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How To Prevent Botrytis, PM, and Bacterial Leaf Spot Disease
- Thread starter Team Microbe
- Start date
No, healthy plants are the result of a complete living soil system functioning in symbiosis like nature intended. I can't argue with you guys who don't put the effort in to your research, it's like trying to teach biology to infants. If they can't comprehend the science, what's the point of it? SO frustrating
It's funny that you've bonded with my two trolls, not realizing that they are not here to agree with you or add any worthwhile information, but are here only to troll me with their pathological lying. Surprising that you are preaching organics, like they were the holy grail, and yet, I get much greater yield with coco, and never any botrytis, PM, or leaf spot disease. It's a simple task to add beneficials to coco, and in fact, coco has trichoderma in it to begin with, which by itself will prevent fungal infections. Soil has all the bad pathogens in it also, which coco does not, so the "battle" is really very simple. Like I've said several times, I have nothing against organics. It's just not for everybody, and it is not the only way to prevent fungal pathogens, as you imply. Fungal pathogens are easily prevented, and not even an issue for me. Also, there is a very good reason there is a coco forum, and not a peat forum. Maybe you should try preaching there.
Retro quit pretending you are not currently getting into it with dozens of posters on dozens of threads. Many people have had run-ins with you. And quit pretending that you are not trolling me. You enter every thread after I post first.
You are the preacher too. But your sermons suck!
You are now my puppet. You dance when I pull your strings.
Dance my little puppet! Dance!
You are the preacher too. But your sermons suck!
You are now my puppet. You dance when I pull your strings.
Dance my little puppet! Dance!
Maybe you get bigger yields in coco than soil, but that's just based on your personal skill set. You clearly have no comprehension in the soil food web, or you wouldn't write off trichoderma as a fix-all and call pest/pathogen resistance "very simple". You don't have anything against organics because you can't be against anything you're unfortunately ignorant to, not to sound like a dick but that's the truth of that matter man. It's a lot more complex than adding this or adding that in terms of microbes - it's about hosting them in the medium itself and providing everything they need to thrive. It's all about feeding the soil, not the plant directly. "Adding bennies" is a hydro-coined mind set when you look at it as an additive, it's meant to be sustained long-term and won't if it's not given a diverse media full of humus and other soil food web constituents.
No, healthy plants are the result of a complete living soil system functioning in symbiosis like nature intended. I can't argue with you guys who don't put the effort in to your research, it's like trying to teach biology to infants. If they can't comprehend the science, what's the point of it? SO frustrating
UMMMM...
YOU REALLY NEED TO REMOVE YOUR BLINDERS & HAVE A LOOK AROUND!!!
There are literally TONS of healthy synth plants featured at IC alone.
Your version of truth doesn't necessarily ring true with the remainder of the planet.
You don't know my education or my experience soooo...
WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU CALLING IGNORANT?
YOU'RE A GOD DAMN FOOL!!!
You started this thread for the express purpose of starting an organic v synth argument!
I never said I disagreed with ya either... just pointed out your flawed assumptions about the dynamics of synthetic systems.
It's good that you are learning organic growing styles & that they have helped you to deal with a problem but...
Yiu also need to realize that organics is not for everybody, nor is it for all situations!
The absolute best thing anybody can do ti improve their grows is to be keenly observant to the point that they can read exactly what a particular plant is trying to tell them.
Most organic grows that fail, fail for the exact reason you mention, soil imbalances. Same for synth grows (nutrient imbalances)!
It's my opinion that Synth does not belong in your natural soils or in gorilla grows anywhere but...
Nature has a bad ass clean up crew as well.
You may consider looking into Paul Stamets research of fungi for further info. (Turning petroleum into carbohydrates is a good thing... least I think so)
The best preventative I've found for fungus gnats are "Mosquito Dunks/Bits".
Best preventative for mites is diligent inspections when they start coming out in the spring, diatomaceous earth & Azadirachtin (sp?).
AN OUNCE OF PREVENTION IS WORTH A POUND OF CURED!
harold
Member
TM - whats your opinion on bio-char? & diatomaceous earth, instead of crustacean meal?
I can't find oyster shell flour, only granules (for chickens), can find dolomite lime though.
Hats off to some of the healthiest plants on icmag
ps why can't we all just get along? things get heated so quickly its ridiculous.
I can't find oyster shell flour, only granules (for chickens), can find dolomite lime though.
Hats off to some of the healthiest plants on icmag
ps why can't we all just get along? things get heated so quickly its ridiculous.
TM - whats your opinion on bio-char? & diatomaceous earth, instead of crustacean meal?
I can't find oyster shell flour, only granules (for chickens), can find dolomite lime though.
Hats off to some of the healthiest plants on icmag
Oyster shells work excellent as a Ca supply. Be sure ti rinse them well before incorporating them into your mix. The chunky oyster shells can be floured in a blender but don't use the one in the kitchen... go get a cheap one for this purpose.
Crustation meals have the advantage of containing chitosan.
Agricultural lime is a reasonable substitute for oyster shell, chemically they're similar enough for our purpose. Chicken grit takes about 5 years to break down IIRC. Like greensand, hard rock phosphate, etc, more useful if you're recycling/no-till.
PS. It's all the ego floating around. High amounts makes people create ludricrous claims, soil out yielding coir for one.
FGI (For General Information), oystershell is mined fossilized crustacean meal, a bit different from ground oyster shells re:grit. Unsure if the CCE would be similar.
PS. It's all the ego floating around. High amounts makes people create ludricrous claims, soil out yielding coir for one.
FGI (For General Information
), oystershell is mined fossilized crustacean meal, a bit different from ground oyster shells re:grit. Unsure if the CCE would be similar.
What do you use for other insects may I ask?
It seems that horsetail is a bit of a wonder-cure, I may just have to go and find some.
I already grow strains that are pretty resistant to mold, disease, and the works (KC33, Green Poison, Special Queen) so I would like to not have to return to using something as heavy-duty as immunox if I can avoid doing so.
Horsetail me do just the thing, however I don't think I'll ever be able to spray three consecutive days, could I compensate by mixing up a more potent spray?
The purpose of spraying 3 days in a row is to get direct contact of the spray on any critters that may hatch within that time frame.
Harold...
before spending your money on a bunch of stuff to put in your soil/soilless mix, you might consider having a soil test done.
With soil testing, you will know exactly what your medium is lacking or in excess of and you can ammend accordinly.
Your local Ag Station may be able to help you get these tests done or you may choose any of several independent soil testing labs. Tests cost anywhere fro $20. increasing as the number of things tested are increased.
If not in USA, check with local Ag departments for testing
before spending your money on a bunch of stuff to put in your soil/soilless mix, you might consider having a soil test done.
With soil testing, you will know exactly what your medium is lacking or in excess of and you can ammend accordinly.
Your local Ag Station may be able to help you get these tests done or you may choose any of several independent soil testing labs. Tests cost anywhere fro $20. increasing as the number of things tested are increased.
If not in USA, check with local Ag departments for testing
While those plants may look healthy at first glance, I can tell you if it has no functioning immunity it is not healthy. Have you ever heard of John Kempf? Check out some of his lectures on the stages of plant health:
http://bionutrient.org/library/audio-archive
Scroll down half way til you see John Kempf 1/2/3/4. All 4 lectures are incredible man. Mind blowing science. You'll look at synthetic grows in a completely different light afterwards. I don't mean to call any synthetic growers out here because I've been down that road, but I'm just here to pass along what I've learned from personal experience and research. You can disagree or agree, but science is science and opinions don't really hold weight when it comes down to it. Most people don't know what a healthy looking plant even looks like. It took me 10 years to see one, and I never had many problems in soilless mixes using bottles. I thought those plants were as healthy as healthy gets... boy was I wrong!
Organics is for everybody. It can be practiced anywhere synthetics can be used, and it will out-perform synthetics every single time (considering each method is performed to it's peak potential). It's just nature's law, I can't explain it any better than that. Until you do the research and discover these things on your own you'll never buy into it... bc the majority of growers aren't doing this. Might as well stick with the crowd right? Has it ever dawned on you that the crowd might be doing everything wrong? Conventional Ag is a laughing joke among the community, anyone who sites a professor always makes a fool of themselves because their teachings are so ass backwards when it comes to real world agriculture. Short chained compounds fall lightyears short of long chained, complex compounds that are able to form from a living soil system.
Those synthetic grows that look so healthy to us are in reality - not healthy at all. They're always on the tipping point, when it comes to both food and water. If you're not there night and day to tweak and try to play God then things go south fast. It's quite cocky actually, to think that humans can grow plants better than mother nature can. Almost on the verge of... dare I say... ignorant
lol ok -
"organic enough" for you?
Besides these plant supplements all I use is Neem/Karanja meal, kelp, oyster shell, crab shell, gypsum, and rock dusts in the soil
Those things aren't healthy to have in your grow room, Neem Oil and beneficial mites like H. Miles are gnats top 2 worst enemies. Neem Oil has more constituents than other "Aza" products, especially cold-pressed neem from India like Ahimsa carries.
TM - whats your opinion on bio-char? & diatomaceous earth, instead of crustacean meal?
I can't find oyster shell flour, only granules (for chickens), can find dolomite lime though.
Hats off to some of the healthiest plants on icmag
ps why can't we all just get along? things get heated so quickly its ridiculous.
Bio char is amazing, be sure to pre-charge it before using though. I have yet to try it but many vets use it in their no-till pots so I'm thinking about grabbing some myself. D.E. is harmful for microorganisms because it cuts them up, just as it does gnats and other bugs. This is no bueno, especially on the top layer where most of the microbe army resides. You should order oyster shell, crab shell and neem meal online if you can't find it locally. Crab and neem work together synergistically against pests and disease, they're a great pair when it comes to amendment mixing. Crab is great and activates the plant's SAR because of the chitin, also supplies calcium. Ag lime is a good 2nd bet, but is harmful to the soil food web in the long run since it crusts up a little bit. I mixed some into my outdoor holes a few years ago and the year after the holes needed to be broken up due to the lime hardening on me.
Drama will always be had man, when someone's method doesn't match up with someone else's their ego's step up to bat and try to hit the ball further than the next guy. It's so silly, we should be helping each other instead of arguing or getting mad at the guys putting effort into spreading info and helping other growers. Some just think they have it figured it out, and until they study microbiology they simply won't become humbled like the rest of us. It goes from being cocky, to being humiliated, to lastly... being humbled. The problem is - when you become humbled you begin opening your mind up to other possibilities, which leads to the truth eventually. And when you find the truth behind something you just want everyone else to know, and you begin to sound cocky again
Your statement has so much irony packed in one sentence that it's almost unbelievable that you haven't picked up on what's going on here:
You're saying that I have such a big ego, that I make ludicrous claims like soil out yields coco coir.
uhhhhhhmm.... HELLO! I could say the same thing for you - Has it ever crossed your mind that your ego is so big that my peat claim is just unfathomable for you to believe? That your anecdotal observations are so much more creditable than scientific research?
You're trying to bash my ego while yours is doing the talking this very moment, and I've gotta say I'm embarrassed for you brother. Claiming that coco out yields peat is no different than me claiming that peat out yields coco. The only difference here, is that my claim is proven already with scientific data gathered from other people besides myself. Where's your data backing up your coco theory? Stop pissing into the wind lol
Neem oil (cold pressed from India) is the backbone to my IPM foliar/drench routine. It can literally be used against any insect, and will aid in protection against airborne pathogens. Plus it has a rich NPK value and is great for all around plant health
Harold - I'm just about to send in a soil test to LoganLabs.com they charge $25
Alright, I'll bite. Always with the assumptions. I never claimed coir outyielded peat, just that ego drives people to make ludricrous claims. Re-read my post if that helps. I would however, like to see anything you can provide to assert your position.
Let's have some information to back up all these claims, it will benefit everyone. Pointing to general information on soil science and ranting rhetoric isn't going to cut it. Try to stick to straight forward answers, don't push the burden of proof on to anyone but yourself, and avoid preaching.
I'd love to see non-anectdotal evidence that peat out yields coir. Actual results, not ruminations pulled from growing in a closet/spare room. Comprehensive, replicable testing with large populations is the only acceptable method, here or in the greater agricultural community. As well, if you could attach a few pictures with information detailing your experience with coir, it would provide insight as to your credibility in comparing the two.
Might as well include why you think Bti is harmful in the grow room, and explain why would I apply a broad spectrum fungicidal oil in place of a narrow range pesticide. I don't think that would bode well for any fungi in my soil.
Your observations on agricultural lime are interesting, but one should try to avoid drawing conclusions from limited anectdotal experience. If you could explain how oystershell flour will not react in a very similar way as agricultural lime, it would be beneficial to all.
How DE is harmful to micro organisms (I believe you meant arthropods) in a proper living organic soil, kept moist-wet.
If you find yourself tapping out a reply devoid of any specific referenced material and full of conjecture and rhetoric, save us all the wasted time and don't bother.
Symphony of the Soil was the documentary you were struggling to reference. I say this for a reason, any statements from you directing me to "learn about the soil/micro-organisms" will be duly ignored.
Let's have some information to back up all these claims, it will benefit everyone. Pointing to general information on soil science and ranting rhetoric isn't going to cut it. Try to stick to straight forward answers, don't push the burden of proof on to anyone but yourself, and avoid preaching.
Try.
I'd love to see non-anectdotal evidence that peat out yields coir. Actual results, not ruminations pulled from growing in a closet/spare room. Comprehensive, replicable testing with large populations is the only acceptable method, here or in the greater agricultural community. As well, if you could attach a few pictures with information detailing your experience with coir, it would provide insight as to your credibility in comparing the two.
Might as well include why you think Bti is harmful in the grow room, and explain why would I apply a broad spectrum fungicidal oil in place of a narrow range pesticide. I don't think that would bode well for any fungi in my soil.
Your observations on agricultural lime are interesting, but one should try to avoid drawing conclusions from limited anectdotal experience. If you could explain how oystershell flour will not react in a very similar way as agricultural lime, it would be beneficial to all.
How DE is harmful to micro organisms (I believe you meant arthropods) in a proper living organic soil, kept moist-wet.
Do you find any of these positions conflicting? Is not this entire thread based upon your own anectdotal findings?
If you find yourself tapping out a reply devoid of any specific referenced material and full of conjecture and rhetoric, save us all the wasted time and don't bother.
Symphony of the Soil was the documentary you were struggling to reference. I say this for a reason, any statements from you directing me to "learn about the soil/micro-organisms" will be duly ignored.
