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The Haze discussion thread

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@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
So this is big herbs article and what the haze crew say directly too him....lets see who can spot what is so suspect .

The True Origin of Haze
Author Big Herb
It all began in 1969, In Santa Cruz, California. At the time, there was Thai Oaxacan and punto rojo or Colombian red point - some of the best landrace imports in the area, and some of the best smoke around. It was also at this time a local sufer boy named G, was enjoying his youth as many others during that era of freedom. Not particularly the cannabis lover, G. did not have the passion that most of us have for the sacred plant. Despite this, G saw an opportunity to make a quick buck while having a free smoke and some fun. In 1969, the riverside SoCal surfer backcrossed his punto rojo bagseed in what might be the luckiest” accident. This accident would go on to become most famous cannabis strain of all time. The pollen chuck created a very large amount of seed which was used for the duration of its existence.

During the next year the seeds produced the four varieties. I was given a description by Sams of “fruity``, “sour``,“rootbeer``,“cola``,“c hocolate`` and “hashy``. Later, a more accurate description of each variety was given. The first being Magenta, which those in the inner-circle knew as the “Rootbeer pheno``, and the rest of the world knew as “purple haze``. Then, there was the “Gold`` which was known to carry musky sandlewood and pine traits. In actuality it smelt like catpiss late in flower, and before a cure. “Blue`` and “silver`` were of the Spicy Sweet peppery type, and silver was considered strongest- all of them had a deep rich lingering after-taste. The four varieties of original haze (magenta, gold, silver, and blue) were never stable, and each year had slight variations. The leaf pattern was always the same, and the colors were not cold induced. The calyxes only showed color as the leaf were always bright green. An indicator of true haze lineage is the appearance of a red sap when you cut a true haze plant. This indicator particularly showed itself in the purple pheno. The best plants were always volunteers from the previous year’s seed droppings.

The effect is what stood in memories of those lucky enough to experience this gem. Compared to be “acid-like``, it had a euphoric feeling which was very clear. This feeling was accompanied by extreme happiness and periods of laughter, while having no ceiling effect. What made the plant so special was the long period in which she stood in ground. The special plant stood in the ground for around nine months which cannot even compare to the eight to ten week indoor varieties of today. The long duration of the growth gave the plant the time to develop its complex flavors, aromas, and most of all, its effects. The harvest time is what’s known as harvest moon and takes place around December-many months of paranoia. In those days, the knowledge wasn’t as abundant or available as it is with today’s technological advances. The ripening of the trichomes wasn’t an indicator of when to harvest. Rather, pure instinct and a watchful eye coupled with patience were used for harvest. The plants weren’t selectively cut down after a nerve racking, and painstaking nine months. It was at this point in time that the entire crop was chopped down.

There is in existence, a famous yet quite rare “Original Haze Poster- The Cosmic Boogie -1976``. The poster explains in detail the soil recipe used, and both the germination and harvest times. This gorgeous master piece is credited to R.L. who was a partner of G, and one of the main growers for few years. Along with R.L., his girlfriend, and a graphic street artist, the poster was collaborative effort. A group effort, it was R.L’s idea, and his lovely girlfriend’s creative writing, along with the help from friends and the artist’s skillful work. The poster was sold at a local supply store, and was kept hidden under the counter. In order to obtain the item, you had to be in the know. Can you dig it.

G, the creator and main grower had a partner named R.L. for a few seasons. R.L. lived nearby and had his own greenhouse. G and R.L. grew upward of 150 pounds of haze each year. The pair never went by the name the haze brothers. The haze seed was highly protected and the grows were under tight control. Few were lucky enough to be part of the growing efforts. There were actually several players involved, but again they were all closely guarded. Many wanted in on the Haze grows, but access was strictly-off limits. R.C was one of them. Better known as Robert C.Clarke, R.C. was from the Cruz and was attending college at the time, practicing his craft- experimenting like a mad scientist, and working his way toward a bachelors and masters degree. R.C. followed his passion, and has made many contributions to our community since then with his books and articles. Another young man who lived in the Cruz , now known as Sam the Skunkman, went on to become a prolific figure in the cannabis movement and industry. The man’s contributions are immeasurable and his passion has shaped the cannabis evolution today. The effects of his contributions can especially be seen in what is considered today to be the cannabis Mecca Holland. When SAMS and R.C. came to Holland in 1984, the standard changed for high quality bud in Holland- a traditionally hash smoking country. Along with many of California’s praised genetics, he introduced Europe to haze.

During the seventies, three brothers from new jersey, two of whom were attending college in the Cruz , started to bring large amounts of the haze back east during a series of trips. The three brothers lets call Joey Bobby and Petey. All three brothers were great writers and cannabis connoisseurs who were the ones to coin the name “haze brothers``. While No one else called them by the name, the Santa Cruz team had created more creative names for the brothers. The eldest brother, J whom I spoke with recently has been quite busy and furthermore successful is doing quite well. Throughout the years, J followed his passion went on to become a great writer and still lives in the Cruz. Back then, J was cut out of the circle for breaking the cardinal rule which was the kiss of death. The brothers were strictly consumers that brokered large amounts of haze back east. They knew nothing about growing it, but they were very familiar with smoking it. During the late 1970’s, most of the haze on the east coast, particularly the tri-state area, came from the brothers.

The haze seed was Never sold, and remained highly protected for good reason. With the wide spread distribution of the haze, at its height of operation hundreds of pounds were produced. It is no wonder that others tried to create their own legend or tale of discovery, and so we see haze traits in various hybrids. So, the idea of haze seed landing in hands of many far and wide is highly probable as there was occasionally a seed found. There is no question that over the course of years, beans got spread. Others outside the circle smoked the haze and likely grew out of the seeds that were found here and there. So, there is the blue dream haze hybrid from Cali along with NYC hazes and many others which are not spoken of or shared. The haze survives in many hybrids all along the both coast, then you have the Dutch offerings which we have Sam to thank for.

The year 1976 was a very eventful year- The years crops were enormous. The year brought Extraordinary Haze flowers- many so huge that the branches broke because of the weight. This was the year the historic haze poster was released, and it was also at time that G and R.L had a fallout that ended their partnership. For a short time after, R.L did his own grow locally, then went to Mexico. Rumor has it that he went to grow large scale for a syndicate. G hasn’t spoke to R.L since the split, and it is thought he might be deceased.

The haze survives today in several known hybrids- once again thanks to Sams. The taste and the aromas can be recognized by some of the old timers who were privileged enough to have experienced the haze from Santa Cruz. As for the effects, that is another story. Now, Sam the skunk man has without doubt brought original haze stock to Holland, but in exactly what form, pure or hybrid, is unknown. G said that he did not give SAMS haze stock, But acknowledges he did live on the block and did some trimming. Therefore there is the possibility he collected seed working with, or smoking the varieties. Personally I believe that the latter was more probable. Sam had relations with R.L., and he had much of the same seed stock that G worked with. Remember, R.L. did his own thing for a while, and it’s very likely Sams got plenty of seeds from him. This is quite clear by many post of Sams that reference his haze genetics from 1976.

Thanks to Sam the skunk man’s preservation, the haze has survived in several forms from a number of different companies. The reported haze stock which was once, and probably still is pure can be found from the flying Dutchmen, Seedsman and Tom hill. The most prestigious hybrids come from MNS- Mr. Nice seedbank from haze stock obtained by Nevil Schoenmaker in 1985, from Sams. Then there is Cultivator’s choice selections of haze hybrids made from SAMS- some of which are still available. In 1981, just as the accident came about, it all ended. After about a 10 year run, the haze failed to produce. The buds were too thin and wispy for commercial production. It started as an accident, a pollen chuck, and since G was not a breeder, he never stabilized or backcrossed the plant. As a result of this the plant soon died out .The search was on for something new. Sams returned to the cruz and sold G a large amount of Skunk seed which was easier to grow, and which happily filled the void.

Always Remember that the Original haze started with the sufer boy G thenexpanded with R.L. G and R.L never referred to themselves as the Haze Brothers- that title goes to the three brothers from New Jersey who are responsible for introducing much of the east coast to the magic from Santa Cruz. The title original haze thought of by G, is derived from Jimi Hendrix purple haze song. Sams is responsible for spreading haze stock by bringing it to Holland. It is because of his preservation, determination, and dedication and love of this sacred plant that the younger generations, such as myself, still have the opportunity to have a taste of the most magical strain of all time.

For the haze heads, I’d like to say that G is doing well ,while his memories are fading. (The time has come for the true origins of the original haze to be told, and for G’s story to forever burn. In our mind, hearts, and haze blooded bud we bud for eternity. ) Haze seeds are still held by G as I’m sure some others. While there hasn’t been any success with germination, as of recent, several attempts and methods have been applied and anything is possible. Keep in mind the same way the accident started it can happen again. So let’s get cracking.

Much love, respect, and thanks to everyone mentioned above. Credit goes to DJ of Santa Cruz who has been patient and kind enough to share his experiences as well as G’s with me. This is compiled from my many hours of haze homework, extremely deep passion to know every detail and my relentless pursuit of the truth. This is the story I was told this is the true origins of haze.

Just a few interesting differences from Sam's version high lighted in black.

How do you back cross a land race when there was no clones kept or why would you back cross a land race that breeds true and how could a land race express so many variety's and be pure.

Also how was Rob Clark working on Haze.

how dose a 3 way cross going by Sam now become a single land race.
 

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
Nevil - I had a total of 6haze plants come up successfully from various years. The first one that came up was a very difficult plant it was a female from the L967 batch, I think, and I didn't really know what I was dealing with, just that they were bld and were very difficult to grow. It grew very big and spindly with very long arms, it filled a quarter of my grow room. It had very fine wipsy buds and it sat there flowering for about nine months ! Of course, being a breeder, during those 9 months I pollinated it with a few different things and then manually harvested those seeds... because it just kept flowering for nine months.

In
the end,I harvested three different crops off that one plant. And when I smoked that plant it was quite an odd thing, unlike anything I had ever smoked before. It had quite a leathery, Thai like, smell and taste. If you smoked it, it made the whole room smell. A good haze still has that property, when you walk into a room where someone has been smoking haze, it can smell quite funlqy. It was unlike anything I'd ever seen before. But because it was such a difficult plant, I thought surely I didn't have to keep a cutting of i!so I didn't !
 

TheDarkStorm

Well-known member
Just a few interesting differences from Sam's version high lighted in black.

How do you back cross a land race when there was no clones kept or why would you back cross a land race that breeds true and how could a land race express so many variety's and be pure.

Also how was Rob Clark working on Haze.

how dose a 3 way cross going by Sam now become a single land race.

See im suprised no one saw this...this artcle has been out nearly 10 years....so the guys say a suffer kid got some seed and saw dollars signs.....he must of had amazing forsight to know his bag seed that tons of people had was worth money and that it would become this haze strain....more like they already knew the seeds were special....next thing yeah big herb says punto rojo bag seed...but the fact is they wernt even sure if it was Columbian gold or punto roja...and I can show you that in their own words....sam isnt silly enough after getting those seeds later to say they are punto rojo or columbian gold...as a guy with some experience he knows its a hybrid and as a educated guess says a hybrid of lumbos...but to me directly he admitted no one knows for sure....anyway these guys do a single pollen chuck they say in 69/70 and created a huge huge bag of seeds...and say this is the seed they used for the next ten years......so can you tell me why they slip up and the truth comes out and they say " the best plants were volunteers from the previous years seed droppings....oh sam also pulled out seeds from the 76 batch....I can also show you were you see in 80/81 that crop failed to produce were its said by those guys and sam it failed to produce due to being inbred....
So why would someone say they made a huge batch of seed in 69/70....wen its clear they used something from somewere once and then caried on their own line from this.

so 80/81 this crop fails to produce....huge bag of seeds from 69/70......sam make a list in 80/81 with 4 different haze types pluss burning bush, new years haze and guess what...brians haze is on there too....sam was pretty adamant the haze crew never had no seeds left...linked them up a whole leep of skunk seed in 80/81 too..nice trade......then you get a ibl 76 haze line thats already been inbred 7 years....im surprised after 4 inbreeding sams didnt mess up exactly like the haze crews did in 80/81...oh thats probably due to the thai, and kerlan and maybe mexican blood open pollinated into large amounts of haze in Holland....should keep it sweet....oh you can also find old pictures of quite afew completely different looking haze plants ...all in 80/81....dont see them no more...you only see sams plant that looks much like the 76 plant.....but he did grow them...remember he made a list in 80/81...
If I had the 76 line as it is now I would want to get hold of hazeC too and want too know if its still accessible...as I was already asked.
 

GoatCheese

Active member
Veteran
2019 menu, prob still the same?. It looks like a mix with some unknowns ..

It’s prolly because of Covid-19 the Dampkring menus are so old, usually it has been one of the more updated shop regarding menus.
When i was visiting the town more often around 2012-2015 the old Nevils’s stuff came and went every few months depending what the growers brought in, but i see the same strains are still there.
Personally i’ve only tried their Nevil’s Haze which was nice and clear, no rush or paranoia.

Here’s Adam Coffeeshop Directory forums where people review and talk about the smoke in town/Holland:
http://www.coffeeshopdirect.com/forum/index.php

-
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When in comes to info about flowering times and THC% on the menus of different shops, i wouldn't pay too much mind to those, thou De Dampkring is the more professional shops in town.Some shops are cluelss about the stuff they are selling; sativa leaning hybrids are placed in the indica category and vice versa; different names for the same batch of hash depending on the shop etc.
 

CannaT

starin' at the world through my rearview
Hi,Haze heads maybe haze is mix of thai,columbian and indian mexican.....In the 1960s and 1970s, North American cannabis traffickers made inroads into Colombia, leading to booming production in the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta and the Urabá peninsula, where cannabis was smuggled in the region's massive northward shipments of bananas.

So in reality Cannabis smuglers from USA send seeds in Columbia and they were grown.
They bring there seeds from Vietnam wars and Middle East....and genetics are mixed in fileds........we shurley dont know...so in reality in genes of haze there culd be indian,afghan,thai,caribean but they are cultivated and adopted to columbian climate over 10-20 years.....we surley dont know.

Also south america was hub for Black ops of various services from USA.....and they need lots of money ,,lots of money mean tons of great weed....

The real takeoff of Colombian marijuana production began in the mid- and late 1960s as a result of the growing demand generated by the United States market. By the early 1970s, Colombia had emerged as a major United States supplier, although most of the market remained in the hands of Mexican traffickers. When in the early 1970s the United States tightened up drug enforcement along the United States-Mexican border and the Mexican state launched a major drive against its domestic producers, the epicenter of marijuana production in the hemisphere rapidly shifted to Colombia, especially to the Guajira Peninsula and the slopes of the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta. By the end of the decade, Colombia accounted for about 70 percent of the marijuana reaching the United States from abroad. Between 30,000 and 50,000 small farmers along Colombia's Caribbean coast came to depend directly on marijuana cultivation for their livelihood, while at least another 50,000 Colombians--including seasonal pickers, transporters, guards, and bankers--made a living from it.
 

CannaT

starin' at the world through my rearview
So maybe Haze have genetics from all around the world but in realitiy it was grown more than decade in columbia aka 10 generations so it is ok to call it columbian.
If these we put on people. If my 10 generations aka 500 years i live in some conutry it is ok to consider myself columbian or german ....
 

mr.brunch

Well-known member
Veteran
One thing I can’t shake..
in the original seed bank description of haze, it says quite clearly that haze is “from America, very popular in the 70’s” and then “we got seeds from the last crop grown in the us”
if it was popular in the 70’s, it must have been grown throughout the 70’s, so the seeds which came from the last crop in the USA cannot have also come from 1969.
one of the statements is untrue- it can’t be both ways.
 

mexcurandero420

See the world through a puff of smoke
Veteran
Hi,Haze heads maybe haze is mix of thai,columbian and indian mexican.....In the 1960s and 1970s, North American cannabis traffickers made inroads into Colombia, leading to booming production in the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta and the Urabá peninsula, where cannabis was smuggled in the region's massive northward shipments of bananas.

So in reality Cannabis smuglers from USA send seeds in Columbia and they were grown.
They bring there seeds from Vietnam wars and Middle East....and genetics are mixed in fileds........we shurley dont know...so in reality in genes of haze there culd be indian,afghan,thai,caribean but they are cultivated and adopted to columbian climate over 10-20 years.....we surley dont know.

Also south america was hub for Black ops of various services from USA.....and they need lots of money ,,lots of money mean tons of great weed....

The real takeoff of Colombian marijuana production began in the mid- and late 1960s as a result of the growing demand generated by the United States market. By the early 1970s, Colombia had emerged as a major United States supplier, although most of the market remained in the hands of Mexican traffickers. When in the early 1970s the United States tightened up drug enforcement along the United States-Mexican border and the Mexican state launched a major drive against its domestic producers, the epicenter of marijuana production in the hemisphere rapidly shifted to Colombia, especially to the Guajira Peninsula and the slopes of the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta. By the end of the decade, Colombia accounted for about 70 percent of the marijuana reaching the United States from abroad. Between 30,000 and 50,000 small farmers along Colombia's Caribbean coast came to depend directly on marijuana cultivation for their livelihood, while at least another 50,000 Colombians--including seasonal pickers, transporters, guards, and bankers--made a living from it.

Mexican seeds were smuggled into the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta in the very early 70s which was bred with their Colombian indica.
 

CannaT

starin' at the world through my rearview
How come that when I was working with Neville, between 1994 and 2001, I got no other strains from him than Neville’s Haze and Super Silver Haze? Well, because he only had Neville's Haze and Super Silver Haze left from his time at Sensi Seeds.
Since 1992 Neville did no breeding work at all, as we, the real breeders, know. Until 1998 Neville was just growing pot with the guys who now have the only medical license in Holland: the Bedrocan crew.

Waterboy, what you keep stating is completely false: you claim that nobody else has the original plants of SSH and NH. Bullshit again. Neville gave them to the people in Tilburg and Breda who are still working with it. Neville gave it to the Bedrocan crew so now the SSH is in the pharmacies all over The Netherlands; Neville gave it to the Nose; Neville gave it to the crazy bitch; Neville gave it to Wendy, who was working for him at one point; and Neville gave it to Misha and Paris. So it’s all over the place.
Actually, Neville himself lost everything in 2002 by a raid on his house in Bemel.....

Find some nice story on old cuts.

This is from GHS letter to Shanti....

So in reality Old cuts are real Nevile old cuts.

And his SSH cut is being found in lineage of Jack Herer.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
20210628_202127.jpg
20210628_194334.jpg

OHz s1 mac
 

TheDarkStorm

Well-known member
How come that when I was working with Neville, between 1994 and 2001, I got no other strains from him than Neville’s Haze and Super Silver Haze? Well, because he only had Neville's Haze and Super Silver Haze left from his time at Sensi Seeds.
Since 1992 Neville did no breeding work at all, as we, the real breeders, know. Until 1998 Neville was just growing pot with the guys who now have the only medical license in Holland: the Bedrocan crew.

Waterboy, what you keep stating is completely false: you claim that nobody else has the original plants of SSH and NH. Bullshit again. Neville gave them to the people in Tilburg and Breda who are still working with it. Neville gave it to the Bedrocan crew so now the SSH is in the pharmacies all over The Netherlands; Neville gave it to the Nose; Neville gave it to the crazy bitch; Neville gave it to Wendy, who was working for him at one point; and Neville gave it to Misha and Paris. So it’s all over the place.
Actually, Neville himself lost everything in 2002 by a raid on his house in Bemel.....

Find some nice story on old cuts.

This is from GHS letter to Shanti....

So in reality Old cuts are real Nevile old cuts.

And his SSH cut is being found in lineage of Jack Herer.

We definitely know hazeC its self was around and still existed in 2003/04 as is was last pictured in Switzerland....the skunk hazeC father was created in the ghs days....as was ssh as was mango haze and nevils haze wich is directly fathered by hazeC ..with mother still existing from 89..and was last made in 1997 by nevil privately..even the bud from these lines being tested and grown out was sold at ghs...only the actual main breeding was done by nevil undercover as he was still wanted...a few people helped with the program like shanti himself....Ther was no reson for nevil to tell anyone what parent plants he had at ghs...he only sold them seeds....and was part owner in the coffee shop
when nevil got last got raided in Holland about 2001/2 believe me they found alot more cuttings than nevils haze and ssh. It was lucky copys of the main plants were already miles away.
 

star crash

We Will Get By ... We Will Survive
ICMag Donor
Veteran
:biggrin:
Panama Red , Panama Red >>> He'll steal your woman, then he'll rob your head
Panama red, panama red
On his white horse, mescalito
He come breezin' through town
I'll bet your woman's up in bed with
Panama red
The judge don't know when red's in town
He keeps well hidden underground
But everybody's acting lazy
Falling out and hangin' 'round
My woman said, "hey pedro
You're actin' crazy like a clown"
Nobody feels like working
Panama red is back in town
Everybody's looking out for him
'Cause they know red's satisfies
Little girls love to listen to him
Sing and tell sweet lies
But when things get too confusing, honey
You're better off in bed
And i'll be searching all the joints in town for
Panama red
 

JohnnyChicago

Well-known member

OHz s1 mac

Nice one, Nexus. Has the structure of pure Gollis. And is very similar to the Golli phenos of OH90 x THH.



Also nice to see how the discussions have evolved here, since you guys were speaking of a cup for the Haze.

I think when we do compare Original Haze to Nevils Haze or others We should not forget that OH is first and foremost a great breeding tool.
That got even used twice by Nevil in his NH.
And that is how it should get primarly seen and compared. As breeding tool.

Also does it really make sense to comapre all the time

"OH x OH" versus "(NLxOH) NL pheno x OH" ?

I even think we underestimate the power of the selected NL used by Nevil in all these haze discussions. But that is a very personal opinion. :)
 
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Alpenglow

Well-known member
Because they can?
I see it like you after all these threads and discussions. OH x OH is for the lovers, preservers.
Make seeds with it, keep it, share it, outcross it to what you have and compare crosses, not the pure line.
 

Raco

secretion engineer
Moderator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
#1 when I was born, Nevil was 1 year old

#2 Sam is quite older...no doubt

#3 Tom believes that his Posi's hz selection has a lot of Thai in it :biggrin:
 
B

Benny106

Maybe the SE asian blood came into the Colombian via the influx of drug smuggling
 

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
Nice one, Nexus. Has the structure of pure Gollis. And is very similar to the Golli phenos of OH90 x THH.



Also nice to see how the discussions have evolved here, since you guys were speaking of a cup for the Haze.

I think when we do compare Original Haze to Nevils Haze or others We should not forget that OH is first and foremost a great breeding tool.
That got even used twice by Nevil in his NH.
And that is how it should get primarly seen and compared. As breeding tool.


Also does it really make sense to comapre all the time

"OH x OH" versus "(NLxOH) NL pheno x OH" ?

I even think we underestimate the power of the selected NL used by Nevil in all these haze discussions. But that is a very personal opinion. :)

The first question i asked Nevil about Haze was why didn't you make pure haze and offer it.

He then explained that he did in fact make pure haze seed he made them with male C and A to the different fems that he had and that was the first time he told me inbreeding was not improving it and the seed he had made was not as good as the parental Haze lines they were made from. He then told me Sam had told him the same that Haze was best out crossed not inbreed.

Nevil then went on to tell me that he had even reversed Haze C male and made haze C Square.

So that is why he went the hybrid road but he knew for years that the only road forward was to use a Haze Male to a pure old school Thai or to a haze that was unrelated to the current offerings.

The males carry the ancestral memory's so by crossing it to a unrelated pure line your going to find haze ancestors and there is were you find the goods.
 

Humple W.

Well-known member
Maybe the SE asian blood came into the Colombian via the influx of drug smuggling

Personally, I'm still curious why Sam is so certain OH is a combination of just three Colombian lines, with nothing else in the mix. We know OH was created before he ever got his hands on it, and even Sam himself has implied that the so-called Haze Brothers didn't know what they were doing, breeding-wise, so how can anyone be sure that no Thai, Mex, or Indian was already in Haze before Sam reproduced it? I must assume Sam is simply stating what he was told by the Brothers, and I guess that is about as authoritative as it's going to get, but the number of experienced Thai-smokers who insist that Haze MUST have at least some Thai genetics is not insignificant.

And then I ask myself why it even matters. I guess this damn thread has sucked me into the mystery!
 
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