I feel such a failure

[f-e]

Mulling over the link, I see most internet antagonistic listings are a bit different.
If I raise my ec to 1.9 I will see the stripes that day. I have pondered over fe but Mg has always been my favourite. It seems likely K, the thing I'm openly scared of adding, is the antagonist. This is likely the issue that keeps me from feeding any stronger, and I set myself about 20% lower as in-noticeable overfeed is a yield suppressor.

This is almost certainly something going on. My K is very high right now, looking at this issue. I went for 232 but my P-acid guess seemed excessive so added the potsil giving me 250 but the pH rose to 6.5 anyway.

I think a gradual sodium buildup is also happening but I have no idea where I'm getting the sodium from.



The plants along the front row are a crit-kush out of view, then 3 new seeds of 11? roses fast version. The 3rd being the awkward one I probably won't be keeping. The back row is all kush.

 

[noknees]

I do like the KB lights. My highest run with them was almost 600w with ~ 130-50-250-130-50 and that did 22oz.

have you considered giving organic water-onlyish soil a try (or three) under the KB? if you were doing like 2.5g/watt or something and really dialing in a keeper/mono-crop, i could kinda see doing all the hand-wringing. otherwise it seems like you're mainly beating yourself up instead of enjoying it......

best wishes sir

 

[f-e]

I did try organic for a few weeks I switched to canna terra and used that a number of years. I want to recycle my medium though. Chucking it is always a hassle. The tip made me take about 200L of pebbles out the skip once. All the bags had split. I drove off with a car full of loose pebbles and broke down, in the car I had borrowed. It's just no fun. Coco does burn though, and very quickly if well packed into an incinerator bin with leaves and twigs. Goes a blue flame a good few foot high. Like a Bunsen Burner. An outstanding performance from a garden fire bin.

I'm not looking for something easy that works. I can do that. I'm looking for something record breaking. So it's going to look different. Just not ill would be nice. I did do 24oz the once, which within 7 weeks isn't too shabby. 22 was fair. 16 is a record low for anything this century. I would have to go back to nft the accept that. I realise I'm beating myself up, but rightly so when I have the high bar some have set to get over.

Well I looked at the critical kush. It doesn't have so much as a tainted tip on it. The kush along the back have a couple of lower tips burnt and just one leaf showing my main concern. Then we have the 3 new ones along the front of the shot. The crit kush extends one bud into shot. Roses1 is big framed but lagging and shows one leaf like the one on the kush side. I will be watching the kush one so a pic is moments away. Roses2 shows some nitrogen toxicity on the side of the camera. It's usually a plant in this location that will show N-tox signs, but against a light not the curtain. I was hopeful this will be the keeper. Roses3 has been the main focus here. The issue is still steaming ahead.

I noticed an important puzzle piece. This plant had 4 mainlines? when it went in here, and bending down the top ones, split the main trunk. I thought I might loose it, but it didn't wilt with a little care. The branches above the split show nearly every sign. One one other leaf is showing, and it's recently started to go, like on roses1 while the kush (to follow) is older and totally isolated.

Check out the swelling, it's like popeye.

This really does look like a water movement issue amplified the problem. It's not changed it, it's just bought it forward. This snap was day1, so grow feed with just 21ppm P. 165-21-180 perhaps (I can check) Most of these leaves will of formed around that time and while some of the used coco went in that day just wetted. They looked pinched straight away and the first stripes were just days later. Oddly I had a huge sulphur looking problem for days. Waking up yellow but green by bed. Like all yellow, not just the tops. Bill was saying calcium stops the yellow tops, and I keep looking at this thinking about tomato's. The snapped plant will talk to me in my dreams tonight.
One leaf there in the corner looks really strongly like P, it's in this next pic I need to see myself..

Shadow

More pics?
Group shot

Closer (toxic N signs)

For colour matching

The isolated leaf I'm starting to watch on the Kush side.

 

[f-e]

I could put a shine on them with urea, but that's more N. I have found moving the pH up a nice greening effect but think it's more Mg than N. Without Mg you can't have the green and it soon relocates.

If you didn't know what I was feeding them, would you change anything? I reckon the N is up for debate as it's too high for my new roses favourite pheno. Mg could go up. Maybe I should reduce K to aid Mg. However is all the damage done now, and we are just waiting. I can't shake the idea of calcium but a bump will push the Mg. I can't do both.

I need to wrap one and then set the tank.

 

[f-e]

I could do 143-129-227-157-72
down from 150-136-250-157-72

It does need to come down. The runoff is ec0.2 above what they get now, which is alright but the upwards trend puts it too high tomorrow


Edit: I did do a day at 300w but it made no change.
I could take 9 more off the K using the lower dose of potsil.

 

[f-e]

"Most growers, grow after grow, become much better at understanding their plants and their needs"

Bastards




143-129-218-157-80

That puts the Mg well beside Ca and the K actually depressed a bit. Lets see if they gain a little green. It wasn't much N reduction but if the Mg makes it usable I may come good. They look alright really. I salted the shit out of them at some point laying bad foundations I think. There is no saving that, but progress looks alright. Acceptable. Though a bit chalky, like a pH issue or Mg perhaps. The serrations lifting slows transpiration and I won't discount the plant wanting less Ca in the way. I just don't know how that really works. It's water retention though and they are drinking lots. They may drink more with a lower EC I think. I'm over 60% now

 

[mcattak]

Why are you running your ph so high....

Your in out numbers would be concerning. I always stress when my ph is lower out than in...

 

[f-e]

Using P&K means the plant dropping H+ Ions in an exchange process. The pH will drop. You can use Ca to buffer the effect and P acid is a bit more stable than N acid but a fall is expected.

My coco is well used. While new stuff would like ~ 5.9 mine is somewhat compost. Lots of decaying root in there. So I have to run a bit higher.

My root pH is probably not that bad. To get from about 6.5 going in, to 6.2 coming out, something about 5.8 is joining the show from the root zone. Though I'm not troubled by the numbers, it's the plant I'm watching. If I come lower the green colour fades. I suspect as both N and Mg are less available. I can run a bit lower in veg though, where N use raises pH.

 

[mcattak]

My ph drop always happens the last 2/3 weeks of flower as i ramp up p/k which is easy to deal with because the end of flower is a walk in the park.
I guess your having fun pulling your hair out...You obviously know your numbers...Have you verified ph with a slurry test.
Maybe the coco needs to be changed out..No way i could deal with chasing ph throughout my cycle...

 

[mcattak]

What are your lights out humidity levels...I always feel like when they are to high i experience weird deficiencies especially on the lowers...

 

[f-e]

I just had a joint of clarity.

The K Ca and Mg must a share a cup. You pour in a bit of one and out flows the other two. I just increased my Mg about 10% so it pushed down the other twos availability about 5% each. I have in effect just lowered K availability about 18% while Ca became 2% more available and Mg 16% more. The total ppm drop is about 42 so barely 0.1ec so now I'm looking at calcium as a way to lower ec and help the K and Mg be taken.

I mentioned before how ec1.9+ feeds first push out Mg. As sodium pressures this group particularly, it seems reasonable to presume sodium effects them as equally as they do eachother. So the first one pushed out would be Mg with both Ca and K also suppressed though. I find it very interesting if this is the mode of action, as keeping sodium low will increase the availability of the group of 3. If it all bares true, with Mg my biggest deficiency threat, then I have to wonder. I need more mg, which I have made possible, but should I of trimmed the Calcium. It's 100+tap. Like Canna, but many are ~80ppm. I want to loose 60ppm somewhere to get 0.2ec lower. I have a lot of P but didn't pack any early. I need to spoon it in still. It's really high though. I could have 30ppm away. Some would say 50ppm less. K the flower maker could be better off from the lower cal, I might even get to lower Mg. It's using less calmag to get that Ca down 20ppm would be ~ 15 less N.

Joint of clarity, where did I put you

 

[f-e]

What are your lights out humidity levels...I always feel like when they are to high i experience weird deficiencies especially on the lowers...

Early on terrible. It was day 11 before I had over 50% right through. It was day 6 before it got over 50 in the day. I put down the sulfur mayhem to RH. I was spraying quadrants differently, but just the plain water control was about as good. Later I noticed the K area did bud up more and the P area got thicker with shoots. But for the drastic yellowing with unbelievable recovery, RH seemed the one. I have never seen it before and the only real change is air related. Often I leave the floor fans off for a week, but instead I upgraded them. From 6 to 8. Centimeters So no cloak of their own transpiration hanging around. Them stomata were getting air-lined out.

 

[f-e]

My ph drop always happens the last 2/3 weeks of flower as i ramp up p/k which is easy to deal with because the end of flower is a walk in the park.
I guess your having fun pulling your hair out...You obviously know your numbers...Have you verified ph with a slurry test.
Maybe the coco needs to be changed out..No way i could deal with chasing ph throughout my cycle...

Yeah I'm thinking a new batch of coco and look after it. I have weeks to wash it though. Lazy here repotted the veg plants (offs***) on change over day, putting used stuff in the bottom that didn't get flushed for 12 days.

The offs*** was my realisation that this time and last were the first times I moved up a pot size going into flower. The coco's not usually out of circulation that long, and as established plants I wasn't particularly caring towards the coco's feed state. I just watered in and it took a couple of days before they were watered again. Pinched tips not eager to open up were straight away, and mild stripes by day 4. I generally see stripes by day 7 and it's about when I switch to bloom to get a bit less N. I sometimes switch back. It hasn't stopped it. Though progression is nothing at first. Like it's fixed.

. I have a day2 pic so you can see their size as they sucked it up. Day one they just got chucked in to sleep somewhere.

About to grow the leaves I'm loosing some of.

 

[potty1]

Whats wrong with keeping things simple.?
i do very well with just ionic coco feeds on their own and dont have any problems @7ml a litre...shit, its so easy i dont even check anything anymore lol.
i cant help feeling your issue is pottasium based and to do with your ph and/or the concoction you add ontop of a full nutrient(ionic).
https://growingexposed.com/cannabis-doctor/potassium-deficiency/

 

[GoatCheese]

I could do 143-129-227-157-72
down from 150-136-250-157-72

It does need to come down. The runoff is ec0.2 above what they get now, which is alright but the upwards trend puts it too high tomorrow


Edit: I did do a day at 300w but it made no change.
I could take 9 more off the K using the lower dose of potsil.

If you’re still getting higher EC out the bottom than you put in, then it’s time to do yet another flush. Really try get the salt level down even if it means you have to flush them every day for few days with large volumes of water/flushing solution going thru the coco. Coco is a buffering sponge and it will hold onto the stuff you poured in it awhile till it gets really rinsed out.

If you don’t dare to go as low as 1.2 EC with your feed strength then at least try around 1.4-1.5 EC. Lower EC will help keep those salt levels in check.

:::

If there’s some led radiation damage showing up the plants won’t fix themselves in a day. You may feel the leaves becoming abit more softer in a day but the matte, dried out look will take a while to dissapear. If the damage is so bad you can call it proper bleaching/yellowing during flowering, the plants won’t fully recover before harvest cause most of their energy goes into bud production.

Like i wrote the 400 watts is just past the limit, imo,but not much. My plants looked much, much worse during my first Cree Cob run, fried is the right word here. There is no sign of proper Led bleaching/yellowing yet, so if you want to keep the Leds at 400W it’s fine, but it would help if you can raise the lights another 15-20cm or dim the lights down a 10%.
:::

About your feed numbers, i think your N level is high.. I’m no expert on NPK levels, don’t get me wrong, my philosophy with my BioBizz nutrients is to get Nitrogen level low enough after the first 3 weeks of bloom. ..And i'm still tinkering with my own feed as well, thou i'm getting there

Don’t the old timers say that NPK ratio for cannabis should be 1-1-2, thou it of course changes abit as the flowering goes on.

Going by the NPK numbers BioBizz puts on their bottles, for medium/light feeding plants at the start of week 3. my NPK is 7.8-13-13 ---> So the NPK ratio is 1 - 1.6 - 1.6
I’m mainly concerned about lowering the Nitrogen level after first three weeks in bloom, and so i just try to reach the best compromise i can with P and K levels, keeping in mind the K level needs to be high enough. But my main idea is to lower N for the later part of bloom, in order to get smoother smokes.

 

[GoatCheese]

I think a gradual sodium buildup is also happening but I have no idea where I'm getting the sodium from.

It's the mineral based GHE nutrients where the sodium/salts come from. And the high EC is making the problem worse.

 

[GoatCheese]

filedata/fetch?id=17821899&d=1617349373

Yieks! Don't get electrocuted, bro! Always try to keep your electrical lines above the level where you handle water/liquids, not on the floor when you're running a drip feed system.

 

[f-e]

Whats wrong with keeping things simple.?
i do very well with just ionic coco feeds on their own and dont have any problems @7ml a litre...shit, its so easy i dont even check anything anymore lol.
i cant help feeling your issue is pottasium based and to do with your ph and/or the concoction you add ontop of a full nutrient(ionic).
https://growingexposed.com/cannabis-doctor/potassium-deficiency/

I had to take the 7ml too 10ml when I first moved to LEDs with some power. I'm back to 7ml now as the 40% feed bump was all about the N and Mg I find in calmag now. The extra Ca doesn't hurt, and seems to help the runoff pH. I tried mixing without the Ca but it gets pushed out. Mg isn't listed on ionic coco. It's something I have to look at again with Epsom. It's always been low in the G.T feeds. All I'm really doing beyond this is using the P to regulate the plants size. You get 40ppm anyway which is enough, but adjusting it is still a useful tool.

I think Mg deficiency has been the main driving force behind me loading up with things that has just made other problems. Each I have seen and treated individually. Raising things that I would of been better of aiding by removing antagonists.

It's just the last year of lockdown that's had me really messing about. I hadn't worked out the ppm in any feed until a few months ago. It's a hobby. I can do alright, but why settle for what works, when you could aim for a world record.

 

[f-e]

GoatCheese
The wires are 12v There in an extention lead on the roof for the 12v adapters, but I do confess the level controller for runoff removal is 240v and sits outside the tray in a space where a bust drip line could spray it.

Whats really bad isn't in the pics. The 240v uplighters. Each has feet taller than the trays lip, but they and the waste pump controller are using the 'out of reach' method of protection. You may of noticed the carpet, which sits on quite a bit of underlay, on quite a bit of foam mat. The tent will contain the entire tank without any puddling, and is an earth free zone as a recognised protection method. I can stand in a live puddle and just get wet feet.

I have a water controller on the bench here that I wish to install to kill the pump if the foam mats get wet. The mats being on the tent floor mean capillary action will quickly spread any moisture. So just one sensor should do. This way, if I fall out of bed and die in the night, the pump won't

GHE ? General headeche?

I have a gurt lined up for pizza. I will read the longer reply later.
ec was 15... came out at 19. They can't be eating all my P which could be 1 of them 4. Needs work...

 

[f-e]

If you’re still getting higher EC out the bottom than you put in, then it’s time to do yet another flush. Really try get the salt level down even if it means you have to flush them every day for few days with large volumes of water/flushing solution going thru the coco. Coco is a buffering sponge and it will hold onto the stuff you poured in it awhile till it gets really rinsed out.

If you don’t dare to go as low as 1.2 EC with your feed strength then at least try around 1.4-1.5 EC. Lower EC will help keep those salt levels in check.

:::

If there’s some led radiation damage showing up the plants won’t fix themselves in a day. You may feel the leaves becoming abit more softer in a day but the matte, dried out look will take a while to dissapear. If the damage is so bad you can call it proper bleaching/yellowing during flowering, the plants won’t fully recover before harvest cause most of their energy goes into bud production.

Like i wrote the 400 watts is just past the limit, imo,but not much. My plants looked much, much worse during my first Cree Cob run, fried is the right word here. There is no sign of proper Led bleaching/yellowing yet, so if you want to keep the Leds at 400W it’s fine, but it would help if you can raise the lights another 15-20cm or dim the lights down a 10%.
:::

About your feed numbers, i think your N level is high.. I’m no expert on NPK levels, don’t get me wrong, my philosophy with my BioBizz nutrients is to get Nitrogen level low enough after the first 3 weeks of bloom. ..And i'm still tinkering with my own feed as well, thou i'm getting there

Don’t the old timers say that NPK ratio for cannabis should be 1-1-2, thou it of course changes abit as the flowering goes on.

Going by the NPK numbers BioBizz puts on their bottles, for medium/light feeding plants at the start of week 3. my NPK is 7.8-13-13 ---> So the NPK ratio is 1 - 1.6 - 1.6
I’m mainly concerned about lowering the Nitrogen level after first three weeks in bloom, and so i just try to reach the best compromise i can with P and K levels, keeping in mind the K level needs to be high enough. But my main idea is to lower N for the later part of bloom, in order to get smoother smokes.

The runoff was a lot lower as the coco loaded up, but over the few days the runoff came up and I would like to see it just 0.2ec above what they get. Which was 1.5ec today. The runoff wasn't 1.7 though, or 17 as I prefer to call it. Last night it reached 18 before the mild ppm drop I did. This morning 18/19 settling on 19. Then tonight, 17/18 settling on 18. So it has leveled out cf3/0.3ec higher at runoff, though it's a downward trend. Some tops got 120mm from the lights at 70,000lux or a possible 1500ppfd. They didn't shut up shop though. I got a pic of their pain before raising the lights maybe 100mm. I'm running out of height. I took the colour reference shot again as they may be greener. Some bottom shades are tweaking down at the end like Mg but I suspect N tox is more likely.

All my levels are from pouring a bit of this in that, which only become ppm numbers recently. Most of my findings are surrounding sick plants so loose some reliance moving forward. I had found a nice mix for week 4 onward and was pleased to see 100-100-200 when I ran the numbers. A well respected starting point. I'm heading towards that if I follow my game plan. Looking at N I have been down to 120 at this time but dropping leaves. I will look at 130-135 which might help K which I'm concerned is slipping.

The biobizz site is down so I can't see what your feed is for a ppm breakdown. I think I have about the same N:K ratio but half the P. This after jacking my P up over 300% from the dose in the Ionic coco I use. Coco feeds generally do run lower P. I think because fe is a problem in coco and P accumulation a prime cause of it's lockout. The Ionic is quite high in fe and I bump it 50% more, which while only 1.4ppm makes a difference on the ec meter. Mag also effects my runoff ec quite a bit. It's possible my 0.3ec increase is entirely these two. They conduct well. (newb note: ec=electrical conductivity)

Gonna get the pics scrubbed and loaded. I think most will be self explanatory