The Haze discussion thread

[Yo Sammy]

Go back and do some reading , i stated already that ive grown Original Haze from 2000 from flying dutchman , for several years , made F2's grew them out , made hybrids grew them out etc etc , then moved on to Nevil's genetics.
i select phenos for heavy Haze leaners not the Indica leaners.
im all about the Haze and Sativa's and if you followed or knew anything about my work you would know that.
​​
Original Haze is special but Haze hybrids are better and Nevil did make Haze famous as Haze is/used to be in every coffeshop in Holland, but not Original Haze, but all of the Haze hybrids. You won't even find Original Haze on menus at all ? , why is that.
people grow 16 week Haze's in Holland but they cant grow Original Haze , why ?
Because demand is not wanted , they would grow Nevil Haze 14 weeks and quaze ( Nevil pheno) 16 weeks with tiny buds , tiny but they wont grow Original Haze ?.

If demand was there they would grow it.

The difference is this , Nevil made some world changing genetics and spread the cuts around and worked them for 20 years before he left holland in 2000's and Haze died then and only lower quality Haze's were left in Amsterdam.

Sam made Haze seeds when he arrived in Holland but there was no famous Original Haze clone but seeds were selected and worked with or passed around the Community , also the reworked (F2's)Original Haze was not of the quality of the seeds nevil bought from Sam and and ever new batch F2,F3 for more hempy as it went down the line.

Has anyone seen any pics of a 30 year old O Haze Female or special Male to make the the Original Haze seeds ? , no its an open pollination of the previous seeds and every run gets worse and worse.
There was no Famous Original Haze clone in Holland only the Millions of seeds sam made in his greenhouse , Millions of seeds and where is the best Original Haze selected from these Millions of seeds ?
Nevil produced easily 20 of the world's best Haze's from way less than Sam did with his Millions of Original Haze seeds and where are the famous sections ?
i know the tom hill and a bunch of other reproductions and to be honest they seem far better than the flying dutchmen seeds even from 20 years back but i still stand by the Haze dominant hybrids are far better than any Original Haze.

Also i have Nevil's last creations and they are very Sativa dominant, and again every strain ive run are far better than any Original Haze i ever smoked and i been going Amsterdam for 20 plus years and chasing strains for longer , i used to go have smoke ups with Cannabis college in Amsterdam that was owned by flying dutchmen seeds and never have i seen a Original Haze as good as the best Haze's ive seen and sampled.

The best Haze ive ever seen releated to Original Haze was the Titans Haze flying dutchmen seeds( hansfe cut) prcualy made by Sam as is OriginalHaze x Sk1 or lineage other way around and that was a special Haze , 10 times better than any OHaze but only on a level with some of my Haze's or Nevil's hybrids.

Hi ojd,
The answer to your question is very simple:
Yield & Bag appeal or plain simple commerce.
There are zero OHz commercial cultivators bc not any grower can make profit by cultivating it compared to Haze Hybrids or any other commercial strain.
Dutch coffeeshops are about doing business and making profit prior to anything, not saying it’s only about making profit but business is business, if you don’t make profit you will perish.
All commercial cultivating providing gear for these shops will have to follow this tendency or be out of business to.
At least 90% of all weed that’s on any coffeeshops menu is grown for profit mainly and not out of interest in the herb itself, defo not for passion and/or joy.
Something like OHaze just won’t make it from a commercial perspective.
Exactly why Nevils Hybridisation of pure Haze was and remains a big hit while OHz always remained in the league of connoisseurs and passionates.
20+ weeks resulting in poor yields and not visually appealing compared to a maximum of let’s say 16 weeks resulting in an amazing yield and very visually appealing flowers make a world of difference.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Hi ojd,
The answer to your question is very simple:
Yield & Bag appeal or plain simple commerce.
There are zero OHz commercial cultivators bc not any grower can make profit by cultivating it compared to Haze Hybrids or any other commercial strain.
Dutch coffeeshops are about doing business and making profit prior to anything, not saying it’s only about making profit but business is business, if you don’t make profit you will perish.
All commercial cultivating providing gear for these shops will have to follow this tendency or be out of business to.
At least 90% of all weed that’s on any coffeeshops menu is grown for profit mainly and not out of interest in the herb itself, defo not for passion and/or joy.
Something like OHaze just won’t make it from a commercial perspective.
Exactly why Nevils Hybridisation of pure Haze was and remains a big hit while OHz always remained in the league of connoisseurs and passionates.
20+ weeks resulting in poor yields and not visually appealing compared to a maximum of let’s say 16 weeks resulting in an amazing yield and very visually appealing flowers make a world of difference.

Ohz was sold in coffee shops.....and thousands of ohz seeds were sold....to the point that seed sellers were running out of stock....in Holland ohz you can find ohz that goes 12 weeks.
I got a question for you Sammy...not sure if you was smoking or growing back then...but did you ever get to smoke the original f1 skunk hazeA, skunk hazeC, 76ohz x skunk and skunk x 76ohz...and did you get a chance to see these side by side.....from my experience the skunk hazeC and skunk hazeA were on a totaly different level...the skunk hazeA was rank....both had silly strong effects....something that was noticed across the board with hazeA and hazeC no mater what it was put to.
Not sure if you know who ghs got their old nevils haze clone from...but growing indoors you would need a huge amount of space...it would stretch out huge to get a decent yield from it......that was one of those that would flower on and on and on if you wanted...even though they would chop at 14-16 weeks...but it would always be far from done.

 

[GoatCheese]

Ohz was sold in coffee shops.....and thousands of ohz seeds were sold....to the point that seed sellers were running out of stock....in Holland ohz you can find ohz that goes 12 weeks.
I got a question for you Sammy...not sure if you was smoking or growing back then...but did you ever get to smoke the original f1 skunk hazeA, skunk hazeC, 76ohz x skunk and skunk x 76ohz...and did you get a chance to see these side by side.....from my experience the skunk hazeC and skunk hazeA were on a totaly different level...the skunk hazeA was rank....both had silly strong effects....something that was noticed across the board with hazeA and hazeC no mater what it was put to.
Not sure if you know who ghs got their old nevils haze clone from...but growing indoors you would need a huge amount of space...it would stretch out huge to get a decent yield from it......that was one of those that would flower on and on and on if you wanted...even though they would chop at 14-16 weeks...but it would always be far from done.

Yea, atleast Yo-Yo Coffeeshop in Amsterdam has been selling outdoors grown Haze for years, thou idk if they’re still open.

The address is: Tweede Jan van der Heijdenstraat 79
http://www.coffeeshopmenus.org/Yo-Yo/Menus/Yo-Yo.html

I meant to try that Haze 2013/2015-ish, but they were doing some maintenance at the shop so it was closed for the time i was there.
I remember people giving it nice reviews at the Amsterdam Coffeeshop Direct forum, and it was a bummer to miss it.

 

[Hammerhead]

I'm curious does any coffee shop still carry those haze hybrids or have they also switch to what is carried at most dispensaries in the USA?

 

[GoatCheese]

I'm curious does any coffee shop still carry those haze hybrids or have they also switch to what is carried at most dispensaries in the USA?

Original De Dampkring (Handbookstraat 29) has been selling alot of Nevil's old stuff for years: C5, A5; Ag13, HPH, Nevil's Haze and some hybrids made with some of this stuff.

http://www.coffeeshopmenus.org/Dampk...Dampkring.html

 

[Yo Sammy]

Ohz was sold in coffee shops.....and thousands of ohz seeds were sold....to the point that seed sellers were running out of stock....in Holland ohz you can find ohz that goes 12 weeks.
I got a question for you Sammy...not sure if you was smoking or growing back then...but did you ever get to smoke the original f1 skunk hazeA, skunk hazeC, 76ohz x skunk and skunk x 76ohz...and did you get a chance to see these side by side.....from my experience the skunk hazeC and skunk hazeA were on a totaly different level...the skunk hazeA was rank....both had silly strong effects....something that was noticed across the board with hazeA and hazeC no mater what it was put to.
Not sure if you know who ghs got their old nevils haze clone from...but growing indoors you would need a huge amount of space...it would stretch out huge to get a decent yield from it......that was one of those that would flower on and on and on if you wanted...even though they would chop at 14-16 weeks...but it would always be far from done.

The old crew were never interested in anything holding skunk thus never held any skunk/Hz cuttings.
The only one i grew later on is the OldSkoolHz i was gifted with by its preserver.
I liked growing the cutting although it holds a very distinct rather pungent aroma that I don’t like so much.

 

[Hammerhead]

Original De Dampkring (Handbookstraat 29) has been selling alot of Nevil's old stuff for years: C5, A5; Ag13, HPH, Nevil's Haze and some hybrids made with some of this stuff.

http://www.coffeeshopmenus.org/Dampk...Dampkring.html

2019 menu, prob still the same?. It looks like a mix with some unknowns ..

 

[Yo Sammy]

Original De Dampkring (Handbookstraat 29) has been selling alot of Nevil's old stuff for years: C5, A5; Ag13, HPH, Nevil's Haze and some hybrids made with some of this stuff.

http://www.coffeeshopmenus.org/Dampk...Dampkring.html

Original Dampkring (HandbooGstraat) coffeeshop does indeed still offer legit gear.
Their Piff Haze actually is Bandaid#7 but remains labelled as Piff Haze for thats how it was labelled initially by the good people making the cutting available in Holland.
Apart from this all off the old Haze Hybrids offered by OD’s are solid which in many other shops sadly wasn’t and still isn’t the case.
Labels and names on coffeeshop menu’s doesn’t always mean it corresponds to the actual cutting or even mentioned strain.
This is mainly due to the still completely hypocritical legislation concerning growing weed in Holland, it still remains 100% illegal.
In to many cases it’s just one big scam these names or labels, including supposed OHaze offerings.
Not saying it ain’t possible but from experience i know the product often doesn’t live up to its menu label.

 

[djonkoman]

I'm curious does any coffee shop still carry those haze hybrids or have they also switch to what is carried at most dispensaries in the USA?

it might vary a bit per part of the country, but in my experience you're still pretty much guaranteed to find at least 1 haze-hybrid in every shop, while kushes are a bit more of a novelty. newer american strains than kushes you can also find sometimes, for example I've seen guerilla glue 4 and zkittlez on the menu of my local shop (both were temporary, while they always keep some sort of haze on the menu). but my guess would be the name 'amnesia', 'silver haze' or 'lemon haze' still sells far better to the average dutch smoker than 'guerilla glue 4'. although I do have one friend who was very enthousiastic about gg4 (because of him I gave the one from the local shop a try, but it wasn't anything special. the silver haze there is far better, unfortunatly the silver haze has gone downhill since 2 years ago or so one of their growers got busted)
haze is also more a category, the most sativa and the most expensive you'll find on the menu is pretty much always some sort of haze, and usually the upper half of the menu(sorted on price) is dominated by hazes. while the gg4 and other american strains end up somewhere more in the middle of the menu, so far more replacable by any other random commercial strain. they just keep cycling through those to keep a fresh name on the menu I guess.
it might be different in amsterdam though since they cater more to american tourists, but I've only been in amsterdam a handfull of times.

 

[Hammerhead]

I did notice the flowing times don't seem correct. . GG#4 is not a 14 week cut.. She is a solid 10 week or less. If there cut is doing that its not GG#4

 

[TheDarkStorm]

The old crew were never interested in anything holding skunk thus never held any skunk/Hz cuttings.
The only one i grew later on is the OldSkoolHz i was gifted with by its preserver.
I liked growing the cutting although it holds a very distinct rather pungent aroma that I don’t like so much.

....I was just interested in your opinion from your point of veiw....and what you guys might of seen with them.....no worries through....thanks for the reply

 

[TheDarkStorm]

But did Sam make the seeds , Or did he collect them from the field after a bust and fled to Holland ?

Hold on first there was no seeds....but cuttings selected by sam...not sure of them being male or female....then it was only seeds made in Holland.....now it was no old seeds ever existed.....not older than 76......I guess nevil just pulled a number of of a hat.....and guess what....oh he just happens to get the exact year the haze brothers got the seeds they started with in 1969....wow how lucky was nevil dreaming up that date.....then its a case of..oh but nevils old seeds didnt pop....what makes certain folk think that...oh maybe cus the other half didnt pop...no wonder they had to fall back on the little bit of the 76 seeds...oh cus nevils old stock didnt pop he had to have used the clones he was given....hhhmmm strange..some people were actually around when nevil himself was giving out the stuff ....and the 76 line and first generation hybrids using certain cuttings from the 76 line were put out.....hhhmmm strange they wernt the same...seeds bred from 76 haze were made in Holland..hold on tho...there is more to come....pull the thread and things start to unravel....the dates nevil mentioned went further back then 1969.

 

[@hempy]

knology

Hold on first there was no seeds....but cuttings selected by sam...not sure of them being male or female....then it was only seeds made in Holland.....now it was no old seeds ever existed.....not older than 76......I guess nevil just pulled a number of of a hat.....and guess what....oh he just happens to get the exact year the haze brothers got the seeds they started with in 1969....wow how lucky was nevil dreaming up that date.....then its a case of..oh but nevils old seeds didnt pop....what makes certain folk think that...oh maybe cus the other half didnt pop...no wonder they had to fall back on the little bit of the 76 seeds...oh cus nevils old stock didnt pop he had to have used the clones he was given....hhhmmm strange..some people were actually around when nevil himself was giving out the stuff ....and the 76 line and first generation hybrids using certain cuttings from the 76 line were put out.....hhhmmm strange they wernt the same...seeds bred from 76 haze were made in Holland..hold on tho...there is more to come....pull the thread and things start to unravel....the dates nevil mentioned went further back then 1969.

Sums it up nicely Dark.

Nevil answered every question put to him once he came out of the shadows and once his side of the story was public you would think it would be left at that but no it still goes on today and clearly Nevil's side of this story is for some not what they wanted to hear.

In the years i became friends with Nevil i was fortunate and able to ask him every thing i ever wanted to know about the Haze he got and the work he did with haze and Nevil like him or not was an open book and a intricate part to the haze story.

He told me what the plants were like the work he did from him making pure haze to the reversing of Haze C and making C squared as he called it and i tried to post the information i was given but all i got for my efforts was a big fk you hempy.

Now i will let people go try and work it out for them self's Nevil did leave a lot of information about breeding behind for those that value his work and seek his knology a lot of its there if you seek it.

One of the things he taught me about was how to find and dig for ancestors now imagine if the energy wasted on what i call complete bull shit was put towards working together to preserve and improve Haze were we would of been now.

 

[Donald Mallard]

oh im sure folks like to hear it hempy ,
its interesting and sometimes quite useful ,
but if it contradicts the story of the guy who gave him the seeds in the first place ,
of course folks are going to scratch their heads in wonder ,

its no secret nevil thrived on controversy,
he was well aware that sells seeds too ,
his marketing skills probably went well beyond his breeding skills ,
since all the seed he used was already worked by someone or another ,
or reproduced , remade etc ... so in fact he never really bred them ,
he just collected them and tried every combination of them until something stood out ,
in some poeples books , thats not really the same as breeding new varieties using landrace strains ,
but it can still be good and well received ,
new combinations are often fantastic , this is whats so excellent about cannabis ,
then added to that the fact that different conditions , ferts , grow mediums etc ,
can slightly alter the results, the fun just goes on and on ...
and indeed it is a bonus for the consumers and their potential customers etc ...


i understand you worship the guy hempy , that doesnt mean we all have to see him in the same light ,
thats the beauty of the human race too , we all see things a little differently and we dont have to agree ,
doesnt mean we are dissing the guy , just we dont need to envy, worship , or praise them the same ,
perhaps some of us are even being a bit more real since our judgments are not clouded so much with hero worship ...
nor are we trying to boost our own self importance by hanging off someone elses nut sack so to speak...

 

[TheDarkStorm]

oh im sure folks like to hear it hempy ,
its interesting and sometimes quite useful ,
but if it contradicts the story of the guy who gave him the seeds in the first place ,
of course folks are going to scratch their heads in wonder ,

its no secret nevil thrived on controversy,
he was well aware that sells seeds too ,
his marketing skills probably went well beyond his breeding skills ,
since all the seed he used was already worked by someone or another ,
or reproduced , remade etc ... so in fact he never really bred them ,
he just collected them and tried every combination of them until something stood out ,
in some poeples books , thats not really the same as breeding new varieties using landrace strains ,
but it can still be good and well received ,
new combinations are often fantastic , this is whats so excellent about cannabis ,
then added to that the fact that different conditions , ferts , grow mediums etc ,
can slightly alter the results, the fun just goes on and on ...
and indeed it is a bonus for the consumers and their potential customers etc ...


i understand you worship the guy hempy , that doesnt mean we all have to see him in the same light ,
thats the beauty of the human race too , we all see things a little differently and we dont have to agree ,
doesnt mean we are dissing the guy , just we dont need to envy, worship , or praise them the same ,
perhaps some of us are even being a bit more real since our judgments are not clouded so much with hero worship ...
nor are we trying to boost our own self importance by hanging off someone elses nut sack so to speak...

Ive not got a thing against Sam Donald..i actually think sam coming from a era were clones originally wernt used is one of the best ther ever has been in locking an preserving things in to seed form for excellent breeding materials....infact I had a fare couple exchanges with him about the haze topic...wich were done on here...but once deleted it was as if people who seen them made out they didn't happen....even recognised the description id got off nevil of the 70's seed and recognized it as brians haze...and in fact sam is probably doing the right thing in trying to make sure the guys who give him the seeds get the credit....but shall we see what they say.....big herb spoke directly to them....I do have afew word directly from the guy...but lets take a look at what they said to big herb....lets see if people can see whats really going on with these 69 seeds and see whats going on.

I myself dont gain no importance or anything from this....other people may think they have something to lose or gain but I dont....not a zilch.
​​

 

[@hempy]

oh im sure folks like to hear it hempy ,
its interesting and sometimes quite useful ,
but if it contradicts the story of the guy who gave him the seeds in the first place ,
of course folks are going to scratch their heads in wonder ,

its no secret nevil thrived on controversy,
he was well aware that sells seeds too ,
his marketing skills probably went well beyond his breeding skills ,
since all the seed he used was already worked by someone or another ,
or reproduced , remade etc ... so in fact he never really bred them ,
he just collected them and tried every combination of them until something stood out ,
in some poeples books , thats not really the same as breeding new varieties using landrace strains ,
but it can still be good and well received ,
new combinations are often fantastic , this is whats so excellent about cannabis ,
then added to that the fact that different conditions , ferts , grow mediums etc ,
can slightly alter the results, the fun just goes on and on ...
and indeed it is a bonus for the consumers and their potential customers etc ...


i understand you worship the guy hempy , that doesnt mean we all have to see him in the same light ,
thats the beauty of the human race too , we all see things a little differently and we dont have to agree ,
doesnt mean we are dissing the guy , just we dont need to envy, worship , or praise them the same ,
perhaps some of us are even being a bit more real since our judgments are not clouded so much with hero worship ...
nor are we trying to boost our own self importance by hanging off someone elses nut sack so to speak...

You really have a hard on for Nevil don't you Donald you are not in the league of Nevil when it comes to cannabis breeding and to be honest few were that is why he was given the title king of cannabis.

You and a few others posting in here over look the FACTS Dark eloquently pointed out clearly its looking more and more like an agenda fueled front and not based on getting to the facts. You grow his work why not grow Sam's work out if you dislike Nevil so much ?. If you as you put it feel (Nevil's marketing skills probably went well beyond his breeding skills) Why grow his work .

Nothing Nevil worked with was stable not NL not Haze nothing give credit were credit is due because it really is coming across as sour grapes and jealousy.

I don't worship any man Donald as i said before Nevil was my friend he earned my trust and respect it was not given freely i asked nothing from him unlike most that tried to use him for there own benefit or agendas..

 

[TheDarkStorm]

So this is big herbs article and what the haze crew say directly too him....lets see who can spot what is so suspect .

The True Origin of Haze
Author Big Herb
It all began in 1969, In Santa Cruz, California. At the time, there was Thai Oaxacan and punto rojo or Colombian red point - some of the best landrace imports in the area, and some of the best smoke around. It was also at this time a local sufer boy named G, was enjoying his youth as many others during that era of freedom. Not particularly the cannabis lover, G. did not have the passion that most of us have for the sacred plant. Despite this, G saw an opportunity to make a quick buck while having a free smoke and some fun. In 1969, the riverside SoCal surfer backcrossed his punto rojo bagseed in what might be the luckiest” accident. This accident would go on to become most famous cannabis strain of all time. The pollen chuck created a very large amount of seed which was used for the duration of its existence.

During the next year the seeds produced the four varieties. I was given a description by Sams of “fruity``, “sour``,“rootbeer``,“cola``,“c hocolate`` and “hashy``. Later, a more accurate description of each variety was given. The first being Magenta, which those in the inner-circle knew as the “Rootbeer pheno``, and the rest of the world knew as “purple haze``. Then, there was the “Gold`` which was known to carry musky sandlewood and pine traits. In actuality it smelt like catpiss late in flower, and before a cure. “Blue`` and “silver`` were of the Spicy Sweet peppery type, and silver was considered strongest- all of them had a deep rich lingering after-taste. The four varieties of original haze (magenta, gold, silver, and blue) were never stable, and each year had slight variations. The leaf pattern was always the same, and the colors were not cold induced. The calyxes only showed color as the leaf were always bright green. An indicator of true haze lineage is the appearance of a red sap when you cut a true haze plant. This indicator particularly showed itself in the purple pheno. The best plants were always volunteers from the previous year’s seed droppings.

The effect is what stood in memories of those lucky enough to experience this gem. Compared to be “acid-like``, it had a euphoric feeling which was very clear. This feeling was accompanied by extreme happiness and periods of laughter, while having no ceiling effect. What made the plant so special was the long period in which she stood in ground. The special plant stood in the ground for around nine months which cannot even compare to the eight to ten week indoor varieties of today. The long duration of the growth gave the plant the time to develop its complex flavors, aromas, and most of all, its effects. The harvest time is what’s known as harvest moon and takes place around December-many months of paranoia. In those days, the knowledge wasn’t as abundant or available as it is with today’s technological advances. The ripening of the trichomes wasn’t an indicator of when to harvest. Rather, pure instinct and a watchful eye coupled with patience were used for harvest. The plants weren’t selectively cut down after a nerve racking, and painstaking nine months. It was at this point in time that the entire crop was chopped down.

There is in existence, a famous yet quite rare “Original Haze Poster- The Cosmic Boogie -1976``. The poster explains in detail the soil recipe used, and both the germination and harvest times. This gorgeous master piece is credited to R.L. who was a partner of G, and one of the main growers for few years. Along with R.L., his girlfriend, and a graphic street artist, the poster was collaborative effort. A group effort, it was R.L’s idea, and his lovely girlfriend’s creative writing, along with the help from friends and the artist’s skillful work. The poster was sold at a local supply store, and was kept hidden under the counter. In order to obtain the item, you had to be in the know. Can you dig it.

G, the creator and main grower had a partner named R.L. for a few seasons. R.L. lived nearby and had his own greenhouse. G and R.L. grew upward of 150 pounds of haze each year. The pair never went by the name the haze brothers. The haze seed was highly protected and the grows were under tight control. Few were lucky enough to be part of the growing efforts. There were actually several players involved, but again they were all closely guarded. Many wanted in on the Haze grows, but access was strictly-off limits. R.C was one of them. Better known as Robert C.Clarke, R.C. was from the Cruz and was attending college at the time, practicing his craft- experimenting like a mad scientist, and working his way toward a bachelors and masters degree. R.C. followed his passion, and has made many contributions to our community since then with his books and articles. Another young man who lived in the Cruz , now known as Sam the Skunkman, went on to become a prolific figure in the cannabis movement and industry. The man’s contributions are immeasurable and his passion has shaped the cannabis evolution today. The effects of his contributions can especially be seen in what is considered today to be the cannabis Mecca Holland. When SAMS and R.C. came to Holland in 1984, the standard changed for high quality bud in Holland- a traditionally hash smoking country. Along with many of California’s praised genetics, he introduced Europe to haze.

During the seventies, three brothers from new jersey, two of whom were attending college in the Cruz , started to bring large amounts of the haze back east during a series of trips. The three brothers lets call Joey Bobby and Petey. All three brothers were great writers and cannabis connoisseurs who were the ones to coin the name “haze brothers``. While No one else called them by the name, the Santa Cruz team had created more creative names for the brothers. The eldest brother, J whom I spoke with recently has been quite busy and furthermore successful is doing quite well. Throughout the years, J followed his passion went on to become a great writer and still lives in the Cruz. Back then, J was cut out of the circle for breaking the cardinal rule which was the kiss of death. The brothers were strictly consumers that brokered large amounts of haze back east. They knew nothing about growing it, but they were very familiar with smoking it. During the late 1970’s, most of the haze on the east coast, particularly the tri-state area, came from the brothers.

The haze seed was Never sold, and remained highly protected for good reason. With the wide spread distribution of the haze, at its height of operation hundreds of pounds were produced. It is no wonder that others tried to create their own legend or tale of discovery, and so we see haze traits in various hybrids. So, the idea of haze seed landing in hands of many far and wide is highly probable as there was occasionally a seed found. There is no question that over the course of years, beans got spread. Others outside the circle smoked the haze and likely grew out of the seeds that were found here and there. So, there is the blue dream haze hybrid from Cali along with NYC hazes and many others which are not spoken of or shared. The haze survives in many hybrids all along the both coast, then you have the Dutch offerings which we have Sam to thank for.

The year 1976 was a very eventful year- The years crops were enormous. The year brought Extraordinary Haze flowers- many so huge that the branches broke because of the weight. This was the year the historic haze poster was released, and it was also at time that G and R.L had a fallout that ended their partnership. For a short time after, R.L did his own grow locally, then went to Mexico. Rumor has it that he went to grow large scale for a syndicate. G hasn’t spoke to R.L since the split, and it is thought he might be deceased.

The haze survives today in several known hybrids- once again thanks to Sams. The taste and the aromas can be recognized by some of the old timers who were privileged enough to have experienced the haze from Santa Cruz. As for the effects, that is another story. Now, Sam the skunk man has without doubt brought original haze stock to Holland, but in exactly what form, pure or hybrid, is unknown. G said that he did not give SAMS haze stock, But acknowledges he did live on the block and did some trimming. Therefore there is the possibility he collected seed working with, or smoking the varieties. Personally I believe that the latter was more probable. Sam had relations with R.L., and he had much of the same seed stock that G worked with. Remember, R.L. did his own thing for a while, and it’s very likely Sams got plenty of seeds from him. This is quite clear by many post of Sams that reference his haze genetics from 1976.

Thanks to Sam the skunk man’s preservation, the haze has survived in several forms from a number of different companies. The reported haze stock which was once, and probably still is pure can be found from the flying Dutchmen, Seedsman and Tom hill. The most prestigious hybrids come from MNS- Mr. Nice seedbank from haze stock obtained by Nevil Schoenmaker in 1985, from Sams. Then there is Cultivator’s choice selections of haze hybrids made from SAMS- some of which are still available. In 1981, just as the accident came about, it all ended. After about a 10 year run, the haze failed to produce. The buds were too thin and wispy for commercial production. It started as an accident, a pollen chuck, and since G was not a breeder, he never stabilized or backcrossed the plant. As a result of this the plant soon died out .The search was on for something new. Sams returned to the cruz and sold G a large amount of Skunk seed which was easier to grow, and which happily filled the void.

Always Remember that the Original haze started with the sufer boy G thenexpanded with R.L. G and R.L never referred to themselves as the Haze Brothers- that title goes to the three brothers from New Jersey who are responsible for introducing much of the east coast to the magic from Santa Cruz. The title original haze thought of by G, is derived from Jimi Hendrix purple haze song. Sams is responsible for spreading haze stock by bringing it to Holland. It is because of his preservation, determination, and dedication and love of this sacred plant that the younger generations, such as myself, still have the opportunity to have a taste of the most magical strain of all time.

For the haze heads, I’d like to say that G is doing well ,while his memories are fading. (The time has come for the true origins of the original haze to be told, and for G’s story to forever burn. In our mind, hearts, and haze blooded bud we bud for eternity. ) Haze seeds are still held by G as I’m sure some others. While there hasn’t been any success with germination, as of recent, several attempts and methods have been applied and anything is possible. Keep in mind the same way the accident started it can happen again. So let’s get cracking.

Much love, respect, and thanks to everyone mentioned above. Credit goes to DJ of Santa Cruz who has been patient and kind enough to share his experiences as well as G’s with me. This is compiled from my many hours of haze homework, extremely deep passion to know every detail and my relentless pursuit of the truth. This is the story I was told this is the true origins of haze.

 

[Donald Mallard]

You really have a hard on for Nevil don't you Donald you are not in the league of Nevil when it comes to cannabis breeding and to be honest few were that is why he was given the title king of cannabis.

You and a few others posting in here over look the FACTS Dark eloquently pointed out clearly its looking more and more like an agenda fueled front and not based on getting to the facts. You grow his work why not grow Sam's work out if you dislike Nevil so much ?. If you as you put it feel (Nevil's marketing skills probably went well beyond his breeding skills) Why grow his work .

Nothing Nevil worked with was stable not NL not Haze nothing give credit were credit is due because it really is coming across as sour grapes and jealousy.

I don't worship any man Donald as i said before Nevil was my friend he earned my trust and respect it was not given freely i asked nothing from him unlike most that tried to use him for there own benefit or agendas..

your perceptions are so off hempy ,
i didnt diss nevil at all in what i said ,
but you with your victim mentality only sees attacks,

where did i mention any of my so called skills ??
why even include that ,that is in fact starting to be personal attacks that are unwarranted ,
i didnt attack anyone man ..
you are just a poor reader and get on the defensive due to your hero worship that u say you dont have ...

and for the record ,, the stuff mr moon made ,, all from landrace varieties he collected ,
is/was as good as anything on the market , and he made it himself with no dutch or pre worked varieties ,
just landraces ,
in my books that definitely put his skills above nevils,
is moon famous , no , he doesnt care about that shit ,
nor do i , doesnt mean someone hasnt done good work just because they didnt seek fame ...
nevil was very keen for moons work btw , despite what you have said ...
and he loved the fame breeding cannabis in the early days brought him ...

if you read what i said , it never says nevils work is shit ,
just that the skills it takes to make seed from scratch using landraces ,
isnt something he possessed, he preferred to take the short cut and use other peoples already worked stuff ,
this is a fact ....
nevils work is good , because he used good stuff to work with ,
credit where its due , he definitely knew how to find and how to get the best from what he collected ,
and as a result his work is definitely worth growing , and yes i have grown it and enjoyed it ,
i have never denied that man ...

dont read into things i havent written and learn how to respond more diplomatically without the victim bullshit ,
and trying to point fingers about apparent wrong doings when there are none ,
it distracts and detracts from the conversation and takes it down another path ,
respond with facts , quotes to back them up etc hempy ,
otherwise , other than trying to correct the misinformation you trot out,
your not really worth responding too man ...

 

[Hammerhead]

Wasnt Arjan from green house seeds also called the king of cannabis. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere,.

Yeppers here it is
Arjan Roskam is often referred to as the king of cannabis. He is the founder of Green House Coffee shops in Amsterdam. His famous strains have won over 30 cannabis cups.

 

[@hempy]

Wasnt Arjan from green house seeds also called the king of cannabis. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere,.

Yeppers here it is
Arjan Roskam is often referred to as the king of cannabis. He is the founder of Green House Coffee shops in Amsterdam. His famous strains have won over 30 cannabis cups.

Rajan crowned him self the king of cannabis were others named and crowned Nevil king of cannabis huge difference.

The cups won by GHS were breed by Nevil or shanti non of Nevil's lines parental lines were ever at GHS.