The Haze discussion thread

[Donald Mallard]

How would you know were you there did you hand over 1000s for the seed.

No your about discrediting Nevil and his side of the story mate you should stick to the facts.

It dose matter what Nevil says what has no importance in this is your opinion Donald.

come on man , thats enough now , its just getting silly ,
i believe sam because he worked with the seeeds and they were his ,
if anyone labeled them it was him ,
he knows what those seeds were better than anyone ,
even better than nevil would you believe ,, ,,

thats it now im not replying to anymore of your childish tit for tat stuff ...

 

[willydread]

I think the history of the dates is simpler: they weren't really 1969 seeds(or 1967,1968) but rather it was a cataloging system, it's from original 1969 stock, etc., I also catalog some of my stuff that way (rb 2019, rb 2020, etc.)...
One last thing: over the years I have given many seeds, I have never given a single seed of the original stock, unless you want to get rid of the line no breeder will ever sell original stock (or mother / father plants)

 

[Donald Mallard]

I think the history of the dates is simpler: they weren't really 1969 seeds(or 1967,1968) but rather it was a cataloging system, it's from original 1969 stock, etc., I also catalog some of my stuff that way (rb 2019, rb 2020, etc.)...
One last thing: over the years I have given many seeds, I have never given a single seed of the original stock, unless you want to get rid of the line no breeder will ever sell original stock (or mother / father plants)

sounds logical willy,
and agreed on giving away the original stock ,
thats what i was thinking too ,
those things are needed to go back too , and as if sam isnt clued onto that ,
he certainly would be for sure ...

 

[ojd]

Nevil post from the Q for Nevil thread , he never mentioned 1967 and clearly says (After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E. )


The subject of Haze keeps coming up.
I got mine from Sam the Skunkman in the 80's. I bought a couple of thousand of old stock late 60s/ 70. The first batch that I planted produced one plant, a female. It was the slowest to flower I'd ever come across and flowered for longer. I got 3 different crops of seed of it and it had still not finished. It was huge and filled a quarter of the room, it had wispy buds and when you smoked it, other people complained about the smell. It didn't have much resin and after 9 months flowering, with no end in sight, I chopped it. It seem the most impractical plant I'd ever grown. I didn't keep a cutting.

One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.
I'm feeling a bit sad now, I think that I'll go and have a smoke.
I'll tell you the rest later.
N.

After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.

Yes we are very grateful , and is very true this quote because both Sam and Nevil had access to Haze , and if the Sam camp is to to be believed Sam had access to much more Haze seeds and look what was produced from sam Sk1 HZ , Thai Hz by the millions of seeds from his greenhouse and yes some very nice things were found, but Nevil opened the worlds eyes to Haze with his world changing hybrids, especially NL5 Haze , NL5 Haze X's and of course the best of them all Nevil Haze.

Nevil was a smart man and realised that people love Haze taste/High but hated that long flowering time and produced some if not the worlds best Haze hybrids ever seen , and they were that good the clones are still alive and active 30 plus nearly 40 years later.

wait until we see what Nevil did with his last creations before he passed ( RIP) , then we will see some new blood in the same old Haze game thats been worked like a Dutch whore.

Nevil , still the Haze master after all these years.

I challenge any real Haze head in these Haze threads to grow out some of these new Haze's from Nevils work and bring your thoughts/Findings , good or bad to these threads. No grow journal needed.

 

[ojd]

Free Haze seeds to any active member in this or the other Haze threads , no journal needed.
all i want to hear is a few words once sampled , id love to hear and see more if you would like to share with us but that isnt required if you dont want to.

 

[ojd]

FREE SEEDS to any active memeber in any of 3 main Haze threads, no journal needed just that you will grow them asap ( not sell them ) some words when sampled , good or bad.

NH21 x MML Quicker pheno x NH21 xMML (F2)

NH21 x MML longer pheno x NH21xMML (F2)

NH18 x MM pheno 1 x NH21 x MML

NH18 x MM pheno 2 x NH21 x MML

NH18 x MM pheno 3 x NH21 x MML

NH18 x MM pheno 4 x NH21 x MML

Swiss Thai Nevil 1 x NH21 x MML

Swiss Thai Nevil 2 x NH21 x MML

Outback 1 ( wild pheno) x NH21 x MML

Outback 2 ( grail pheno) NH21 x MML

Thai Neville OG Diesel x NH21 x MML

Strawberry Cookies x NH21 x MML

Casey Jones x NH21 x MML

East Coast Casey Jones x NH21 x MML

Diesel Dipped OG x NH21 x MML

Fuel Zkittles OG x NH21 x MML

Hazeolope x NH21 x MML

Purple Cheddar OG x NH21 x MML

 

[Donald Mallard]

im glad for the work he did for sure ,
ive enjoyed many a haze, skunk , nl hybrid over the years ,

nevil gets my thumbs up for his selections and getting those seeds out among the growers ,
im sure the cannabis world would not be quite the same without that ...

 

[ojd]

hempy did u read what the guy who sold nevil the seeds says about the dates nevil has mentioned ,
he said no way , those dates are wrong ,
he never sold any seeds the haze brothers made ,

so i am not making anything up or discrediting anyone man ,
so stop with the instigations ,
i believe the story of the guy who had the seeds in his possession
who likely made the seeds, ,
who would have put the "said labels" on the bags ,
not the recipient,
the guy who made/owned/possessed the seeds likely knows the history behind them better than the chap who received them ,
this is something i shouldnt even have to go into man , seriously ...

why add that bit of bullshit on the end of your statement about nevil stealing seeds ,
no one here has said that ...

also herbs contact says several colombians were used in the making of haze ,(since he was one of the guys involved i guess he knows)
sam verified it , that is the same story , so yea those truths ,
you know first hand accounts from the people who were there ,
witnesses ,
that stuff counts to some of us , obviously not you based on a few debates we have had ,
this one , opaiated thai sticks , and perennial cannabis for instance ,
and now you dont believe what sam says about seeds he sold ,
can u even think there could have been thousands of seeds from back in 69 or 67 ,
sam has said the haze brothers didnt make many and never sold any ,
so how would those seeds be around??

the only large amount of haze seed comes from ones sam made ,
and that wasnt till 76 , as he has said ,

at least im taking both stories into account and making a logical conclusion on what i believed based on that ,
you are not even taking sams story into consideration, which is a bit silly given he is the source of the seed to begin with ..

1 thing thas has been done through the years, especialy the early years of canna scene with famous strains is guard/hoard them.
there has always been famous clones seeds guarded worldwide like with Chemdog cuts, kush cuts , Haze cuts etc etc , even in London we had Haze cuts that were not allowed to be handed out , so maybe Sam denies the storys of selling seeds from USA because that was breaking and agreement with whoever he got the original seeds / strains from.

 

[ojd]

im glad for the work he did for sure ,
ive enjoyed many a haze, skunk , nl hybrid over the years ,

nevil gets my thumbs up for his selections and getting those seeds out among the growers ,
im sure the cannabis world would not be quite the same without that ...

Finaly some praise from donald to Nevil.

Yes donald
The Canna scene would not be anywhere near as advaced as we are now without Nevil ( RIP).
Nevil created many a seedmaker/breeder over the years with his huge catalouge and big balls to be posting seeds worldwide in the late 80's.

 

[ojd]

I think the history of the dates is simpler: they weren't really 1969 seeds(or 1967,1968) but rather it was a cataloging system, it's from original 1969 stock, etc., I also catalog some of my stuff that way (rb 2019, rb 2020, etc.)...
One last thing: over the years I have given many seeds, I have never given a single seed of the original stock, unless you want to get rid of the line no breeder will ever sell original stock (or mother / father plants)

People do desperate things when money is needed , especially when your in another country.

Again the theory that sam didnt know exactly what was what, and Nevil got lucky ?.

Also at least a million seeds of Haze sk1( probaly more like 5 million) were made , where is the famous selections from those , Nevil had many strains so far less numbers of each strain were made than O Haze Sk1 or Sk1 O Haze but still the many selections and famous strains Nevil produced was amazing( not just Haze , Nevil made many a strain famous worldwide)

 

[willydread]

I try to see things in the simplest way, because it is often the truest ... Sam had no idea what they were? I don't think so, he knew it well ...He probably had no idea what happened ....
Lucky Nevil? Of course, but just as surely he was a good breeder and a good seller ... there is no denying ...Nevil haze and Nl5hz were, are and will be the hybrids that I love the most, there is no year that at least one does not grow ...
Anyone here who has known me for a while knows that I'm not a Sam fan, far from it, but I have to admit that much of this thing (Sam Vs Nevil has been magnified, over the top, by the respective fanboys ....
In my opinion they are like two cannabis rock stars, and whatever you say about one, you will surely irritate the fans of the other, and energize this eternal fight ....


​​​

 

[willydread]

ojd Ps sorry but I could not write it in my previous post, great list of delicious things!

 

[@hempy]

Anyone here who has known me for a while knows that I'm not a Sam fan, far from it, but I have to admit that much of this thing (Sam Vs Nevil has been magnified, over the top, by the respective fanboys ....
In my opinion they are like two cannabis rock stars, and whatever you say about one, you will surely irritate the fans of the other, and energize this eternal fight ....

Willy there is 2 sides to this story the problem lye's with people who were not involved calling Nevil a lier or suggesting Nevil's version of the events are wrong and it is not okay to claim Nevil's version of the seed he got is incorrect.

There is Sam's version and there is Nevil's version end of story.

 

[Donald Mallard]

hahah of course it is ok ,
there can be only 1 truth hempy ...


you dont have to project your victim mentality over to nevil man ,
he could easily stand up for himself ,

but there is no way he could know what year those seeds came from ,
what willy suggested as labeling is more likely true than anything else ,
the supplier , who know his seeds , denies supplying seeds from before his time ,

go read through the questions for sam about haze thread again and you will see what he says ,
the man knows what he had , he might be a toker , but from what ive been able to tell his memory works fine ,
only you doubt it , very few others ...

 

[ojd]

hahah of course it is ok ,
there can be only 1 truth hempy ...


you dont have to project your victim mentality over to nevil man ,
he could easily stand up for himself ,

but there is no way he could know what year those seeds came from ,
what willy suggested as labeling is more likely true than anything else ,
the supplier , who know his seeds , denies supplying seeds from before his time ,

go read through the questions for sam about haze thread again and you will see what he says ,
the man knows what he had , he might be a toker , but from what ive been able to tell his memory works fine ,
only you doubt it , very few others ...

Many other people doubt it donald , not everything sam has done as Sam is a smart man and done some amazing things in our scene, but donald if you really know this industry then you know alot of people hold thier tongue as some powerfull people in our industry and alot of brown nosers for sure.

 

[@hempy]

hahah of course it is ok ,
there can be only 1 truth hempy ...


you dont have to project your victim mentality over to nevil man ,
he could easily stand up for himself ,

but there is no way he could know what year those seeds came from ,
what willy suggested as labeling is more likely true than anything else ,
the supplier , who know his seeds , denies supplying seeds from before his time ,

go read through the questions for sam about haze thread again and you will see what he says ,
the man knows what he had , he might be a toker , but from what ive been able to tell his memory works fine ,
only you doubt it , very few others ...

What is wrong with you mate why not just drop it and accept that there is Sam's version and there is Nevil's version and move on.

What i find odd is the big holes in the Sam haze story now as a result of bigherbs article and this seams to not bother you or the others attacking Nevil so tell us Donald how can the Haze be both a 3 way Colombian hybrid and a pure Colombian ?.

Dark touches on some valid point.

See im suprised no one saw this...this artcle has been out nearly 10 years....so the guys say a suffer kid got some seed and saw dollars signs.....he must of had amazing forsight to know his bag seed that tons of people had was worth money and that it would become this haze strain....more like they already knew the seeds were special....next thing yeah big herb says punto rojo bag seed...but the fact is they wernt even sure if it was Columbian gold or punto roja...and I can show you that in their own words....sam isnt silly enough after getting those seeds later to say they are punto rojo or columbian gold...as a guy with some experience he knows its a hybrid and as a educated guess says a hybrid of lumbos...but to me directly he admitted no one knows for sure....anyway these guys do a single pollen chuck they say in 69/70 and created a huge huge bag of seeds...and say this is the seed they used for the next ten years......so can you tell me why they slip up and the truth comes out and they say " the best plants were volunteers from the previous years seed droppings....oh sam also pulled out seeds from the 76 batch....I can also show you were you see in 80/81 that crop failed to produce were its said by those guys and sam it failed to produce due to being inbred....
So why would someone say they made a huge batch of seed in 69/70....wen its clear they used something from somewere once and then caried on their own line from this.

so 80/81 this crop fails to produce....huge bag of seeds from 69/70......sam make a list in 80/81 with 4 different haze types pluss burning bush, new years haze and guess what...brians haze is on there too....sam was pretty adamant the haze crew never had no seeds left...linked them up a whole leep of skunk seed in 80/81 too..nice trade......then you get a ibl 76 haze line thats already been inbred 7 years....im surprised after 4 inbreeding sams didnt mess up exactly like the haze crews did in 80/81...oh thats probably due to the thai, and kerlan and maybe mexican blood open pollinated into large amounts of haze in Holland....should keep it sweet....oh you can also find old pictures of quite afew completely different looking haze plants ...all in 80/81....dont see them no more...you only see sams plant that looks much like the 76 plant.....but he did grow them...remember he made a list in 80/81...
If I had the 76 line as it is now I would want to get hold of hazeC too and want too know if its still accessible...as I was already asked.

 

[willydread]

Only Sam and Nevil know the truth ... we advance by theories ....
And I repeat myself, because I want to be clear, Nevil was a breeder of a higher level, and you see that from the one he created (aptly named King of cannabis), and anyone here knows how much I love certain of his crosses, but he was still a human being. , with flaws like any of us ...
I understand you want to defend your friendship, and I honestly appreciate that, but I rest of my idea ...
If I now said that Sam lied no one (apart from Sam, rightly so) would have to complain, but if I did the same thing with Nevil I would have an army of angry fanboys ....

 

[willydread]

I think that Sam (who has repeatedly said not to trust Nevil) gave Nevil "second best" seeds, perhaps for money, perhaps to screw him, I don't know, naively ignoring Nevil's talent ... Simple, isn't it?

 

[JohnnyChicago]

I think it would of thrown out some magic Johnny imagine if the 2 sides had worked towards a single goal and then throw in the Haze heads growing these seeds working as a giant co op of growers.

It's happening with 25 years delay unfortunately. At a completely other level, of course.
And getting the Haze grown by the people, is what has made the difference.
But we risk to do the same mistakes of the past too.

Interesting talk of the crossing the famous Hazes with what’s available . What is still possible today ? . I know Johnny and Mac have been busy at it

Ive wondered can we confirm if the HzC is still alive , I’m not talking about shanti facility. I’m curious if it’s held in S. Holland by Bonk or crew Can Karma or Uncle Yosemite confirm this ?

Love and Respect to all the Haze heads for sharing information and spreading preserving genetics

1luvbigherb

What's possible will depend on your goals. Mine is to preserve the Haze as well as possible.

Crossing the best of the pure Haze lines to each other, is a great way to improve it and safe the genes. But then you will need to stabilize it again, as it won't breed true anymore, which is the main quality of OH. And that's a lot of work. Not the easiest too. Requires some solid experience with Haze and knowledge about it too. And you may end with something worse then the pure line you did start with. But almost everybody can try it, thank to our sharing of the lines.

And there is obviously the Nevils route, where 66,66% of the work has been done by Nevil already. (and by the people who have preserved his cuts for decades.)
Take the A5 cut, use 10 OH males, progeny test them, keep the best one.
Do the same with C5, by using and progeny testing the same 10 males.
And some of that magic that has made the Haze famous will be restored.

There are a lot of possibilities actually.

 

[ojd]

Neither Nevil or Sam are saints and both have flaws like any of us.

Storys were told on both sides thas for sure and invested interest , loyaltys , credit , etc etc caused these things and i only get heated and even post in this thread when Nevils name is repeatedly pulled through the mud .

There is a much bigger Sam fan club who dare to post , so i feel i need to speak up for the other side every now and then.

I love Haze , every Haze wether OHaze , O Haze sk1 , Nevil Haze , NL5 Haze etc etc , any Heavy leaning Haze so thats what bring me to these threads.

i invite every Haze lover entering or not to the icmag420 cup to taste some of Nevil's last offerings( even if not judging) , so if you love Haze and are a real Haze Connoisseur try and plan to come to europe for the 420 cup weekend if possible.