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The Haze discussion thread
- Thread starter @hempy
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Nevil post from the Q for Nevil thread , he never mentioned 1967 and clearly says (After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E. )
The subject of Haze keeps coming up.
I got mine from Sam the Skunkman in the 80's. I bought a couple of thousand of old stock late 60s/ 70. The first batch that I planted produced one plant, a female. It was the slowest to flower I'd ever come across and flowered for longer. I got 3 different crops of seed of it and it had still not finished. It was huge and filled a quarter of the room, it had wispy buds and when you smoked it, other people complained about the smell. It didn't have much resin and after 9 months flowering, with no end in sight, I chopped it. It seem the most impractical plant I'd ever grown. I didn't keep a cutting.
One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.
I'm feeling a bit sad now, I think that I'll go and have a smoke.
I'll tell you the rest later.
N.
After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.
Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.
The subject of Haze keeps coming up.
I got mine from Sam the Skunkman in the 80's. I bought a couple of thousand of old stock late 60s/ 70. The first batch that I planted produced one plant, a female. It was the slowest to flower I'd ever come across and flowered for longer. I got 3 different crops of seed of it and it had still not finished. It was huge and filled a quarter of the room, it had wispy buds and when you smoked it, other people complained about the smell. It didn't have much resin and after 9 months flowering, with no end in sight, I chopped it. It seem the most impractical plant I'd ever grown. I didn't keep a cutting.
One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.
I'm feeling a bit sad now, I think that I'll go and have a smoke.
I'll tell you the rest later.
N.
After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.
Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.
thats a shame the girls were mostly not worthy ,
i guess the only one worthy was the one reportedly used for a few seed batches??
do you know if any seed was made from other girls bh ??
as i said to bh ,
was one girl used to make seeds only ,
it was an easy question hempy ,
i was trying to assess why no improvements were made and or why nothing as good was found in the seed he made ,
the possibility that only one female was used could be the key to that ,
as i said if more were available , it would open up more doors of possibility ,
like johnnys suggestions , crossing some of the best girls , with the best males ,
thats likely going to bring some better things to the table than just using 1 girl that was all he had rather than selected from a larger number of plants ...
sup brother
All the Nevil info I post was made public
He never offered seeds using the females commercially. As he said above he tried all possible combinations but BC was the best . He didn’t seem impressed with that pure haze combo . But seeds were made and shared .
I don’t understand why wasn’t any seed worked if he was Soo impressed with the FH aka first female he didn’t save a cutting of . His words below
The best haze hybrids that I bred came from the First Haze female I grew. It was bred to a 75% NL1 ruderalis male. I was so impressed that my first Haze release was NL1xHzC, from a select NL1 cut. It wasn't as good as it's predecessor.
Excluding FH female, the two males A+C were genetically the best (progeny testing). If any of the other females had better progeny than the males, I would have used them, but they didn't. Because of Hazes being slow to flower, it was more efficient to use the males, but this was not my motivation. I wish that I had kept FH, but such is life.
N.
1luvbigherb
thanks bh ,, im not as familiar with the history really,
probably like the bulk of folks ,
i almost need it spelt out to me , hahaha ..
it can get a little confusing ..
cant help thinking how much of a shame it was he didnt go and ask sam for more information on those dates he mentions,
because we are never going to know what the go was with those ,
as you know sam categorically denies sharing any seed from the haze brothers ,
and says there was few of them even ,
having read both versions and knowing a fair bit of the history behind it all ,
what are your thoughts about those dates ??
\do you think it possible those seeds were from way back then ,
or more likely from the batch of seed from 1976 , or later ??
what would make nevil assume those seeds were from them other than labeling,
did he make a mistake, or was the date labeling genuine and sam didn't realize he shared them one wonders ??
probably like the bulk of folks ,
i almost need it spelt out to me , hahaha ..
it can get a little confusing ..
cant help thinking how much of a shame it was he didnt go and ask sam for more information on those dates he mentions,
because we are never going to know what the go was with those ,
as you know sam categorically denies sharing any seed from the haze brothers ,
and says there was few of them even ,
having read both versions and knowing a fair bit of the history behind it all ,
what are your thoughts about those dates ??
\do you think it possible those seeds were from way back then ,
or more likely from the batch of seed from 1976 , or later ??
what would make nevil assume those seeds were from them other than labeling,
did he make a mistake, or was the date labeling genuine and sam didn't realize he shared them one wonders ??
Ruderalis???. That's interesting to read, I didn't know this. Why would he use that and not a better male with no ruderalis genes??. As far as I'm aware ruderalis has the lowest THC content other than Hemp. It's the worst cannabis variety with autoflowering genetics ..
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Most ruderalis are high CBD and low low THC but some are high THC and low low CBD personally i would step on it before i would use it for breeding but i guess he was thinking of the indoor growers or those that live in eras with shorter out door windows.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Hi herb that came from Nevil from a intervue he did in 2018 were he documented his Haze work in detail that i was given.
My brother
It’s a joy to talk Haze and the history , your questions are passion that i share and also ponder . I don’t like to repeat myself and won’t argue the written history but conversing with you has always been a pleasure
Ive come to realize that taking everything quite literal will make you crazy and looking at the dates of each post will cause more confusion. I greatly respect Sams I’ve always thirsted for knowledge and I’m sure at times I’ve come across as a pain but my only interest was/ is the truth
I don’t want to continue pointing out contradictions. I hope the man one day shares his Haze story as in-depth as possible
The 66 date is not attached to Haze where it came from I can’t tell you , maybe Sams can comment . It’s Nevils story and the only other reference is Hempys recent post which I don’t think is a direct quote from Nevil . I await his response.
Sams states his first time smoking Haze was 71 but also says he returned to Santa Cruz in early 72 . Soo I assume 71/72 he had the opportunity to collect seeds from the Haze bag seed , as he says later on he got seeds from G and little from
RL . I believe He moved down the block from G and we know they had some relationship through the years as he shared Golden Thai and South Indian with both guys . Soo he had the opportunity to build relationships and asked for permission to preserve and work the Haze later on
Well if I recall he states Thai was not around until 73 in SC and he also states G chose to not cross it to Original Haze as they were not as good .
I’ve already said way to much but with all that said and Sams opinion Below and G opinion of Original Haze being superior to the other available Sativas . My opinion is No way did Sams give away actual Haze seed stock he aquired from G or RL .
As for the dates 84/85 , Sams says he believes he gave Nevil stock he made in Adam but it leaves me wondering because how long was Sams in Adam before he Sold Nevil Haze seeds . How long did he have to preserve Haze in holland before selling it to Nevil
Regardless I think 1976 is a significant date as to Sams maybe starting his preservation of Original Haze or his work if I may call it . My belief is Nevil seed stock came from Original Haze seeds Sams worked from 76 or later pure Colombian OHaze possibly seeds from his burning Bush selection since it was mentioned according to Nevil . But i
Also have my thoughts on that
Also in these later years I ponder if Nevil actually used the clones Sams gave him and the grow of thousands of seeds was abit fabricated
How likely is it Sams aquired Seeds from 69 considering he wasn’t in Santa Cruz until 2 plus years after the birth of Haze ?
Soo how likely is it 10 plus years later he would sell these seeds if he even had them ?
Also How likely is it Sams sold seeds he hand picked to Nevil ?
let’s remember Genetics tracing to 69 is different from seed stock from 69
Only Sams can give you these details. I was told from my source later on Sams lived down the block , Soo I know he’s the closest to the source .
Sams post
Have you ever seen a Haze cross or hybrid that was better than the Original Haze back in the early 70's? I have not, they can and do yield more, as well as mature faster, than the Original Haze, but I like Original Haze for the high and taste, I know it will take longer to grow, big deal....
The Original Haze was created in Santa Cruz,,,,, But even there you needed a greenhouse to finish it correctly.
-SamS
1luvbigherb
Its interesting he never mentioned a plant from 67 on the Mns forum . As you see I quoted his post and it states the opposite that the first plant and seed batch was FH from 69
I’m Curious as to the source of the interview. It be interesting to read it all
1luvbigherb
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Nevil was unwell so he felt it was important to document the haze story from his side before it was to late from what i understand this has ever been published.
thanks for your candour bh ,
i appreciate it and i respect the time you have taken to investigate and find the history ant truths behind these stories ..
i think the same as you , if there was such a thing as seeds that far back ,
wouldnt sam want to keep them for himself , makes sense to do that , and he is not a fool thats for sure ,
i wonder what era his cuttings are from , and what the earliest seed he acquired was as far as haze goes ,
i can see how the dates mentioned by nevil must seem strange to him given he didnt get seeds until years after those dates ,
the 76 date would make much more sense ,
\and would also explain how the seed was old enough for the viability to be affected ,
still has me scratching my head where the dates nevil mentions came from ...
i think nevils dislike of sam tended to rub off a bit on others around him ,
and this is where the nevil vs sam stuff comes from ,
its a little unprofessional really and given what nevil got from sam
i think he should have stayed neutral at the very least given how far he went with the stuff sam sold him
it was a blessing for him ,
without skunk and haze , nevil would not have been as famous,
i think there is no doubt about that ...
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Why do you have such a one sided bias towards Nevil Donald and why would Nevil lie about this Nevil bought seed from Sam and going by Nevil side of the story Sam had just arrived in Holland and Sam was broke and needed the money.
Sam did not want to sell these seed but did for that reason.
What truths are you on about Donald ?, Sam's story that the haze is a 3 way Colombian or the story that the Haze is now a single Colombian line going by Herbs contact ?. Its funny how you just out right dispel Nevil's side of the story on the seed and the work he did with Haze but you believe 2 completely different evolving story's.
You continue discrediting a guy that played a huge role in the modern haze story then you blame Nevil and the people that grew his work for the Sam vs Nevil thing comical.
Who were the guys that claimed Nevil stole the Haze seed from Sam and who claimed Nevil had broken some agreement for selling Haze hybrids and all the other lies over the years ?, Your post just shows how biased you are towards Nevil and to be honest mate what you think has no role in the facts.
Oh man that gave me a belly laugh big time.. , 100% BS.. All ruderalis is low THC. There is no such thing as a ruderalis with enough THC to get you high..Where the heck did you come up with that one.. Using ruderalis is a huge mistake IMO. There's plenty of better options
hempy did u read what the guy who sold nevil the seeds says about the dates nevil has mentioned ,
he said no way , those dates are wrong ,
he never sold any seeds the haze brothers made ,
so i am not making anything up or discrediting anyone man ,
so stop with the instigations ,
i believe the story of the guy who had the seeds in his possession
who likely made the seeds, ,
who would have put the "said labels" on the bags ,
not the recipient,
the guy who made/owned/possessed the seeds likely knows the history behind them better than the chap who received them ,
this is something i shouldnt even have to go into man , seriously ...
why add that bit of bullshit on the end of your statement about nevil stealing seeds ,
no one here has said that ...
also herbs contact says several colombians were used in the making of haze ,(since he was one of the guys involved i guess he knows)
sam verified it , that is the same story , so yea those truths ,
you know first hand accounts from the people who were there ,
witnesses ,
that stuff counts to some of us , obviously not you based on a few debates we have had ,
this one , opaiated thai sticks , and perennial cannabis for instance ,
and now you dont believe what sam says about seeds he sold ,
can u even think there could have been thousands of seeds from back in 69 or 67 ,
sam has said the haze brothers didnt make many and never sold any ,
so how would those seeds be around??
the only large amount of haze seed comes from ones sam made ,
and that wasnt till 76 , as he has said ,
at least im taking both stories into account and making a logical conclusion on what i believed based on that ,
you are not even taking sams story into consideration, which is a bit silly given he is the source of the seed to begin with ..
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Sam has posted his side of the story over the years some of which has been changed Nevil has posted his side to the story and i also had him tell me the story many times over the years and i unlike some i try to stay well out of the tin foil hat wearing conspiracy side of it.
You have Sam's side of the story and you have Nevil's side of the story that is it there is no Donald side to this story there is no hempy side and there is no bigherb side to there story.
Now you believe Sam or you believe Nevil full stop.
Its clearly not sitting well with some of you that Nevil got hold of some very old Haze genetics and it never sat well with many of you that many growers said NH was stronger.
You have Sam's side of the story and you have Nevil's side of the story that is it there is no Donald side to this story there is no hempy side and there is no bigherb side to there story.
Now you believe Sam or you believe Nevil full stop.
Its clearly not sitting well with some of you that Nevil got hold of some very old Haze genetics and it never sat well with many of you that many growers said NH was stronger.
haha ,
the point is , he got seeds from sam ,
who only sold stuff he made from 76 onwards ,
its not a matter of how something sits with me ,
its more about assessing the information and who has a better idea of what things were ,
obviously it was the source who has a better idea ,
doesnt matter what you say , or what nevil says , none of you know better than the source ...
the rest is just about you and nevil and egos hempy , its pretty obvious man ...
the point is , he got seeds from sam ,
who only sold stuff he made from 76 onwards ,
its not a matter of how something sits with me ,
its more about assessing the information and who has a better idea of what things were ,
obviously it was the source who has a better idea ,
doesnt matter what you say , or what nevil says , none of you know better than the source ...
the rest is just about you and nevil and egos hempy , its pretty obvious man ...
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
You clearly need to do some research Hammer Rudi most of it is high CBD yes and i agree with you in that it should be trashed but some have high THC this is fact wild populations in the Czech Republic alone has THC and low THC examples.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
How would you know were you there did you hand over 1000s for the seed.
No your about discrediting Nevil and his side of the story mate you should stick to the facts.
It dose matter what Nevil says what has no importance in this is your opinion Donald.
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