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Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science
- Thread starter FatherEarth
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I am a walking disclaimer...listen to this dick at your own risk
plantingplants
Active member
---- dupe
plantingplants
Active member
^^^^ devil's in the details and every new technique has a learning curve. That's why I ask ' too many' questions.
Slow what do you mean by this? Are you saying for ex use small doses of fish hydrolysate to neutralize bicarbonates? Why that over small applications of gypsum?
Slow what do you mean by this? Are you saying for ex use small doses of fish hydrolysate to neutralize bicarbonates? Why that over small applications of gypsum?
caterpillar710
Member
Jidoka is high on kush. U can't trust him to not be messing with you
The issue with bicarbonates is that they grab your available calcium before your plant can. With a good fish amino, several of those aminos will grab and hold the calcium without the bicarbonate being able to react and make carbonates. We actually see it cleaning our drip lines!
And yes, keep up the small applications of gypsum and lactate! And don't forget to make your gypsum spikes!
plantingplants
Active member
That's cool. I definitely have scale buildup on my lines. Would you recommend that over small/often applications of gyp?
I guess it probably depends on what you need.
I guess it probably depends on what you need.
No, you still need the small quantities. Add some powdered milk to your plants as well, has lots of P, Ca and aminos!
caterpillar710
Member
How about acetates
plantingplants
Active member
Did you forget my P was at 600 lol
I'm starting to not really trust those soil results because I didn't wait too long after applying nutes to take samples. I had 3500 ppm aa Ca and 600 P? I'm going to mix all the soil up now that the plants are down and get a homogenous mix then get another analysis.
I'm starting to not really trust those soil results because I didn't wait too long after applying nutes to take samples. I had 3500 ppm aa Ca and 600 P? I'm going to mix all the soil up now that the plants are down and get a homogenous mix then get another analysis.
Busted again. I cheat. I go 6 iinch pots of ss4. From there i go to soil.
So cloning cube, 6 inch lighweight pot then real soil with either ammonium phosphate chelated with fulvic or a pop of accelerate
At that point i use the surfactant capsil.
And yea...once again i should give more detail. Almost like you and slow are hanging right now
That makes sense. I tried from plug or small cell with ss4 or other peat base but they weren't established enough I suppose. I just wanted to get them in better balanced media right away.
You're his pusher!
That ain't no joke. South fork kush is the dopest dope i ever smoked. Doing dabs of live resin with byf will leave you lost in space for hours. Thank you bro
caterpillar710
Member
Yeah right! Dude literally demands it every visit ... I don't mind though.
You didn't seem lost at all. All 8 things you said that night were profound!! Reached a level of Zen mastery. Nakao-san would be proud.
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Yeah, you're right. Imagine the headlines, plant killed by milk. haha
What did you apply prior to your having taken a sample? How did you apply that last fertilization and how much of what was applied?
How did you take the samples?
Like the hippies down the road that don't want to spend the $$$ on AEA or Albion foliars. So they soak their guinea egg shells in vinegar to make Calcium Acetate. Seems to work for them as a foliar. I just buy the shit... Don't think it works as good, but hippies like free shit.
Hey jidoka, you try the Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar instead of komboucha as a foliar yet?
Hey jidoka, you try the Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar instead of komboucha as a foliar yet?
And idealogically, I still have two competing theories, one from slow and one from jidoka, as to why I ran into issues with this BAS soil this year. Seasons over and bickering aside, I'm still curious as to what and who is right?!? Jidoka says because it is a mostly peat based mix, that gypsum and excess Ca is what fucked it up, making no room for other cations. Slow's theory is that there wasn't ENOUGH gypsum and way too much carbonate and CEC. What is evident is the high C inhibited nitrates and all the excess cations (contributed by amendments, carnonates, biochar) caused alkaline conditions. Considering some amount of bicarbonate in the water, and the excess Na from the kelp top dress that all the coots people insisted....I'm having to side with slow here. Peat base or not, water is alkaline and we shouldn't worry about acid soil conditions with that kind of water. I think that soil would of been double fucked without the gypsum.
The previous year I averaged 1.2 oz per sq ft and I added lots of gypsum and didnt tell anyone. Shhhhhhh..... I secretly love gypsum and hate peat.....shhhh.
The previous year I averaged 1.2 oz per sq ft and I added lots of gypsum and didnt tell anyone. Shhhhhhh..... I secretly love gypsum and hate peat.....shhhh.
I can confidently say that gypsum has improved my game.
Plants always pray, yeild has increased and plant health has improved.
I live in a symbiotic relationship ship with mites aphids and thrips. All have predatorsrs present and me er become a problem. Just small blemishes here and the and on older leaves.
Well now 2 months after starting weekly gypsum drenches I have a hard time finding pests.
I worry for my predators so I have planted a pot of catch plants for a predator haven.
Plants always pray, yeild has increased and plant health has improved.
I live in a symbiotic relationship ship with mites aphids and thrips. All have predatorsrs present and me er become a problem. Just small blemishes here and the and on older leaves.
Well now 2 months after starting weekly gypsum drenches I have a hard time finding pests.
I worry for my predators so I have planted a pot of catch plants for a predator haven.
Space, the plant you saw in my garden had zero gypsum, zero oyster shell, zero crab shell, zero neem, zero kelp meal, zero basalt. The only amendment I did was 4.2 lbs of Ca Silicate. Water has total alkalinity of 56. It was 1/3 peat, 1/3 oly and 1/3 pumice. Simple as fuck.
I fed Tainio, AEA and one shot of KOH (obviously I need some protein in there).
But I am done with peat mixes also. My next trial is gonna be that top soil you know about at 80% and axis de course for drainage. I have a sample headed to the lab today I will share with you. Amendments will be based on that. I will probably chuck a bag of sup r green per yard as food.
It would be interesting to take that first mix I did and do nothing but water it for a month with your water and see what happens to the pH. If it goes up on its own to calcareous levels then you would need gypsum instead of silicate.
BAS uses 1/2 cup per cubic ft crab, and 1 cup of both oyster shell and gypsum...both of which weigh around 9 ounces per cup. They are straight up creating a calcareous soil from the get go. I am not.
So it would be interesting to see if the problem is water or just the fact you are dealing with such a calcareous soil to start with.
edit...nova crop control says nearly every deficiency they see is from too much of something causing something else to be blocked. My goal is to start with a mix that does not have too much of any single thing, amend to proper levels and not have to spend my year chasing my tail.
But that is me. Obviously there are a lot of ways to skin a cat.
edit dos...another way to look at it would be did you have trouble with my mix in your black box? It did not have gypsum. But again, it was not calcareous to begin with.
I can fully support Slow's method if you are dealing with calcareous soils. I just don't start with them
I fed Tainio, AEA and one shot of KOH (obviously I need some protein in there).
But I am done with peat mixes also. My next trial is gonna be that top soil you know about at 80% and axis de course for drainage. I have a sample headed to the lab today I will share with you. Amendments will be based on that. I will probably chuck a bag of sup r green per yard as food.
It would be interesting to take that first mix I did and do nothing but water it for a month with your water and see what happens to the pH. If it goes up on its own to calcareous levels then you would need gypsum instead of silicate.
BAS uses 1/2 cup per cubic ft crab, and 1 cup of both oyster shell and gypsum...both of which weigh around 9 ounces per cup. They are straight up creating a calcareous soil from the get go. I am not.
So it would be interesting to see if the problem is water or just the fact you are dealing with such a calcareous soil to start with.
edit...nova crop control says nearly every deficiency they see is from too much of something causing something else to be blocked. My goal is to start with a mix that does not have too much of any single thing, amend to proper levels and not have to spend my year chasing my tail.
But that is me. Obviously there are a lot of ways to skin a cat.
edit dos...another way to look at it would be did you have trouble with my mix in your black box? It did not have gypsum. But again, it was not calcareous to begin with.
I can fully support Slow's method if you are dealing with calcareous soils. I just don't start with them
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What Nova is saying is true. However, most everything that is high is high due to lack of calcium, not having enough to be able to take on all the rest of what you want to apply. Think it through. All the K you applied, would have been fine had you had enough Ca.
If you have high Fe and Al, you may want to shop around for a more balanced product or one that is at least manageable.
