Butane Residue Test Results

[Hydrosun]

OK i can grab a case of whip it locally tomorrow. after thinking about this all day can I tap the cans directly into my extractor? then distill the butane on the way back to the lp tank without tapping the cans directly into the lp tank first? My thinking is I dont want to put the mystery oil in my Lp tank, so if I can go from can directly to the extractor then recover to the lp tank and have distilled butane ready to go....also is there a need to keep the temps low during the distillation process? seems if your not concerned about the end product you could use higher temps for a faster process?

this info is on other threads, but never hurts....


Assemble system as normal, have one of your used columns on the system...

We are going to VAC the entire system down to full VAC, including the fresh recovery tank.....

Then we are going to have a can tapper with an on / off vavle right at the tap needle and a hose attached to that.

Now attach the hose to the system with the tapper valve closed. Open the injection port to the system and draw a vac out of the hose.

Now your system should be a VAC all the way through... Make sure drop valve is closed (if your system is bottom feed).

Now tap can one (180* away from the seam, at least 1/4" up from the bottom). Open the valve on the can tapper and the vac should pull the contents in while the propellant in the cans also pushes it in.

We are running it through used material to help capture the mystery oil.

Turn on your recovery pump, valve off the can each time the system reaches just below 0"hg.

Swap cans, repeat.....

 

[Hydrosun]

If the cans have a seem, tap them there where there is no paint.

Ok I'm going to rig up a way to distill this fresh batch of n-tane from ecogreen. I asked a friend to do it as well. I will post pics and results as well. I'm praying it will be clean and maybe the contaminated part is on behalf of the propane, I have other reasons to think this but not positive. I'll do this tomorrow first thing!

I find the seam dulls the tapper needle. The paint will be captured by our coffee filters in the column of used material, or mystery oil that we are dumping anyway.

 

[Sunfire]

You guys, this is a big issue for norcal. Everyone and there mum drives down to anderson and gets tanks from ecogreen. The two time I've been there there's mad people, getting dozens of tanks and stuffing their suv's and trucks.

Please I must know...is it ONLY the last batch.of blend that's been proven this badly contaminated??? I rigged every thing up and got it all vacced down to 1k micron. Tomorrow I'll go get some ice and distill some of their latest shipment of n-tane and report back promptly!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Eco, has posted their lab letters. I think it was vividavis who had the pdf and posted it up.

I will track down the pdf so we can post it here. The mostly full 70/30, never burped or flipped upsided down, is in Vegas just a few hundred miles from SH.

I will work on getting it a ride over to his place!



PS Sean is building his business reputation, right now that business owes me thousands of dollars for wasted time and ruined work product because of their intentional distribution of KNOWN faulty goods. When you speak to Sean explain to him that I passed the bar exam, not for fun but for personal situations just as this... Also let him know that I don't go around making shit up.

Good! It would be good to put things in perspective with empirical numbers!

 

[Gray Wolf]

I find the seam dulls the tapper needle. The paint will be captured by our coffee filters in the column of used material, or mystery oil that we are dumping anyway.

I punch as close to the bottom as I can, and exactly opposite the seam, relying on the trap to catch the paint chips.

The seam is resistance welded and the mechanical properties are not uniform.

 

[Gray Wolf]

You guys, this is a big issue for norcal. Everyone and there mum drives down to anderson and gets tanks from ecogreen. The two time I've been there there's mad people, getting dozens of tanks and stuffing their suv's and trucks.

Please I must know...is it ONLY the last batch.of blend that's been proven this badly contaminated??? I rigged every thing up and got it all vacced down to 1k micron. Tomorrow I'll go get some ice and distill some of their latest shipment of n-tane and report back promptly!

I personally no longer use anyone's butane, without first distilling it. If something ghastly were to come out, I would investigate further before using.

The principle reason, besides that I can and want the best product possible, is the variability their industry has demonstrated.

99.9% R-600 can legally have .001,999 contaminants, or 1,999 ppm. We use it because it normally is no where near that, and usually under 100 ppm.

Part of the difference is that as the purity increases, contaminants excluded include propane, which is not a contaminant for us. It is harder to remove than pentane and larger molecules, so the purification procedures are more elaborate.

Pentane actually makes an excellent extraction, but the Van Der Waals forces increase with molecule size, so it is subsequently harder to purge. The FDA standard for residual pentane is 5000 ppm, but you can taste it below 100 ppm, so though not toxic at those levels, it is undesirable from a taste stand point.

It is also easier to remove before extraction, than after wards, so when vacuum distilling it is critical to keep the cold trap below about 85F and not pump below 0 gauge.

VICI Metronics @ vici.com can provide polishing filters to further reduce the pentane and we and others have experiments underway looking at alternatives.

99.999% HPLC grade n-Butane is expensive, so we have some margin to play with, in producing a 99.99999% purity, if we don't care about the propane.

PS: Take a look at the dual duty trap/filter drier, that can be used to distill and post filter the butane before using. It just requires different packing for the hydrocarbons, versus water, which is one of the tests we will be running with it.

 

[Hydrosun]

thanks for the info hyrdosun, but I will be using a passive sytem, Im assuming everything will be the same sans the recovery pump, with more time being required for the transfers. How do I know how many cans to use? The extractor source said to use 2.7 lbs in the half pound unit, how do I go about doing so with cans...weigh the extractor after each can is tapped into it?

Here is EcoGarbages posted test for the shit batch.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-ee6pcyPGrwcHJNenM1Q2lrMDJDTEo1WURHcDdueE8xR2Rj/view

Butane is appx 1/3rd lb per can. If you are putting it in a 50lb storage tank, I would plan to put in 18lbs...

 

[OG_TGR]

I dont think you get it. Ecogreens KNOWN contaminated solvent against cans of Butane that you CAN see tests on in this thread?

I have 2 lbs, yes pounds of shatter that is unusable after 20+ hours of distilling and $200+ of dry ice...

I have since gone back to a very pure butane cans till I can find a better source...

If you could only TRY this difference between the poisoned Ecogreen and the butane can runs...

What is there not to GET?? CLEARLY, the results of the tests on THIS thread would suggest that the EcoGreen, in fact, has LESS contaminates than MOST of the other butane tested (#3 from best to worst in residue content).

What is it that you don't "get"?

Judging by the continued inquiries as to the interpretation of these results, I am clearly not the only one who hasn't drawn the same conclusions as you have.

I'm merely asking questions, no need to be condescending.

 

[OG_TGR]

it looks like lowe's has a 40# tank for $79.99, is there any reason I cant use this propane tank?

AH! No man, lol, don't do that! Not the same grade, for sure.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Here is EcoGarbages posted test for the shit batch.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-ee6pcyPGrwcHJNenM1Q2lrMDJDTEo1WURHcDdueE8xR2Rj/view

Butane is appx 1/3rd lb per can. If you are putting it in a 50lb storage tank, I would plan to put in 18lbs...

Thanks brosan! That helps a lot!

My first question, is this for sure the bad lot number, because the lab analysis says:

"The identified compounds in the condensate are primarily fatty acid compounds with negligible human toxicity. The estimated concentration for all identified compounds is under 10 Parts Per Billionth (PPB) concentration in the gas phase."

If it is the bad lot, and the field results are abysmal, it suggests non uniformity within the lot itself.

If it isn't the bad lot, what lot number should we be looking for?

Specialty Analytical is local, so if you split a sample between Skyhighler and Moi, I can have the bad tank analyzed and see how it compares to the samples they previously tested from the same lot.

 

[Gray Wolf]

it looks like lowe's has a 40# tank for $79.99, is there any reason I cant use this propane tank?

Depends on how you plan to use it.

We are typically using a refrigeration tank with dip tube and Y valve, so we can have vapor and liquid at the same time.

Used propane tanks, will also have some mercaptans remaining, so would have to be precleaned before using it for butane storage that is going to be used for extraction.

http://www.centurytool.net/ for tanks.

 

[flatslabs]

Don't forget that fuel tanks typically have left handed threading so you will need a fitting to adapt.

 

[Gray Wolf]

they are brand new and clean GW, I was more concerned with the pressure rating of the vessel and the ability to be dry ice/iso bathed.

If it is a DOT propane tank, it will be rated high enough for butane.

Carbon steel tanks embrittle at cryogenic temperatures, so a 300 series stainless steel tank would be better suited.

We're experimenting with a counter flow exchanger to get away from cryogenic tanks, until we can at least get decent 300 series stainless ones.

 

[flatslabs]

good to know, do they happen to sell those at HD?

More likely to be found at a Camper / RV Supply place

 

[Sunfire]

Zdub, I think your current tank is contaminated and maybe shouldn't be used. You can technically invert the propane tank to get liquid out of it. On the back of the valve there a little safety blow off valve, usually covered with a little plastic cap. Next to there it should say the psi that it blows at, usually around 400-500 psi.

I feel it'd be worth your investment to get a tr21, a stainless steel coil to chill, and a proper recovery tank from century tools.

Og - I think the only thing you need to get, is that picture krunch put up of his collection chamber after distilling, Uber gross!

OK I'm headed into town to go get some ice, I kinda ghettoed this together. Just going to use one pump and chiller and just ice with rock salt cause I don't want to risk contaminating everything and I'm still waiting on fittings to be able to rock sub zero. I'll be back in a few hours with results!

 

[SkyHighLer]

Here is EcoGarbages posted test for the shit batch.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-ee6pcyPGrwcHJNenM1Q2lrMDJDTEo1WURHcDdueE8xR2Rj/view

Butane is appx 1/3rd lb per can. If you are putting it in a 50lb storage tank, I would plan to put in 18lbs...

Thanks brosan! That helps a lot!

My first question, is this for sure the bad lot number, because the lab analysis says:

"The identified compounds in the condensate are primarily fatty acid compounds with negligible human toxicity. The estimated concentration for all identified compounds is under 10 Parts Per Billionth (PPB) concentration in the gas phase."

If it is the bad lot, and the field results are abysmal, it suggests non uniformity within the lot itself.

If it isn't the bad lot, what lot number should we be looking for?

Specialty Analytical is local, so if you split a sample between Skyhighler and Moi, I can have the bad tank analyzed and see how it compares to the samples they previously tested from the same lot.

Specialty Analytical is on record "The identified compounds in the condensate are primarily fatty acid compounds with negligible human toxicity. The estimated concentration for all identified compounds is under 10 Parts Per Billionth (PPB) concentration in the gas phase."

And I call BS.

10ppb is .000001%

EcoGreen's 99.999999 pure regarding non-volatile residue?


The barely readable on my scale of 0.001g of non-volatile residue from a 300ml/165g can is .0006%, or 99.9994% pure.


Do your own solvent purity test on the new EcoGreen! Squirt ~300ml/165g into a bag, let it boil off, vac off any volatiles, and get a weight. Full instructions at the bottom of the first post of this thread.


I could drive up to EcoGreen, do the test on camera, and take down Specialty Analytical.

I'm awaiting a call back from Sean the Maha Man... ;-)

 

[flatslabs]

I see their test is listed as for the gas phase only, that doesn't seem to help us much.

 

[krunchbubble]

I could drive up to EcoGreen, do the test on camera, and take down Specialty Analytical.

I'm awaiting a call back from Sean the Maha Man... ;-)

Ill pay for gas and lunch!

 

[krunchbubble]

What is there not to GET?? CLEARLY, the results of the tests on THIS thread would suggest that the EcoGreen, in fact, has LESS contaminates than MOST of the other butane tested (#3 from best to worst in residue content).

What is it that you don't "get"?

Judging by the continued inquiries as to the interpretation of these results, I am clearly not the only one who hasn't drawn the same conclusions as you have.

I'm merely asking questions, no need to be condescending.

Then go ahead! Poison yourself and whatever patients your making your extract for, I DONT GIVE A SHIT!

I process 100's of lb's a month, I have no clue what im talking about...

 

[SkyHighLer]

Just got off ranting at Sean from EcoGreen.

They've been selling from a new shipment for about a week and a half, the old 70/30 "smells like sulfur" and they'll only sell it to you if you specifically request it in full knowledge.

The reason the old 70/30 smells is it was blended from batch of propane that was also later found to be stinking of sulfur.

He doesn't follow here or at Instagram etc., I asked him to find my head post, and learn to do my test, and maybe take a look at you guys' recent comments...

Boy did I rant... I called him and all of you morons for not doing my test.

I sent him last year to Gray Wolf, hence Specialty Analytical for third party testing, and, like I said, there is no third party lab testing service that can get at the nitty gritty like my simple test. Just do it brothers or flounder...