zaprjaques
da boveda kid
i love myself some clearheaded smoke.
if i wanna be confused i stay sober haha
if i wanna be confused i stay sober haha
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Shiva Grows
- Thread starter shiva82
- Start date
shiva82
Well-known member
if i take a heirloom plant from source that would fall into the p1 category . if i make a repro, they would be p2 from source . but selected as a parent i would still class as a p1 . it is just initials to abbreviate to make notes with . i'm not an expert with the semantics of it all
zaprjaques
da boveda kid
damn it i think i left my headphones at work :[
zaprjaques
da boveda kid
yeah me neither. i thought i had an idea of it but apparently i dont haha
i get the filial f things the parental p things and the selfed s stuff.
but no idea how they combine on a more scientifical level. thanks for clearing that up for me.
edit:
i guess the polyhybrid stuff was never of interest to me before.
i can understand how to breed with filial lines and in 'feminized' form and how each generation should behave. and that the goal is to reach uniformity or some kind of predictibility in the outcome.
always thought that if you cross 2 hybrids the outcome would be far from uniform.
goingrey
Well-known member
Wikipedia page for F1 hybrids says:
In agronomy, the term F1 hybrid is usually reserved for agricultural cultivars derived from two-parent cultivars. These F1 hybrids are usually created by means of controlled pollination, sometimes by hand pollination. For annual plants such as tomato and maize, F1 hybrids must be produced each season.
For mass production of F1 hybrids with uniform phenotype, the parent plants must have predictable genetic effects on the offspring. Inbreeding and selection for uniformity for multiple generations ensures that the parent lines are almost homozygous. The divergence between the (two) parent lines promotes improved growth and yield characteristics in offspring through the phenomenon of heterosis ("hybrid vigour" or "combining ability").
But as you can see it is about parental lines. Whereas we are often using just two parent plants. And predictable results can be achieved with keeping the parents alive as clones. Not strictly necessary to have truebreeding seedstock for that purpose. Except when those parents are lost to a bust or whatever..
In agronomy, the term F1 hybrid is usually reserved for agricultural cultivars derived from two-parent cultivars. These F1 hybrids are usually created by means of controlled pollination, sometimes by hand pollination. For annual plants such as tomato and maize, F1 hybrids must be produced each season.
For mass production of F1 hybrids with uniform phenotype, the parent plants must have predictable genetic effects on the offspring. Inbreeding and selection for uniformity for multiple generations ensures that the parent lines are almost homozygous. The divergence between the (two) parent lines promotes improved growth and yield characteristics in offspring through the phenomenon of heterosis ("hybrid vigour" or "combining ability").
But as you can see it is about parental lines. Whereas we are often using just two parent plants. And predictable results can be achieved with keeping the parents alive as clones. Not strictly necessary to have truebreeding seedstock for that purpose. Except when those parents are lost to a bust or whatever..
shiva82
Well-known member
i just use my own senses and have fun. i'm not a breeder. i follow mendel https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/gregor-mendel-and-the-principles-of-inheritance-593/
shiva82
Well-known member
also. my goal is for good healthy seeds, so 'breeding' in the true sense is a waste of time for me. hybrids is more suited for myself
zaprjaques
da boveda kid
i see, so even with polyhybrids the parental polys should be 'stable'.
shiva82
Well-known member
what do you mean by stable? sexually? if selected from stable plants and so on then yeah. they will not be similar for a set of traits . they will be healthy hybrids , showing various phenotypes . so not genetically stable, but if selcted correct sexually stable as any other hybrid
great for pheno hunting new combinations
zaprjaques
da boveda kid
well i guess it wont hurt if i try it out.
revegeta666
Not ICMag Donor
No they usually aren't. Polyhybrids have a chance to come out looking like the mom, dad, grandpa or grandma
zaprjaques
da boveda kid
no not sexually, genetically.
like if for example i cross a poly called banana to a poly called ice cream and theyre both heavy on the banana and ice cream it probably wont result in banana icecream plants if they were just some selected phenos from each their line or would they?
zaprjaques
da boveda kid
ok so if i cross 2 polys the outcome could be poly1 grandma and poly2 dad combined in a nutshell or any of the other possibilities. but the seedlot would be like 'f1' stable?
revegeta666
Not ICMag Donor
Not stable as in predictable phenotypes really because according to the nomenclature, for a cross to be named F1, both parentals must be IBL (inbred lines). Polyhybrids crossed to polyhybrids make polypolyhybrids I guess
which is most of what comes from the US.
shiva82
Well-known member
they are possibly recessive traits , and would need to be recombined for that trait to be there. you just have to experiment and test yourself and see what the progeny bring to the table. if it improves on either parent then to me that is success
