Lacto Bacilli: process and discussion

[rrog]

I'm not sure we're on the same page GH. My fault

If you have created the serum as described

Ratio of water to rice is 2:1
Ratio of milk to fermented rice wash is 10:1

You let the serum run until it's basically out of food. Again, all per the original directions.

My question was, "what if I don't want to dilute the whole batch of serum. What if I want to put the undiluted serum in the fridge", as is one of the options. "How much raw serum would I add to a gallon of water to use on plants immediately?"

The answer is 1.5ml.

You could still take the serum and run a 20:1 dilution, then take 2-4 Tablespoons of that and add to a gallon of water.

Or you could just take 1.5ml of raw serum and add directly to the gallon and get the same exact concentration. (close )

I don't mean to complicate things. Maybe someone might find that factoid useful.

 

[maryjohn]

Looks to me like you are simplifying things.

In my paltry experience with EM, I have noticed it is fine to go beyond the 1:1000 standard ratio. I have gone to 1:750 with no problems, and my worms get 1:250 or greater.

 

[rrog]

OK good info there.

So 1000:1 is common "Standard Ratio." That would mean adding 3.8ml to a gallon.

My math above represents a 2500:1 dilution. But I got that using the original math in the instructions.

 

[maryjohn]

I would stick to the original to begin. I am pretty sure the LAB in EM are no different in your serum, but it may be more concentrated than what I brew with molasses or barley malt.

If the pH is around 3-3.5 it's the same though.

Are you going to do any bokashi with your serum?

 

[ganja din]

Hey rrog,

Could someone check my math, please? I have the yellow serum, and I'd like to use in my medium right away. 20:1 dilution with water and I'm good to go?

EDIT: I dilute 20:1 and THEN further dilute 4 tablespoons in a gallon of water? Wow, what a dilution!

You want to apply LAB serium without fermenting into pure culture, yes? Then use this ratio to make your application solution (same mix if fermenting):

Dilution ratios:
LAB serium:unsulfrated molasses:water = 1:1:20

Then apply that solution as you would apply fully fermented (eg. activated) LAB pure culture (see below).

I think either the application directions you have, or something else confused/misinformed you by mistake.

Application of LAB pure culture (PC), AEM and ACT:

Biological solution:water = 50:1, 100:1, 250:1, 500:1, 1000:1, Etc

For ACT lower ratios are fine, even below 50:1. For use of LAB PC and AEM higher ratios are suggested depending upon usage. I apply LAB PC and AEM at 100:1 to 250:1 most of the time. But, if spraying a stinky pile of something I use 50:1.

HTH, oh yea, make sure water is chlorine and chloramine free!

 

[rrog]

I'm not the smartest guy, so I'm still confused. Sorry

I want to use the un-fermented sample I have now, yes exactly.

Essentially you have the same 20:1 dilution as the original instructions say.

Then you take that dilution and take 2-4 Tablespoons and add to a gallon of water. 2 Tablespoons = 125:1 dilution. 4 Tablespoons = 60:1 dilution.

That what you're saying? That's the original recipe.

 

[maryjohn]

I think ganja is confused too. Ganja, he is applying to soil, not fermenting it.

I am confused too btw. Just go with your math!

 

[spiral]

Un diluted is fine I used at 4 tablespoons per gallon. Your math is good too rrog.

Anybody else notice bubbles, like theres a little soap in yer water when you add the LB?

 

[rrog]

Thanks MJ. Yes, looking to inoculate my soil medium a week before seedlings go in.

Hey Spiral. GanjaD indicates bubbles during fermentation. JayK says he's seen them as well. Tiny bubbles during fermentation. That what you mean?

And Spiral you use 4 Tablespoons of undiluted, un-fermented yellow serum in a gal of water for soil? I only ask for clarification since that's 400% more than the original recipe calls for. Given that these LAB will grow exponentially, I'm not sure that all my math means much anyway.

 

[ganja din]

I want to use the un-fermented sample I have now, yes exactly.

Essentially you have the same 20:1 dilution as the original instructions say.

Yes, but that doesn't include molasses, so its 1:1:20 (serium:molasses:water)

Then you take that dilution and take 2-4 Tablespoons and add to a gallon of water. 2 Tablespoons = 125:1 dilution. 4 Tablespoons = 60:1 dilution.

Ah, I was unaware of the standard quantity. I use Royal (ml), not tsp or tbl. That is why I gave you the ratios, they are universal. That is, 1:125 is the same amount per gallon either as tsp or ml. Ratio is the standard reporting method. Sorry for the confusion.

That what you're saying? That's the original recipe.

Yes. Except if you direct applying serum you also need to apply food (molasses). Its the same ratio as if you were going to ferment serum into pure culture = 1:1:20

Make more sense now? Sorry!

 

[rrog]

Thanks GD. We're on the same page. I was proposing 1.5ml of raw un-fermented LAB serum per 2.2L =1500:1 ratio

That's the original recipe. I'd like to dump this on medium today. Seems there's a real spread in opinions as to the concentration that can be used at this time. I don't know if I should add 1.5ml to a gallon or 4 Tablespoons (60ml) to a gallon.

 

[spiral]

And Spiral you use 4 Tablespoons of undiluted, un-fermented yellow serum in a gal of water for soil? I only ask for clarification since that's 400% more than the original recipe calls for. Given that these LAB will grow exponentially, I'm not sure that all my math means much anyway.[/QUOTE]

Yes Ive used it like that no ill effects.I know its more than the recipe calls for but I was playin around. The first time I made this shit I had 30 gal! But do watch foliar spraying if the sprays to strong you can burn your leaves, from low ph, trust me I know. Alot of people dont like to check ph. But I do, lets me know where things are at.

What I was asking about the bubbles, was un fermented. Seems when I add my LB to pure water, from the milk stage, or from the storage stage, I get what looks like soapy bubbles on top. And whenever I shake it I get the bubbles. I know it not soap. I store it in the fridge with no molasses, throw away after a month.

 

[GeneticHeirloom]

Oh no! Another Side of the story!

Oh no! Another Side of the story!

So Jay, and others, you will be able to make sense of this much more than I will, but from what I read, maybe LAB isn't a great foliar spray.. and as well maybe even for the soil...

But there is one interesting thing they never mention, the introduction of sugars for food for LAB... So I'm wondering if going with the original recipe might produce different results than this link i'm about to post...

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/...sttea+soilfoodweb+soilquality/3/msg00160.html

All in all, it doesn't say good things. I hope it's wrong.

 

[ganja din]

Hey You can safely disregard what Elain has to say about 'good' anarobic microbes like LAB, and those in EM, etc. Trust me.

 

[GeneticHeirloom]

Hey You can safely disregard what Elain has to say about 'good' anarobic microbes like LAB, and those in EM, etc. Trust me.

KK good to see

 

[rrog]

That was great of you to bring that up, GH. Articles and data are welcomed.

GH looking at your name and sig, are you involved in some sort of archiving of strains?

 

[GeneticHeirloom]

That was great of you to bring that up, GH. Articles and data are welcomed.

GH looking at your name and sig, are you involved in some sort of archiving of strains?

it's a personal obsession of mine, I'm very big on saving seeds, you should see my regular Heirloom vegetable seed collection!

My grandfather was a farmer, and he always advocated diversity and the genetics of your crops, so the more I have the more i'm able to keep "alive" and guarantee that 10-20 years from now the genetics we have available today will still be available in their original form (Like that thread with the BOG seeds). I can't wait for Rez's new releases, that's for sure

 

[rrog]

Man, that sounds interesting as hell. So how long can seeds last?

 

[spiral]

Hey GH, interesting article. This is what confuses me you read stuff like that, then read articles that say the opposite especially about foliar spraying. I find it really hard to find any info on LAB and gardening use. Different strains have been proven to be beneficial against powdery mildew, E coli, grey mold, etc. Maybe she just didnt have the right one.
Im sure its in this thread somewhere but I read an article that stated LAB will eat the dust and dirt off your leaves.

If it wasnt good I dont think it would be in EM.

So I have a question maybe someone could help me with.I have been trying forever to find info on LAB and de-nitrification, anybody have any info or know where i can find any? Thanks

 

[GeneticHeirloom]

Man, that sounds interesting as hell. So how long can seeds last?

Potentially Hundreds of years depending on the method used and how even and perfect are the temperatures/humidity. I've got Heirloom corn my grandfather took off a cob around 1930/40's that would have poor germination rates, but I'd still get some coming up as they've been at the old farm in the cold cellar since he put them down there.