Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[dirkdaddy]

I've got another question for anyone that knows. I've started my seeds in some homemade potting mix from the local nursery. it contains peat moss, vermiculite, perlite, and some bark looking stuff. i cut the stuff with a lot more perlite to air it out and added dolomite lime to balance the ph.

i'm working on mixing up lc's mix with coir and with recipe #1 and I wondering if I can transplant the plants started in the first mixture into the new lc's mix based on coco coir. basically what I am asking is if the peat/coir will clash in any way and impede growth or potentially kill/screw up the plant. any issues there? if so i'll just save the LC's mix for the new beans coming in but I was hoping to make this first grow organic even though I didn't originally intend to. if there is going to be an issue i'll just use the remaining potting mix I mixed up and use my FF nutes I bought for a regular soil grow then go onto organic after this one.

 

[BurnOne]

I see no problem with that.
Burn1

 

[retawgnob]

Oops!

Oops!

I gotta stop writing back when i'm that high. And come to think of it when i applied the ferts last time i did half veg/half bloom i don't think i added the MaxiCrop...(that was before i started applyed the bloom nutes)... not to sure what i was thinking at the time.

Thank for the paitence and advice.

Peace.

P.S. any worries?

 

[budvapor]

awesome!

awesome!

burn1 and others, thanks for the contribution! i read through the whole thread over the past few weeks and learned a lot. really cool stuff about how nature works. i'll be putting this to practice soon...

 

[BurnOne]

budvapor-
Thank you for reading. Now, get growing.
Burn1

 

[toodles]

P.S. any worries?

What strain is it again?
How old is that plant? Overall age from germination.
How long has it been in flower?
No branching, or did you trim them off?
Is she growing outdoors, or are you just taking pics outdoors?

Looks too pale green to me, but that may be lighting and/or strain.

Toodles

 

[retawgnob]

Thank you for the responce Toodles! It is a bag seed; 2 out of 4 were females. This one is the the one that has grown in this pot since it was a seedling. So, to answer your question i do not know.The plants are 3 months or so old, from germination.

The females showed them selves about 3 or 4 weeks ago. The smaller one earlier in this thread is starting to get amber calyx's,(same batch, same age) and Burn1 called it about the hermy issue, i think the top flower may some as well. The one we are talking about is hermy free, but next to one i'm sure what to expect.

They are pretty small, but they are a good size for where i'm doing this. So as for that question, no there are no branches, what will this effect as far as the buds are concerned?

And Yes, she is outdoors. Burn1 was advising that i started my (EJ)Bloom nutes too soon. So i am letting the soil dry out on both of them and then adding full strength veg nutes.(Fish Emulsions & MaxiCrop) Then i assume i would return to bloom nutes, or half and half, then full bloom, not sure... what you think? (you were commenting on your grow diary that you were getting good at leveling off on your nutes)

Thanks again. Peace.

 

[Blazned]

...

 

[Blazned]

tried to upload some photos but couldnt, dont know how all this works on this site.

 

[BurnOne]

Blazned-
You are the reason I started this thread.
To continue on like you're doing is purely an EXPERIMENT. I have absolutely no experience with that soil mix at all. I too would be guessing and that won't help you.
My best suggestion to you is to use one of LC's Mixes and transplant your plants into it immediately.
Sativas like it dry and light on feeding. I use a little more perlite when growing them.
I don't see any compost or worm castings in your mix. A MUST for organic soil. I also see no powdered dolomite lime. Sativas need the magnesium and calcium dolomite provides.
That's the best advise I can give you Man. If you're having problems and you want them fixed, go with a proven method like on the first page of this thread.

Try this mix for Sativas...

4 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir
4 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

Burn1

 

[jrw]

Try this mix for Sativas...

4 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir
4 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

Burn1

I can back this one up. Sweet ratio for Sativas.
If your water source is very high ph wise, maybe you wanna cut the dolomite lime to 1 tbsp/gallon...

 

[BurnOne]

^^^ No! Dolomite provides magnesium and calcium. Even if your pH is perfect, use powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tbs./gal. or 1 cup/cubic foot of mix.
Burn1

 

[toodles]

^^^ No! Dolomite provides magnesium and calcium. Even if your pH is perfect, use powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tbs./gal. or 1 cup/cubic foot of mix.
Burn1

Right on Burn1

My water has Ca and Mg in it, the source of its moderate hardness. I still lime my soil, and if anything err towards 3Tbls/gallon. Why people shy away from liming their soils is just a mystery to me.

BTW, if you get a chance, check post #2 in my grow diary. For better or worse, my plants seem to be thriving in that mix I made up. All three are doing well, but that #61 is just growing like a weed LOL!!

Toodles

 

[Mr Celsius]

B1, quick question for ya. On LC #1 I was thinking of doing 4 parts half peat/half coco, 4 parts perlite and 2 parts wormcastings. I desire a very light mix that drys out quickly; I want to water about every 2 days, even every day would be fine.

Ideally, I guess the whole point for me is, I want a mix that is impossible to overwater. What do you think? Suggestions?

 

[B.C.]

LOL! wow??? I not sure how this went back to FFOF?

LOL! wow??? I not sure how this went back to FFOF?

B.C.-
If you're using FFOF, you need more humus. You need about 20% worm castings in any soil mix.
LK isn't gonna get it. There is a product called Liquid Humus that may work. But I go for "simple" and use worm castings.
This thread provides information for beginners. IMO beginners should start with a proven method and not experiment.
Burn1

B1, I think yer dead wrong about ffof. Why, because I use grow big and tiger bloom in it all the time. Both are -low- in pH. I've also used teas, that when tested for ph were higher than the acceptable range for a feeding plant. There -no way- I could do this without enough humus in the soil. Btw, I don't use any extra lime either....I'm not sure why ya threw the LK thing in there? Yer the one that said you should use it ta help buffer the ph because of the humic acid in it, at the very start of this thread? Humic acid is only a -small- part of what's in LK. I don't care for the stuff. I think if ya use it during the stretch in flower it will make em stetch more than normal. It did in strains I've been runnin for a long time. If the plants feeding criteria has been met, you don't need it anyway. I do jus great without it...... Somethin else I'd like ta touch on here while I'm at it. You said earlier in this thread that we're not buffering the medium. But if yer useing a pete based medium you -do- have ta buffer the medium. Pete moss has a low ph, too low for a plant to feed on. This is why it's important to add lime and humus. Which brings me to the point of useing coco ina mix. Starting at a ph of 7 an adding lime is jus gonna make it go even higher. Are you -sure- that the standard 20% compost or castings is going ta be enough humus ta buffer the ph? useing pete moss it's not gonna matter that much anyway because the lime will bring up the ph ta where a plant can still feed on it, but it's not gonna be that way with coco. I'm not tryin ta be a butthead about this so don't take it that way. Everything I've stated is simple logic, so, I'll ask you this one more time: have -you- personally used coco in LC's mix ta know the humus amount will buffer the high ph? ...... I agree lime is great for cal and mag but you can't forget what it does to the ph! I've seen some say you need ta throw it in -any- bag mix of soil, add 3 Tbls spoons while yer at. All I can say is, too much of anything is not good! May common sense prevail.... Take care... BC

 

[toodles]

Here's a tip for you new growers. You can believe me, Burn1, or whoever you want but:

If you add the f'ing lime like B1 says, you won't do anything to harm your plants. AND...you just might get through your entire grow with no worries at all about two of the most common ailments plants have: Ca and Mg probs.

I use "Liquid Humus". 15% humic acid. It's very potent stuff and can be overused easily...so be careful with it. Use as directed. I use it as part of a soil drench when making up my soil mix.

As for excessive lime causing pH problems. Not so IMO. Not in my soil mix anyway. Soil rich in humus/EWCs as per LC#1 or LC#2 OR any reasonably balanced mix will not have pH issues if limed with 2Tbls/gallon of dolomite lime, even more depending on the specific mix. The 2Tbls/gallon is derived from tests that indicate that is the "average" amount of lime needed for these types of mixes. The numbers that are used in these soil mix recipes are not just pulled from the thin air.

Toodles

Here's some of my plants growing in my overlimed soil, a complete decription of which can be found Post #2 in my grow diary. They really look awful don't they?

This one on the right was growing nearly 3" a day till I LST'd her last night. Crappy growth rate huh in my overlimed soil?

 

[BurnOne]

B.C.-
I love ya Man. But damn, you're hard headed.
I have used LC's Mix with coir as directed instead of peat. No problems. I just like peat better.
Dolomite buffers NOTHING! It can correct pH to about 7. It provides calcium and magnesium.
Humic acids and bacteria BUFFER pH so that the plant can take up nutes at other than optunum pH levels for our plant. Therefore, you don't need a liquid nute solution near the optimum pH nor do you need a grow medium near an optimum pH for our plants. pH is a NON ISSUE if your grow medium is right. LC's Mix is one of those grow mediums.
About Liquid Karma... You asked if the humic acids in it were enough to buffer the pH of dolomite. Your statement makes no sense. Why would you want to buffer the pH of the mineral that adjusts pH? I also use LK for the carbohydrates and amino acids it contains. Worm casting tea contains loads more humic acids than LK.
If you like FFOF then by all means use it. I've tried it and found it to need lots of perlite. But whatever brings success is what we should be using.
If you want to debate my methods then let's do it in an open forum or by PM. This thread is for beginners. You're definitely not one of them.
Burn1

 

[BurnOne]

B1, quick question for ya. On LC #1 I was thinking of doing 4 parts half peat/half coco, 4 parts perlite and 2 parts wormcastings. I desire a very light mix that drys out quickly; I want to water about every 2 days, even every day would be fine.

Ideally, I guess the whole point for me is, I want a mix that is impossible to overwater. What do you think? Suggestions?

Watering correctly isn't that hard. It just takes some experience. The watering needs of your plants will change throughout their grow cycle. I've never had an over watering problem with LC's mix. Not "impossible" though.
Burn1

 

[solarz]

Burn one (or anyone else who can answer),
I was wondering if you could use all of the ingredients for recipe #1 but brew it as you would a tea, and water the plants with it? or is this strictly a soil amendment regimen? And if it is only for addition to the soil, should the plants only be given straight water throughout both veg and flower? thanks in advance.

Oh and one more quick question..i couldn't find any Maxicrop kelp extract to use in the "veg mix", but i was able to get some all organic kelp powder from the help food store when i picked up some blackstrap. Will this be a sufficient replacement for the maxicrop?

Thanks again
solarz

 

[BurnOne]

solarz-
Welcome to IC.
The bone meal in Recipe #1 isn't water soluble. It must be suspended in an organic medium so the bacteria can break it down. Blood and kelp meal can be used in teas. That recipe is good for people who just want to add water until harvest.
I'm not sure about the kelp powder you're talking about. It's best to use kelp meal. Maxicrop powdered concentrate is very economical. Maxicrop liquid or Neptune's Harvest Seaweed is another fine choice.
Burn1