Considering the era of its creation the possibility South East Asian genetics ar part of Haze to some extent remains plausible. Vietnam war soldiers returning with seeds of some good SEA varieties is factual so if these ganja lovers got word of this and the quality of some of the best sea nld varieties it something that can’t be dismissed until DNA sequencing results reveals its true identity.
In the end it’s only getting the info straight.
Knowing its true ancestry won’t get me higher than smoking it.
So, give thanks to these extraordinary beautiful plants, wherever they originated from, so happy and thankful that we can enjoy working, growing and smoking them, preferably in good and/or sexy company

 

[Donald Mallard]

This sound familiar to anyone....what some of the best old thais were like...no sweet, citrus, lemony stuff here

i often wondered about that also darkie ,
having grown seeds from those sticks ,
the resulting product didnt have the same aroma at all to the stuff it came from ,

but when you take into account a long cure and possible bit of a sweat cure ,
then its more likely the fresh harvested aroma cured into what we were smelling once those sticks finally reached our shores ,
one has to assume it was at least several months to a year , or more , until those sticks arrived at their destination ...

\im sure there is more than just one type of smell in thai weed when its fresh ..

the laos brick weed we first scored there had a bit of a fruit cake aroma ,
likely from a bit of a sweat cure i gather after making a few of those malawi cobs and noting the same smells ..

 

[@hempy]

Never ever had a Thai that had a sweat smell but like all cannabis Thai sativas can have different smells threw there flowering then change during the wet to dry after harvest and again change threw curing.

I have grown Thais that had a rotten meat like smell in flower i have even had sour rotten fruit type smells to in some Thai lines.

All of the old Thai lines i grew apart from the 78 Thai harvested Green and in a matter of days dried to the chocklet brown and the smell changed to what i describe as spicy /earthy mix The 78 gets that after a good cure.

 

[romanoweed]

once i smoked unknown bud that smelled of
- Spices (Mugwort Kitchenherb)
- Air (like when it rained)
- Metallic Gas (like inside a Workshop, but not stinky Fuel i describe, just the dense Air Gas thingy)

no sweetness, nor any other nuances, Just Spicy, airy, Gas

what could it have been? It was hallucinogenic,

 

[TheDarkStorm]

i often wondered about that also darkie ,
having grown seeds from those sticks ,
the resulting product didnt have the same aroma at all to the stuff it came from ,

but when you take into account a long cure and possible bit of a sweat cure ,
then its more likely the fresh harvested aroma cured into what we were smelling once those sticks finally reached our shores ,
one has to assume it was at least several months to a year , or more , until those sticks arrived at their destination ...

\im sure there is more than just one type of smell in thai weed when its fresh ..

the laos brick weed we first scored there had a bit of a fruit cake aroma ,
likely from a bit of a sweat cure i gather after making a few of those malawi cobs and noting the same smells ..

I would never have had the chance to grow and go through the amounts you guys over there would have Donald....but hempys reminds me alot of something we had here....his almost looks like a different phenotype of what we had...only our was all kind of blue...and had that old spicy leather camphor cardamom thing wen grown here but was darker and more how can I say seductive....from what hempy tells me his seems to be in a similar range....there was one someone in Holland had too that seemed to me to be a similar thing but again to me just seemed like a different phenotype of a similar line...only theirs had some chocolatey tones to it. I only came across the line held here due to a old hells angel semi hippy type neighbor..he got the seeds out of the bud and made the line...I cant say for certain if it was just lucky phenotypes picked out or what...however the bud the plant came out of near me was almost blue too and had that same dark spicy leather scent....thats the bud you may have seen me describe before...the one that could make people sick or do some seriously odd things for hours....I agree not all thai was like that.
and there must have been many lines...but could be down to something specific that was grown that was only done in smaller batches or at specific times....to be honest I wouldn't really know....after losing the one here I thought id find it elsewhere but never did till I seen the one in Holland but they wernt giving it out and also lost it abit later...and the only other time I seen something similar was wen hempy put his thais pictures up.....also like you say curing and storage is of vital importance too...ive know weed to get much stronger through good curing and storage methods....
​​​​​​

 

[@hempy]

I was watching a pod cast last night on haze and they were saying how a new interest in Haze has started and in Cali the clones called 5HzC and 5HzA are being explored and a phino hunt is under way. Now that's all fine and good but that is no different than making F2s and once you inbreed a Haze hybrid it don't improve or bring out more of the haze.

From were i sit the best that one could hope for is what Johnny did and that was to inbreed and preserve what is all ready there.

All i set out to do with my Haze lines was to again preserve what was there and try and capture the quality of the selected female i used in some cases 2 females in a given line if they were super special.

I never cared about crossing one haze hybrid with a different one.

What i have thought about doing tho for a long time is working on creating a completely unrelated Haze type line using the same method /logic as the haze brothers did and that is to find unrelated high quality sativas and bang them together. A Thai and a Colombian hybrid is what i am looking at now imagine if 100 people did this with unrelated lines following the same thinking 30 or 20 years ago what we could have now.

I think preserving the past is important but i also think creating new things and not just living in the past is also key.

 

[Hammerhead]

Some will interpret those aromas and flavors differently than what I perceive. I learned long ago not to assume someone isn't smoking the same weed as I because of how I think the smells or flavors should be.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

Personally, I'm still curious why Sam is so certain OH is a combination of just three Colombian lines, with nothing else in the mix. We know OH was created before he ever got his hands on it, and even Sam himself has implied that the so-called Haze Brothers didn't know what they were doing, breeding-wise, so how can anyone be sure that no Thai, Mex, or Indian was already in Haze before Sam reproduced it? I must assume Sam is simply stating what he was told by the Brothers, and I guess that is about as authoritative as it's going to get, but the number of experienced Thai-smokers who insist that Haze MUST have at least some Thai genetics is not insignificant.

And then I ask myself why it even matters. I guess this damn thread has sucked me into the mystery!

He did collect OH samples back in 2015-2017 for DNA testing.
I have sent him one myself of my OH that looked like "his mother he did use for 20 years"
May be that is the reason of his sudden version change.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

The test results were never made public as far as im aware....an he said to me no ones really 100% sure. The thing with phylos is do they have the original parent lines to even match the dna to....without those their just matching things to whatever they have. Plus their wernt just one haze line their were several. Does anyone really think sam gave at one point in time different phenotypes of haze individual listings and names if they wernt seperate lines (but some how linked together). Ive never ever know him to do that.

 

[Hammerhead]

A5hazebx x FP)x(A5hazebx x Mac.....AKAP53....Turned out very nice even though I totally messed her up.. I have this pheno backed up. I'll run her again without the screwup

 

[TheDarkStorm]

The first question i asked Nevil about Haze was why didn't you make pure haze and offer it.

He then explained that he did in fact make pure haze seed he made them with male C and A to the different fems that he had and that was the first time he told me inbreeding was not improving it and the seed he had made was not as good as the parental Haze lines they were made from. He then told me Sam had told him the same that Haze was best out crossed not inbreed.

Nevil then went on to tell me that he had even reversed Haze C male and made haze C Square.

So that is why he went the hybrid road but he knew for years that the only road forward was to use a Haze Male to a pure old school Thai or to a haze that was unrelated to the current offerings.

The males carry the ancestral memory's so by crossing it to a unrelated pure line your going to find haze ancestors and there is were you find the goods.

Did he tell he how he also tested making nevils haze using/testing different hazeC squared males one at a time on a few different a5 cuts instead of using hazeC....I know he did have at one time some hybrids using a a5 on the male side...but I dont know if he tried a hazeC squared female to a a5 male...im assuming he must of done....I know he tried using different hazeC squared females and males onto to different versions and phenotypes of the 5AC (Nevils haze). I dont think the reults of using hazeC squared worked out as good....If making Nevils haze with inbred parents on either side or both sides would actually a change the way it works

 

[@hempy]

Did he tell he how he also tested making nevils haze using/testing different hazeC squared males one at a time on a few different a5 cuts instead of using hazeC....I know he did have at one time some hybrids using a a5 on the male side...but I dont know if he tried a hazeC squared female to a a5 male...im assuming he must of done....I know he tried using different hazeC squared females and males onto to different versions and phenotypes of the 5AC (Nevils haze). I dont think the reults of using hazeC squared worked out as good....If making Nevils haze with inbred parents on either side or both sides would actually a change the way it works

He told me that he tried all types of combinations with the Haze plants he started with and no pure haze seed he made was better than the pure haze parents he started with so why he out crossed it.

If you look at the work Nevil did with Haze he always out crossed and re combined.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

The test results were never made public as far as im aware....an he said to me no ones really 100% sure. The thing with phylos is do they have the original parent lines to even match the dna to....without those their just matching things to whatever they have. Plus their wernt just one haze line their were several. Does anyone really think sam gave at one point in time different phenotypes of haze individual listings and names if they wernt seperate lines (but some how linked together). Ive never ever know him to do that.

Makes sense what you write.
May be he has been able to draw some conclusions, as he should know the OH lines the best, with exception of Tom's or OTH. But I am not a fan of phylos too, therefore...
Also cannot know if Sams has ever DNA tested other lines. I only know, that he did ask me publicly for a sample in 2015 and that for some reason he had to wait until december 2017 to get it from me. And he was still happy to receive it.
Therefore the 2015-2017 time period.

I guess I did even report a HazeC like pheno from the Seedsman, I did consider Thai. Had only sparse calyxes here and there, with very resiny stems.
But I am no landrace expert and more interested in understadning what Haze is now, than in what it once has been, before its creation.
If one thing helps the other, it's nice. But often more confusing than helpful. Better stick to the very best Hazes: A, C, 19 and SamS mother. And use these as reference. I had the luck to experience them directly (haze19). Or through their very best known direct progeny. (the other 3)

 

[Donald Mallard]

maybe if he had more than 1 female to work with some better selection may have been able ,
it was just 1 girl wasnt it ??
doesnt leave much room to move ...

 

[JohnnyChicago]

He told me that he tried all types of combinations with the Haze plants he started with and no pure haze seed he made was better than the pure haze parents he started with so why he out crossed it.

If you look at the work Nevil did with Haze he always out crossed and re combined.

Hi Hempy, imagine they had put Haze A, C, 19 and SamS mother together, what we would have today.
I am convinced "19 x A" & "SamS mother x C" these excat two combinations could been a great improvement (in addtition to a great way to preserve them)
19 x A, for potency.
SamS x C, for the high.

But nobody did know the laws would change in worse like they did years later.
A wonder some of Nevils selected cuts are preserved. Gets not valued high enough, when you consider that everything else is/seems lost since long time.

 

[@hempy]

maybe if he had more than 1 female to work with some better selection may have been able ,
it was just 1 girl wasnt it ??
doesnt leave much room to move ...

How did you come up with one female Donald Nevil had 2 males A and C and The first one that came up was the very difficult plant it was a female from the L967 batch,It had quite a leathery, Thai like, smell and taste. That makes 3 what were the other haze plants B D E ?.

 

[@hempy]

Hi Hempy, imagine they had put Haze A, C, 19 and SamS mother together, what we would have today.
I am convinced "19 x A" & "SamS mother x C" these excat two combinations could been a great improvement (in addtition to a great way to preserve them)
19 x A, for potency.
SamS x C, for the high.

But nobody did know the laws would change in worse like they did years later.
A wonder some of Nevils selected cuts are preserved. Gets not valued high enough, when you consider that everything else is/seems lost since long time.

I think it would of thrown out some magic Johnny imagine if the 2 sides had worked towards a single goal and then throw in the Haze heads growing these seeds working as a giant co op of growers.

 

[bigherb]

Nevil said There was reportedly 5 females and two males

Famous A and C males . The legendary first Haze female that never stopped flowering and was discarded. BDE and O for omega from 70 seed stock . The other six were all from 69 stock

Nevils opinion was the B and O were Haze hybrids and inferior to the males . Basically nothing worthy from the females with the exception of the first female

The more I look back the more questions I have , the more things make sense and the more doubt comes about .

Haze Hybrid type plants found in the same 69’stock as the two Males . 5 females that nothing became of

Interesting talk of the crossing the famous Hazes with what’s available . What is still possible today ? . I know Johnny and Mac have been busy at it


Ive wondered can we confirm if the HzC is still alive , I’m not talking about shanti facility. I’m curious if it’s held in S. Holland by Bonk or crew Can Karma or Uncle Yosemite confirm this ?

Love and Respect to all the Haze heads for sharing information and spreading preserving genetics

1luvbigherb

 

[@hempy]

Nevil said There was reportedly 5 females and two males

Famous A and C males . The legendary first Haze female that never stopped flowering and was discarded. BDE and O for omega from 70 seed stock . The other six were all from 69 stock

This is from Nevil

The first one that came up was a very difficult plant it was a female from the L967 batch, I think, and I didn't really know what I was dealing with, just that they were bld and were very difficult to grow. It grew very big and spindly with very long arms, it filled a quarter of my grow room. It had very fine wipsy buds and it sat there flowering for about nine months ! Of course, being a breeder, during those 9 months I pollinated it with a few different things and then manually harvested those seeds... because it just kept flowering for nine months

The First Female was from the batch of seed labeled 1967.

THE PLANTS A :C :Those are from the original L969 seeds. So they came from seed labeled 1969