I feel such a failure

[f-e]

Spray mg sulfate..it translocates to the roots.

Yes quick fix that. Results within hours. A good way of bumping Mg to see if it combats these LED symptoms, before committing to loading up the substrate. You need to be careful with soil.

I kinda miss hydro, where you can chuck everything and start afresh in an hour. You never needed to find most issues, if was nearly always a tank change that fixed it.

 

[GoatCheese]

I just know 450w is generally my limit. I see improvement from 400 to 450 but any more and I can't feed correctly. I can get by with 500 but 550 is giving my buds flat-top hair styles. I'm staying around 400 though this run. GoatCheese deserves me taking some notice (I just had 5% more yesterday, but on the whole it was less bud over 40K)

Hah-hah ...Are things going into right direction, mate?

 

[f-e]

I have organocide, which is a fungicide that works by annoying the plant. It's almost 100% PK compound, and in time breaks down to available PK within the plant. I think it would of been 150ppm (my calculator was a bit stoned). Next day the run-off jumped to 2.0 so I can only think it was some sort of displacement. Unfortunately I had also tweaked the light and PK a little, very little. I put a days tank through in one session to get back to 1.5 but, about 1% of my hairs browned off. Right the the window of time this always happens, making me post this thread. It's an 'Oh Shit' moment with a multiple choice of answers. I also flushed away what my roots may of put out and would take back. Some Mg signs also came with the brown hairs. Both symptoms coming hours later after the flush. It's interesting. Though not in a satisfying way.

I found the plant reaching the light (over 70Klux on mine) was the one almost dropping leaves. A neighbour looks like it would still have it's cotyledons if it were a seed. My bad. I just looked to the back (less tidied) row and saw it. I have had red stems coming a few days since the N and P reduction so raised P just 7% and it may of stopped spreading. I used PK, which has strong ties to burnt hairs. It's a soup of coincidences.

Until this yesterday, they were doing well. Really well.

I will look later and see how much crying I have to do

 

[jackspratt61]

I'm currently in coco feeding 2.35ec..135 N..190P..165 K..280ca..zero magnesium..

 

[f-e]

Fookin ell, 2.35? I must say I don't see overfeed, just this suspected sodium problem. I'm gonna have to switch feeds. It's a bit like changing my bank account though, after decades, it's difficult to move on.
No Mag? That I can't get my head around. It's surely somewhere?
People will buck like horses at the Ca/K ratio

Your P might be the highest I have seen. I have been high and only keep low based on the work of others. Feeds we can buy and that. Having had issues with this salt I have had to take note of shelf offerings but my own work will surely have me coming back in your direction. I'm creeping up my P each day already. That Mg though. I'm missing something

 

[jackspratt61]

Spray mg when needed..early before they're rooted can be helpful. MAP foliar after mg is helpful for root flush too. Your plants have needed more ca. Rinse your coco with gypsum when the grow is finished.

 

[f-e]

I have my old coco in pots, in the shower. Every time I pass I put through a fair bit of tap, which is just about hard round here.

I have the option to add more Ca but just see Mg signs. So dose calmag then more Epsom to bring the mag forward. You think more Ca for the coco's benefit, thinking it needs the cec covering, to keep the sodium out? I know it will bump EC but in a quite meaningless way.

Hard to say what my Ca is really, as it's partly the tap supplied calcium. There seems no hard line truth about what use that is. I have 90ppm from additives, 60 tap.

Some pics coming up. I'm happy in some regards.

 

[jackspratt61]

Can you look at the roots?

 

[f-e]

Not the living plants, But I took a shot of the last ones after standing 25 days. The camera really caught the salt, on the worst one by far. The top blocks on it's side, which looks like I could go back to smaller pots.
Then I started washing. First smashed some, soaked it.. looks like coco. Others I then soaked whole. I fished through for a best example. Some looks bound but the shower is taking coco away. It's not so bad.
Perhaps useless to you... It's quite diminished, and a warmer colour than that, as perhaps the pot shows. Difficult.. (the big bit a cleaned off and put there, so lost branching. Its 25 days)

 

[f-e]

25 sleeps



I just can't reach it. This was arm stretched in. The scratch will have to stay

Attached files as above

 

[jackspratt61]

How many ppm of ammonia is in your feed?

 

[f-e]

It's not something I have ever thought about. My base feed gives me 6.5ppm as ammonical nitrate. That's all I can say.

I did use Urea for a bit, but that was last year. I really know nothing about the nitrogen cycle. Should I ?

EDIT: Oh, your relating it to Calcium. I don't know if 6.5ppm is high or low, but do you see a Calcium issue somewhere? I'm missing it.

My P is going up a bit again. I'm heading back to 130ppm. I only came down to see if I could lower my EC but my plants do seem to like more.

You have any pics of what you expect to see around 25 days Jack?

 

[f-e]

128-128-215 today. I may drop the K further as it's almost tradition that PK burns them around here. It's interesting that. Perhaps related to our water. From boreholes in limestone across a few counties.

I was doing ok with about 130P and lowered it looking to reduce useless salts I introduce getting P in. At 107 I had no great days, then at 115 things picked up again. I will look at 130 and see where I'm going.

The close up bud pic looks like high light with the compact top and leaf spacing. I may drop it down again.

 

[jackspratt61]

Ammonia and calcium compete. Mg as I was told is the fat lady at the buffet,very difficult to remove. A 1-2-1 ratio npk with ca=k is your starting point. Work ca and P for your energy..no mg in feed,less N. Raise K as you mature the plant.
Making your own fertilizer using the individual components for npk and micros is best.
Your plants look ok guy but the next level you're looking for begins with working ca and p. In the advanced growing section look up the slownickel lounge thread.

 

[f-e]

I don't think my plants are ok... The first brown hairs came day 24 at about 1% and day 26 they may of reached 3%. This is typical timing, and will see my buds looking done in little over a week.

It seems to come overnight. They went to bed and then got up with over twice as many. The buds are also looking a lot bigger. Pics confirm it. They didn't get the new feed till the morning and the runoff was a point higher than expected.

I have dropped the light back to 400 from the wall. The hairs are evenly placed, not just the very top. The tip of a hair will tinge red, then brown, and the whole hair follows that day.

I lost my datalogger somehow, but I'm guessing 21c and 50% overnight. 21c is almost a certainly, and 47-55 the typical range for week 3. I can see a strain I have done for years refusing the fatten properly. It's going to grow tight spears.

My next advance in growing, is being able to finish a crop off properly
I'm looking at the K as getting more abundant as they want it. For decades I wouldn't use PK as it just burnt them. I would keep trying occasionally, but like others found it just killed them. My base gives me 180ppm. You have that and it's suppressed with stacks of Ca.

Looking back, the salt damage has had me giving them a bit of K here n there. My very first runs on this setup would of been just base though. Slowing moving in calmag but just 0.5ml. That was 22oz every time. Always with problems though. However, I have done a run at low ec and nothing but calmag (on the whole) and still got this. I can't find the answer.

I'm going to the pub

 

[jackspratt61]

Try feeding one plant through fill-in P=K drop all mg and fe. Small amounts of gypsum in feed and raise k as the plant matures keeping k just above ca while holding p steady. Maybe 1-2-2.5 in ppm npk towards the end. Steady balance of micros throughout.
How's your water? Hard?
I'm thinking besides na and mg you may be accumulating bicarbonates as your problem worsens with time. Again,all of these block calcium. Do you have gypsum?

 

[f-e]

9 days ago I flushed heavily, getting the ec down 0.8, using an ec0.7 solution made with tap and 0.4ec of Calmag. I'm calling that my clean slate. Made a tank [email protected] .............................. .............................. ............................. .............................. .150-135-250-157-72


D(day)1 'two 4.75L feeds' with runoff of 0.9 and 1.3 respectively. Loading up the coco.................. 0 gain.......................... 150-135-250-157-72
D2 [email protected] in, 1.6 then 1.8 out (6.6pH6.4) .............................. .............................. .............................. ...+ 2 .............................. 143-129-218-157-80
D3 15.63 19 18 @62/61 .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. ... +3. .............................1 43-107-218-157-80
D4 15.63 19 18 @6 .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. ...........+3................. .... ......... 128-107-215-150-80
D5 14.64 19 19 @6 Flushed half a tank through .............................. .............................. ...................+5 F............................ watered down a bit
D6 12 16 16 @6 .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. ............+4................ .............. 128-115-228-150-80
D7 14 20! First brown hairs. Some sort of flush .............................. .............................. ....................+6 F ............................12 8-115-228-150-80
D8 14/17 @6 (not a great flush then) .............................. .............................. .............................. .....+4 .............................. .128-128-215-150-80
D9 15/19 @6 +4 F T+CM=12

During the course, runoff has gone from 40% to 60% as the runoff increased ~ 150ppm a day.

I guess that would be been 225ppm with 40% runoff. It's a really high runoff volume. With each fertigation having a 15 minutes pause/soak half way through. So it's almost a flush each time. Hmm.

I'm doing this wrong. I need to flush right down again. Load up the substrate feeding with EC ~1.5 for a couple of days, then back off ~ 225ppm when I see my runoff at 1.5/1.6 to keep my runoff there at 1.5. Then I can reduce runoff, if I get in the clear. Though knowing me, I will turn up the light

At a glance, that's half my food not being eaten. A third less being drunk.

I think that's it. Lay out their banquet, then just top up what might of been used. Keep my runoff EC level and see what things look like.

I have fed based on runoff for years. It's just this new idea (to me) of watching the ppms that's had me more interested in the feed than the runoff. It's merging the two..

I have been poking about and may have the answer. 70ppm of chloride. Plants will choose Chloride over Nitrogen. Having great effects on P also. Often people increase feed in these areas to push the chloride problem out, but face running into toxicity as it's often just too high a PPM. It's almost like they are talking about me.
I look at shop bottles and I do run high N and P in comparison, but don't boost K. All because the plants demand it.
If I don't take my 70ppm seriously, I need to fire myself.
I'm not yet sure of levels for us, but 20-30ppm can bother things. I reckon I can live with it, but must recognise it as a foe. My plants might be made of chloride and sodium not Nitrogen and Potash.


I'm not sure what you meant in your first sentence Jack. Sacrificing a plant is difficult though, as it would have to be on the back row. Give me a day or two to level out if I can, then I will let have a plant. For now that seems a step to far though as I need a control plant in a steady condition.


Pub was shut. I still took pics though.

Edit: I pass gypsum mines, and estimate 60ppm Ca in the tap, with 11ppm mg but can't really be sure. Flushing does work. It just seems too frequent. The tap says 0.3-0.4 but It's 0.7 with calmag for flushing.

I need to lower something after my feed and runoff balance. Mg+Fe. Not N or P too much. K ... Oh. K. Pushes out N, but Chloride not so much??

 

[f-e]

Here's them two again, both from the most resistant strain I have. Crit-Kush. Joined by my straight Kush, looking like a spear. It's morphology all wrong. It's generally the better performer and listed 1-2 weeks quicker. Here, burning the fastest. So hungry they are. I bet they were still drinking the most.

The group shot (just a courtesy)

 

[f-e]

Took more looking at number than plants, but 126-130-197-178-68

I have been at 185Ca before, doing fine. Many use 185 here. Counting the 60 tap.
I read 50-75 is best for Mg and more reduces yield. So down from 80 to 68 counting 10 tap.
My base feed gives 180ppm but with their PK 305ppm. Never managed more than 20% of their boost. 197ppm for a look.
That PK boost bottle takes P to about 100 from 40 in that same feeding chart. Many find over 40 questionable, while others supply 200. It's luxury P over 100 perhaps. All reads considered. Mine like it though. Perhaps due to the chloride, who may also be why my N is up on most but not all (by a long shot) at @125ppm

Looking at most bottles. Only my N, P and Ca is high.

 

[jackspratt61]

Na and bicarbonates,particularly in the presence of low Ca,high mg,will make one chase their tail. Been there. Get the gypsum.