HOW MANY CHILDREN NEED TO DIE BEFORE GUN LAWS CHANGE IN THE USA

[moose eater]

I'll relate more stories later from near home, but chew on this one for a bit, not from my own experiences or those of people in my circle here, or even nearby.

How many times has Hunter S Thompson written graphically, sometimes admittedly embellished, about significant drug-induced experiences, way beyond merely toking a joint or 2? Hundreds, probably.

Thompson was licensed more than once for permits for class III weapons.

Read the criteria on the old (or new) Form 4473, as well as the Form 1's and Form 4's for class III stuff.

People have been looking to the Feds for consistency and stability for decades, assuming them to be the source of all that is good and competent, as often as not.. But they are often the entity capable of anything but that in more cases than I can count.

Think on that for a bit.

 

[armedoldhippy]

If someone has a felony they are not legally allowed to own a gun.

that never stops other criminals from selling them one. laws only affect law-abiding people. i disagree with automatically denying 2nd Am. rights because of felonies. that should only apply to violent offenses IMHO. why should non-violent people be denied the right of self defense? or be unable to vote, as well.

 

[Three Berries]

If criminal elements cared about laws they wouldn't be criminals. What do you do with the trunk loads of guns that show up in the back alleys of Chicago? You don't think those weekly mass shootings are done by legal guns and shooters do you?

 

[bigtacofarmer]

If criminal elements cared about laws they wouldn't be criminals. What do you do with the trunk loads of guns that show up in the back alleys of Chicago? You don't think those weekly mass shootings are done by legal guns and shooters do you?

Better background checks and holding the person purchasing the guns responsible would help. Someone somewhere bought those guns at some point in time. And they either failed to keep them locked up and secure or knowingly provided them to criminals. Which would make them criminals themselves.

Maybe this is why gun nuts are so gun nuts. Do you guys have a black market things going where you purchase firearms and provide them to inner city gangs? It would explain a lot about the general stupidity on the subject.

 

[St. Phatty]

Better background checks and holding the person purchasing the guns responsible would help. Someone somewhere bought those guns at some point in time. And they either failed to keep them locked up and secure or knowingly provided them to criminals. Which would make them criminals themselves.

Maybe this is why gun nuts are so gun nuts. Do you guys have a black market things going where you purchase firearms and provide them to inner city gangs? It would explain a lot about the general stupidity on the subject.

Yes ! inner city gangs send SASE's (Self-Addressed Stamped Envelopes) to our local gun store, who distributes them to gun buyers.

When we get tired of a firearm - or get a bullet stuck in the chamber - we just drop it in the mail to some stranger in Oakland !

 

[Three Berries]

Here's Chicago's problem

 

[RobFromTX]

And they confiscated my seeds at customs this week. Damn you Chitcago

 

[mean mr.mustard]

How many more students are there compared to the 11 (not ten) years before?

There's more budget because there's more students.

Schools all over the USA look similar.

It's not Chicago.

It's not SEL.

The kids are not encouraged to care.

It's a nation of insecurity and division.

If people blame and point a finger instead of facing the problem they are likely to just lift the one finger.

The next generation is clued into that.

They're aware that the generations that have preceded them have failed to fix many problems.

We can't expect them to be any better with less to work with.

We're the reason why they don't try.

 

[DoobieDuck]

Three Berries thank you for posting this info on the Cell program, I've never heard of it before, but retired with no children my only excuse. I can't imagine how difficult this will be to manage and then work.

 

[Hammerhead]

Again, felonies and 'violent behavior' aren't the only reasons to deny purchase under a NICS check or the law(s).

The article references (I think) over 4,000 seizure orders, in a Country of ~350 million. Not that the Feds are pervasive, well-organized, or competent.

But your replies seem to indicate a greater faith in the Feds' competence than they deserve. Even based on the article above. let alone the stories I may later expand on, in a safe, detached, third-party manner.

Again any gun store can refuse to sell a gun for any reason. With people blocking the feds from doing their dman job is the prob. Stop making excuses for gun problems only found in the USA and help the GOV to prevent the wrong people from getting guns full stop!!. No common sense gun laws will prevent us from owning guns. The public are dumbasses when any laws are discussed. It isn't that complicated but some make it complicated.

 

[moose eater]

Again any gun store can refuse to sell a gun for any reason. With people blocking the feds from doing their dman job is the prob. Stop making excuses for gun problems only found in the USA and help the GOV to prevent the wrong people from getting guns full stop!!. No common sense gun laws will prevent us from owning guns. The public are dumbasses when any laws are discussed. It isn't that complicated but some make it complicated.

I didn't make any excuses for anyone. I stated what is, and that the government is often times incompetent.

Has nothing to do in that framework with a store not selling to someone based on personal dislike or store-specific criteria.. Gun stores have chased off 'shady' customers before, however rarely.

The government's own vetting system is broken. At best it has been enforced inconsistently.

Those are facts.

 

[moose eater]

I didn't make any excuses for anyone. I stated what is, and that the government is often times incompetent.

Has nothing to do in that framework with a store not selling to someone based on personal dislike or store-specific criteria.. Gun stores have chased off 'shady' customers before, however rarely.

The government's own vetting system is broken. At best it has been enforced inconsistently.

Those are facts.

That, and in my initial post in this last go-round, I pointed to the Right's seemingly disingenuous claims that "it's just about keeping the guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them."

Yet, when stories like the one I linked to emerge, re. the seizure orders filed for folks whose purchases should've never gone through, or for seizures of already-owned weapons based on other denials of purchase from a NICS or new criminal charges of another sort... the Right tends to get all agitated and vocal about 'gun control gone awry', and/or "This is how the Nazis took control of the Jews."

Been several days in other forums watching this brain-dead shit go down.

They get the enforcement they asked for, and then complain that it's a gun grab.

The rules prohibiting who can and can't have a weapon have been on the books since 'forever,' yet they continue to act as though the enforcement of those rules is some new thang.

Hypocrisy.

And irony of ironies, folks here are mostly (I'd bet $1,000) unable to legally own a firearm based on FFL regs. But they want the firearms taken out of the hands of 'criminals'. On a dope-growing forum!!

Can't make this shit up!!

I'll abstain from a more elaborate addressing of criteria contained on the Form 1's and Form 4's for class III stuff that I referenced earlier, wherein local LEO signatures on those forms were never part of the 1968 NFA, and essentially thrown in there to appease localities' angst, re. civilians in their midsts owning class III weapons.

And yes, there's some very humorous stories related to at least one semi-local incident involving an attorney who decided to skip that signature (though at that time he lived in a place where such signatures were very easily achieved), instead filing his own criminal background report and APSIN report (Alaska Public Safety Information Network report; Orwell before Orwell was Orwell) with his Form 4 for a Ruger KMK 10-22 (a stainless, integrally suppressed .22, with select-fire, a 10" barrel, and a retractable wire rail stock), and the hilarious tongue-in-cheek discourse that ensued between he and the BATFE office in Anchorage.

 

[Hammerhead]

I wasn't referring to you specifically. All people need to stop making excuses and help prevent ALL! dumbasses from buying or owning guns. All we got is the ATF, it would be much worse without them.

As it stands now only excuses and false narratives are what we all see.. It wont change until eveyrone chnages.

 

[moose eater]

I wasn't referring to you specifically. All people need to stop making excuses and help prevent ALL! dumbasses from buying or owning guns. All we got is the ATF, it would be much worse without them.

THAT, I'm down with.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[moose eater]

And they confiscated my seeds at customs this week. Damn you Chitcago

Not to mention trying to make it through O'Hare Airport with a connection in another complex, with excess luggage; like trying out for the Olympics when one is a disabled senior citizen.

I think they have hidden pay-per-viewing booths there, just to watch folks struggle to get to the other side of the complex with 2 or 3 pieces of luggage, like some American Ninja Warrior game show or some shit.. especially when the horizontal automated walkways are down.

"There oughta be a law!!!"

 

[RobFromTX]

Not to mention trying to make it through O'Hare Airport with a connection in another complex, with excess luggage; like trying out for the Olympics when one is a disabled senior citizen.

I think they have hidden pay-per-viewing booths there, just to watch folks struggle to get to the other side of the complex with 2 or 3 pieces of luggage, like some American Ninja Warrior game show or some shit.. especialy when the horizontal automated walkways are down.

"There oughta be a law!!!"

Ive always had a hunch thats whats going on at austin bergstrom too. People struggling to get to their flights on time while those TSA hipsters get their kicks watching the security footage on their shift breaks

 

[Three Berries]

How many more students are there compared to the 11 (not ten) years before?

There's more budget because there's more students.

Schools all over the USA look similar.

It's not Chicago.

It's not SEL.

The kids are not encouraged to care.

It's a nation of insecurity and division.

If people blame and point a finger instead of facing the problem they are likely to just lift the one finger.

The next generation is clued into that.

They're aware that the generations that have preceded them have failed to fix many problems.

We can't expect them to be any better with less to work with.

We're the reason why they don't try.

The graphic show a loss of 63k students and 33 teachers over that ten years.

 

[Three Berries]

I wasn't referring to you specifically. All people need to stop making excuses and help prevent ALL! dumbasses from buying or owning guns. All we got is the ATF, it would be much worse without them.

As it stands now only excuses and false narratives are what we all see.. It wont change until eveyrone chnages.

So what we need an IQ test?

I don't think gang bangers buy guns from regulated dealers. It's dumbass thought like that, that restrict the rights of law abiding honest people.

Illinois has the FOID registration system. Doesn't stop the weekly mass shooting that is Chitcago.

And Chicago has Progressive's Soro's backed States Attorneys that doesn't prosecute gun crimes.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

So what we need an IQ test?

I don't think gang bangers buy guns from regulated dealers. It's dumbass thought like that, that restrict the rights of law abiding honest people.

Illinois has the FOID registration system. Doesn't stop the weekly mass shooting that is Chitcago.

And Chicago has Progressive's Soro's backed States Attorneys that doesn't prosecute gun crimes.

Where do you think the guns they buy come from? How would you propose preventing it from happening?

 

[moose eater]

Federal Law Enforcement: Purchases and Inventory Controls of Firearms, Ammunition, and Tactical Equipment

Are federal law enforcement agencies accurately reporting how much they spend on firearms, ammunition, and tactical equipment? We found that federal...

www.gao.gov

https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-18-440.pdf

I initally went looking for past audits that revealed some quizzical losses or 'control' of gov-owned firearms, to include class III items, and even lap-tops with sensitive info on them.

If the average citizen reports that they 'lost' or had stolen a handgun or (especially) a class III firearm, there's about a day or so, perhaps numerous episodes, of enduring questioning, with the assumption often being that the former owner or owner otherwise sold the item on the black market.

When federal agencies (Marshalls, DEA, Secret Service, INS, etc.) lose a class III weapon or other weapon, it MIGHT eventually make it into a GAO audit and related report, with very little hardcore questioning. Let alone what happens if they lose sensitive lap-tops.

But I relatively quickly linked to the reports above.

I think the second link (last link) is especially informative and curious. It deals with the Federal response to persons trying to buy firearms when the NICS check says they aren't eligible.