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I feel such a failure
- Thread starter f-e
- Start date
I face defficiencies similar to yours, and they also seem unexplicable to me since they won't fix even at 2x dose of nutes evert watering. I am in organic soil, but reading this thread has stimulated my brain to research more into things and I hope what I learned will help me to be better next time. Hope you manage to fix it for you as well.
I am writing this to let you know this thread helped me. Thank you!
I am writing this to let you know this thread helped me. Thank you!
Slight update. Been running numbers around other peoples. Same shit, different day. They will be turning brown by Friday. I lowered the N but absentmindedly forget to put the Calmag in my reformulated mix. Result, 66ppm Ca not 100ppm, and 45ppm Mg not 60ppm. This lowered my feed 0.2 and in turn raised the runoff 0.2 Yes raised the runoff, as runoff always goes up when the feed goes down. Usually for a day, but two days in it's still high and the p&k like deficiency signs moved in faster than ever before. Healthy leaves crunched overnight. I'm getting runoff samples looked at but it's taking a week and a half each time. I can't react to the results. I don't even have any from the right period yet, and it's already too late.
I notice with the RO I have acidification. I'm going in around 5.8 but coming out 5.1 and it swung down mostly in week 2 as the signs came in. Like Mg stripes, then P deficiency. Then at 2 weeks the K like signs most people are seeing. That my last runoff sample, and I had 200ppm of K iirc.
My heads shutting down... 30 years of greatness. Now I can't grow. I think I need to move. I have been measuring soft furnishings for voc's. I have formulated a few feeds that work for other people. I'm not looking in the right area.
I notice with the RO I have acidification. I'm going in around 5.8 but coming out 5.1 and it swung down mostly in week 2 as the signs came in. Like Mg stripes, then P deficiency. Then at 2 weeks the K like signs most people are seeing. That my last runoff sample, and I had 200ppm of K iirc.
My heads shutting down... 30 years of greatness. Now I can't grow. I think I need to move. I have been measuring soft furnishings for voc's. I have formulated a few feeds that work for other people. I'm not looking in the right area.
I got the coco for cannabis figures wrong.
I ran them again with all the things they added at early bloom (8 bottles)
55-50-85-65-20 though the koolbloom doesn't say of it's oxides, so perhaps it's 55-35-80-65-20
58-51-85-58-29 is 1ml per liter of floranova.
My EC keep coming out lots higher. This mix about is the weakest I have seen. I will get the calcium up a bit more though.
I have not been updating, as I'm still running through all the suggestions made. While looking at some wider ideas, such as off-gassing.
The spread of feeds people use is really something. From half dosing commercial feeds like above, to numbers like 225-80-324-190 + bloom boosters. With coco, that K is 400ppm and it accumulates. 400ppm of just K, when the c4c site has about 275ppm 'all in' is quite a difference. Feeding frequency must play a part I can't quantify.
Needless to say, I'm at 4 weeks looking at dying plants again. Nothing to add. The old pics are the same as the new ones. There is an environmental element to this though. As ever, it's all happening in the exact same areas. I can point to the leaves about to die, before they do. The brown hairs hit the same strains at the same times, no matter where they stand. The leaf signs are localised though. I have temp/rh loggers in there now with bluetooth connections. I can't see any real difference. Swapping all plastics one by one. As soon as I have my next ones ready it's coming out and new guttering going in. I used to use 6" round pots, on spaces, stood in the gutters. Since moving to 50% bigger square pots the spaces have gone and the problems progress quicker, from the same start date. The bigger pots have been terrible. The gutter is pvc... but I can't get it out. I have been chopping bits off with scissors lol. I need a tomato plant as they are really susceptible.
St. Phatty
Active member
Grow Lights really can slow down a plant.
I've had plants under a new 250 watt metal halide.
Then put them outside, and it's obvious they like the sunlight a lot more.
I've had plants under a new 250 watt metal halide.
Then put them outside, and it's obvious they like the sunlight a lot more.
Same here with LED. I think the second half of veg is when they really appreciate the natural light of a thermonucular fire, at least mine did. No issues with leaf discoloration under ole Sol either.
St. Phatty
Active member
I put plants out most years. The weather is everywhere. Hot then cold. Dry then raining. Sun then storm. Many times they do better than ones left indoors with their perfect environment. Kinda takes the biscuit
Outdoors works better for me.
BUT I use a lot of cheap rolling garbage cans - which are black.
So when they're in the sun for all afternoon - they get hot.
So I wrap the grow pots in cotton cloth or burlap to keep them cool.
The earthworm castings tub is in the sun right now, with another box on top.
Got to move it so it's in the shade during the hot part of the day.
Just part of the job.
Is anyone a member of thctalk? I have been trying to join for weeks. A guy there, Dal, had something much the same but it's just pics in the wrong thread
https://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-for...ut-Chart/page2
This is the right thread, I can't access https://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?82940-Just-AK47-grow-by-dal/page3
https://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-for...ut-Chart/page2
This is the right thread, I can't access https://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?82940-Just-AK47-grow-by-dal/page3
Have you eliminated the possibility that the water dept has added chloromine? If your method was working, then it wasn't, find what changed.
No, it's never been good here. They have always browned off early. I feel quite sure it's environmental. It looks K related, but I have tried everything there is to try with feeds I think. The water is now RO, which made no change.
My first few did 22 but it's spiraled down to 12. By fall I will be buying weed again, as I won't have enough. I have not done just 12 in my entire life before. I feel powerless. That question of 'have you ever thought about quitting' is getting quite relevant
My first few did 22 but it's spiraled down to 12. By fall I will be buying weed again, as I won't have enough. I have not done just 12 in my entire life before. I feel powerless. That question of 'have you ever thought about quitting' is getting quite relevant
I managed to join that site..for the time being
While not the same symptoms it was interesting. He had split the trunk. He recovered and split it again, inviting milder signs when just feeding nitrozyme. So his edges perhaps burnt as he couldn't get the water or perhaps the K for regulating the stomata. Some sort of throttling. It was more than just the edges though, he had a full range of symptoms I see on a leaf or two.
My bad leaves used to start with the very same leaf, laid on my canopy in an air stream, but air that may of had the least exchanges. I changed my fans about, the problem starts elsewhere, but again the same leaf. Yes, I can point to the bad leaf on my next crop while it's still a seed. Again it's at the edge of the crop. The browning off follows no such pattern though.
Very early on I got another bad leaf in the freshest of air, by the inlet. Then one along the airs route. Both at the edges of the crop though.
Every idea I follow, gets blocked. I'm just not progressing.
Being on 5 feeds a day makes separating one from the pack difficult. His result strongly suggests more feed or water is needed. I know mine are not drinking a lot. 4 or 5 L per meter.
Amazingly I'm still finding things to change. This week mostly heaters. I took the plunge not to strip them out but may do a big defoliation anyway. I'm working on better airflow this last week to. I have doubled it at least. A defoliation will help with that a lot.
My pH is troublesome. It just keeps dropping. A short time on the c4c regime and the runoffs gone 5.4 to 5.0 like it's getting toxic (K maybe outstanding). My tank has very little buffering but it's still far to low and I'm running out of ideas to raise it. Getting calcium in seems hard work, but the likely answer. It's certainly been said. Todays tank is higher.
c4c
55-50-80-65-20
Today
58-51-85-100-29 with 0.2 from the tap and a bit of seaweed. pH 6.3 in. Only two runoffs in the night, 5.0 still and an ec gain of 0.3
I'm a bit puzzled by K. It raises my tank pH but causes soil acidification through accumulation. That makes no sense. I know if my feeds Ca (alkaline) is pushing off K (which acidifies soil) then my runoff would be low pH. However, It's not my personal experience of K's effect on pH. I know using K will lower pH, but accumulation? I need to read more, I think it can't be right.
Edit: My tap is 0.6 according to the lab(s) I have employed. I thought it 0.4 until now. So my last run, going in with low 6s for pH and getting high 5s out is really quite a downward effort from the coco.
I'm latching onto this pH trouble but it's hard to see the picture of why it's dropping. Excess feed looks a good answer.
There is always a counter argument. Week 2 I lowered my feed, and during the week the runoff dropped, until it was lower than that supplied. During which time the issue progressed. The pH was upper 5s then. It really dropped in week 3, when they want more K, which would lower pH and I get my K related signs as very visible leaf problems.
It's as if they start taking K, which lowers my pH to levels that makes them ill. 50% runoff every few hours does nothing to stop this pH drop.
WTF..
All I'm left with is the idea they ate all the calcium. They don't respond to more though.
While not the same symptoms it was interesting. He had split the trunk. He recovered and split it again, inviting milder signs when just feeding nitrozyme. So his edges perhaps burnt as he couldn't get the water or perhaps the K for regulating the stomata. Some sort of throttling. It was more than just the edges though, he had a full range of symptoms I see on a leaf or two.
My bad leaves used to start with the very same leaf, laid on my canopy in an air stream, but air that may of had the least exchanges. I changed my fans about, the problem starts elsewhere, but again the same leaf. Yes, I can point to the bad leaf on my next crop while it's still a seed. Again it's at the edge of the crop. The browning off follows no such pattern though.
Very early on I got another bad leaf in the freshest of air, by the inlet. Then one along the airs route. Both at the edges of the crop though.
Every idea I follow, gets blocked. I'm just not progressing.
Being on 5 feeds a day makes separating one from the pack difficult. His result strongly suggests more feed or water is needed. I know mine are not drinking a lot. 4 or 5 L per meter.
Amazingly I'm still finding things to change. This week mostly heaters. I took the plunge not to strip them out but may do a big defoliation anyway. I'm working on better airflow this last week to. I have doubled it at least. A defoliation will help with that a lot.
My pH is troublesome. It just keeps dropping. A short time on the c4c regime and the runoffs gone 5.4 to 5.0 like it's getting toxic (K maybe outstanding). My tank has very little buffering but it's still far to low and I'm running out of ideas to raise it. Getting calcium in seems hard work, but the likely answer. It's certainly been said. Todays tank is higher.
c4c
55-50-80-65-20
Today
58-51-85-100-29 with 0.2 from the tap and a bit of seaweed. pH 6.3 in. Only two runoffs in the night, 5.0 still and an ec gain of 0.3
I'm a bit puzzled by K. It raises my tank pH but causes soil acidification through accumulation. That makes no sense. I know if my feeds Ca (alkaline) is pushing off K (which acidifies soil) then my runoff would be low pH. However, It's not my personal experience of K's effect on pH. I know using K will lower pH, but accumulation? I need to read more, I think it can't be right.
Edit: My tap is 0.6 according to the lab(s) I have employed. I thought it 0.4 until now. So my last run, going in with low 6s for pH and getting high 5s out is really quite a downward effort from the coco.
I'm latching onto this pH trouble but it's hard to see the picture of why it's dropping. Excess feed looks a good answer.
There is always a counter argument. Week 2 I lowered my feed, and during the week the runoff dropped, until it was lower than that supplied. During which time the issue progressed. The pH was upper 5s then. It really dropped in week 3, when they want more K, which would lower pH and I get my K related signs as very visible leaf problems.
It's as if they start taking K, which lowers my pH to levels that makes them ill. 50% runoff every few hours does nothing to stop this pH drop.
WTF..
All I'm left with is the idea they ate all the calcium. They don't respond to more though.
MedBelgUsr
Active member
From what I could read it seems like you are overfeeding your plants all the time & systematically ....
As a test on one of your seds, could you give it 1/4th of the dose ... I mean : dont put more but just 1/4th .... and let's see.
As a test on one of your seds, could you give it 1/4th of the dose ... I mean : dont put more but just 1/4th .... and let's see.
Lower than the c4c ? That is very low you realise, and a danger with coco. Many consider the c4c feed to be just a flushing solution. As in coco, a flush is half feed. However, I do agree it simply looks like too much at times. Though that can be because I'm feeding too low and letting the K and sodium dominate. This current run I'm not documenting, I did week 2 with a mid strength feed (100-87-143-100-50) following weeks 1s high Ca+Mg. My runoff came down and down, until lower than what was being fed. As the problem came on. That's doesn't indicate an over feed. Though it could of been the plants stripping out all the Ca+Mg which leaves the K more prominent. That week they ate loads of Mg judging from the runoff lab reports. Mg like stripes is always where this starts.
It's a bit late for this run, but I have been thinking how I can have three systems, in order to feed 3 different levels. I'm just not around to water as frequently as they need.
I'm actually back looking at roots. At new root production about stops as this really sets in. They were very white before. Now.. not so much. Plus I have that smell in my tank that resurfaces. Along with the bigger pots making a real change for the worse. I used to use an air pump in here, but stopped at some point. I just put it back in. My tank pH rose a satisfying amount. I have spent 2 days trying to jug them with Oxyplus added. I should of taken pictures, but I'm hopeful that a lack of oxygen is a factor. The rate of browning slowed I think.
I was reading how algae blooms create oxygen in the day, but at night consume it all and can take oxygen levels down to near nothing. If I were breeding such a thing in my tank, then pumping it into my dark coco, It's going to be... an issue. I'm about a week from my Ali-land delivery. Then I can swap pumps to one that can work with oxyplus. Also complete to manifold purge setup, so they don't have to drink what's been sat in the manifold for hours. Which was a third of their feed before I started making changes
In all honesty, my tank was quite bad when I cleaned it out the other day. Not just a bio film. The feed is dark and tank auto-fills. I hadn't seen, or expected to see the bottom during this grow with this new feed. Usually I can though, so it's not the only issue. I will have a DO meter soon.
It's a bit late for this run, but I have been thinking how I can have three systems, in order to feed 3 different levels. I'm just not around to water as frequently as they need.
I'm actually back looking at roots. At new root production about stops as this really sets in. They were very white before. Now.. not so much. Plus I have that smell in my tank that resurfaces. Along with the bigger pots making a real change for the worse. I used to use an air pump in here, but stopped at some point. I just put it back in. My tank pH rose a satisfying amount. I have spent 2 days trying to jug them with Oxyplus added. I should of taken pictures, but I'm hopeful that a lack of oxygen is a factor. The rate of browning slowed I think.
I was reading how algae blooms create oxygen in the day, but at night consume it all and can take oxygen levels down to near nothing. If I were breeding such a thing in my tank, then pumping it into my dark coco, It's going to be... an issue. I'm about a week from my Ali-land delivery. Then I can swap pumps to one that can work with oxyplus. Also complete to manifold purge setup, so they don't have to drink what's been sat in the manifold for hours. Which was a third of their feed before I started making changes
In all honesty, my tank was quite bad when I cleaned it out the other day. Not just a bio film. The feed is dark and tank auto-fills. I hadn't seen, or expected to see the bottom during this grow with this new feed. Usually I can though, so it's not the only issue. I will have a DO meter soon.
This
I have checked my meters calibration since. It was actually 5.9
I just knew it's what they liked. The meter helps me achieve it again. It's getting a bit old now though. I need to fit the new tip I got a couple of years ago.
I found my truncheon to be wrong to. However it's generally been calculated PPM discussed here. With reference to it climbing or falling.
I reckon it might be a root problem. I saw more evidence tonight on my plantlets. With many having half the roots, which were stained. While some had very full, very white rootballs. Almost too white. Which makes the others look bad. Plants looked the same. Roots very different. It's possible the brown ones have had dry-outs, but the white one's were strangely outstanding. Like I have been seeing poor roots for a while.
I want to switch from canna's version of coco, to something with less water retention. Canna is coco peat. It looks like compost. It has no fibrous bits except bits that got in by mistake. Which are quite numerous. Sticks, stones, and I'm waiting for a shoe. Like peat, it's too heavy and wet. I would like to keep my larger (<2L) pots for root space, but they are just too wet. A longer wait between fertigations, would mean a greater root ec change. I'm going back to 1L pots. I have had 4.5oz from a 1L pot in this very system. Not a 1.5oz average.
I do share buckets between bloom runoff and veg feeding duties. So moving a nasty around is possible. After 3 days trying to spend at least 6 hours using peroxide, I have seen the runoff look very dark after day two, then clear up but the runoff EC come up 30%. Any nasties are made of plant food, so I wonder what is coming out. Today I took the gamble of using bleach in the tank. I'm still registering cf9 being fed but 17 coming out. It had been 12
I have been using bio solutions such as orca, but it tends to give me a whiff, not cure one. It seems many people have used bio solutions, then found them to be the cause. We had a product pulled years ago. It was a fancy tube of dried stuff and an activation bottle. It had gone from good to bad, and tests supported that the companies broth had gone off.
Soon as my electronic anti-siphon valve gets here I can change pumps and get oxy in my tank. I'm using sprung valves at the moment, which sap pressure. Limiting pump choice.
I just knew it's what they liked. The meter helps me achieve it again. It's getting a bit old now though. I need to fit the new tip I got a couple of years ago.
I found my truncheon to be wrong to. However it's generally been calculated PPM discussed here. With reference to it climbing or falling.
I reckon it might be a root problem. I saw more evidence tonight on my plantlets. With many having half the roots, which were stained. While some had very full, very white rootballs. Almost too white. Which makes the others look bad. Plants looked the same. Roots very different. It's possible the brown ones have had dry-outs, but the white one's were strangely outstanding. Like I have been seeing poor roots for a while.
I want to switch from canna's version of coco, to something with less water retention. Canna is coco peat. It looks like compost. It has no fibrous bits except bits that got in by mistake. Which are quite numerous. Sticks, stones, and I'm waiting for a shoe. Like peat, it's too heavy and wet. I would like to keep my larger (<2L) pots for root space, but they are just too wet. A longer wait between fertigations, would mean a greater root ec change. I'm going back to 1L pots. I have had 4.5oz from a 1L pot in this very system. Not a 1.5oz average.
I do share buckets between bloom runoff and veg feeding duties. So moving a nasty around is possible. After 3 days trying to spend at least 6 hours using peroxide, I have seen the runoff look very dark after day two, then clear up but the runoff EC come up 30%. Any nasties are made of plant food, so I wonder what is coming out. Today I took the gamble of using bleach in the tank. I'm still registering cf9 being fed but 17 coming out. It had been 12
I have been using bio solutions such as orca, but it tends to give me a whiff, not cure one. It seems many people have used bio solutions, then found them to be the cause. We had a product pulled years ago. It was a fancy tube of dried stuff and an activation bottle. It had gone from good to bad, and tests supported that the companies broth had gone off.
Soon as my electronic anti-siphon valve gets here I can change pumps and get oxy in my tank. I'm using sprung valves at the moment, which sap pressure. Limiting pump choice.
