The Haze discussion thread

[@hempy]

The Swiss Thai Nevil used came from Reeferman

 

[Raco]

THOH P1 male



P1 female

 

[Hammerhead]

Again Raho How is a low yielding plant of any value to any commercial grower.



Raho and how is producing plants that have no ability to deal with environmental changes or pests advancing cannabis in any way.

A male contributes half the gean pool of that strain so by selfing only the female you have all ready lost Half of its ancestors. More importantly the male contributes a lot more than half the genetics.


By s4 the plants are seriously screwed up and many are functionally sterile dose that sound like a positive to you Raho.

Mask the recessive negative traitsis not fixing things and if you delete them what else is deleted a long with the recessive negative traits ?.

A male contributes 50% of the geansbut it also plays a important role in keeping the next generation healthy do you know what that is Raho.

Depends on what other traits a low yielding pheno has. Yield is not a deal breaker deciding what to keep for me. Quality is everything..

 

[@hempy]

Depends on what other traits a low yielding pheno has. Yield is not a deal breaker deciding what to keep for me. Quality is everything..

Well if a s1 plant yields less than 1/2 an oz dry but before it was selfed it yielded 4 or 8 oz dry one would see that as a huge negative alone.

But were talking yield / sterility / and a lot more.

Reversing a male to see what he will bring across when your dealing with hybrids and poly-hybrids would be the logical approach forward no ?.

 

[Hammerhead]

I've never reversed a male to figure out my next move. I'm not aware of any that do that making there seeds. I do know a few that have reversed males for curiosity sake.

 

[Raco]

The Swiss Thai Nevil used came from Reeferman

DC x Highland Nepalese F1



Kaiki swapped some genetics with Reeferman many yrs ago...

DC x THOH -F2

 

[@hempy]

DC x Highland Nepalese F1

View Image

Kaiki swapped some genetics with Reeferman many yrs ago...

DC x THOH -F2

View Image

Hi Raco they both look like nice lines but the Nepalese looks real interesting.

Nevil liked Refeermans Swiss Thai

 

[@hempy]

I've never reversed a male to figure out my next move. I'm not aware of any that do that making there seeds. I do know a few that have reversed males for curiosity sake.

A reversed male gives you an understanding of the things it will carry across as a male.

When your breeding with a hybrid or poly-hybrid your aim is to select a set phino or stabilize set traits of a set phino with in the seed.

So if your female has a strong mango smell finding a male with the same smell when reversed brings you the mate your after with out creating a mutant mess.

 

[@hempy]

View Image
12 weeks to the day be interested to hear how much longer some of you hazexperts think she needs as im far better at smoking it than growing it lol

I go by look of the flower but also you can look at the plants nods at ( i think there called Calyx) will start to yellow that is the time you harvest.Me i always let them look ready and then go a week or two longer.

 

[harvestreaper]

I go by look of the flower but also you can look at the plants nods at ( i think there called Calyx) will start to yellow that is the time you harvest.Me i always let them look ready and then go a week or two longer.

thanks hempy i always used to go on 80 percent red hairs caveman style i guess lol yea i remember the when ya think its ready wait a week good advice to and that wiill brng this one up to a very ripe 14 weeks which thinking out loud an you guys imput is looking like the right time ,,,,another question to the group what is this phenomenon when the plant appears to reach a peak flouresence say 4 weeks before its ready as in terps are at an absolute peak and drop considerably by the time of harvest is this simply some fuck up ive made or something else? as ive seen it in a few diffrent scenarios with diffrent strains

 

[harvestreaper]

might have just realised what it is ,,,penny just dropped only seen it in hybrids so logic suggests its very mixed terps ripening to a peak at diffrent phases of flo ,,,doh lol

 

[Donald Mallard]

Monkey Haze F2 resin

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=36869&pictureid=2024202View Image

I´d love to hear your opnion...and everyones else ..of course

The source

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=36869&pictureid=2024201View Image


PS: I know I´ve had several questions unanswered...sry about that...I´ll do when I have the time

such nice clean resin there raco ,
good form man , big thumbs up ...

 

[Raho]

Again Raho How is a low yielding plant of any value to any commercial grower Raho and how is producing plants that have no ability to deal with environmental changes or pests advancing cannabis in any way.

A male contributes half the gean pool of that strain so by selfing only the female you have all ready lost Half of its ancestors. More importantly the male contributes a lot more than half the genetics.

By s4 the plants are seriously screwed up and many are functionally sterile dose that sound like a positive to you Raho.

Mask the recessive negative traits is not fixing things and if you delete them what else is deleted a long with the recessive negative traits ?.

A male contributes 50% of the geans but it also plays a important role in keeping the next generation healthy do you know what that is Raho.

None of my original post was addressed to you Hempy, and I refuse to make it my job to teach you the basics of genetics and breeding. You are just too obstinate a student to make it worth my time.
If you were able to learn new concepts from others easily, this thread would be completely different than what it is.

My point to Sam was to get him to clarify/confirm that it was not the practice of selfing that led to the emergence of negative traits. Those traits existed in the genetics before selfing began (obviously), and would have been exposed just as easily through traditional breeding towards the same goal if a suitable male could be found. I hoped to get him to confirm the obvious, that his use of selfing worked exactly as he desired to accelerate the isolation of a specific trait. Because of that, the project was a success.
I took it one step further to point out that the exact same method could be (and is) used to accelerate locking in other (desirable) traits.
Your response to all of this is:

I am content to let you continue to believe that.

 

[Hammerhead]

A reversed male gives you an understanding of the things it will carry across as a male.

When your breeding with a hybrid or poly-hybrid your aim is to select a set phino or stabilize set traits of a set phino with in the seed.

So if your female has a strong mango smell finding a male with the same smell when reversed brings you the mate your after with out creating a mutant mess.

Even if someone reversed males to pick from(which they don't) there's no guarantee he will pass those observable traits. IMO the only way to see what a male brings is to grow the progeny made. IMO reversing a male is a time wasting process.

 

[Guest]

Didn't nev reverse one of his haze males?

 

[Raho]

Even if someone reversed males to pick from(which they don't) there's no guarantee he will pass those observable traits. IMO the only way to see what a male brings is to grow the progeny made. IMO reversing a male is a time wasting process.

Hi Hammerhead.
I think Matt Riot says he reverses males (sometimes) to gather selection info.
Nev was the first guy I ever saw mention it when he appeared at MNS. He mentioned it several times. I believe he said he used Florel. Made a point of saying he didn't smoke the female flowers that were produced, just observed flower structure, resin production and terps. I got the impression it wasn't something he did all the time or anything. Just an experiment. That comment from Nev is probably where Hempy got the idea. I seriously doubt he has ever done it himself.


One of Nev's quotes on the topic:
https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/62957-post588.html

Yep, done that. I selfed the HazeC male. Theoretically their should be 25% YY. I was looking for them.
I got about 33% females and 66% males, no intersex. I progeny tested maybe 20 males, All produced normal male to female ratio's and no intersex. The seeds had normal viability, so I guessed that YY would block seed growing in the first place.

None of the HzC male selfed, came close to being as good as HzC for breeding.
N.

 

[Raho]

Some nice basic breeding info for Hempy from the man who is supposed to be the focus of this thread and his thoughts on discussing it with people who don't get it:


https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/81815-post354.html

Grade 9 Biology.
There are four main inheritance patterns observed in genetics.
1 Dominant Recessive
If even one copy of the dominant trait is present, it is expressed.
2 Intermediate Inheritance
Offspring express a trait midway between the two parents.
3 Multiple Allels
Three or four allels code for the same trait.
4 Polygenic Inheritance
Multiple different gene locations code for the same trait.

Most of the traits we are looking for like resin production, gland type yield etc are not a result of Dominant Recessive traits.
Good breeders are keen observers who are capable of recognising quality and trends within populations. Scientists are not responsible for most of the breeds of plants and animals. Passionate individuals are and most top breeders are not particularly well educated. I've been hanging around breeders and clubs all my life and most of the advances in breeding I've seen have come from fanatics working with small populations.
Over the years I've learned a few tricks that seem to tilt the odds a little more in my favour, but I'm not inclined to share these tricks as anything not found in text books will set me up for days of unproductive debate with pompous self styled scientists whose main contribution to discussion seems to be ridicule and derision, without offering to share their own practises and techniques.
N.

 

[@hempy]

None of my original post was addressed to you Hempy, and I refuse to make it my job to teach you the basics of genetics and breeding. You are just too obstinate a student to make it worth my time.
If you were able to learn new concepts from others easily, this thread would be completely different than what it is.

My point to Sam was to get him to clarify/confirm that it was not the practice of selfing that led to the emergence of negative traits. Those traits existed in the genetics before selfing began (obviously), and would have been exposed just as easily through traditional breeding towards the same goal if a suitable male could be found. I hoped to get him to confirm the obvious, that his use of selfing worked exactly as he desired to accelerate the isolation of a specific trait. Because of that, the project was a success.
I took it one step further to point out that the exact same method could be (and is) used to accelerate locking in other (desirable) traits.
Your response to all of this is:
View Image

I am content to let you continue to believe that.

Hi Raho i am open to new concepts but i am not into concepts that have negative outcomes.

-SamS[/b];8837877]

By S4 the plants are seriously screwed up and many are functionally sterile, also poor yields, no pest and disease resistance. We made many S3 or S4 seeds for selecting parents for our single Cannabinoid breeding work but we did have the ability to restore the Vigor and delete or mask the recessive negative traits with a method used for other crops. Any single Cannabinoid say for THCV, we used 4 landrace unrelated lines, in the case of THCV, Afghan, Thai, S African Durban, and Calif Orange that all had about 1% THCV. After selfing each line separately and selecting the progeney plants with the highest THCV values which by S3 or S4 yielded plants that were 5%-7% THCV but all inbred and all but useless except for the target Cannabinoid, we combined the best of each of the 4 lines and restored the full F1 vigor found in F1 hybrids. A bit of work but it did work very well. As long as the 4 combined lines are unrelated. We ended up with a great THCV mother clone with closer to 15% THCV with little other Cannabinoids, and high yielding with great pest and disease resistance, and vigor.
All Cannabis is Heterozygous and will deteriorate as a Homozygous plant with lots of problems expressed. By selfing S4 or more you get closer to Homozygous and all the recessive problems are expressed.
-SamS

Clearly you don't like what Sam posted Raho.

A male contributes 50% of the geans but it also plays a important role in keeping the next generation healthy do you know what that is Raho ?.


By s4 the plants are seriously screwed up and many are functionally sterile dose that sound like a positive to you Raho.

Mask the recessive negative traits is not fixing things and if you delete them what else is being deleted a long with the recessive negative traits you created by selfing ?.

 

[Hammerhead]

Hi Hammerhead.
I think Matt Riot says he reverses males (sometimes) to gather selection info.
Nev was the first guy I ever saw mention it when he appeared at MNS. He mentioned it several times. I believe he said he used Florel. Made a point of saying he didn't smoke the female flowers that were produced, just observed flower structure, resin production and terps. I got the impression it wasn't something he did all the time or anything. Just an experiment. That comment from Nev is probably where Hempy got the idea. I seriously doubt he has ever done it himself.


One of Nev's quotes on the topic:
https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/62957-post588.html

I've seen some do it for fun. No one I know does it to pick there males. Its def not commonly used endeavor.

 

[@hempy]

Some nice basic breeding info for Hempy from the man who is supposed to be the focus of this thread and his thoughts on discussing it with people who don't get it:


https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/81815-post354.html

I spent lots of time talking breeding and cannabis with Nevil Raho what was the point of this post apart from trying to insult and belittle me ?.

If you dont know the basics like what a male contributes or dose in the way of keeping a line heathy then i suggest you go research it .