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Pre-gaming for the 2015 Outdoor Season
- Thread starter Team Microbe
- Start date
I always get a little antsy whenever people use the sarcastic expression "yeah, and pigs can fly." Well actually...
But if I were you, I'd put my biggest plot at the top of the treeline on the right, in the little hook towards the top where the trees come out and form a little nook that is directly open to southern exposure. Plus it's pretty much the treeline at its furthest distance from the water.
But if I were you, I'd put my biggest plot at the top of the treeline on the right, in the little hook towards the top where the trees come out and form a little nook that is directly open to southern exposure. Plus it's pretty much the treeline at its furthest distance from the water.
Kygiacomo!!!
AppAlachiAn OutLaW
today it was 68f here and i went to the hills and got 3 holes dug..in one my new plots the first 2-3 inces of soil is great..its nice and black and just smells great..as i was digging and rounding my holes out i seen 2 little worms wiggling around in the dirt..i thought i had chopped it in half but i picked it up and it was a live earth worm..i gently picked him up and put him back down in the hole and put some grass,a few pieces of rotten wood in there..there was also some deer or rabbit shit there in the same area that i was digging and i put it down in the hole as well..just waiting on my kelp and alfalfa meal and im gonna take it on up on the hill on that plot and let them start working on it..really excited to have found this spot last year and even more excited that live earth worms are there already in that part of the hill..it will get full sun from 930am till 6 or 7 pm and then another 1.5 of ambient light when the sun starts going down
I like that location a lot man, I didn't even see that nook. So you're saying basically fill the nook with plants so it looks like a smooth tree line right? I just may do just that. Good eye
Nice brother!! Gettin an early start, I like it. Those worms are a great sign, you just may be able to use that native soil. Full sun, worms, good soil, great genetics, and persistence is the recipe for a great season.
The only thing I would stray from is putting native poop in the holes, maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong here but it can turn anaerobic and create disease causing organisms to spread in the soil. Rabbit shit is great I've heard, just make sure it's dry and has time to break down before planting. You would think if cow/horse/rabbit shit is safe to use then so would using deer shit...
What do you think man?
I like that location a lot man, I didn't even see that nook. So you're saying basically fill the nook with plants so it looks like a smooth tree line right? I just may do just that. Good eye
Pretty much, just try to keep with the shape of the existing treeline so it still looks natural. Filling it in to create a smooth treeline could very possibly look artificial from the vantage point of the flying piggies; it's very rare for things in nature to grow flush or in a line.
Kygiacomo!!!
AppAlachiAn OutLaW
it could have been rabbit shit..it was little round balls..i will remove all the stuff out that hole anyways though when i take my soil up there..FFOF and some extra kelp,alfalfa and Ewcs will go into this plot..i thought about diluting it with the soil from under the tree that i get mine from but im not gonna..i will also throw in about the top 2 inches of the toplayer of soil..its solid black and when u smell of it its just got a killer earthy smell to it..3 delas will go there and 2 BBHB and 1 jacky white..also it was dry bc when i touched it it was like dust it just broke up a bit..i will still remove it though bc i want the good shit in this plot..idk why i didnt ever find it before..i got my big pole trimmer im gonna trim back a few tree limbs that will get some extra sun in there..hoping to get a extra 30 or 45min of early morning sun..those extra 30-45 mins add up in terms of hours when u count from may1-end of sept..I like that location a lot man, I didn't even see that nook. So you're saying basically fill the nook with plants so it looks like a smooth tree line right? I just may do just that. Good eye
Nice brother!! Gettin an early start, I like it. Those worms are a great sign, you just may be able to use that native soil. Full sun, worms, good soil, great genetics, and persistence is the recipe for a great season.
The only thing I would stray from is putting native poop in the holes, maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong here but it can turn anaerobic and create disease causing organisms to spread in the soil. Rabbit shit is great I've heard, just make sure it's dry and has time to break down before planting. You would think if cow/horse/rabbit shit is safe to use then so would using deer shit...
What do you think man?
have u or anyone else ever tried the coyote piss to help keep litter critters away? i was reading on it and all the little pests that fk with me its their #1 predator..i will still use cages but im gonna try this and see if that will even keep them from digging around the cage at all incase the kelp gives off a funny smell..i will still take the kelp,alfalfa and ewc there about 4 weeks before i plant in it just to be safe
As far as critters and deer go, I don't piss around (pun absolutely intended); I just put chickenwire around the plants (zip-tied together at the top) until the plants are big enough for critters/deer not to really fuck with them.
Last year I even set up a perimeter with fishing line tied at every 12 inches or so around trees.
Last year I even set up a perimeter with fishing line tied at every 12 inches or so around trees.
Kygiacomo!!!
AppAlachiAn OutLaW
ya i never did the human piss thing..it dont work only thing that is 100% is a physical barrier which i will have,but a determined raccon if he smells something can dig up under it..ive never had much trouble with big animals except the time i used alaskan fish emulsion and they dug up under the cage to get into the soil where they thought something was dead..that was a long time ago though when i was first starting my guerilla growing days..
how soon can i start useing liquid sea weed(neptune harvest) ful- power and ful-humix on my plants? i want to start as soon as possible without hurting the little seedlings..want to get a massive root ball going this year before i take to the hills in 1st week of may..
Edit: i also have cytoplus from bioag as well which is just Tm-7 with sea weed extract in it..i called and got a free 8oz sample bottle of the ful-power and talked to the lady on the phone for a bit and she threw in the ful-humix(25 grams) and cytoplus(25 grams) as well to try out..
Nice man! Sounds like black gold to me...
I haven't tried coyote piss before but I've heard of that Zoo Poo I was telling you about working wonders... it's wolf scat they sell at any Zoo, it deters many animals for obvious reasons... the hard part is finding the stuff if you don't live near a Zoo. The coyote piss may work just as well... keep it a good ways away from your holes though so nothing leeches into your soil
Kygiacomo!!!
AppAlachiAn OutLaW
no zoo close to me but if i ever go i will try and collect some..they will prolly think im insane for asking for it lol ya i was not putting it anywhere close to my holes..i am gonna spray it on some trees..their nose's are very sensitive so should pick up from a long way..the raccoons are only thing i hope it works on..the other things like opposum,deer,rabbit and ground hogs aint shit compared to this mfers we got here..they are like some obsessed space alien fks but that was with the alaskan fish emulsion so hopefully the kelp isnt nothing like it..ive done planned everthing else out in preventative measures as u already know so i cant overlook this 1 little fact or it would fkk my whole grow up..i may be worrying to much but once i get the bottle of neptune harvest in and smell of it i will have a better ideal what it will smell like..i will use neptune here at the house to germ seeds and build my seedlings up..i will also get a better understanding of kelp once i get the actual kelp meal in from the mail.i will be use that to put in my holes..
Haha nah they sell it for that very purpose my man, people with animal problems near their property buy this stuff it comes in bags for a set price... Wolf scat straight up lol. I don't know where the hell I owuld find a zoo either so I don't blame ya
I don't think the fish smell from the kelp would do as much damage as you think it will, but doing what you're doing and trying it out on a handful of plants only as an experiment is a safe bet. That way you'll know for future ref.
GEMiNi GENETiCS
Active member
Nice looking spots bro .. but only a good scouting trip will tell .. ...truth
In the first map pic if you look at the river as forming an outline of a face I like the putter edge of the brown area near the nose/eye area (almost middle of the map).
Just as ShakiraLoba stated the tree line is the best bet with wetlands as a great barrier against kayakers. Just watch out not to be under the drip line of those trees due to higher potential for water(dew) to drip on plants during flower also watch out planting under Oak trees as species of moths will lay eggs in oak's and the larvae will spin silk down to your tasty plants.
The green areas you marked on the other maps look like a fen or wetland meadow type of conditions. Basically the water table will remain at soil level; is water will fill your shoe prints and early spring or heavy rains will bring a small stream to the surface that usually flows under ground during summer months...this is how my wetland meadow works at least ... I mark out the streams path in early spring after the snow melts using stick stuck in the ground so I can orient my plants around that to ensure adequate water throughout the summer.
As far as the blow up rafts ... I got one years ago for under $100 ... held 400lbs ....but the membrane was not that thick and could tear ... I'd look at using pond liner glued to the bottom and sides of the raft to prevent punctures... or just double/triple bag the bales and add air bladders to help with floatation...to drag behind your kayak but this can be tough to explain if someone happens upon you.... perhaps you can say you are training for a kayaking trip and the extra weight/drag is helping you build up strength for a more serious river....I use boot camp training as my excuse for duffle bag full of soil ... "I'm using soil in this duffle for endurence traing so if I get tired I can dump it out and not be littering."
PS: if your making swamp tubes this year .... try using organic natural burlap sacks from sandbaggy(dot) com with field fencing making the inner structure ... these are mobile so if seasonal flooding is an issue they can be picked up ... also makes it possible transport them out fully set up ... the burlap also breaks down in 6months.
In the first map pic if you look at the river as forming an outline of a face I like the putter edge of the brown area near the nose/eye area (almost middle of the map).
Just as ShakiraLoba stated the tree line is the best bet with wetlands as a great barrier against kayakers. Just watch out not to be under the drip line of those trees due to higher potential for water(dew) to drip on plants during flower also watch out planting under Oak trees as species of moths will lay eggs in oak's and the larvae will spin silk down to your tasty plants.
The green areas you marked on the other maps look like a fen or wetland meadow type of conditions. Basically the water table will remain at soil level; is water will fill your shoe prints and early spring or heavy rains will bring a small stream to the surface that usually flows under ground during summer months...this is how my wetland meadow works at least ... I mark out the streams path in early spring after the snow melts using stick stuck in the ground so I can orient my plants around that to ensure adequate water throughout the summer.
As far as the blow up rafts ... I got one years ago for under $100 ... held 400lbs ....but the membrane was not that thick and could tear ... I'd look at using pond liner glued to the bottom and sides of the raft to prevent punctures... or just double/triple bag the bales and add air bladders to help with floatation...to drag behind your kayak but this can be tough to explain if someone happens upon you.... perhaps you can say you are training for a kayaking trip and the extra weight/drag is helping you build up strength for a more serious river....I use boot camp training as my excuse for duffle bag full of soil ... "I'm using soil in this duffle for endurence traing so if I get tired I can dump it out and not be littering."
PS: if your making swamp tubes this year .... try using organic natural burlap sacks from sandbaggy(dot) com with field fencing making the inner structure ... these are mobile so if seasonal flooding is an issue they can be picked up ... also makes it possible transport them out fully set up ... the burlap also breaks down in 6months.
Ok you got my attention.
This will be my second year doing swamp/marsh grow. last year I used 5 gallon camo buckets with 1/2 inch holes all over the bottom. Worked great but it sucks to haul in all the soil and buckets. Then you have to haul 20 five gallon buckets out during hunting season. NOT FUN.
I was looking at grow bags this year because they are made to support themselves.
Burlap sounds nice but can the roots penetrate the bottom to get to the water table as it falls later in the season?
I take it to get the burlap bag to stand up the fencing must be around the bag?
I have my doubts for using this for my growing MO because now I have to have fencing large enough to hold 5 gallons and I generally just make the fencing 8-12 inches in diameter and 18 inches tall. Just enough to protect young plants. Never had many problems after the plant get 3 ft tall.
Last year I just put my fencing on top of the 5 gallon bucket to protect plants.
Can you elaborate on your burlap methodology?
Sounds good Gemini, I'll look for a treeline site that isn't under any drip spots. I'm wondering more and more if the spots along the stream aren't hidden well enough, but I'll know for sure when I get there on foot... well I guess raft in this case lol. The pond liner could very well work on the bottom of one of those blow up crafts, I'll keep that in mind when I get one. I'm leaning more towards a raft compared to a kayak for load sizes and transportation reasons. I'll be stranded if that thing pops though... so that'll be interesting if it actually happens.
As far as swamp tubes go, I've got a bunch of these landscape fabric-wrapped hog fences that are bottomless... I usually just plop em on the ground and fill em with soil - it sucks moisture up from the swamp below fairly well
They're not as mobile as burlap though, and I've been looking into something smaller like a 30 gal growbag that I can just set down in the wet marsh for water to wick up through the bottom holes...
Hey TM
thanks for the informative thread. I have been thinking about the burlap bags and your bottomless tubes.
Im having second thoughts because if you go back and look at two heads threads he uses totes and I used 5 gal buckets. They one thing they have in common is the side structure holds in the moisture unlike a burlap bag or you swamp tube.
Of course it depends on the type of swamp/marsh you are growing in. If you had them in standing water I would agree the burlap or swamp tupe is nice to keep the soil from being saturated with water. The breathable bags allow the top portion of the soil to have better evaporation.
My grow last year was on damp soil only. In the spring if you stomped your foot in the soil the indentation in the soil would fill with water but in the heat of the summer it was fairly moist but nothing like the spring. Look I'm just thinking out loud here but I'm thinking in this marsh vs swamp type environment it may not be good to have breathable containers for a couple of reasons.
The first is of course you want the moisture retention in the heat of the summer and dry fall. Second I use slow release ferts mixed evenly through out the soil and if the soil is dry the ferts are not released. I'm guessing but even with a totally organic soil its not fertile if its not moist. Especially if you are top dressing in the fall.
The site that gemini recommended for the burlap also had bags made out of other plastics that would help with moisture retention. I need to do more research on grow bags in general.
Something to ponder over would love to hear from yourself TM on the organics side and anyone else who has some experience with swamp and marsh grows.
PEACE
thanks for the informative thread. I have been thinking about the burlap bags and your bottomless tubes.
Im having second thoughts because if you go back and look at two heads threads he uses totes and I used 5 gal buckets. They one thing they have in common is the side structure holds in the moisture unlike a burlap bag or you swamp tube.
Of course it depends on the type of swamp/marsh you are growing in. If you had them in standing water I would agree the burlap or swamp tupe is nice to keep the soil from being saturated with water. The breathable bags allow the top portion of the soil to have better evaporation.
My grow last year was on damp soil only. In the spring if you stomped your foot in the soil the indentation in the soil would fill with water but in the heat of the summer it was fairly moist but nothing like the spring. Look I'm just thinking out loud here but I'm thinking in this marsh vs swamp type environment it may not be good to have breathable containers for a couple of reasons.
The first is of course you want the moisture retention in the heat of the summer and dry fall. Second I use slow release ferts mixed evenly through out the soil and if the soil is dry the ferts are not released. I'm guessing but even with a totally organic soil its not fertile if its not moist. Especially if you are top dressing in the fall.
The site that gemini recommended for the burlap also had bags made out of other plastics that would help with moisture retention. I need to do more research on grow bags in general.
Something to ponder over would love to hear from yourself TM on the organics side and anyone else who has some experience with swamp and marsh grows.
PEACE
Yeah it really does depend on the environment, how high the water levels are and how vital water retention is in that area. Very good points made Hamstring
I've found that marking where the moss grows on trees and stumps is a pretty good indicator on where the water will rise to in the spring and late fall. In places that don't have a lot of water it's best to plant directly into the ground IMO, or maybe 1/2 and 1/2 resulting in a mound. I like to carve moats around my tubes to direct any water I can towards the wicking center... the plant sends a tap root down to drink from the swamp like a straw and growth is maximized when unlimited water access is had... I've had to tie plants down to keep from being noticed they got so big
GEMiNi GENETiCS
Active member
Yeah raft makes sense due to load size .... the light duty rafts would be perfect to toss a couple bales in and tow them behind a kayak or canoe ... but it does suck popping one and watching how fast it sinks .... have a few patches and an air pump just in case.
Those tubes look really good man... how did you secure the cloth and hog wire? I'm havingine over lap 6"(fencing) and using metal wire from the $ store.
Well Ham it all depends on your environment and what works for your grow site... I grow in very urban areas that have parcels of secluded land such as swamp but have heavy traffic around them ... I find these areas quite secure because Joe shoe won't got into the swamp or fenced off land and neither will a hunter due to the proximity or houses/people and business. So I can't be hauling buckets and such in/out and I need something I can leave out year after year without issue.
I looked at grow bags too but they just didn't suit what I wanted as I'd rather not grow in plastic bags that don't get a huge amount of oxygen flow .... the burplap will most definitely allow the roots to grow through .... think about how thick a smart pot is and roots grow right through that as long as there is soil and water to grow into. Plus if need be I can pick them up and move them early in the season due to flooding or lack of water.
My tubes are simple field fencing cut to make tubes about 18diameter and 18"/22" tall. Once the fence is secured I slip it inside the burlap bag and fold the sack in so that the fencing is completely covered .... now fill with soil. This will soak up water but it will also dry out and increase oxygen to the upper root zone to prevent soggy soil with wet feet that causes root rot.
The fencing is cheap .... tractor supply ... feed store and farm stores have fencing for good prices ... 47" x 330' long for $150 .... I'm cutting the roll in half @ 23.5" x 660'long.
My 18"x18" tubes will hold about 20-25gallons of soil.
Those tubes look really good man... how did you secure the cloth and hog wire? I'm havingine over lap 6"(fencing) and using metal wire from the $ store.
Well Ham it all depends on your environment and what works for your grow site... I grow in very urban areas that have parcels of secluded land such as swamp but have heavy traffic around them ... I find these areas quite secure because Joe shoe won't got into the swamp or fenced off land and neither will a hunter due to the proximity or houses/people and business. So I can't be hauling buckets and such in/out and I need something I can leave out year after year without issue.
I looked at grow bags too but they just didn't suit what I wanted as I'd rather not grow in plastic bags that don't get a huge amount of oxygen flow .... the burplap will most definitely allow the roots to grow through .... think about how thick a smart pot is and roots grow right through that as long as there is soil and water to grow into. Plus if need be I can pick them up and move them early in the season due to flooding or lack of water.
My tubes are simple field fencing cut to make tubes about 18diameter and 18"/22" tall. Once the fence is secured I slip it inside the burlap bag and fold the sack in so that the fencing is completely covered .... now fill with soil. This will soak up water but it will also dry out and increase oxygen to the upper root zone to prevent soggy soil with wet feet that causes root rot.
The fencing is cheap .... tractor supply ... feed store and farm stores have fencing for good prices ... 47" x 330' long for $150 .... I'm cutting the roll in half @ 23.5" x 660'long.
My 18"x18" tubes will hold about 20-25gallons of soil.
