Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[Weird]

I have not. A trial would be interesting.

there is an interesting article, says the acidic property is not real.

http://www.myearthgarden.com/2012/02/the-truth-about-coffee-grounds-in-your-garden/

seems the brewing processes removes any of the acidic properties but says not to use them directly. I don't know if I agree exactly with the reasoning.

 

[CannaBrix]

Weird-

I'm going to be trying this out. Right now I am in the process of choosing a keeper clone, so the trials aren't going to be great. But it will tell me if they are inherently bad for the plants and if they are a decent supplier of nitrogen (my main concern).

I'm just figuring, I drink coffee every day. Other than the caffeine and acidity (which are both removed with the brewing process, why is it different than any other plant meal?

Seems much more sustainable to use the grounds than to buy another source of material for nitrogen.

Some cons I believe may be relevant:
Dried grounds repel water (like peat moss)
Trace caffeine could have an effect?

 

[BigBozat]

Weird-

I'm going to be trying this out. Right now I am in the process of choosing a keeper clone, so the trials aren't going to be great. But it will tell me if they are inherently bad for the plants and if they are a decent supplier of nitrogen (my main concern).

I'm just figuring, I drink coffee every day. Other than the caffeine and acidity (which are both removed with the brewing process, why is it different than any other plant meal?

Seems much more sustainable to use the grounds than to buy another source of material for nitrogen.

Some cons I believe may be relevant:
Dried grounds repel water (like peat moss)
Trace caffeine could have an effect?

Not a complete set of experimental trials, but this provides some early observational experiments that suggest caution:

http://extension.oregonstate.edu//l...n/lane/sites/default/files/CoffeeGrdTrial.pdf

 

[Bongstar420]

Because there is no real mass adopted and existing baseline (even in mainstream hort.), you can liken it to cutting edge (insiders in the tech world used to call it the bleeding edge because of the costs attached) and adopting it comes at a cost of the learning curve attached.

Not many people are willing to change the risk reward ratio for the implied benefits los/rols brings. I don't admonish anyone for that. If someone is using another technique to get "medical grade", then the technique ends up being subjectively different.

Thus the reason I don't preach LOS, I grow LOS and pay the price or reap the rewards for my efforts. I haven't asked anyone for a guarantee or a consolation prize for when it doesn't work out.

I do thank you for your input and it is a consideration I am watching closely and am hoping the subtle difference in how I approach the technique will hold up over the term.

The more people who try it and learn from failure or success, the further the community as a whole benefits.

Failure isn't permanent unless you don't learn from it and it is essential to the learning process.

Just produce advanced quality products and advertize that you are on recycled media..its working for me. Gives me really good "organic" points with the buyers. So far, it hasn't been much of a price point (not to say I can't get it if I really try though) but I think its getting me on the shelf, and for a start up, thats more valuable. Plus, I'm saving at least $100 per cycle..

So far, I have botched as much recycled stuff as fresh. What you see is a bunch of people blindly following directions with the fresh stuff...the recycled media thing is pretty "a priori" for me since I prefer to understand my inputs vs blindly access profits.

i'm a hobbyist doing these things for fun. i guess my main lesson here was that too little volume when it comes to soil gives you trouble that would be otherwise avoided. proper mix, water source and top dress inputs too, but the baseline to avoid instant fail

I find recycling smaller containers to be easier than larger ones. Currently, most of my media is entirely 3-7 cycles old with a volume of 30-40 cubic feet or so. 20% of the media is 10-15 cycles old. I actually pour acid into my media and don't have much pH issues at all (on occasion Fe/Mn lockout from pH 7) I have an ecosysystem living in it which includes several species of worms, fungus gnats, predatory and detritus eating mites, centipedes, non-parasitic nematodes, various kinds of symbiotic fungi, straight mushroom fungi, several kinds of wandering spider, millipedes, spring tails, and probably some other stuff I haven't noticed yet. I did have a few species of flies, but I got rid of that particular breeding habitat (it is also a fungus gnat paradise). I think the nematodes are on their way out due to a nutrient I use which is fine with me because they creep me out.

Weird-

I'm going to be trying this out. Right now I am in the process of choosing a keeper clone, so the trials aren't going to be great. But it will tell me if they are inherently bad for the plants and if they are a decent supplier of nitrogen (my main concern).

I'm just figuring, I drink coffee every day. Other than the caffeine and acidity (which are both removed with the brewing process, why is it different than any other plant meal?

Seems much more sustainable to use the grounds than to buy another source of material for nitrogen.

Some cons I believe may be relevant:
Dried grounds repel water (like peat moss)
Trace caffeine could have an effect?

Just mix some Gypsum and Dolomite into the coffee (~1:2:20 dry weight). Coffee is no more hydrophobic than standard horticultural media under severely droughted conditions. Just mix the drys into moist media. If you want to top dress, mix a little water in to the measured amount and sprinkle after setting; water in as needed. Fungus will grow top if you top dress with it and keep moist. The fungus forms a solid mat and may cause penetration issues while it is growing. It tends to tolerate fairly dry conditions after it gets going..

 

[Scrappy4]

i'm thinking that challenges will probably arise trying to implement these techniques to small scale, and top that doing it half-assed.

i'm personally guilty of this myself. i did 6 cycles of no-till in 4 gallon containers with variable success. the 7th just didn't cut it, plants were yellow and growing slowly, myriad reasons why that happened (compaction? imbalances?) oh and it was more transitional than pure rols/los too.

I ran into a little problem around the same time. I fixed mine with extra nitrogen. I foliar fed alfalfa several times a week and neem oil with powdered aloe vera weekly. The plants turned around and the beat went on. Not saying that's what is happening in your room, just saying it can be fixed, once you figure out what the problem is.

I'm not around here much at all anymore, and really dont give a rip, but I'm amazed that some still are considering what they put up with. The thing is Los works, it's easy and grows great herb. Love it hate it whatever. If you wanna throw chemicals on it, go for it, but take it to a more appropriate area. This isn't the half assed organic section.

 

[non]

i'm not that good with words so it can come out wrong, i suppose. these things take time to sink in for some, like me figuring out what can be done within a definition of a gardening approach. i've always used the same soil, just trying no till approach caused some trouble, the process or pathway to full realisation is not finished.

i understand these posts can seem stupid or simplistic but i mean no harm, very interested in this stuff. i've went through most of the major threads here and even some books mentioned, but i still don't get it. someday

just to clarify: i'd only see problems trying to do this stuff in a hobbyist closet scale using too little biomass, i can't imagine fucking up big beds of soils or similar. and when you work with only couple gallons, don't do it half-assed like i did.

 

[CannaBrix]

Not a complete set of experimental trials, but this provides some early observational experiments that suggest caution:

http://extension.oregonstate.edu//l...n/lane/sites/default/files/CoffeeGrdTrial.pdf

Another problem with this is that there is no way I am using 2" of coffee. I'm using a small top dressing, even an inch would be far too much. It actually addresses this at the end of the paper.

Just mix some Gypsum and Dolomite into the coffee (~1:2:20 dry weight). Coffee is no more hydrophobic than standard horticultural media under severely droughted conditions. Just mix the drys into moist media. If you want to top dress, mix a little water in to the measured amount and sprinkle after setting; water in as needed. Fungus will grow top if you top dress with it and keep moist. The fungus forms a solid mat and may cause penetration issues while it is growing. It tends to tolerate fairly dry conditions after it gets going..

What would the purpose of the gypsum and lime be? I am not worried about pH as there are numerous sources that say the used grounds are not too acidic.

 

[heady blunts]

I would need a thousand plants to keep up with my weekly coffee grounds!

 

[heady blunts]

I don't know how the roasting and brewing processes may affect these numbers, but it looks like the raw seed has decent levels of N, K, and Ca. not as many trace minerals as I would have assumed....

coffee arabica

 

[FatherEarth]

What would be more valuable than any recipe is a grams of yield per ergs scale or graph.

Or at least an outline of what it takes to get x amount of top quality with x cultivar with x amount of soil x soil recipe....

How many gallons of x you need to finish a plant of x size ..etc this would help newcomers hit home runs first time at bat. My soil recipe will pull a lb of top shelf with approx 32.5 gallons per plant two plants in a 65 gallon. This is my minimum soil recommendation for my mix to get quality results start to finish nothing other than compost teas and water. It could be less needed but that's as low as I've experimented with so far, just as an example of what I'm trying to convey. Yes there are variables that limit yield but making quality of any amount isn't so variable.....also leaving nutrients behind for more runs is also important imo... So getting it all the down to the min is to be avoided...

 

[Weird]

 

[CannaBrix]

Weird-

Do you have a removable screen in the middle there? Could you tell me more about it?

 

[Weird]

yeah i just threw screening material on top of the scrog frame and used it as a trimming table. Non glandy leaves are bucked back into the pot from teh plant came from, glandy stuff is left on the screen to dry. I flower and dry in the same space.

 

[CannaBrix]

Weird-

Let me rephrase that, I meant in your first picture. In the middle you have a space. Is there a screen that you fit in there while you are growing?

 

[Weird]

no

as I took down plants from the scrog and made space I put them down so I woudl be able to work straight from there

like the swiss army knife/vw bus of grow spaces, have to do alot with a lil space, just getting it to work out for me

here is it b4 it filled in

 

[il19z8rn4li1]

epic harvest Weird

 

[mojave green]

no

as I took down plants from the scrog and made space I put them down so I woudl be able to work straight from there

like the swiss army knife/vw bus of grow spaces, have to do alot with a lil space, just getting it to work out for me

here is it b4 it filled in

View Image

Are those bugs on those stickies?

 

[Weird]

yep fungus gnats

 

[mojave green]

Holy snikes! I'd burn my grow room and start over! I freak if I see more than 10 or so bugs on mine.

 

[Weird]

Part of my living soil ecosystem is composed of root feeders, spring tails and fungus gnats. If I were in sterile in rock wool I would be concerned. In this scenario I am not.