MJtheIndicator
Member
How late in flower have you tried a micronutrient foliar? Have you tried guano in foliar feeds?
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Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...
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MJtheIndicator
Member
You and John Lennon both. Three minutes in roughly when Alice is speaking to Dinah.hahah NO SHIT...Alice in Wonderland is a favorite of mine.
Only chemical, hort oils or plant feed teas like alfalfa. I do not like the idea of a guano foliar. I know people rave about EWC foliars, but I don't use that for foliar either. I haven't had the need to in LOS.
This is where I personally would rather use plant based or chemical based fertilizers.
On a microbiological basis I have some basic understanding of pathogens.
Look at ecoli for example, it exists in reptile guts, as well as in their feces. It only becomes a danger when the microbiological balance is disrupted.
I think the instances of ecoli in farming applications are in the same vein.
This is why I stress natural & balanced, because balanced systems means balanced microbiology which keeps this in check.
It is a common practice to establish and balance microbiology in fish tanks, using simply metrics to measure effectiveness.
I found an article that showed herbicides at sublethal amounts cause ecoli to become resistant, so another reason to avoid herbacides.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=303975
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]IMPORTANCE Increasingly common chemicals used in agriculture, domestic gardens, and public places can induce a multiple-antibiotic resistance phenotype in potential pathogens. The effect occurs upon simultaneous exposure to antibiotics and is faster than the lethal effect of antibiotics. The magnitude of the induced response may undermine antibiotic therapy and substantially increase the probability of spontaneous mutation to higher levels of resistance. The combination of high use of both herbicides and antibiotics in proximity to farm animals and important insects, such as honeybees, might also compromise their therapeutic effects and drive greater use of antibiotics. To address the crisis of antibiotic resistance requires broadening our view of environmental contributors to the evolution of resistance. [/FONT]
MJtheIndicator
Member
I'm down with bokashi, but doesn't make as much sense in foliar. I will have to get back to you on the who shits better issue. Heck we might be the first to learn that Kopi Luwak is indeed dangerous to consume.
It's hard to get a cougar to stand still long enough to properly dress a plant...
It's hard to get a cougar to stand still long enough to properly dress a plant...
I am not arguing against it just giving my reasoning on not using it in that manner.
My focus on feeding the plant in LOS is through the soil, and I prefer my inputs are processed by it.
FWIW I don't know of many plants that feed from guano naturally through the leaf, because I am pretty sure you can get a cow to stand in the same place long enough to feed a plant but I don't know how well the plant will feed off of cow patties when applied directly to the plant.
Might be worth a trial if you have a farm.
My focus on feeding the plant in LOS is through the soil, and I prefer my inputs are processed by it.
FWIW I don't know of many plants that feed from guano naturally through the leaf, because I am pretty sure you can get a cow to stand in the same place long enough to feed a plant but I don't know how well the plant will feed off of cow patties when applied directly to the plant.
Might be worth a trial if you have a farm.
MJtheIndicator
Member
We all dread under splash so I suspect the same goes for plants in nature, but yes clinical trials in this scenario are worth a shot because there are divergent variables above soil affecting nutrition as there are below. Trick is how affective it can be as opposed to how long will it take for plant morphology to kick in, adjust and acclimate. Regarding pathogens, there is common practice in India to construct homes made with cow dung bricks. The Maasai also value cow dung as a repellant, but then the usage as with the Lakota is more in line with its burnt affects.
il19z8rn4li1
Member
check it out.
3 days after sticking straight into the soil and given a good watering.
They are perky and happy looking Hells yea
Nothing but NLS and straw mulch. didnt get chance to topdress
this bed yet, soon though.
3 days after sticking straight into the soil and given a good watering.
They are perky and happy looking
Hells yea Nothing but NLS and straw mulch. didnt get chance to topdress
this bed yet, soon though.
With Respect
With Respect
I wonder if somehow the living soil takes over the grower and they become just a host for the living organic soil. Microbes and fungi colonize the cognitive centers of the brain and the growers slowly become enslaved by the soil. Unable to produce their own thoughts any longer. They quickly spiral outward to the fringes of online social networking until they find a safe haven with others suffering from the same microbial/fungal brain colonization.
All the while producing some really great looking herbs...
Anyone else notice this phenomenon?
I'm awe struck by the sword fighting of egos that always over runs the living soil threads. I just can't figure what could be causing this sort of behavior in people who at one time or another seemed like reasonable folks. Lots of love to all those people able to have civil discussions about organic soil. It's been an interesting ride. I'm going to take the road of many before me and gracefully bow out. If admin here will close one of the most epic threads to ever grace the mag pages ( growing big plants outdoors) over menial riffraff this thread should have been condemned and closed long ago. Lots of respect to all those pioneers who went against the grain despite the naysayers. The same folks who have put in the work, and shared the results for all to learn from. These are the people who make this place worthwhile. Not to forget all the solid contributors weathering the storm who have taken a vow of silence due to the asshat nature that seems to be rampant and ruining a lot of good discussions.
Like ALL other things, it too shall pass.
Grow like nobody is watching and BLESS UP!
FE
With Respect
I wonder if somehow the living soil takes over the grower and they become just a host for the living organic soil. Microbes and fungi colonize the cognitive centers of the brain and the growers slowly become enslaved by the soil. Unable to produce their own thoughts any longer. They quickly spiral outward to the fringes of online social networking until they find a safe haven with others suffering from the same microbial/fungal brain colonization.
All the while producing some really great looking herbs...
Anyone else notice this phenomenon?
I'm awe struck by the sword fighting of egos that always over runs the living soil threads. I just can't figure what could be causing this sort of behavior in people who at one time or another seemed like reasonable folks. Lots of love to all those people able to have civil discussions about organic soil. It's been an interesting ride. I'm going to take the road of many before me and gracefully bow out. If admin here will close one of the most epic threads to ever grace the mag pages ( growing big plants outdoors) over menial riffraff this thread should have been condemned and closed long ago. Lots of respect to all those pioneers who went against the grain despite the naysayers. The same folks who have put in the work, and shared the results for all to learn from. These are the people who make this place worthwhile. Not to forget all the solid contributors weathering the storm who have taken a vow of silence due to the asshat nature that seems to be rampant and ruining a lot of good discussions.
Like ALL other things, it too shall pass.
Grow like nobody is watching and BLESS UP!
FE
Pendleton
Member
Big plants thread got killed by Backyard and Pono endlessly at each other's throats. I like them both as growers and was frustrated to see them bring out the worst in each other. It's a shame.
There's a reason almost all the reasonable educated growers originally associated with "ROLS"/"LOS" have peeled off, and it's because what started as a sensible soil mix turned into this gigantic dogmatic way of looking at everything. Things had been really nasty here for a long time but I think the hostility really started when Gascan flipped his shit and took up business with *********. The only people willing to turn a soil mix into this big thing to argue and fight with other people on a forum about are people with either too much time or they're not playing with a full deck. It's so frustrating to see a bunch of people continue to act this way, when this whole us vs. them mentality comes from one unhinged IC member throwing a gigantic temper tantrum and storming off to other forums to start a jihad because mods told him he couldn't break the rules.
I try not to be to mean, but there's just such an irony in Weird taking up their banner when quite a few of the rols clique only spoke poorly of him that I can't help but say something. Dude was literally the little dog being kicked around a couple years ago, but now he's the pitbull for the same people that kicked him? Frustrating.
There's a reason almost all the reasonable educated growers originally associated with "ROLS"/"LOS" have peeled off, and it's because what started as a sensible soil mix turned into this gigantic dogmatic way of looking at everything. Things had been really nasty here for a long time but I think the hostility really started when Gascan flipped his shit and took up business with *********. The only people willing to turn a soil mix into this big thing to argue and fight with other people on a forum about are people with either too much time or they're not playing with a full deck. It's so frustrating to see a bunch of people continue to act this way, when this whole us vs. them mentality comes from one unhinged IC member throwing a gigantic temper tantrum and storming off to other forums to start a jihad because mods told him he couldn't break the rules.
I try not to be to mean, but there's just such an irony in Weird taking up their banner when quite a few of the rols clique only spoke poorly of him that I can't help but say something. Dude was literally the little dog being kicked around a couple years ago, but now he's the pitbull for the same people that kicked him? Frustrating.
The more you post about me being an issue the more it brings clarity to LOS. Thanks guys for all of your contributions to this thread that others might learn from it.
:: golfclap
I guess if people simply stuck to the topic of the thread, these issues wouldn't happen
Want to hear a funny phenomenon.
Noobie forum member and growers who are part of the legal green rush come on line and participate in threads by bringing in off topic critiques against posters instead of focusing on the thread topic.
If you are not adding value to a thread by staying within the guidelines of it what is your purpose?
Better yet is the first time they pull a decent plant think they recreated the plant, the methodologies involved or add some value the world need to pay them for it. They are convinced they are a consultant, breeder, elite grower, broker and salesman in one. So of course they run into every thread hoping to enlighten people to their success.
I don't need a clique/crew behind me to stand up for myself. Truth cannot be silenced and once it has been uncovered it cannot be denied. That is why I can be so vocal calling out people of all type of stature here and yet here I remain.
I know this truth because I put my time in with this plant, something you can't learn from the web or a book or get cheap and easy.
Haters gonna hate, douches gonna douche, but none of them will post their stellar efforts at LOS.
My guess is that because they haven't had results they are proud of or are too afraid to try in the first place.
Prove me wrong, show me how you slayed it with LOS, without anything additional, how you mastered the methodology, maximized the results and still found them to be unsatisfactory side by side to your transitional methods your coming in to hawk because that is the bottom line.
But at least make a thread with an appropriate title like why I prefer transitional to LOS, so it can be on topic.
:: golfclap
I guess if people simply stuck to the topic of the thread, these issues wouldn't happen
Want to hear a funny phenomenon.
Noobie forum member and growers who are part of the legal green rush come on line and participate in threads by bringing in off topic critiques against posters instead of focusing on the thread topic.
If you are not adding value to a thread by staying within the guidelines of it what is your purpose?
Better yet is the first time they pull a decent plant think they recreated the plant, the methodologies involved or add some value the world need to pay them for it. They are convinced they are a consultant, breeder, elite grower, broker and salesman in one. So of course they run into every thread hoping to enlighten people to their success.
I don't need a clique/crew behind me to stand up for myself. Truth cannot be silenced and once it has been uncovered it cannot be denied. That is why I can be so vocal calling out people of all type of stature here and yet here I remain.
I know this truth because I put my time in with this plant, something you can't learn from the web or a book or get cheap and easy.
Haters gonna hate, douches gonna douche, but none of them will post their stellar efforts at LOS.
My guess is that because they haven't had results they are proud of or are too afraid to try in the first place.
Prove me wrong, show me how you slayed it with LOS, without anything additional, how you mastered the methodology, maximized the results and still found them to be unsatisfactory side by side to your transitional methods your coming in to hawk because that is the bottom line.
But at least make a thread with an appropriate title like why I prefer transitional to LOS, so it can be on topic.
There are accepted definitions to the term organic farming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming
and organic horticulture horticulture
If you are building a soil from scratch indoors or outdoors (like most people growing in smart pots) you aren't starting with sub-standard soil.
Performance problems shouldn't be such an issue that you rush to the bottle before the season starts, that is a proactive hedging of the bet, and is outside the connotation of organic.
Performance problems shouldn't be such an issue that you rush to the bottle before the season starts, that is a proactive hedging of the bet, and is outside the connotation of organic.
i'm thinking that challenges will probably arise trying to implement these techniques to small scale, and top that doing it half-assed.
i'm personally guilty of this myself. i did 6 cycles of no-till in 4 gallon containers with variable success. the 7th just didn't cut it, plants were yellow and growing slowly, myriad reasons why that happened (compaction? imbalances?) oh and it was more transitional than pure rols/los too.
i'm personally guilty of this myself. i did 6 cycles of no-till in 4 gallon containers with variable success. the 7th just didn't cut it, plants were yellow and growing slowly, myriad reasons why that happened (compaction? imbalances?) oh and it was more transitional than pure rols/los too.
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Because there is no real mass adopted and existing baseline (even in mainstream hort.), you can liken it to cutting edge (insiders in the tech world used to call it the bleeding edge because of the costs attatched) and adopting it comes at a cost of the learning curve attached.
Not many people are willing to change the risk reward ratio for the implied benefits los/rols brings. I don't admonish anyone for that. If someone is using another technique to get "medical grade", then the technique ends up being subjectively different.
Thus the reason I don't preach LOS, I grow LOS and pay the price or reap the rewards for my efforts. I haven't asked anyone for a guarantee or a consolation prize for when it doesn't work out.
I do thank you for your input and it is a consideration I am watching closely and am hoping the subtle difference in how I approach the technique will hold up over the term.
The more people who try it and learn from failure or success, the further the community as a whole benefits.
Failure isn't permanent unless you don't learn from it and it is essential to the learning process.
Not many people are willing to change the risk reward ratio for the implied benefits los/rols brings. I don't admonish anyone for that. If someone is using another technique to get "medical grade", then the technique ends up being subjectively different.
Thus the reason I don't preach LOS, I grow LOS and pay the price or reap the rewards for my efforts. I haven't asked anyone for a guarantee or a consolation prize for when it doesn't work out.
I do thank you for your input and it is a consideration I am watching closely and am hoping the subtle difference in how I approach the technique will hold up over the term.
The more people who try it and learn from failure or success, the further the community as a whole benefits.
Failure isn't permanent unless you don't learn from it and it is essential to the learning process.
il19z8rn4li1
Member
BOTH of the above statements I live by and express to EVERYONE
that converses with me in my veggie garden
Once things are dialed in.. one can feed up to 10x the amount of
people on 1 acre compared to 1 acre of conventional farming
More nutritious food = dont have to eat as much...
Gotta get rid of that, "American Portion Size" lol
