Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[Mr Celsius]

Watering correctly isn't that hard. It just takes some experience. The watering needs of your plants will change throughout their grow cycle. I've never had an over watering problem with LC's mix. Not "impossible" though.
Burn1

Not the response I was looking for...

I like automated watering systems. If I can water with a drip system everyday and the plants wont get overwatered, it wont matter at what stage the plants are at... they wont be over or under watered.

Quick question: How many plants do you grow? I don't feel like lifting as many pots as I have. Trust me, this has been thought out.

Simple critique my previously proposed soil mix, please.

 

[solarz]

Thanks B1...i was just wondering about the ingredients to recipe #1 because i can easily access most of them locally, where as some of the ingredients for the teas, i'll have to order online and wait for them to be shipped. Thanks for the advice.

solarz

 

[BurnOne]

Mr. C-
Man, you're just going to have to experiment. I can't advise you on something I know nothing about. I think you would have better results by adjusting your irrigation, not your soil mix.

solarz-
Follow the recipe exactly if you want success.

Burn1

 

[toodles]

Those new to organics who want to see what real humus looks like in the making, check out my grow diary post #56 (signature link). I took the pics yesterday.

Toodles

 

[B.C.]

Let's think positive here!

Let's think positive here!

Here's a tip for you new growers. You can believe me, Burn1, or whoever you want but:

If you add the f'ing lime like B1 says, you won't do anything to harm your plants. AND...you just might get through your entire grow with no worries at all about two of the most common ailments plants have: Ca and Mg probs.



As for excessive lime causing pH problems. Not so IMO. Not in my soil mix anyway. Soil rich in humus/EWCs as per LC#1 or LC#2 OR any reasonably balanced mix will not have pH issues if limed with 2Tbls/gallon of dolomite lime, even more depending on the specific mix. The 2Tbls/gallon is derived from tests that indicate that is the "average" amount of lime needed for these types of mixes. The numbers that are used in these soil mix recipes are not just pulled from the thin air.

Toodles, go back and look at my post's and yul see I've used LC's mix and said it worked fine. I don't know how much -more- clear I can be. I jus never used it with coco. It made me wonder if it would work the same. If the cations of cal and mag aren't all being used up by the plant the ph will rise. In pete it's no big deal, but coco's ph is already at 7, the high end of the feeding spectrum. If the cations of cal an mag make the ph rise, yer -solely- depending on the humus at that point ta make sure yer plant can feed correctly. So I questioned it. If ya look at my post's, I asked B1 -several- times if he knew -forsure- the amount of humus was enough. Not sure why, but it wasn't untill his last post directed at me did he say, "yes it is enough"..... I'm not sure why you thought I said yer addin to much lime to -yer- soil or that LC's mix has too much lime in it ( remember I've used it before with pete moss )? I never said that at all! ( I only questioned the coco )..... I cautioned against liming -any- o'l bag soil mix to heavy. Those folks that made that bag soil didn't jus pull the amount of ph stablizer they use out of the air either. It's gonna be a balanced mix aswell. Most bag mixes are balanced with -everything- they need, Imo you can run into problems addin too much cal an mag to that balance ( mostly cal ) if it's already there in the proper amount to begin with. Having to much of one er two micro nutes can cause an imbalance and lockout some prime nutes aswell as micro nutes. Just as LC's mix is ina proper ratio, so is soil from a bag. The balance has to be there regaurdless of the source of the soil... I'm not sure why that caused the reaction it did? It sure wasn't my goal ta piss anyone off or question one's own plants. Hell, it's jus a discussion for learnering, nothin ta get rattled about. No matter how long ya do this there's always more ta learn! always! I didn't mean ta highjack thread with negativity B1. Yer doin good things here, keep up the good work! Take care... BC

 

[Johnny Rotten]

I've had bad experiences with adding 2 tbl/gal lime with hard water. My water is HARD 350-400 ppm's hard, and adding lime just causes problems. PH was at 8 in peat/compost mix similar to LC mix....couldn't get it to budge either.

I mix up a fuckload of soil and grow LOTS more than weed. Nothing grows good in that mix with lime except lettuce...which will grow in anything.

The problem with you guys spouting off about the LIME is either A. you don't really have hard water or B. you don't check Ph.

Sure your plants may be green and look healthy but i can guarantee if you get the PH in the correct zone, your growth rates and yield will go up.

Anyways, just my experience and observation on the issue. Feel free to tell me i don't know how to check run-off ph or that i don't know what I'm talking about. You organic guys are a trip sometimes.

 

[toodles]

I've had bad experiences with adding 2 tbl/gal lime with hard water. My water is HARD 350-400 ppm's hard, and adding lime just causes problems. PH was at 8 in peat/compost mix similar to LC mix....couldn't get it to budge either.

I mix up a fuckload of soil and grow LOTS more than weed. Nothing grows good in that mix with lime except lettuce...which will grow in anything.

The problem with you guys spouting off about the LIME is either A. you don't really have hard water or B. you don't check Ph.

Sure your plants may be green and look healthy but i can guarantee if you get the PH in the correct zone, your growth rates and yield will go up.

Anyways, just my experience and observation on the issue. Feel free to tell me i don't know how to check run-off ph or that i don't know what I'm talking about. You organic guys are a trip sometimes.

I grew up not far from where you live...as you know. That area is one big limestone ridge of sorts. I wouldn't doubt you at all about adding lime in your case.

And I have said on many occasions, "know your water and what's in it".

So if new growers KNOW they won't need all that extra lime because their water is full of it, then good...Dont add it.

I say add it if in doubt because the alternative is worse...IMO.

At the end of the day nobody on here can say with any precision what someone else should do in this regard. Too many unknowns and too little information.

And I hope these plants don't grow any faster

Toodles

 

[Johnny Rotten]

I'd just like a little note placed with these mixes that says to reduce the lime for really hard water.

We all have different environments and different experiences so there are few absolutes in gardening.

All we can speak on is our view, which is just one facet of an infinitely complex diamond.

 

[Blazned]

hey thanks for the response, the ferry morse has equal parts canadian sphagum peat moss and perlite, with some composted wood bark. its close to your #1 mix but without the worm castings, it has the dolomite in it at about the proportion you mentioned, i looked it up. anyway i decided not to transplant into my big flowering container and to just put it into a 3 gallon bucket with the above mix for now just to get the roots dried out and i put a little "cooked" tea mixed with mostly water in the mix to dampen it; until i could cook up the #1 mix. after i get the mix going for about 2 weeks im going to then transplant into the 18 gallon container for flower. of course im going to veg a bit longer to get the # of branches and yield im looking for after that transplant. thanks for your help. it was weird how hard that soil mix was and wet. it was like pure clay almost the way it stuck together. i lost about 2/3 of my root mass, i havent waterd that plant since a few days after i transplanted into that container and it was nearly rootbound to my surprise, even though in 10-12 days it was waterlogged. weird soil that was. the plant is stunted of course since i transplanted the night of my last post, but i think it will recover fine and have better roots. it looks fine, just not growing up top currently. i will be using basically your #1 mix since the ferry morse is essentially that without the worm castings.but im getting those today. so thanks for your help. next grow im going back to compost mixed with a little sand i believe. better to go with what you know i think. unless of course i love the results of the cooked batch of soiless. then i will reuse it and keep going that way. thanks for all the help. hope i didnt burn it with the cooked tea, but it looks fine just stunted some more. this whole grow was experimenting for me so im gonna start sticking to waht i know from now on until i get the indoor thing dialed in with these strains. thanks again and God bless you.

 

[BurnOne]

JR-
You are absolutely correct about dolomite and hard water.
But please keep in mind the title of this thread. Organics for BEGINNERS.
The reason I started this thread was to provide a pocket of information to get the beginner in organics off the ground and growing. And I think that most beginners will find success if they use these recipes.
If there are problems, please post them in the open forum so others can join in and suggest help for the issues at hand.
Burn1

 

[solarz]

In regards to the guano teas that are posted on page one...is there any necessary dilution that needs to happen after the tea is brewed...or can it go straight from the brewery to the plants? I've been brewing the veg recipe for about 36 hrs now, and i think its about ready, so before i used it i wanted to make sure to keep from over doing it. Thanks in advance

solarz

 

[BurnOne]

solarz-
I don't know how to say it any simpler.
Use the recipe for the dry mix in 5 gallons of water. Pour that onto your soil mix.

Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.

36 hours is a little too long IMO. 24 to 48 hours is plenty.
Burn1

 

[Mr Celsius]

36 hours is a little too long IMO. 24 to 48 hours is plenty.
Burn1

 

[solarz]

thanks, the reason i let it brew for that long was because thats how long it took to start foaming. I read that when it starts foaming, thats when you know that it is ready to go. Is that misinformation...or did i misunderstand it? Just trying to get it all right. Thanks for the help.

 

[BurnOne]

36 hours is a little too long IMO. 24 to 48 hours is plenty.
Burn1

 

[one Q]

RECIPE #5
Fish and Seaweed (This is sooo easy)

For veg growth…
1 capful 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
1 capful 0-0-1 Maxicrop liquid
1 gallon H2O

For early flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-3-1 Fish/Seaweed
1 gallon H2O

For mid to late flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-4-1 Fish
1 gallon H2O
Burn1

Burn1, so with these 4 bottles (fish emush, maxi, and 2 neptune botlles) one could have a fully organic grow? All of this can be had at local garden centers which is great too, no more grow shops.

Oh, in your opinion/exp how would this fare in coco coir?

 

[BurnOne]

one Q-
Welcome to IC.
These recipes are useless without a proper grow medium. Try LC's Mix with coir...

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Coir
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
...Wal-Mart now sells worm castings.

With that coir based mix, all you will need is those four bottles. If you can get the Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Seaweed you can use that instead of Maxicrop liquid.

Burn1

 

[one Q]

thanks for a quick reply!! Now with LCs mix and stated bottles would one feed every watering, or alternate with plain water... or is this a plant reading issue? How safe would it be to add LK or Floralicious Plus to this mix?

 

[BurnOne]

I'm familiar with LK. It's fine to use it.
"Reading" plants is the best way to feed. The second best is to follow the directions on the product label.
I'd start by feeding seedlings after they start to yellow a bit. Then every third watering. When you switch the lights to 12/12, I'd hit 'em with the 5-1-1 and seaweed every other watering for two to three weeks to help with the stretching.
Then use the flowering recipe every watering until harvest.
Burn1

 

[Mr Celsius]

Try LC's Mix with coir...

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Coir
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
...Wal-Mart now sells worm castings.

With that coir based mix, all you will need is those four bottles. If you can get the Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Seaweed you can use that instead of Maxicrop liquid.

Burn1

Why are you recommending coir over peat now? I'm wondering the reason for change... I know you said you prefer peat.