How To Prevent Botrytis, PM, and Bacterial Leaf Spot Disease

[Team Microbe]

I never said chemicals have a positive effect on microorganisms. I did say however, that humic/fulvic have a beneficial effect on the population, and are NATURAL chelators.

I shouldnt have to explain how humic/fulvic acid benefit the life in the soil. Your name is team microbe, I would hope that you understand how this works. Its not overly complicated. There is plenty of information on the subject.

Coco/perlite+beneficials. No mold ever.
I would call this a positive effect....
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=58363&pictureid=1369852&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=58363&pictureid=1381715&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Keep your plants healthy with a balanced diet, and you wont have to worry so much about bugs and fungus/mildew/mold. Get your brix levels up and I bet most of your problems go away.

While I agree that keeping plants healthy with a balanced diet will result in high resistance levels, I've gotta say that a balanced soil system is ideal compared to soilless mixes. Those plants look healthy though, you're obviously doing a lot right here. Respect for that.

However, in a soilless mix like coco/perlite - we're missing the main components of a healthy soil system. We need humus to provide a diversity of microorganisms, a big role in plant health. Humic and fulvics can only do so much if we don't have a good 20%-35% humus already in the soil. Balance is everything in microbiology, and when one area is out of wack it effects all other areas in the system as a whole. There's no doubt you can grow some healthy plants in your set up, that's clear as you've shown us. But are those plants at peak health? Can they be healthier? Can they be more resistant? I think so. And I think that's a good thing, when we stop progressing as growers we don't grow, we're stunted. I think you can do even better next round, just by incorporating compost into that mix at 30% of your soil volume.

Brix levels def dictate health levels in plants, and I suppose that my claims wouldn't be valid until a side by side with your method vs. mine was conducted. But to my knowledge, a mix in 1 part aeration, 1 part peat, and 1 part humus creates a balanced environment and proper CEC for a healthy microbe population and thus, thriving plant immunity. Microbe populations can certainly be sustained in soilless mixes, but everything is on the tipping level since it's fed via drenching. "Soil" consists of organic matter, the engine behind plant processes next to photosynthesis. The ratio in microbial levels between a soilless setting and an organic setting can be up to 1:1,000,000,000,000. Probably even more than that. After observing nature and natural processes this past year, it doesn't make sense to garden any other way other than bio mimmicking. Simply put - the proof is in the pudding.

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

They may achieve the same goal but they are not the same thing.

Actinovate I believe is used as a fungicide but I've never heard of it being used soley as a pesticide.

I would assume breeding your own active microbes would be better than actinovate, but that's just my hypothesis.

I also use neem oil and a 1% coriander oil, 94% sulphonated canola oil solution and 5% triethanolamine solution for the wetting agent. Works everytime for prevention and infestation elimination.

But I'm looking at commercial production and greenhouse production organic pest maintenance and while the neem will be great for veg room and small plants, such a large grow will require different types of treatments to keep the harmfuls on their feet and not used to any one method. Neem treatments, AEM, EM5 and FTP's should be rotated throughout a week.

ya cant go wrong with neem..i use neem oil,karnaja oil and aloe vera for wetting/sticker agent and its got SA in it and will help to activate the SAR of the plant..gonna be useing the 4 hit combo this year hopefully to induce some outdoor tanks..
ya i got a few strains that im running for commerical as well..what u running btw this year?

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

I never said chemicals have a positive effect on microorganisms. I did say however, that humic/fulvic have a beneficial effect on the population, and are NATURAL chelators.

I shouldnt have to explain how humic/fulvic acid benefit the life in the soil. Your name is team microbe, I would hope that you understand how this works. Its not overly complicated. There is plenty of information on the subject.

Coco/perlite+beneficials. No mold ever.
I would call this a positive effect....
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=58363&pictureid=1369852&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=58363&pictureid=1381715&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Keep your plants healthy with a balanced diet, and you wont have to worry so much about bugs and fungus/mildew/mold. Get your brix levels up and I bet most of your problems go away.

it looks like ur doing indoor growing and i think this was meant for the outdoor/guerilla grower,so u shouldnt ever have to worry about bud rot as long as u got ur room dialed in bc u can control everthing..outdoors its a whole other animal

 

[hyb.0]

I think Team Microbe is over stating the importance of a strict organic regime. I have done both back and forth for 27 years and it is NOT TRUE that plants grown on synthetic ferts are more likely to succumb to pests and disease. Those issues are primarily caused by deficiencies in the environment and the choices the grower makes, not soil biota..... I guarantee, if you are strictly organic and you have f'ed up environmental control, soil biota will not save you one bit...in fact, there are PLENTY of new issues to deal with , in an organic program......Truly, the most important factor is ENVIRONMENT and GENETICS, not organic vs. synthetic. trust

 

[Storm Shadow]

Oxytetracycline calcium complex

 

[smurfin'herb]

Each to their own I guess.
I have done grows outdoors although not in a swamp, but in humid low lying areas, and still no mold. I have seen many times outdoors plants which are not so healthy get attacked and the ones right next to them are thriving with no problems. Ive even seen this indoors as well. It could have to do with genetics in some cases, but when its the same cultivar, its obvious. For instance, I planted a 3 year old mother plant outside that was on its last leg. A very weak and used plant indeed, but i still didnt have the heart to just toss it. I give all my mothers the respect of flowering them out for all of their hard work, event though they dont do well. It was surrounded by its clones that were healthy as could be after a solid indoor veg. In the end, the mom took a beating with the bugs and mold, environment but everyone else was just fine.

@Team Microbe- Sorry if I flew in a bit hot. Thanks for not turning this into a big argument. Most would. Its nice to be able to have different opinions and still respect each others thinking. Good day sir.

 

[Team Microbe]

I think Team Microbe is over stating the importance of a strict organic regime. I have done both back and forth for 27 years and it is NOT TRUE that plants grown on synthetic ferts are more likely to succumb to pests and disease. Those issues are primarily caused by deficiencies in the environment and the choices the grower makes, not soil biota..... I guarantee, if you are strictly organic and you have f'ed up environmental control, soil biota will not save you one bit...in fact, there are PLENTY of new issues to deal with , in an organic program......Truly, the most important factor is ENVIRONMENT and GENETICS, not organic vs. synthetic. trust

Ok I should have been more specific I suppose, that is a generality - saying "plants grown on synthetic ferts are more likely to succumb to pests and disease". Plants are simply able to become more resistant due to heightened health levels seen in a healthy organic medium (teaming with life). Brix levels in plants grown with chelates cannot get anywhere near the brix levels in a vigorous plant with immunity from healthy soil biota. Of course environment plays a role as do genetics; if they didn't then that's like saying "Bro this engine is the best money can buy... the car just doesn't come with wheels... if that's chill.". Obviously there are many more factors at play here than the method chosen to grow this plant but the potential of a healthy soil system is beyond comprehension - it's simply unbeatable and that's factual not just another grower's anecdotal theory.

We can go back and forth and argue what the "most important" factor is but the fact of the matter is that they're all equally as important. This thread is focusing on one of those factors - that's plant immunity.

I promise I wouldn't lie to you guys just out of spite - my mind was blown when I researched more and more about airborne pathogens bc I had to tear down my indoor grow and start all over due to PM so while I wasn't growing I was asking everyone and anyone about it, and eventually was given some sources to study up on by a few reputable heads in the community. They all said the same thing, "plant health depicts resistance levels". I was told to read a few books (Teaming with Microbes, One Straw Revolution) and they opened my eyes to this invisible world of microbes that we all look past so easily. These books will change your game. This is real life science, outside the industry's conventional methods of directly feeding the plant and attempting to play God. This is the most logical way to garden, trust.

Each to their own I guess.
I have done grows outdoors although not in a swamp, but in humid low lying areas, and still no mold. I have seen many times outdoors plants which are not so healthy get attacked and the ones right next to them are thriving with no problems. Ive even seen this indoors as well. It could have to do with genetics in some cases, but when its the same cultivar, its obvious. For instance, I planted a 3 year old mother plant outside that was on its last leg. A very weak and used plant indeed, but i still didnt have the heart to just toss it. I give all my mothers the respect of flowering them out for all of their hard work, event though they dont do well. It was surrounded by its clones that were healthy as could be after a solid indoor veg. In the end, the mom took a beating with the bugs and mold, environment but everyone else was just fine.

@Team Microbe- Sorry if I flew in a bit hot. Thanks for not turning this into a big argument. Most would. Its nice to be able to have different opinions and still respect each others thinking. Good day sir.

Yeah I've actually seen that myself as well - the mother plant does poorly but her youngians all thrive in the same bed. I forget what the name of it is - but I saw a documentary where they stuck cameras down inside the soil to take time lapse shots of the root mass. It showed that cultivars that are dif species will intermingle their roots and compete for food, while the same species (clones) will stop growing their root tips once it senses it's brother/sister's roots nearby. It's like they look out for each other, and respect each one's space in a way. I'm not sure if this has any affect in plants grown in pots (probably not) but for those grown in beds - it's wise not to plant all of the same phenotype together.

I can't tell you why your mother didn't make it since idk if she was in a pot or in the ground next to her babies - but her age certainly may have been a factor in her vigor department.


And back to our discussion - Don't get me wrong, I've grown plants with chemicals and have yielded 100% mold free crops. Plenty of times. But those plants still weren't as healthy as they could have been, they weren't able to store fats or any protective shields on the leaf surfaces (lipid wax) so the environment was the savior in those grows. If that environment wasn't ideal, something could've easily taken over though. I know this because it eventually did, and after I switched to soil and focused on building that microbe army up - I never ran into pest problems / mold again. That's 3 years clean as a whistle. Well not clean as a whistle, I accidentally brought thrips into my room after hardening off clones last spring... but they're already eradicated thanks to the increasing population of Hypoaspis Miles. The soil was so healthy that those beneficial mites just ran rampant on any fungus gnats or thrips or anything else that tried to make a home in there. That's why I promote this style of growing like I do, I know it can save a few people from going through what I went through. If it prevents even 5 growers from going through PM or losing their outdoor to Botrytis then I'll keep making threads on the science behind these processes. Not everyone will agree or get it, I understand that.

Oh and I appreciate that S.H. - I try not to disrespect anyone on here and will give them their fair argument as they deserve, I'll always read your comments and listen to what you have to say. I got in a pretty heated argument the other day with some chick and she just PMS'd all over my shit for a few days... trolled on all my threads and everything because I corrected her once in someone else's thread. Some people's egos just get the best of them sometimes, glad you're cool though brother

 

[hamstring]

TM
Dude love the way you run your thread. Much respect for the maturity in which you answer questions.

I'm over 50 and I still have fallen into the trap of proving my intelligence rather than improving it. Very nice job keep up the good work.

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

TM
Dude love the way you run your thread. Much respect for the maturity in which you answer questions.

I'm over 50 and I still have fallen into the trap of proving my intelligence rather than improving it. Very nice job keep up the good work.

100% agree Hamstring

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

Each to their own I guess.
I have done grows outdoors although not in a swamp, but in humid low lying areas, and still no mold. I have seen many times outdoors plants which are not so healthy get attacked and the ones right next to them are thriving with no problems. Ive even seen this indoors as well. It could have to do with genetics in some cases, but when its the same cultivar, its obvious. For instance, I planted a 3 year old mother plant outside that was on its last leg. A very weak and used plant indeed, but i still didnt have the heart to just toss it. I give all my mothers the respect of flowering them out for all of their hard work, event though they dont do well. It was surrounded by its clones that were healthy as could be after a solid indoor veg. In the end, the mom took a beating with the bugs and mold, environment but everyone else was just fine.

@Team Microbe- Sorry if I flew in a bit hot. Thanks for not turning this into a big argument. Most would. Its nice to be able to have different opinions and still respect each others thinking. Good day sir.

Hey S.H what strains did u have the best success with outdoors in those humid areas? thats exactly like my area 100% humidity from july-mid sept which is when all my strains are in full flower..i always respect what others has to say about certain strains and their experiences and dont read into the hype that 99% of the breeders put out bc we all know they are business men trying to make a sale..

 

[Team Microbe]

TM
Dude love the way you run your thread. Much respect for the maturity in which you answer questions.

I'm over 50 and I still have fallen into the trap of proving my intelligence rather than improving it. Very nice job keep up the good work.

100% agree Hamstring

Thanks fellas that means a lot

 

[RetroGrow]

Coco/perlite+beneficials. No mold ever.
I would call this a positive effect....
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=58363&pictureid=1369852&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=58363&pictureid=1381715&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Keep your plants healthy with a balanced diet, and you wont have to worry so much about bugs and fungus/mildew/mold. Get your brix levels up and I bet most of your problems go away.

Yup. No problems growing in coco with bennies. I start them in Lightwarrior, which inoculates them with mycorrhizae. When that cup fills with roots, they are then transplanted into coco, which is rich in trichoderma, predators to "bad" fungi. The mycorrhizae and trichoderma then work symbiotically to help feed the plant, and to kill off pathogens. Then I always add Florilicious and Florilicious Plus for the humic and fulvic acids, which are chelators and immune system boosters. Salicylic acid is always part of my regimen, as it is a powerful immune system booster. Then, if you want to go to town, add some Great white, and you pretty much have all your bases covered, and double the yield of soil.
Not knocking organics at all. Just never had the need for them.

 

[Team Microbe]

Yup. No problems growing in coco with bennies. I start them in Lightwarrior, which inoculates them with mycorrhizae. When that cup fills with roots, they are then transplanted into coco, which is rich in trichoderma, predators to "bad" fungi. The mycorrhizae and trichoderma then work symbiotically to help feed the plant, and to kill off pathogens. Then I always add Florilicious and Florilicious Plus for the humic and fulvic acids, which are chelators and immune system boosters. Salicylic acid is always part of my regimen, as it is a powerful immune system booster. Then, if you want to go to town, add some Great white, and you pretty much have all your bases covered, and double the yield of soil.
Not knocking organics at all. Just never had the need for them.

It seems as though you're using soil food web methods without the soil though, does it not? You're relying on mycorrhizae and are applying humic acids which all can be found naturally in a soil environment. Great White doesn't contain hardly any endomycorrhizae, it's mainly for woody species like elm/oak/birch trees which form relationships with ectomycorrhizae. Cannabis only forms relationships with endo's, so that's what we're looking for. Check out the ratio in spore #'s on the back of Great White and you'll see what I mean. You say you have the need for "organics" at all, yet you're using the very principals we use in organic settings my man! I say go all in or don't go in at all, if we're speaking logistically that is...

 

[RetroGrow]

It seems as though you're using soil food web methods without the soil though, does it not? You're relying on mycorrhizae and are applying humic acids which all can be found naturally in a soil environment. Great White doesn't contain hardly any endomycorrhizae, it's mainly for woody species like elm/oak/birch trees which form relationships with ectomycorrhizae. Cannabis only forms relationships with endo's, so that's what we're looking for. Check out the ratio in spore #'s on the back of Great White and you'll see what I mean. You say you have the need for "organics" at all, yet you're using the very principals we use in organic settings my man! I say go all in or don't go in at all, if we're speaking logistically that is...

What I said was, I can grow "organically", ie with all the bennies I need, in coco, which is a medium I prefer due to the amazing growth rates possible in a medium full of oxygen. Immune system boosted, and starting in Lightwarrior, which has the mycorrhizae I want my roots to be immersed in first, then on to the coco with it's trichoderma. Humics & fulvics. Salicylic acid. Voila! I am protected from pathogens, and have double the growth rate of soil.
Again, not knocking organic soil growing at all. Just not for me after growing in coco. I say, go for twice the yield, same or better quality!

 

[Team Microbe]

What I said was, I can grow "organically", ie with all the bennies I need, in coco, which is a medium I prefer due to the amazing growth rates possible in a medium full of oxygen. Immune system boosted, and starting in Lightwarrior, which has the mycorrhizae I want my roots to be immersed in first, then on to the coco with it's trichoderma. Humics & fulvics. Salicylic acid. Voila! I am protected from pathogens, and have double the growth rate of soil.
Again, not knocking organic soil growing at all. Just not for me after growing in coco. I say, go for twice the yield, same or better quality!

Coco doesn't have as good of a Cation Exchange Capacity as peat moss does, I think your yields would be even bigger in peat moss for that sole reason. Don't be so quick to choose coco, I'm not knocking it but all I'm saying is that you would be surprised at how much of a difference it would make. All plants have a certain genetic potential, and with that being said - we cannot "increase" yields... not matter how aerated the medium is. Stress deducts yield % throughout the life cycle of the plant, without any stress (virtually impossible) plants would yield to their maximum potential which would be up to 20x more than what we see now. Of course that's not realistic, but knowing how yield amounts work that says that coco doesn't yield twice as much as soil. If anything, it would yield less with a lower CEC. Maybe it yields twice as much as a soil run of yours in the past, if this is the case then that wasn't very balanced soil. The terpene profiles possible in a rich fertile soil aren't comparable to those seen in a soilless setting, that's just scientifically known. So coco doesn't produce higher yields, and it certainly doesn't allow for higher quality (if quality is defined as being as potent/tasty as possible). This is why peat is promoted so much in the organic community.

 

[RetroGrow]

Coco doesn't have as good of a Cation Exchange Capacity as peat moss does, I think your yields would be even bigger in peat moss for that sole reason. Don't be so quick to choose coco, I'm not knocking it but all I'm saying is that you would be surprised at how much of a difference it would make. All plants have a certain genetic potential, and with that being said - we cannot "increase" yields... not matter how aerated the medium is. Stress deducts yield % throughout the life cycle of the plant, without any stress (virtually impossible) plants would yield to their maximum potential which would be up to 20x more than what we see now. Of course that's not realistic, but knowing how yield amounts work that says that coco doesn't yield twice as much as soil. If anything, it would yield less with a lower CEC. Maybe it yields twice as much as a soil run of yours in the past, if this is the case then that wasn't very balanced soil. The terpene profiles possible in a rich fertile soil aren't comparable to those seen in a soilless setting, that's just scientifically known. So coco doesn't produce higher yields, and it certainly doesn't allow for higher quality (if quality is defined as being as potent/tasty as possible). This is why peat is promoted so much in the organic community.

Obviously, you've never tried coco. It blows away any soil mix by a mile as far as yield is concerned. Not even close. I am talking indoor. And, as far as I am concerned, properly grown herb in coco tastes better because it can be flushed to perfection, which soil cannot be. After flushing well and feeding only water the last two weeks, the plants use up the nitrogen and other chems stored in the leaves, and they turn a nice yellow/reddish color for super clean smoke, which I much prefer to herb grown in soil.
By the way, Lightwarrior is peat moss, however, coco gives superior results than peat moss due to it's high oxygen content. You most certainly can increase yields with increased oxygen content. That's the whole point of coco, and why it is such a good medium, and why it out yields soil by a wide margin. Coco in Hempy buckets rocks, and the more you water, thereby increasing the amount of dissolved oxygen, the better it works. As far as peat moss being better than coco, now you are just making stuff up. From your comments, it's evident you've never tried coco, so I can't imagine how you can be opinionated about it.
20 times more? Now you are just talking nonsense.
Get back to me after you've actually learned what coco is about, and have tried it.

 

[Storm Shadow]

Team Microbe.... Don't sweat the Village moron....

Peat moss has insane Cation Exchange and can out yield COCO.. Ive done it myself on many grows ...quality is better also..

Keep in mind... Hempy Buckets + Critical Mass = GARBAGE

 

[Team Microbe]

Obviously, you've never tried coco. It blows away any soil mix by a mile as far as yield is concerned. Not even close. I am talking indoor. And, as far as I am concerned, properly grown herb in coco tastes better because it can be flushed to perfection, which soil cannot be. After flushing well and feeding only water the last two weeks, the plants use up the nitrogen and other chems stored in the leaves, and they turn a nice yellow/reddish color for super clean smoke, which I much prefer to herb grown in soil.
By the way, Lightwarrior is peat moss, however, coco gives superior results than peat moss due to it's high oxygen content. You most certainly can increase yields with increased oxygen content. That's the whole point of coco, and why it is such a good medium, and why it out yields soil by a wide margin. Coco in Hempy buckets rocks, and the more you water, thereby increasing the amount of dissolved oxygen, the better it works. As far as peat moss being better than coco, now you are just making stuff up. From your comments, it's evident you've never tried coco, so I can't imagine how you can be opinionated about it.
20 times more? Now you are just talking nonsense.
Get back to me after you've actually learned what coco is about, and have tried it.

Obviously, you've yet to open a book on real life agriculture

 

[Team Microbe]

Team Microbe.... Don't sweat the Village moron....

Peat moss has insane Cation Exchange and can out yield COCO.. Ive done it myself on many grows ...quality is better also..

Keep in mind... Hempy Buckets + Critical Mass = GARBAGE

I don't, I've learned that you can only lead them to water.. it's up to them when it comes to drinking. I can't get mad because I used to be the same way lol

 

[RetroGrow]

Team Microbe.... Don't sweat the Village moron....

Peat moss has insane Cation Exchange and can out yield COCO.. Ive done it myself on many grows ...quality is better also..

Keep in mind... Hempy Buckets + Critical Mass = GARBAGE

Stormy
Show us some pictures of your peat moss grows.
Oh, that's right, you just made that up!