TerpeneDream
Active member
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it
-George Santayana
-George Santayana
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CANNABIS DNA PROJECT
- Thread starter Sam_Skunkman
- Start date
SpaceBros.
Member
Now that there is a pretty impressive and informative study! Interesting to see NLD has more CBD than BLD. Possibly due to modern artificial selection. Also that hemp has the highest concentration of the terpene, myrcene. As expected NLD is more closely related to hemp than BLD.
Any experience with the delta 4 & 8 THC cannabinoids Sam?
My guess is that Robert Clarke had given some of his varieties he personally collected, as did Sam, then all other samples of similar origin submitted would then be labeled with either a number or letter or letter number sequencing and then compared to known types from the same areas. This would be able to pinpoint if same sample 1425 claiming to be a thai is related to thais of known origin or is it just something that got called thai, if it is not, what genetics is it related to? Then you would be able to say sample 1425 is actually say 1425 "thai" - Oaxacan if thats what the results show or sample 12925 "haze" is actually 12925 "haze" south indian kerela and so forth.
My point being that when examined and compared to genetics of known origin, it can paint a picture of provenance of certain samples provided, prehaps certain areas of thailand, mexico, hawaii, brazil etc had seeds imported from different areas say within 100 miles the so called landrace may be derived from african and at the other end from india. Then all the modern hybrids what makes up their genes did the brazilian breeder x used, called the same name as what breeder y used actually the same even though it says the same name, prehaps they are not. Useful data when you think about breeding huge populations for certain traits, terpenes, different compounds, waxy cutiles, resin glands for hashish making, compound rich leaves that make better edibles etc.
I know a little, that is not an oversight as the amount I know is extremely limited, int he field of genetic research and breeding, these genetic maps and markers will ultimately produce better stable hybrids with predictable results much quicker than before. For instance you want high limonene, but moderate thc, high cbd, low cbn, you find a male or female that contains these all but the terpene so you have a male or female to cross with that has high limonene, but will they combine well, studying how these genes are transferred within crosses of different varieties, male to female, female to male, female to female, will be able to take out a genetic map and be more likely to make the successful cross and variety without having to cross and grow large amounts of seeds to get the result you desire, you would be able to make an educated guess to what the probable outcome would be even if never growing the variety before but possessing the genetic mapping. Now this is just what I understood and I may have understood wrong, there is still more to it but to me if this is where the breeding is going (10-20-30 years from now) you won't be able to either decide what you want or you will just have varieties that are very similar to what your ideal is, but likely it will be both cases, who knows you may be able to call up a lab one day and give them the recipe of compounds you want in your variety and they make it for you and you get it once they are done, anything is possible.
My point being that when examined and compared to genetics of known origin, it can paint a picture of provenance of certain samples provided, prehaps certain areas of thailand, mexico, hawaii, brazil etc had seeds imported from different areas say within 100 miles the so called landrace may be derived from african and at the other end from india. Then all the modern hybrids what makes up their genes did the brazilian breeder x used, called the same name as what breeder y used actually the same even though it says the same name, prehaps they are not. Useful data when you think about breeding huge populations for certain traits, terpenes, different compounds, waxy cutiles, resin glands for hashish making, compound rich leaves that make better edibles etc.
I know a little, that is not an oversight as the amount I know is extremely limited, int he field of genetic research and breeding, these genetic maps and markers will ultimately produce better stable hybrids with predictable results much quicker than before. For instance you want high limonene, but moderate thc, high cbd, low cbn, you find a male or female that contains these all but the terpene so you have a male or female to cross with that has high limonene, but will they combine well, studying how these genes are transferred within crosses of different varieties, male to female, female to male, female to female, will be able to take out a genetic map and be more likely to make the successful cross and variety without having to cross and grow large amounts of seeds to get the result you desire, you would be able to make an educated guess to what the probable outcome would be even if never growing the variety before but possessing the genetic mapping. Now this is just what I understood and I may have understood wrong, there is still more to it but to me if this is where the breeding is going (10-20-30 years from now) you won't be able to either decide what you want or you will just have varieties that are very similar to what your ideal is, but likely it will be both cases, who knows you may be able to call up a lab one day and give them the recipe of compounds you want in your variety and they make it for you and you get it once they are done, anything is possible.
Funny how the people that did not donate anything whine the loudest.
I agree the work has taken longer then we planned but we now have next generation DNA Gene sequencing equipment in house at Phylos and analysis will proceed much faster. I will be posting the results so far, as soon as I can, when Phylos allows me to. Maybe you should try and do your own DNA work rather then complain about something you have nothing to do with?
I am as frustrated as any donator, I want to see the results as well. I have given more samples then anyone, I only expect information in return.
But I know this is no scam, me and Rob are very serious about the work and will see it to the end. And we are committed to share the data. We want to show relationships and evolution in Cannabis and a Cannabis family tree is a good start. Our collection methods may depend on others to help collect and tell the truth about what they did and where and when but what other choice do we have? I suspect a few thousand+ landrace samples will reveal a lot, be they drug, hemp or wild. But at least we are trying.
I welcome help from anyone that has a landrace, we want them, even a dead seed is useful for the DNA info. We can use a live seed, we don't grow them we just sequence the DNA, from a seed, dry leaf, pollen.....
-SamS
I agree the work has taken longer then we planned but we now have next generation DNA Gene sequencing equipment in house at Phylos and analysis will proceed much faster. I will be posting the results so far, as soon as I can, when Phylos allows me to. Maybe you should try and do your own DNA work rather then complain about something you have nothing to do with?
I am as frustrated as any donator, I want to see the results as well. I have given more samples then anyone, I only expect information in return.
But I know this is no scam, me and Rob are very serious about the work and will see it to the end. And we are committed to share the data. We want to show relationships and evolution in Cannabis and a Cannabis family tree is a good start. Our collection methods may depend on others to help collect and tell the truth about what they did and where and when but what other choice do we have? I suspect a few thousand+ landrace samples will reveal a lot, be they drug, hemp or wild. But at least we are trying.
I welcome help from anyone that has a landrace, we want them, even a dead seed is useful for the DNA info. We can use a live seed, we don't grow them we just sequence the DNA, from a seed, dry leaf, pollen.....
-SamS
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Kaspi,
Keep collecting, and I can send you a list of questions to be answered for each accession, just send me your email. Or look at post #16 in this thread, I do have a slightly updated version.
We want any landrace you can collect.
-SamS
Keep collecting, and I can send you a list of questions to be answered for each accession, just send me your email. Or look at post #16 in this thread, I do have a slightly updated version.
We want any landrace you can collect.
-SamS
I live in this country where there are many different landraces, we hunt them to cook in high-fat condensed milk and enjoy the smooth high coming in waves - I say landraces cause they grow in the wild, but some look like (tall, strong branches) having been cultivated for hemp-production in the past, while some are just feral, like the ones called Cannabis sativa L. subsp. spontanea Serebrjakova in Russian tradition and also called Cannabis Ruderalis in other traditions, the short and auto-flowering ones.
Then, in addition to this feral/escaped low-thc plants, there are of course different strains from different regions of Georgia, which is a small, but geographically diverse country. I believe there are traditional strains of both Indica and Sativa dominances (or what was used to be called Indica and Sativa), but no-one has ever documented them.
So, I registered on this forum to maybe get clues about how to start to put these local varieties to a catalogue and I found information that I didn't expect - 1 was about this mind-blowing re-clasification by Clarke and Merlin and the other about their theory regarding the NL Cannabis being from the more-or-less the same area as my country Georgia is (between the Black Sea and the Caucasus mountains).
That is why I want to contact you, I don't have much material yet, I will start taking samples in the second half of Spring, but I already have seeds of this above mentioned feral Ruderalis from a dry plain region in Eastern Georgia and I of cultivated drug-plant from the coastal region (where the most potent ones are said to come from in here).
For now, I cannot list the other races that I have come upon and cooked throughout years, but I want to collaborate with your project, the interest if Rob Clarke towards Caucasus being a big reason for it, do I really have to post so much, to be able to get in touch?
I mean I could just tell you my e-mail and you could contact me if interested
a lot of the nld cbd strains are related that they tested so that may have something to do with it. In the paper there's a link to a map they made it makes a little more sense when you see the groupings together
SpaceBros.
Member
Do you have any need for modern seed-bank landraces?
I a few have Hoa Bacs (Vietnam), Laos Luang Prabangs, Wild Thailand (WOS) and Oaxacans (Nirvana's El dorado) I could send you.
If they are pure landrace we want them, alive or dead seeds can be used, as well as a dead dry leaf which is easier for us to extract the DNA and sequence it. As long as we have the info about the variety, where it came from, via whom, and it is a landrace we want it. PM me.
-SamS
-SamS
retracted my statement.
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Why ask those questions if you seem to have it figured out LostTribe? Or you just talking out of your ass?
Just curious, thanks
Have a good night
Just curious, thanks
Have a good night
Robert Clarke interviewed by Project CBD's Martin Lee
Discusses the Phylos Cannabis Evolution DNA Project.
https://www.projectcbd.org/article/...ed+(02-18-2016)_2016-02-18_1&utm_medium=email
Discusses the Phylos Cannabis Evolution DNA Project.
https://www.projectcbd.org/article/...ed+(02-18-2016)_2016-02-18_1&utm_medium=email
SpaceBros.
Member
RCClarke said:
Thanks for the link Sam. Maybe a few of us, including me, had you all wrong. Any work taking Cannabis varieties out of the hands of individuals and bringing it into the hands of the people is good work in my book.
PS.You never returned my PM about the current seedbank "landraces" I can submit. I guess you're not interested? As nice as they are I'm fairly skeptical myself about them being 100% pure landrace Sativas.
SB
9
99%
That discussion was definitely worth listening to, thanks for posting the link Sam,
Clarke mentions that about 1000 samples have been DNA tested already, I wonder how many samples will need to be tested?
SpaceBros.
Member
Well a popular human DNA ancestry site uses reference populations of around a thousand individuals for each sub-group (eg. Eastern European, Ashkenazi, Middle Eastern, West African, Native American). Some sub-groups have as little as 40 individuals. More is always better.
The problem with Cannabis is its had considerably less time to evolve to it's local climate. My suspicion is that most of the differences in Cannabis are actually due to epigenetics or differences in environmental expression, not changes at the DNA sequence level.
Potentially the biggest difficulty with the project is the self assigning of samples. Someone may sell you something they call Highland Oaxacan gold when if fact it's Santa Marta Colombian gold. If too many of these mislabeled samples are submitted analysis of Data could be very difficult. More than likely what you assign your sample as will be taken with a grain of salt. The DNA itself will suggest where it comes from.
It's a very ambitious project and I wish the best of luck to Rob, Sam and co.
If they are pure landrace I want them, you can maybe ask others that have grown them what they think, or the makers of the seeds. The trouble with many seed banks is they do not maintain the males of each landrace, and may use a single or a few great NLD males, that is why old leafs from herbarium samples pre jet travel are the best for us. But hard to locate and sample. Again I do want any landrace drug, hemp or wild.
leaf samples of Reeferman's Hoa Bac (Vietnamese Mindfuck) - a feminized Vietnamese landrace from the comere people and Nirvana's El Dorado(It's a 12th generation back-cross of an Oaxacan variety). sound good PM me.
-SamS
leaf samples of Reeferman's Hoa Bac (Vietnamese Mindfuck) - a feminized Vietnamese landrace from the comere people and Nirvana's El Dorado(It's a 12th generation back-cross of an Oaxacan variety). sound good PM me.
-SamS
We talked about 20,000 samples, we have done over 1,000.
This is a photo of the 3d data, it will be released soon, and people will start to see where their sample fits into the Cannabis evolutionary tree. I and Rob have waited, as have many.
https://www.facebook.com/OregonGrow...6062319225726/447453868789138/?type=3&theater
-SamS
This is a photo of the 3d data, it will be released soon, and people will start to see where their sample fits into the Cannabis evolutionary tree. I and Rob have waited, as have many.
https://www.facebook.com/OregonGrow...6062319225726/447453868789138/?type=3&theater
-SamS
Robert Clarke interview about the Phylos project.
https://soundcloud.com/cannabisrepo...46-cannabis-evolution-project-with-rob-clarke
https://soundcloud.com/cannabisrepo...46-cannabis-evolution-project-with-rob-clarke
hi sam
very interessting project you are working at.
right now i grow lebanese and manipuri from the real seed company and some bagseed plants from jamaica, domenica and st. lucia.
the st lucia are real sativa beasts that grow very tall.
i also have a lot of seeds waiting from st.vincent/grenadines and jamaica.
does it matter in which state of the plants life i collect leafs for u?
in the summer i maybe can collect some leaf and seeds from austrian wild growing hemp. i think there is a lot of ruderalis in it. when i remembre right they start flowering june and produce seeds quickly.
also heard that this hemp is from old paper production still growing in the wild.
thx willi
very interessting project you are working at.
right now i grow lebanese and manipuri from the real seed company and some bagseed plants from jamaica, domenica and st. lucia.
the st lucia are real sativa beasts that grow very tall.
i also have a lot of seeds waiting from st.vincent/grenadines and jamaica.
does it matter in which state of the plants life i collect leafs for u?
in the summer i maybe can collect some leaf and seeds from austrian wild growing hemp. i think there is a lot of ruderalis in it. when i remembre right they start flowering june and produce seeds quickly.
also heard that this hemp is from old paper production still growing in the wild.
thx willi
No it does not matter if the leaves are collected from a veg plant leaf or flowering plant leaf. Yes we can use wild growing from anyplace, to check if it has interesting DNA.
Let me know if you need my address.
-SamS
Let me know if you need my address.
-SamS
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