The Haze discussion thread
- Thread starter @hempy
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You talk a lot about things Hempy, but you don't necessarily learn.
I ran into that post while looking for info from Nev to help another member on the reversed males thing.
Thought it was one of his better posts that people would benefit from seeing, and it amused me that he felt the same about sharing info about breeding with some people that I do about sharing it with you.
Nevil has multiple posts contradicting your ideas about males in his posts over at your old home.
Why don't you post over there anymore Hempy?
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Passionate individuals are and most top breeders are not particularly well educated. I've been hanging around breeders and clubs all my life and most of the advances in breeding I've seen have come from fanatics working with small populations.
Amen to that.
Amen to that.
you need to re read what sam posted ,
he as raho said was breeding with a specific goal in mind ,
which he reached ,
while the intense inbreeding caused by selfing several times was not viable commercially as u would like
the problem was fixed as he mentioned in his post by hybridizing at the last step
the final product was viable and the goal had been reached ,
what your doing is picking out one part of the journey ,
and not looking at the end ,
by selfing the goal was reached easier than it would have been any other way ,
yes there were problems as a result , they were fixed ,
the post clearly says that ...
its more a lack of comprehension on your part , misinterpreting the post to try and make it serve your bias of selfing as a breeding tool ... it in fact doesnt do that hempy if u read it fully and understand what is written ....
Many people think that those are either/or approaches to breeding and that you either like one or the other. But I see no contradiction between those positions Hempy.
They are 2 different approaches to breeding used for 2 completely different purposes/goals.
Personally, I can think of times when it would be appropriate to use 1:1 M/F breeding, selfing, 1:1 pollination with a reversed male, and open pollination.
Those techniques are all just tools in the toolbox to solve different challenges.
My favorite method is 1:1 m/f because of the challenge of identifying the best male. That seems to be a hallmark of all the best breeders and where weak breeders typically fail. Like [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]N[/FONT]evil said in that post: "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Good breeders are keen observers who are capable of recognising quality and trends within populations."[/FONT]
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Raho really what do you base this conclusion on ?
Nevil posted a lot of breeding information Raho but again most people ignored most of it like were Nevil says not to inbreed haze or haze hybrids as an example.
People also ignore Sam's advice on inbreeding haze most seam to think they know better.
I have read Nevil posts Raho and he dose not contradict my views at all good try.
Raho i left Mr nice because of trolls but you know this as many of them are your friends.Why don't you go post at Mrnice and stay out of my thread Raho ?.
I am still waiting on your answer on what a male dose apart from the 50% of the geans it contributes to the line.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
[B said:
You should re read it Donald because Sam says
All Cannabis is Heterozygous and will deteriorate as a Homozygous plant with lots of problems expressed. By selfing S4 or more you get closer to Homozygous and all the recessive problems are expressed.
Sam also says -
ability to restore the Vigor and delete or mask the recessive negative traits
Delete or Mask recessive negative traits Donald dose notmean fix.
Sam- We ended up with a great THCV mother clone with closer to 15% THCV with little other Cannabinoids
Dose that sound like an out come people growing cannabis want ?
This is the part you and others need to read and re read until it sinks in.
Sam -By S4 the plants are seriously screwed up and many are functionally sterile, also poor yields, no pest and disease resistance.
dont ignore this part at the end ,
come on its not a large paragraph ,
sams goal was what your saying is a fault ,
he successfully made a high thcv variety ,
who said anything about anyone growing it or it being released for commercial use/production , it was an experiment ,,
this is the end which you are overlooking because it doesnt fit in with your bias ..
we combined the best of each of the 4 lines and restored the full F1 vigor found in F1 hybrids. A bit of work but it did work very well. As long as the 4 combined lines are unrelated. We ended up with a great THCV mother clone with closer to 15% THCV with little other Cannabinoids, and high yielding with great pest and disease resistance, and vigor.
come on its not a large paragraph ,
sams goal was what your saying is a fault ,
he successfully made a high thcv variety ,
who said anything about anyone growing it or it being released for commercial use/production , it was an experiment ,,
this is the end which you are overlooking because it doesnt fit in with your bias ..
we combined the best of each of the 4 lines and restored the full F1 vigor found in F1 hybrids. A bit of work but it did work very well. As long as the 4 combined lines are unrelated. We ended up with a great THCV mother clone with closer to 15% THCV with little other Cannabinoids, and high yielding with great pest and disease resistance, and vigor.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
I am not the one ignoring what Sam is saying in his post Donald.
Do you know what Role a male plant plays Donald apart from the 50% of the geans it contributes to the mating ?.
you miss the point totally by not taking in the whole paragraph and cherry picking parts that may back up your arguement on selfing being bad ,
its not bad , its a useful breeding tool and can be very successful for fixing traits in a limited amount of generations ,
problems can be fixed as sam mentions...
its not bad , its a useful breeding tool and can be very successful for fixing traits in a limited amount of generations ,
problems can be fixed as sam mentions...
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
I have not missed a thing Donald the key points are again as follows.
All Cannabis is Heterozygous and will deteriorate as a Homozygous plant with lots of problems expressed. By selfing S4 or more you get closer to Homozygous and all the recessive problems are expressed.
Sam also says -
ability to restore the Vigor and delete or mask the recessive negative traits
Delete or Mask recessive negative traits Donald dose not mean fix.
Sam- We ended up with a great THCV mother clone with closer to 15% THCV with little other Cannabinoids
Dose that sound like an out come people growing cannabis want ?
Sam -By S4 the plants are seriously screwed up and many are functionally sterile, also poor yields, no pest and disease resistance.
I am not the one cheering picking here.
So no one knows what a male contributes apart from the 50% of geans to a matting ?.
The 3 most highly priced lines from Mr Nice are Nevil`s haze , SSH and Mango Haze .
All 3 are Haze bred to Haze . Then there is the Fem MHz you bred from a herm Mango Hz you sent Nevil that he said was as good as the best Nevil`s Haze .
Haze hyb x Haze hyb then femmed . Is equal to the best Nevil`s haze . But just don`t do it ...
Many already know how good the end results can be with inbreeding. Discouraging its use It keeps others from figuring that out.
I prefer to read books and not anecdotal posts on a forum.
This might help you understand.
https://www.nature.com/scitable/top...its-by-offspring-follows-predictable-6524925/
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
What has inbreeding have to do with selfing cannabis Hammerhead ?.
Inbreeding Haze dose not improve it that is a fact.
I see no point having a discussion with questions like that. You would def benefit from reading a few books. Selfing is a extreme degree of inbreeding. Its obvious your very confused on this subject.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
HH how am i confused i read and research a lot but when i put a very simple question to you n the others on what dose a male contribute you cant answer so who here needs to do some reading ?.
You don't like what Sam posted about selfing i get it.
OK if you say so.. It wont matter how anyone answered your question. The right answer is gonna be what you want it to be lol. You don't know what selfing has to do with inbreeding ?. That speaks for itself.
Peace
HH
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