E.T. evidence thread

[trouble]

trouble, have you gone forward and... even though it sounds too strange to be true to you... researched these claims? If you did, you'd have to come back with a list of thousands of kooks just like Greer. It's obvious you have not seen enough of the information out there.

Yes, I have researched many of these claims, and found most to be unfounded, often overaggerated, and offering not one shred of tangible evidence.

And yes, I did indeed find a long list of "kooks" as you refer to them, like Steven Greer.

Part of my own personality makes me trust people I get the right vibes from. I trust that these people, for the most part, are telling the truth as they believe it to be. I simply must consider that some of these outlandish stories are true.

When it comes to anyone outside my circle of family and friends, I dont rely on "vibes", I base my trust on the individuals actions & reputaion.

I'm finding many people in the UFO/ALIEN community are simply sowing disinformation for attention and personal gain, the same as in every other industry. And it's apparent that UFO's & Aliens have become big bussiness.

Sowing disinformation is a well-known tactic among Intelligence Operatives, Practiced Liars, Con-Men, and Children. As William Shakespeare said in Macbeth, "Often times to win us is to our harm, the instuments of darkness tells us truths, win us with honest trifles, to betray us in deepest consequences." What Shakespeare is saying is the equivalent to sowing disinformation.

If you mix a lie with a liberal amount of truth, there are always a group of people that will lick-it-up like ice cream. This is why I have always found it wise to approach bizarre claims made by the Milton Coopers & Steven Greer's of the world as a Cynic. The Cynic School of Philosophy takes it's name from dogs, Cynos, because they wisely smell & taste things before consuming them.

After reading some of Greer & Coopers works, I found that one of their favorite tricks is using fatally flawed syllogisms. This is when a series of true statemets are presented among a lie, and the weight of all known truths give support to the lie.

It doesn't matter how simple the truths or how radical the lie. For example: Milton Cooper said,

"On February 20th, 1954, while on vacation in Palm Springs, President Eisenhower slipped over to Edwards Air Force Base where, with a delegation of public figures, met with the Alien Leaders, and signed a Treaty with them."

This can be broken into a series of statements which can be validated for truth by anyone:

(1) There is an Edwards Air Force Base.
(2) It's public knowledge that President Eisenhower was indeed in Palm Springs on vaction February, 20th 1954.
(3) The list of delegates mentioned who were in attendence were all real public figures and alive at the time in question.
(4) President Eisenhower signed a Treaty with Alien Leaders.

And here is our flawed syllogism. Though some premisses are true, one is not. Hence the inference is incorrect. Though statements 1 through 3 are all true, 75% of the entire story. The weight of truth of the first 3 statements does NOTHING by way of proving the validity of assertion of statement 4.

Another example of a Steven Greer claim:

"Last June, while on training in the San Luis Valley in New Mexico, I "remote-viewed" the ET's living at the Alien Base Camp under 14,345 Blanca Mountian in Colorado. The Alien elders had informed me that they had just experienced an attack from US Covert Forces from Fort Carson."

(1) Steven Greer was in San Luis Valley at the time in question
(2) There is a 14,345ft. Mount Blanca in Colorado
(3) There is a Fort Carson in Colorado
(4) US Special Forces attacked the Alien's living under Mt. Blanca with nerve gas.

Mix a lie with a bunch of truth and it becomes believable.

Minute detail DOES NOT mean TRUTH, nor does repeating it over & over.

Yet, there will always be a certain portion of the population that will believe anything

The truth may actually be too great for many people to wrap their heads around.

The Truth?

What is the Truth?

An incredible claim is made to have taken place, without any tangible evidence, the bad guys are always right there to begin work covering things up, nameless & faceless so-called inside-sources provide the info, and "the truth" is always in danger of being kept locked away in a secret dark place, where those who propose to be seeking "the truth" only dare tread?






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[sirgrassalot]

kind of strange...

http://www.orange.co.uk/news/quirki...box_left_pos_3_2_link_title&article=newsworld

not exactly E.T related tho

Cool too bad it wasn't a calendar watch. Don't be so fast to dismiss ET's or time travellers. I've never trusted those Swiss, they're always sitting on a fence while the rest tear each other to pieces, their elite banking system etc. I'd check it out for being a knock off though coming from China.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

that was class A post mr. trouble,

I specially liked the part about disinformation, because it shows you do indeed keep an open mind about the issue. Most declarations made by the people who are profiting from the very ufo-related declarations they are making is just a business.

on the other hand, there is such a phenomenon called UFO, which literally and only means Unidentified Flying Objects, this term does not denote any extraterrestrial origin or any origin at all, in fact, what it states is that whomever saw what he/she saw, was not able to identify what it was.

I have seen UFOs myself, cannot explain what they were, but I cannot make any statements about them for sure because that would just be saying lies, and since I have no interest in that, I just describe what I have seen when the subject comes up in friendly conversations, and that is it, I dunno what these things were.

Whatever these things are, probably we will know for sure eventually, probably not... maybe some people right now do know for sure what these things are, and have even told us, but you know what they say, seeing is believing...

peace and good health to all




edit: btw, I still think it would be a great idea to do some kind of seed-sale fundraiser to send trouble to ufo camp, it would rock the house, heck yes, lol...

peace

 

[Kizzattack]

The Truth?

What is the Truth?

It's what my uncle's sister's friend's mother's nephew's friend's cat said!

 

[Crazy Composer]

What is evidence? This can go on perpetually because people like me are completely off our rockers, believe in fairies, wear tin foil helmets, and go as far as to actually think we can believe the accounts of our fellow humans. How silly. This is a difference in opinion, which has played itself out already, agree? I mean, what else can you say? Could you guys please MOVE ON!!!? That would help us wackos get back to out fantasy world. I know, I know, I'm reading your minds. It's cool. Find some other place to make fun of people.

 

[sirgrassalot]

Let me just blow some of this posted evidence off.

Just watching Apollo 8 & as they came around the moon for the final time out of site & contact with Houston they needed to fire their single rocket to leave. If Houston wasn't contacted it meant it didn't fire & they'd be a permanent fixture orbiting the moon. When they contacted Houston on time after the rocket firring the Astronaut says "Houston there is a Santa Claus" maybe not verbatim but close enough to show here how people grasp at any little bit of nonsense to further their belief. We all know Santa resides in Canada's North Pole.

Apollo 11 on the moon quote from the Astronaut "Houston magnificent desolation" Buzz I think??

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

CC, I am not making fun of people, just saying because I dunno what you mean by "you guys"...

and I am serious about sending trouble to ufo camp, if is he willing of course that would be a great addition to the thread, our own real life investigator.

peace

 

[ROJO145]

LOL!! I Love "you guys"!!Lifes to short!! Sorry I got all worked up C,forgive an old none believer

 

[Crazy Composer]

Paz, I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote that.

sga, have you ever seen the other videos from the Apollo missions? Ever see the base on the dark side of the moon pictures? How about the craft that looks crash landed? How about the two pyramids on Mars, right next to the famous face on Mars? How about the skull found on the moon? How about the mining operations on the moon? How about the Apollo video of two astronauts exploring the inside of a decrepit moon settlement? How about the testimonies of several astronauts that they saw massive castle-like structures on the moon? How about the testimonies of HUNDREDS of former government and military personnel, who say they have worked WITH ET intelligence here on earth, that there have been treaties with some species since Eisenhower, that there are 57 kinds of documented ETs species that have visited Earth and the star systems they come from, their politics, their abilities, their policies toward other species, their technology, their biological workings, etc, etc, etc, etc. There is simply way too much info out there that you have obviously never seen, to be so certain that it's not true. You're calling a lot of good people liars when you totally discount these stories. Now, if someone could please intelligibly discount, one by one, every ET experience ever reported, that would be much appreciated.

 

[JJScorpio]

We know your basically a good dude ROJO....... Good to see you mellowed out my friend....

 

[ksac]

What is evidence? This can go on perpetually because people like me are completely off our rockers, believe in fairies, wear tin foil helmets, and go as far as to actually think we can believe the accounts of our fellow humans. How silly. This is a difference in opinion, which has played itself out already, agree? I mean, what else can you say? Could you guys please MOVE ON!!!? That would help us wackos get back to out fantasy world. I know, I know, I'm reading your minds. It's cool. Find some other place to make fun of people.

There is nothing wrong with presenting the other side of the argument. In fact, it is a good thing. Anyone reading it can also have a look at the counter arguments so they can make their own minds up. You disagree with this?

I'm not sure anyone is making fun of you. You seem a little paranoid really. Is it debate that you despise?

 

[sirgrassalot]

Paz, I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote that.

sga, have you ever seen the other videos from the Apollo missions? Ever see the base on the dark side of the moon pictures? How about the craft that looks crash landed? How about the two pyramids on Mars, right next to the famous face on Mars? How about the skull found on the moon? How about the mining operations on the moon? How about the Apollo video of two astronauts exploring the inside of a decrepit moon settlement? How about the testimonies of several astronauts that they saw massive castle-like structures on the moon? How about the testimonies of HUNDREDS of former government and military personnel, who say they have worked WITH ET intelligence here on earth, that there have been treaties with some species since Eisenhower, that there are 57 kinds of documented ETs species that have visited Earth and the star systems they come from, their politics, their abilities, their policies toward other species, their technology, their biological workings, etc, etc, etc, etc. There is simply way too much info out there that you have obviously never seen, to be so certain that it's not true. You're calling a lot of good people liars when you totally discount these stories. Now, if someone could please intelligibly discount, one by one, every ET experience ever reported, that would be much appreciated.

There's a lot there but most is BS starting from the mars rocks that resemble a face. I don't have that much time tonight. Triple shifting here at the office this month. I'll get to a few if the time presents itself. I had a GF who took a time & management course & its really paying off for me.

You can in the mean time post links to each of your questions so we don't have to track it all down, images etc. Recent ones eH, that's what I'll be using. Exact quotes like this "castle-like structures" in context we'll need too. Treaties are usually documented & usually not worth the paper they're written on, we'll need those. Anything to do with the disclosure project I won't waste my time on anymore, its a lot of who shot John.

 

[icmag.is.#1]

hey, where did the video go that I posted?

It was not anti-ufo or anything of that nature what happened?

 

[Crazy Composer]

Don't know... I haven't touched a thing.

 

[icmag.is.#1]

well that's odd Ill search again and see if i overlooked it

EDIT:

Oops I must be going crazy! I found it right where I left it.

Sorry about the confusion

 

[Crazy Composer]

The other side of the argument is good. Disagreeing is not the issue. Disagreeing respectfully is the objective we're still shooting for. Most posts are totally fine.

I never cared if someone tried to make me feel dumb, I know I am an idiot. I'm just trying to make a respectful place for people to share their experiences and ideas.

Also, having so many people repeating their disbelief is redundant and has stopped at least two (that I know of) people from sharing their experiences because they KNOW they will get railed for telling their stories. That's what I have been trying to avoid this whole time, people not feeling welcome to share their experiences.

On another note... can we agree that, of the millions of sightings and other experiences... all it takes is ONE of them to be true, to prove the point?

There is nothing wrong with presenting the other side of the argument. In fact, it is a good thing. Anyone reading it can also have a look at the counter arguments so they can make their own minds up. You disagree with this?

I'm not sure anyone is making fun of you. You seem a little paranoid really. Is it debate that you despise?

 

[Crazy Composer]

Got excited there for a minute, eh?

 

[icmag.is.#1]

I did indeed get a bit excited! I thought someone must of not liked the UFO video so they deleted it!

Now we know it was just a severe case of scrolling to fast

 

[trouble]

The other side of the argument is good. Disagreeing is not the issue. Disagreeing respectfully is the objective we're still shooting for. Most posts are totally fine.

I never cared if someone tried to make me feel dumb, I know I am an idiot. I'm just trying to make a respectful place for people to share their experiences and ideas.

Also, having so many people repeating their disbelief is redundant and has stopped at least two (that I know of) people from sharing their experiences because they KNOW they will get railed for telling their stories. That's what I have been trying to avoid this whole time, people not feeling welcome to share their experiences.

On another note... can we agree that, of the millions of sightings and other experiences... all it takes is ONE of them to be true, to prove the point?

CC, for what it's worth, I dont find you to be dumb at all, in fact, anyone thats be around here for any length of time knows that isn't the case with you.

I've always thought of you as a sharp, kind person, good family man & father. Qualities in ones character that are much more significant than ones UFO & Alien beliefs.


Brother Paz, thanks for the offer to send me to UFO Camp, however, I dont really have the time, not even for a weekend. What little free time I have these days are spent on the golf course, and trying to keep the lady happy.

I would however consider sponsoring you to go to UFO Camp if you care to give it a go?





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[ksac]

"Ever see the base on the dark side of the moon pictures?"

For one, there is no dark side of the moon. Both halves are illuminated equally. It's actually called the far side of the moon. Is there any specific picture you had in mind? I didn't find the one I saw to be very interesting. Just looked blurry.

"How about the two pyramids on Mars, right next to the famous face on Mars?"

Are you talking about this?

Are you sure those are pyramids? Are you sure that's a face? Or do they just look like those things?

"How about the skull found on the moon?"

This?

Are you sure it doesn't just look like a skull? And how can you be?

I seriously suggest reading some psychology text. Specifically how the brain recognizes patterns and why it is efficient yet flawed. Basically, our brains have developed to recognize certain shapes, especially faces even though we see them in places they aren't. It's been beneficial towards our evolution. Remember, the world we experience is our brain's interpretation of the world. It creates the picture using the information from our sense organs.

"Apollo video of two astronauts exploring the inside of a decrepit moon settlement"

I can't seem to find this video. Can you point me towards it?

"Now, if someone could please intelligibly discount, one by one, every ET experience ever reported, that would be much appreciated."

Why? All you have to do is find ONE proof that aliens have visited us. That's it. You made the claim that UFOs are aliens, it's up to you to provide the proof. If scientist had to go around disproving every possible thing, we wouldn't get anywhere. And even if someone had the time to disprove every claim, the obvious retort would be: "it was covered up by the government". It's a cheap cop out.

I suggest you research logic and how truths are inferred, what counts as bad logic and logical fallacies. If you're looking for the truth you should at least know how to approach the problem. People have thought about this stuff for thousands of years so people like us don't have to. Most of the work has been done and the tools needed for truth seeking are all there. We just have to learn it and use it.