TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Wat was you trying to grow EB....Hempy sent you 100's of seeds...thats very nice of you Hempy...bummer they never worked out tho...but still a very nice gesture.
The Haze discussion thread
- Thread starter @hempy
- Start date
- Status
Wat was you trying to grow EB....Hempy sent you 100's of seeds...thats very nice of you Hempy...bummer they never worked out tho...but still a very nice gesture.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Are they the seed you lied to me about to get and then traded them with people all over the world who told you they were not getting great germination with get a grip i don't believe a thing you say.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
I dont grow clones other people select from F1s i grow and select my own that is variation.
the old nl5 x haze first version would throw a few nanas late in flo was never an issue maybe 1 or 2 seeds cant think of any others tho solid line overall ,logic suggests the odds gonna be higher in an unatural indoor enviroment for any line to herm so maybe indoor to outdoor experiances could be seperated for comparison
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Hi harvestreaper hidden hermaphrodite issues can be triggered by set stress triggers that seam to be a genetic memory .
@Hempy all of the none sense you just posted is Bro Science. Growing large lots at a time is always the best way to select plants to breed with. You can do the same in smaller lots keeping the best plants as you go. It def takes longer to get to the finish line going that route..
There's no way you could determine with any certainty from a 10-20 seed grow that a line wont show intersex issues lol. I can guarantee people reading this are all shaking there heads at your posts as of late. When you fall of the rails boy do you end up way off the track.
There's no way you could determine with any certainty from a 10-20 seed grow that a line wont show intersex issues lol. I can guarantee people reading this are all shaking there heads at your posts as of late. When you fall of the rails boy do you end up way off the track.
I have been thinking about replying more to this thread but usually the kind of reply I have in mind will be met by someone thinking that it is an attack on his person and not the statements made from narrow real world experience and anecdotal evidence like reading other anonymous posts or relaying private conversations with famous breeders in open forums. Please don't take this as an attack on you Mr thread-starter, it's the things you say not your person that I am disagreeing with. It just doesn't line up with my own first hand experience in most cases.
Mango Haze, Super Silver Haze, Nevil's Haze et-al are not true F1 hybrids so the simplified models that are often used to describe or predict what seeds made from those types would end up expressing falls short. How can those above mentioned hybrids be true F1 hybrids? The Haze is allegedly made from multiple NLD varieties which means that they are not made from two stable parental lines hence they cannot produce true F1 hybrids. If those two haze males talked about in this thread are not true P1s, they are not pure F1s either in the strictest sense and meaning of that terminology. If the two haze males are neither P1 nor F1 how can they produce true F1s? It is more complicated that that and therefore the simplified “logic” of F1, F2, F3 etc. cannot be applied with any certainty.
This is not a knock on anyone this is just trying to see it for what it is. I have grown and smoked NL5 x Haze, Super Silver Haze and Nevil's Haze from the 90s and onwards. I like the hybrids, I like the smoke. But if you think they are true F1 hybrids then I can't agree. If we discard weather or not some of those old legendary varieties were made with the HzA or HzC or both males incorporated, I think we can all agree that they were made with NL5 and Skunk#1 added. This cannot make a true F1 hybrid, it is already further down the filial generations and the results will not be so black and white.
Clearly you have not been to Thailand or any of the neighboring regions to see the type of NLD plants that grows here. Yes. I live here, I have seen a lot of them and your statements on these type of plants and their hermaphroditic expressions are just not true.
Also can I ask why it is not ok to have another opinion on Nevil and Shantibaba but it is ok for you to have opinions on Serious Seeds offerings and quality? Why are you speaking on behalf of some famous people in the cannabis world? Why are you constantly referring to private conversations with some of them? Why are you making statements on Greenhouse and what they have and not? Yet no one can have their opinion on Nevils seeds? Wouldn't it be more fun if we could all just add our own experience and have a discussion about this plant we all love rather than resorting to some kind of identity politics? We don't have to hate each other. I think listening to another opinion that one doesn't agree with, without instantly attacking it, is a higher form of intelligence than to just oppose it as it is not agreeing with oneself.
Mango Haze, Super Silver Haze, Nevil's Haze et-al are not true F1 hybrids so the simplified models that are often used to describe or predict what seeds made from those types would end up expressing falls short. How can those above mentioned hybrids be true F1 hybrids? The Haze is allegedly made from multiple NLD varieties which means that they are not made from two stable parental lines hence they cannot produce true F1 hybrids. If those two haze males talked about in this thread are not true P1s, they are not pure F1s either in the strictest sense and meaning of that terminology. If the two haze males are neither P1 nor F1 how can they produce true F1s? It is more complicated that that and therefore the simplified “logic” of F1, F2, F3 etc. cannot be applied with any certainty.
This is not a knock on anyone this is just trying to see it for what it is. I have grown and smoked NL5 x Haze, Super Silver Haze and Nevil's Haze from the 90s and onwards. I like the hybrids, I like the smoke. But if you think they are true F1 hybrids then I can't agree. If we discard weather or not some of those old legendary varieties were made with the HzA or HzC or both males incorporated, I think we can all agree that they were made with NL5 and Skunk#1 added. This cannot make a true F1 hybrid, it is already further down the filial generations and the results will not be so black and white.
Clearly you have not been to Thailand or any of the neighboring regions to see the type of NLD plants that grows here. Yes. I live here, I have seen a lot of them and your statements on these type of plants and their hermaphroditic expressions are just not true.
Also can I ask why it is not ok to have another opinion on Nevil and Shantibaba but it is ok for you to have opinions on Serious Seeds offerings and quality? Why are you speaking on behalf of some famous people in the cannabis world? Why are you constantly referring to private conversations with some of them? Why are you making statements on Greenhouse and what they have and not? Yet no one can have their opinion on Nevils seeds? Wouldn't it be more fun if we could all just add our own experience and have a discussion about this plant we all love rather than resorting to some kind of identity politics? We don't have to hate each other. I think listening to another opinion that one doesn't agree with, without instantly attacking it, is a higher form of intelligence than to just oppose it as it is not agreeing with oneself.
Last edited:
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Selection and working with the very best genetics plays the largest roll in finding quality plants in lesser numbers.
Nevil found 2 keepers in less than 10 hybrid plants that produce some of the best hybrids in the world so going by your argument that is bull shit.
Its not my fault i was smart and got what i thought were some of the very best F1s on the market at the right time.By doing so i enhanced my chances of finding special plants and i did just that and have lots more f1s to select threw.
I don't call that Bro science i call that being smart.
lots of growers out there got F1s and found quality plants i am not alone in the way i think.
You grow poly hybrids others grow f2s f3s and so on the chances of finding keepers there are less and that is were luck and growing out lots of seed is needed to find a keeper very different to a quality F1.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Clearly this is to me so lets start by pointing out that having an [FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]opinion on Nevil or shantibabas work is Fine but personally attacking the same people is not.How is a personal attack on people you know little about be justified in a forum or thread were the topic is cannabis ?. [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, sans-serif]We call them F1s because they are the result of 2 unrelated parent lines i didn't come up with the term F1s others did.[/FONT]
No i haven't been to Thailand but people i know have but i have grown pure Thai cannabis for 4 decades so i have an understanding of what Thai cannabis grows and smokes like.
Ow i was close to Nevil spoke to him Daily i have also met Shanti a few times also.
yea that was just the canna ,
but i did grow lots of fruit and veg too , i think its a good way to enhance your growing skills if u grow all plants not just cannabis ,
and u get to eat also ,, lol ..
currently i grow lots of herbs and veges and fruit also ..
i used to like c99 cause of the pineapple flavor ,
and the high was good too ,
but it didnt have enough legs ,
we made another using it and stuff a mate made ,
z99 , i really like that stuff darkie , it still gets grown and enjoyed by many ...
i was a bit partial to the old mango haze too ,
aussies all likened it to the some of the sativa that was common here back in the day , made them all nostalgic...
C
Capra ibex
You are in over your head hempy.... the sooner you realize that the sooner you can understand what these guys are TRYING to teach you.
I don't know ANY of these people personally and my scientific knowledge of plant genetics is very, very basic but it is clear, even to me, that you are the one, over and over who refuses to concede.... it's an ego thing.
Some of the things you reject- even i understand, but you won't let them go.
Your perception of your level of understanding is askew.
Don't take that as criticism, or if you do, at least take it as constructive criticism.... i think you can learn more than you would believe from some of the contributors in the thread, if you just put your ego and pre conceived notions to the side a little more.
I don't know ANY of these people personally and my scientific knowledge of plant genetics is very, very basic but it is clear, even to me, that you are the one, over and over who refuses to concede.... it's an ego thing.
Some of the things you reject- even i understand, but you won't let them go.
Your perception of your level of understanding is askew.
Don't take that as criticism, or if you do, at least take it as constructive criticism.... i think you can learn more than you would believe from some of the contributors in the thread, if you just put your ego and pre conceived notions to the side a little more.
Yes it was directed towards you sir.
Yes I know “we” call them F1, F2 etc. I am well aware of the terminology I was just pointing out that making assumptions based on a simplified perspective of genetics will not always land in a 100% accurate view of the matter.
How can haze crossed to NL5 and then another line with haze crossed to Skunk#1 be two unrelated parental lines? Even if both the A and C males were used clearly the two lines are not totally unrelated right? True F1 hybrids needs two unrelated, not just two differently named varieties as parents.
I understand that you have an understanding of Thai cannabis but you made some pretty generalized assumptions based on that limited experience. I have not seen all cannabis in this region, far from it, but I have seen a lot, grown some of that and smoked much more. All Thai varieties, grown in Thailand or Laos or any of the other countries, they are not all the same. There's quite some variation in quality and in the type of effects though we would call all of them NLD or south east asians. Growing a few of the types, even over decades, won't give you the total picture of all Thais but I am nitpicking. My point is that there might be a lot of expressions you have not seen even if you have grown some of them.
I don't think people are attacking your friends when they are not agreeing with your opinion on what they said or did. It's quite common in the cannabis online world for people to speak in absolute terms and to make broad assumptions on what other people said. Like I said before I think it would be much more interesting to hear the first hand experiences people had rather than second hand information on what others may or may not have done/said. But that is just my opinion on the matter which I stated.
What regions did the Thais you grew or still grow come from? There's a lot of differences between the regions even within this country. Did they come in seeded flowers or did they come directly from a seed maker/grower here in Thailand? A lot of people got their seeds via imports not from going to the actual maker of the seeds. I know for a fact that it can be very hard in this area to get any real information regarding where things came from and how they were made. Not only due to the language barrier but a lot of it has to do with that. Names like Highland, Lowland, Chocolate or Lemon added in front of the Thai in the different varieties are often if not always put there by non thai people.
Yes I know “we” call them F1, F2 etc. I am well aware of the terminology I was just pointing out that making assumptions based on a simplified perspective of genetics will not always land in a 100% accurate view of the matter.
How can haze crossed to NL5 and then another line with haze crossed to Skunk#1 be two unrelated parental lines? Even if both the A and C males were used clearly the two lines are not totally unrelated right? True F1 hybrids needs two unrelated, not just two differently named varieties as parents.
I understand that you have an understanding of Thai cannabis but you made some pretty generalized assumptions based on that limited experience. I have not seen all cannabis in this region, far from it, but I have seen a lot, grown some of that and smoked much more. All Thai varieties, grown in Thailand or Laos or any of the other countries, they are not all the same. There's quite some variation in quality and in the type of effects though we would call all of them NLD or south east asians. Growing a few of the types, even over decades, won't give you the total picture of all Thais but I am nitpicking. My point is that there might be a lot of expressions you have not seen even if you have grown some of them.
I don't think people are attacking your friends when they are not agreeing with your opinion on what they said or did. It's quite common in the cannabis online world for people to speak in absolute terms and to make broad assumptions on what other people said. Like I said before I think it would be much more interesting to hear the first hand experiences people had rather than second hand information on what others may or may not have done/said. But that is just my opinion on the matter which I stated.
What regions did the Thais you grew or still grow come from? There's a lot of differences between the regions even within this country. Did they come in seeded flowers or did they come directly from a seed maker/grower here in Thailand? A lot of people got their seeds via imports not from going to the actual maker of the seeds. I know for a fact that it can be very hard in this area to get any real information regarding where things came from and how they were made. Not only due to the language barrier but a lot of it has to do with that. Names like Highland, Lowland, Chocolate or Lemon added in front of the Thai in the different varieties are often if not always put there by non thai people.
Last edited:
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
So attacking Nevil and shanti is okay posting my experiences and what i have seen in over 4 decades is not and going by some out right wrong and how dare i post that.
I was in over my head as soon as i started this thread all i have done is defend my self and Nevil and others clearly a stupid move on my part to think people would discuss haze and not lower them self's to personal attacks my bad.
C
Capra ibex
You are doing it again.... i didn't say you know nothing or have nothing of value to say.... i could care less what is said about Nevil or Shanti, i don't/ didn't know either of them.
I'm strictly talking about understanding genetics, personal relationships are irrelevant.
I'm strictly talking about understanding genetics, personal relationships are irrelevant.
i didnt find too many , most was pretty solid ,
but a lot of the afghan haze hermied on me , (winter spring run )
i did keep one that i liked , it reveged in the patch on its own as the day lengths increased ,
and on the second run i didnt notice any hermies ,
i do recall shanti banging on about them being sexually mature before flower should prevent any hermie issues ,
might have been something to that as it sure worked on the afghan haze ..
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Can you give some examples of what you consider to be f1....also I dont get how nl is related to haze...ones a afghani indica supposedly with a touch of Hawaiian tho I heard of it being based on some plant called clay on sticks over 30 years back...an the other haze A for example may be made up of a couple of different sativas...so ?
yes of course using the best genetics increases your chances of finding keepers doh ,
it still takes numbers to find exceptional plants ,
did nevil find the best there was to find in those 10 seeds ??
how do you know there wasnt better , im sure if he grew more he would find something else , he worked with what he had but i doubt he would have passed up growing more to find better ,
and im 100 % sure he would agree ,
he knew growing more plants increased his chances of finding keepers , he said it himself and did it in practice ,
how is it you dont realize this hempy ??
you never answered my question ,
if numbers dont make any difference , how is it you didnt find another queeny yet ??
should only have to grow 10 seeds and poof , there she will be ... right??
why are folks only finding keepers in the odd pack of seeds if numbers dont matter??
if numbers dont matter wouldnt a 20 pack be full of keepers ??
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
I was not making assumptions Stocktont F1s is what Nevil and shantibaba label the seeds as do many breeders in the industry not me.
NL5 x Hz is a F1 going by the Breeders description now if the parents are unrelated then going by them its a F1 so how is a Nl5Hz related to a SkHz apart from the haze ancestry ?.
I have smoked a lot of Thai lines and yes they were not all what i would call good but why would any one grow any sativas that was not Good ?. The quality of imported Thai went bad in the mid 80s .
The Thais i have grown have come from imported Thai or from people that ether collected the seed from with in Thailand or from imported Thai also.
Most were high land Thais wider leaf closer looking to a Colombian type leaf to the thin leaf shapes you see in African sats or what is being grown in Cambodia these days.The high Land Thais also dry brown and are what the Americans call chock Thai.
The low land Thai with the thinner leaf dry green cure grown and have from what i have seen a more trippy electric high.
You had Red Thai Purple Thai also.
No they have clearly attacking Nevil and Shanti there are 100s of posts to show that to be factual.Maybe you should read them all before assuming they have not.
- Status
