How To Prevent Botrytis, PM, and Bacterial Leaf Spot Disease

[Former Guest]

when I first started growing, I used synthetic nutrients because I didn't want to deal with evangelical holier than thou attitudes. there has got to be a better way to get people to listen to you rather than being insulting right off the bat. I think that is what the main issue is. more than a few folks said that they had no issues with organics but felt attacked personally before a conversation could even happen. when we quit shoving people away by making them defensive, people will be more ready to listen if they so choose. this came off rather snake oil cure to a few with even one asking for the recipe for mold free soil so they could improve their organic soil when if they're already growing organically, according to this, then they shouldn't be having such an issue. more things should've been taken into account when writing this along with links so the OP looks more legit as some of these claims were quite bold.

 

[Mikell]

Ftscustm, you're not alone Much of what you write is mirrored by many others here.

I want TM to explain how bti (skeeter dunks/bits) is detrimental to the soil though.

So do I. There are some non-target species effected, but on the whole, it is much less detrimental that drenching broad spectrum pesticides/fungicides like neem or karanj.

You don't seem very humble when all you have as a reply are insults.

Right?

This thread, and TM's childish responses pretty much sums up why he doesn't wander into the Organic sub-forum. You'd get eaten alive, kiddo. You can't substitute personal conjecture for sound science, especially as you mock the foundation it stands on.

A primer on Trichoderma spp.

Influence of Nitrogen Fertilizers on Growth, Spore Production and Germination, and Biocontrol Potential of Trichoderma and Gliocladium

Efficacy of Bacillus thuringiensis and Rhizobium meliloti with nursery fertlizers in the control of root infecting fungi on mungbean and okra plants.


Just a few links from a piece I am slowly compiling on the effect of conventional fertilization and pest management on common beneficial microbes. Food for thought. Everything is not as black and white as the evangelists would have you believe. I started this search under the common misconception that conventional fertilizers had a sanitizing effect on the soil, but the results are not as cut and dry as that.

Surprise surprise, life and biology rarely conforms to our interpretation of it. Damn scientists, why don't you conform to rigid idealogy..

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

If one uses organic insecticides/fungicides (such as neem oil and horsetail) and chemical nutrients responsibly, is there really damage done?

If someone uses organic soil (think going and digging some soil out from a lowlying area near a stream and mixing the rich, loamy soil in with the native clay-based soil) and organic pesticides/fungicides and does not pump excess synthetic nutrients into the plants (plants can only absorb so much in terms of ppm, so lower dosages more often is the way to go) and tapers off the nutrients towards the end and leaves the last few weeks for just plain water, how much is the damage minimized?

In theory the plants are using most, if not all of the nutrients provided they're not dumped on in large doses. The insecticides/fungicides aren't chemicals so no worry there. The ferts I use are from JR Peters and one would REALLY have to lay that shit on in order to have salt buildup.

So if the plant uses all of the synthetic nutrients (perhaps my assumption that the plants use most or all of the nutrients is incorrect) and there is no runoff or salt buildup and the plants are given a solid three week flush period after tapering off, where is the damage to the environment done? I am under the impression that the environmental damage from synthetic nutes occurs when they are used in excess and runoff occurs.

It's not like a hydro setup either; the growing medium is completely natural, living soil. It's just not jazzed up with things like castings.

If you can't tell, my scientific understanding of things is rather rudimentary; science was never one of my strengths. If I'm making any false assumptions, please do help me understand. I would appreciate not being referred to as anything along the lines of a fool or simpleton though. People have different ways of learning and understanding things. Some people can dive into balancing chemical equations, Michio Kaku type physics, and biology and can eat that shit up and spew it out. I can't, the shit just isn't easily grasped for me.

I have also, however, met very well regarded scientists who failed the fuck out of introductory philosophy classes. There are also more than a few very complex philosophical questions that underlie many different facets of scientific study that scientists take entirely for granted. A young student of philosophy could ask Michio Kaku a legitimate question that would make his head spin and probably incline him to just dismiss it as trivial.

To reiterate my point: People understand things in different ways. Somebody (like myself) may not be able to easily make sense of your (what I see as, due to my struggle to grasp it) horticultural and microbiological jargon. Likewise, there are countless philosophers that use philosophical jargon that people in scientific fields would ceaselessly scratch their heads at, so do your best not to refer to someone as a simpleton simply because they do not readily understand your way of understanding.

 

[mojave green]

Ftscustm, you're not alone Much of what you write is mirrored by many others here.



So do I. There are some non-target species effected, but on the whole, it is much less detrimental that drenching broad spectrum pesticides/fungicides like neem or karanj.



Right?

This thread, and TM's childish responses pretty much sums up why he doesn't wander into the Organic sub-forum. You'd get eaten alive, kiddo. You can't substitute personal conjecture for sound science, especially as you mock the foundation it stands on.

A primer on Trichoderma spp.

Influence of Nitrogen Fertilizers on Growth, Spore Production and Germination, and Biocontrol Potential of Trichoderma and Gliocladium

Efficacy of Bacillus thuringiensis and Rhizobium meliloti with nursery fertlizers in the control of root infecting fungi on mungbean and okra plants.


Just a few links from a piece I am slowly compiling on the effect of conventional fertilization and pest management on common beneficial microbes. Food for thought. Everything is not as black and white as the evangelists would have you believe. I started this search under the common misconception that conventional fertilizers had a sanitizing effect on the soil, but the results are not as cut and dry as that.

Surprise surprise, life and biology rarely conforms to our interpretation of it. Damn scientists, why don't you conform to rigid idealogy..

we appear to be on similar paths Mikell. for the record i will post this again. this microbe herd is in my hydro rez with synthetic nutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frXYMd-JUfA&feature=youtu.be
they seem happy to me, but i am unable to communicate with them like the organic fanatics do. hell, they may be screaming for bat shit, lol!
on a side note, just because i use synthetic nutes doesn't mean i spray my plants with poison!

 

[Ftscustm]

So much you say I feel.

So much you say I feel.

If one uses organic insecticides/fungicides (such as neem oil and horsetail) and chemical nutrients responsibly, is there really damage done?

If someone uses organic soil (think going and digging some soil out from a lowlying area near a stream and mixing the rich, loamy soil in with the native clay-based soil) and organic pesticides/fungicides and does not pump excess synthetic nutrients into the plants (plants can only absorb so much in terms of ppm, so lower dosages more often is the way to go) and tapers off the nutrients towards the end and leaves the last few weeks for just plain water, how much is the damage minimized?

In theory the plants are using most, if not all of the nutrients provided they're not dumped on in large doses. The insecticides/fungicides aren't chemicals so no worry there. The ferts I use are from JR Peters and one would REALLY have to lay that shit on in order to have salt buildup.

So if the plant uses all of the synthetic nutrients (perhaps my assumption that the plants use most or all of the nutrients is incorrect) and there is no runoff or salt buildup and the plants are given a solid three week flush period after tapering off, where is the damage to the environment done? I am under the impression that the environmental damage from synthetic nutes occurs when they are used in excess and runoff occurs.

It's not like a hydro setup either; the growing medium is completely natural, living soil. It's just not jazzed up with things like castings.

If you can't tell, my scientific understanding of things is rather rudimentary; science was never one of my strengths. If I'm making any false assumptions, please do help me understand. I would appreciate not being referred to as anything along the lines of a fool or simpleton though. People have different ways of learning and understanding things. Some people can dive into balancing chemical equations, Michio Kaku type physics, and biology and can eat that shit up and spew it out. I can't, the shit just isn't easily grasped for me.

I have also, however, met very well regarded scientists who failed the fuck out of introductory philosophy classes. There are also more than a few very complex philosophical questions that underlie many different facets of scientific study that scientists take entirely for granted. A young student of philosophy could ask Michio Kaku a legitimate question that would make his head spin and probably incline him to just dismiss it as trivial.

To reiterate my point: People understand things in different ways. Somebody (like myself) may not be able to easily make sense of your (what I see as, due to my struggle to grasp it) horticultural and microbiological jargon. Likewise, there are countless philosophers that use philosophical jargon that people in scientific fields would ceaselessly scratch their heads at, so do your best not to refer to someone as a simpleton simply because they do not readily understand your way of understanding.

I really haven't worked this system out yet and can't pick sections of quote, rather than the whole. That said they counted many: I feel you. I am a pragmatic person - if you put me in front of the lesson and show me how to do it, thus building confidence...and preventing me wrecking it, my person experimentation can be heavy handed: I get it and then, with time, can bolt the scientific jargon on, so that I may speak in a voice that all can understand.

 

[Ftscustm]

This is too much homework, Sir.

This is too much homework, Sir.

Ftscustm, you're not alone Much of what you write is mirrored by many others here.



So do I. There are some non-target species effected, but on the whole, it is much less detrimental that drenching broad spectrum pesticides/fungicides like neem or karanj.



Right?

This thread, and TM's childish responses pretty much sums up why he doesn't wander into the Organic sub-forum. You'd get eaten alive, kiddo. You can't substitute personal conjecture for sound science, especially as you mock the foundation it stands on.

A primer on Trichoderma spp.

Influence of Nitrogen Fertilizers on Growth, Spore Production and Germination, and Biocontrol Potential of Trichoderma and Gliocladium

Efficacy of Bacillus thuringiensis and Rhizobium meliloti with nursery fertlizers in the control of root infecting fungi on mungbean and okra plants.


Just a few links from a piece I am slowly compiling on the effect of conventional fertilization and pest management on common beneficial microbes. Food for thought. Everything is not as black and white as the evangelists would have you believe. I started this search under the common misconception that conventional fertilizers had a sanitizing effect on the soil, but the results are not as cut and dry as that.

Surprise surprise, life and biology rarely conforms to our interpretation of it. Damn scientists, why don't you conform to rigid idealogy..

Seriously!?!, I met a mind reading penguin and have to find out about a straws role in a revolution: AND now this pride of tame dialogues - God help me and us all: I was hoping for a short cut really.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I was window shopping for nitrogen fixing ground covers (clovers) for my backyard and possibly in the grow room. Innoculants are sold to match the different plants. All is good so far. Then I read that significant nitrogen fixation will not occur unless the plants receive full sun. Will clover as an understory below cannabis with grow lights receive enough light to make a difference without 1kw lamps?

 

[Ftscustm]

Any help with these appreciated, please?

Any help with these appreciated, please?

My reason for finding your thread in the first place is by chasing possible remedies for these complaints, and then stopping to think, and searched instead for alternative solutions: I feel my plants inability to defend herself properly, as if by using bottled nutes I am adding and then taking away in favour of financial gain for some and to the detriment of my plant world. Like a two in one shampoo and conditioner: bloody useless for both tasks and convenient for the lazy and pocket-heavy. My question is, what please is this?



I understand that there is a lot of abuse here, sorry.

 

[MJPassion]

Not sure what that is on the leaf stem but the burning on the leafs look a bit like overfertilization to me.

If indeed overfert...
flush your medium well.

Get a couple more opinions as well.

 

[Former Guest]

I was window shopping for nitrogen fixing ground covers (clovers) for my backyard and possibly in the grow room. Innoculants are sold to match the different plants. All is good so far. Then I read that significant nitrogen fixation will not occur unless the plants receive full sun. Will clover as an understory below cannabis with grow lights receive enough light to make a difference without 1kw lamps?

I asked this recently in the Mulch. Just Do It. thread a few weeks ago. I opted for gathering the stuff wild and dropping it on the soil. There were good points to both sides.

 

[Ftscustm]

Thank you.

Thank you.

Not sure what that is on the leaf stem but the burning on the leafs look a bit like overfertilization to me.

If indeed overfert...
flush your medium well.

Get a couple more opinions as well.

Flushing now & thank you the reassuring of my need to do so.

 

[Microbeman]

the common misconception that conventional fertilizers had a sanitizing effect on the soil

Mysteriously, this line of reason is often attributed to me, despite my pointing out that it is not necessarily the killing of the microbial nutrient cycling continuum to be concerned with, rather than the corruption of the software app.

 

[Microbeman]

Not sure what that is on the leaf stem but the burning on the leafs look a bit like overfertilization to me.

If indeed overfert...
flush your medium well.

Get a couple more opinions as well.

Depends on media [porosity, cec], volume, system utilized, definition of flush.

 

[Ftscustm]

Wow, okay let's have a go..

Wow, okay let's have a go..

Depends on media [porosity, cec], volume, system utilized, definition of flush.

...they are in coir, smart pots 11 ltr, I believe, Growth technology Ionic full range for coco, plus Buddha Tree bloomstarter and then PK 9-18 in place of growth technology PK 14, & a week of House and Garden Shooting Powder.Flush = chuck PH'd, molasses laced water at her coco until it weeps a little and leave well enough alone. The flush will be from now until she is ready.

Thanks for any input

 

[Team Microbe]

organic may yield less it seems compared to most edible crops, but has more nutritional value, so you need to eat less. Most conventional crops are large, tasteless & devoid of nutrition.

actually my organic parsnips were bigger, tastier than any commercial crap ive sampled.

Would it blow your mind if I told you that organic crops can yield more than conventional? It's true...

A plant's genetic capacity can only go so far. We can't "add" weight onto yields basically, because their inherent potential has a limit. This limit is never achieved, bc stress reduces potential every time it's brought about. We only harvest about 20% of our plant's true potential. The other 80% is taken away throughout the plant's life cycle. (John Kempf talks more about this over at bionutrient.org)

So if we can't add weight to our final harvest, why are we pouring on the chemicals? Why not mitigate as much stress as possible and work with the soil food web?

Organic farms yield up to 30% more than conventional farms in the Agricultural Industry right now. The difference between the high yielding organic farms and the low yielding organic farms are the numbers of microorganisms in their soil. It's very easy to get to this goal once some simple science is put into action, and life within that soil is sustained and happy. Properly grown organic plants will always yield higher than synthetic, I'm willing to bet my 2015 outdoor crop on that

I have donned my motocross riding gear to join this thread, having now read it and felt the warmth of informed hand bags at dawn: You bitches may be slappin'!
Seriously, as I entered this world from the ghostlike existence I had thus followed in the shadows, my thinking began to become more whole, more collected and certainly more purposeful. There are many here I respect, and interestingly their views differ. Although I feel the overall intention of what is best for these delights is all too evident. I am an artist and when I have found true connection with my plant world, it is to yours Team Microbe I would like to delve for inspiration and images, Please?- I am charmed to meet each and every Lady but to see them develop... These alone have convinced me to run my sealed room as DWC for this grow and next a mix of DWC and a properly prepared organic soil grow, as a little side by side. For me to paint a horse for instance, I must understand its skeletal structure and how that moves. How the muscles attach to those bones and the ways these stretch in various aspects of movement, The outer covering and finally the beasts nature. I can manipulate any of these aspects to draw out personality and spirit: Organics is my skeletal structure, my armature and my armour all rolled into one. Now I need to test the theory. I feel arrogant for my exuberant arrival into this community and more than a little like a thief for dipping into the collective purse and not paying dues for three years past, I feel arrogant further still quoting myself, however: Why I.C.Mag? It is simple really: Of all the days spent in pursuit of knowledge to better my growing of this incredible green magic, I felt at home here. As if I were among friends not yet met, people who would not judge or criticise but nurture and help. Growing cannabis is as contentious an issue as religion, or politics. Everyone has their own opinion of what works best and some are quite fanatical in defence of their chosen methods. For me growing cannabis has two sides, a scientific approach and a spiritual one. They are intertwined but can be treating separately and the plant grown accordingly. The latter is my preferred growing technique, for some five years I have not checked PH levels, or E.C levels, I have just loved my ladies and they have loved me in return. Through the gained trust I have found following some of the remarkable growers here, I have adjusted my outlook and now include the scientific to balance my overwhelming love for these trees. In honesty, these girls growing for me now have confirmed the rightness of that trust. I cannot tell you how unusual it is for me to take advice from anyone, however it is with a joyous heart that I report, I was right to do so.
As with regular gardening, which is what informs me in my endeavours with weed: The more I learn, the less I know. I could spend the rest of my life....and the rest of this communities lives (if I may be so bold as to borrow them for a moment?) and still not learn all there is to know. An aspect of faith in ones chosen lifestyle connects us with something, and that something transcends all.
These days the most expensive tomatoes here on sale are vine ripened tomatoes - because it is actually unusual to find fruit and veg that has been ripened on the plant, most happens in transit and in warehouses. This leaves an...impression on the food and then we scoff it down. Food is energy, how pure are those nutritious snacks you are introducing. I grew up on bottled nutes, so to speak and they have been invaluable in my learning. Allowing my the grace to learn about this amazing plant before pickling my head with continued and constant learning. It is here, in organic mud that my plant will engage with me properly and move from being translucently thin to boldly opaque. That and sleep cycle gardening...
THANK YOU ALL: My weed is all that you have made us, I toke for a community now and a man I have never met.
Your threads, Team Microbe are like books to me, I start the first paragraph, am hooked, rust to halfway through, regret my haste, savour the ending and feel a little loss...but this book is as living as your soil

Thank you for those kind words! Your 3rd eye sounds squeaky clean, we need more heads like you in the community spreading wisdom like this instead of negativity

when I first started growing, I used synthetic nutrients because I didn't want to deal with evangelical holier than thou attitudes. there has got to be a better way to get people to listen to you rather than being insulting right off the bat. I think that is what the main issue is. more than a few folks said that they had no issues with organics but felt attacked personally before a conversation could even happen. when we quit shoving people away by making them defensive, people will be more ready to listen if they so choose. this came off rather snake oil cure to a few with even one asking for the recipe for mold free soil so they could improve their organic soil when if they're already growing organically, according to this, then they shouldn't be having such an issue. more things should've been taken into account when writing this along with links so the OP looks more legit as some of these claims were quite bold.

I think tone is hard to make out over the computer, that's the main problem here. Someone's kind hearted remarks can easily be confused for an attacking statement, relationships have been ended due to miscommunicating via text messages and this is no different lol.

Perhaps some reference links would've been helpful, I might go back and include those at the bottom of the post for users to read before doubting the science behind it. I think I have a short fuse for those that won't open their minds up to new possibilities, so ignorant growers usually gets a roll of the eyes from me because I've tried to help so many of them understand and it usually ends up in a dispute of their method vs. mine. That's the hardest part, is getting someone to let down their ego and listen to me when I'm sharing something I've learned. Just because it's not from they themselves they will doubt it, even if I quote the text itself. I won't make any statements that I know aren't true, everything I share can be backed up and if can't be then I'll simply say it's anecdotal or from my own experience.

There's a very big misconception within the community - and that's that we're all independent as growers. That's a fallacy - we should be in this together instead of competing against one another's gardens. We gotta let down the guards, and give into our egos. It's that simple... until then there will be conflict whenever there's a disagreement because one person wants to feel smarter than the next

 

[Team Microbe]

I was window shopping for nitrogen fixing ground covers (clovers) for my backyard and possibly in the grow room. Innoculants are sold to match the different plants. All is good so far. Then I read that significant nitrogen fixation will not occur unless the plants receive full sun. Will clover as an understory below cannabis with grow lights receive enough light to make a difference without 1kw lamps?

They do need some light hitting the top of the soil to sprout, which is why tossing seeds down upon transplanting is a good idea. The covers will sprout, and then the plant will slowly fill in the canopy and they'll die back, creating a chop n' drop effect to carry you into flowering

This thread, and TM's childish responses pretty much sums up why he doesn't wander into the Organic sub-forum. You'd get eaten alive, kiddo. You can't substitute personal conjecture for sound science, especially as you mock the foundation it stands on.

Man oh man, someone really has it out for me. How do you think data is established in the first place? Through personal experience? Of course, considering there were controls being used. Which there were in my case, but not everything stated here is from me it's passed on from guys you would listen to without a second thought. But, since it's coming from someone you don't care for - the article lacks credibility. See what's happening here? You're creating something out of nothing with all of this naysaying bullcrap.

I mock conventional Ag, that is nowhere NEAR the foundation that real life Agriculture sits upon. I think you enjoy putting words in my mouth to give you something to argue about, no? You're putting a lot of effort in tracking down my threads, just let it go man. Nobody wants to read us bickering like this back and forth you can blow up my DM inbox again if you really want to...

 

[Mikell]

If you find yourself tapping out a reply devoid of any specific referenced material and full of conjecture and rhetoric, save us all the wasted time and don't bother.

Re-evaluate your response to one of my points and submit anything to the others.

You're sidestepping, and, what's the word, obfuscating the main point here. This may help. Please try to respond to my questions, and those of others with similar concerns over statements you have made. Try and keep the insults to a minimum.

While you're at it, include your reasoning behind your "spidermites can't be resolved with spray" theory. In your own words, if you will.

If you can not understand scientific research, I suggest you limit your reading to laymans explanations provided by those that can. The article you posted in simply not relevant. You have misinterpreted it, a common occurance when skimming for supporting information. Perhaps you can try reading it again, or better yet, post your interpretation and we can figure out where this difficulty with comprehension sprouts from.

but not everything stated here is from me it's passed on from guys you would listen to without a second thought.

That seems to be the issue. Regurgitating information without understanding the underlying mechanics.

For what must be the fifth or sixth time I've mentioned this, please stop trusting your instincts. No assumptions you've made to date have been correct.

While we were arguing through PM (it takes two to tango, sweatheart), I explicity stated if you continue to post false and misleading information, I've no issue stepping in to correct it. You are not special.

By the by, how can I put words in to your mouth, when I've only quoted you directly? Sort of a contradiction, I think.

 

[Former Guest]

I appreciate that. Tone and body language are lacking and miscommunication happens more easily.

Each grower thinks there way is the right way. When you tell them that there way sucks, generally it won't go over well. Think of it like this, for the most part I think it is safe to say that people don't appreciate it when religious folks knock on their doors. People even joke about the cruel things they do like getting the hose because it's unwanted and they're saying that their religion is better than yours. People stick to their beliefs even more.

But what if that didn't happen? What if all those religious folks just did their religious thing and when people have trying times and are unhappy with their life yeilds, then they see the religious people and want to then know the good news? Crappy analogy but I guess I'm saying why don't we just post how happy we are with our plants, what we are doing to get there in and let the pics speak for themselves? People will come on your thread and want what you have. Then they're ready and willing to listen and your time is not wasted with fighting the negative folks. It's all about the delivery of the message; not the message itself per say. Wait for them to come to us and ask how we do it. Let people take the path and those who make it, want to listen. Those who want to fight will get stuck.

My path: synthetic hydro to synthetic soilless which turned into mold. Switched to organic soil and even with my poor soil mix, no PM. While my veg room environment is conducive to molding plants, the organics I use like biobizz and amended soil along with other inputs like kelp and aloe have solved, I repeat, solved my issue of pm. If I could get my environment better, the plants would be even healthier. When the pm got bad I got root rot in my hydro rez and was so upset. I started looking into microbes, aquaponics and then finally I stumbled upon brix. Tried it and despite it being more difficult to understand than synthetics, I could care less and love the way I grow. I still think synthetic growers can have plants that are mold free as a few times a week I stroll by whiteberries thread to admire. I have friends who grow both ways and the ones who grow with synthetics often ask me questions on why or how I'm doing what I'm doing. That's when I get to share without coming off the wrong way.

 

[Team Microbe]

I appreciate that. Tone and body language are lacking and miscommunication happens more easily.

Each grower thinks there way is the right way. When you tell them that there way sucks, generally it won't go over well. Think of it like this, for the most part I think it is safe to say that people don't appreciate it when religious folks knock on their doors. People even joke about the cruel things they do like getting the hose because it's unwanted and they're saying that their religion is better than yours. People stick to their beliefs even more.

But what if that didn't happen? What if all those religious folks just did their religious thing and when people have trying times and are unhappy with their life yeilds, then they see the religious people and want to then know the good news? Crappy analogy but I guess I'm saying why don't we just post how happy we are with our plants, what we are doing to get there in and let the pics speak for themselves? People will come on your thread and want what you have. Then they're ready and willing to listen and your time is not wasted with fighting the negative folks. It's all about the delivery of the message; not the message itself per say. Wait for them to come to us and ask how we do it. Let people take the path and those who make it, want to listen. Those who want to fight will get stuck.

My path: synthetic hydro to synthetic soilless which turned into mold. Switched to organic soil and even with my poor soil mix, no PM. While my veg room environment is conducive to molding plants, the organics I use like biobizz and amended soil along with other inputs like kelp and aloe have solved, I repeat, solved my issue of pm. If I could get my environment better, the plants would be even healthier. When the pm got bad I got root rot in my hydro rez and was so upset. I started looking into microbes, aquaponics and then finally I stumbled upon brix. Tried it and despite it being more difficult to understand than synthetics, I could care less and love the way I grow. I still think synthetic growers can have plants that are mold free as a few times a week I stroll by whiteberries thread to admire. I have friends who grow both ways and the ones who grow with synthetics often ask me questions on why or how I'm doing what I'm doing. That's when I get to share without coming off the wrong way.

I think you hit the nail on the head here Lady, very well said. I think you're right when you say leading by example is how people should go about it. I think I wanted to put it out there in hopes to catch a few people before they underwent any problems, but if any are like me they won't listen until problems actually arise. I'll be less combative when discussing the two different styles of growing, and maybe that will open up more conversations instead of arguments like the one Mikell and I can't seem to end

 

[Team Microbe]

You're sidestepping, and, what's the word, obfuscating the main point here. This may help. Please try to respond to my questions, and those of others with similar concerns over statements you have made. Try and keep the insults to a minimum.

While you're at it, include your reasoning behind your "spidermites can't be resolved with spray" theory. In your own words, if you will.

If you can not understand scientific research, I suggest you limit your reading to laymans explanations provided by those that can. The article you posted in simply not relevant. You have misinterpreted it, a common occurance when skimming for supporting information. Perhaps you can try reading it again, or better yet, post your interpretation and we can figure out where this difficulty with comprehension sprouts from.



That seems to be the issue. Regurgitating information without understanding the underlying mechanics.

For what must be the fifth or sixth time I've mentioned this, please stop trusting your instincts. No assumptions you've made to date have been correct.

While we were arguing through PM (it takes two to tango, sweatheart), I explicity stated if you continue to post false and misleading information, I've no issue stepping in to correct it. You are not special.

By the by, how can I put words in to your mouth, when I've only quoted you directly? Sort of a contradiction, I think.

Just pause for a moment, and take a second to re-read this comment. Dude, look how angry you're getting. So much anger. What gives?

"You are not special" - is that what your siblings told you while you grew up? It's not true, you are special. We must not take this out on other people though, you've gotta learn from this and not be so bitter towards other people - whether it be on forums or in real life. Your jaw wouldn't remain in tact for too long if you spoke like this to someone in person... I can tell you that much lol