Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[jidoka]

Side bud of that shitty ol blue dream

 

[jidoka]

Avenger...it came up in slows thread about finding meq per yard of soil. That should not be hard to do, essentially they are reporting meq for a certain volume. If I find out that volume I could easily translate it to meq/yard.

But I cannot wrap my head around what next. How do I figure from the ppm they report to meqs?

I get that it would be very accurate, I just don't get how to do the math.

 

[slownickel]

Avenger...it came up in slows thread about finding meq per yard of soil. That should not be hard to do, essentially they are reporting meq for a certain volume. If I find out that volume I could easily translate it to meq/yard.

But I cannot wrap my head around what next. How do I figure from the ppm they report to meqs?

I get that it would be very accurate, I just don't get how to do the math.

Here is a good book that shows the math clearly.

By the way, did a Si experiment. Amazing results. I owe you one.

 

[slownickel]

Avenger...it came up in slows thread about finding meq per yard of soil. That should not be hard to do, essentially they are reporting meq for a certain volume. If I find out that volume I could easily translate it to meq/yard.

But I cannot wrap my head around what next. How do I figure from the ppm they report to meqs?

I get that it would be very accurate, I just don't get how to do the math.

They measured your sample. The 1 gram scoop weight of your samples were 0.5 grams and 0.6 grams.

 

[jidoka]

So cec/50 instead of 100 is 2x what they reported. I can work with that.

Still curious how avenger is thinking

 

[Avenger]

whats the question?

maths?

ooo nooo...

 

[jidoka]

You have been my math guy when I am stumped for a long time

 

[plantingplants]

So really, why don't they just measure the weight, do the math, and report accurate CEC and calculations?

 

[jidoka]

There is your opportunity planting...start a lab

 

[plantingplants]

Ok fine.

 

[Space Case]

This is so Epic!! Love seeing this thread and all the honesty and transparency.

First off, really sorry this season isn't going as planned and that our soil might be part of that.

I'm also learning a ton from growers taking BAS soil full season.

We are only wanting to improve.

To be transparent I'm attaching here our Living Soil with Oly Mountain recipe tested at logan labs using M3 and also AA 8.2

The result is showing the oyster flour liming we used was falsely showing higher CEC and now with the AA 8.2 we are seeing a clearer picture. Comparing the two is interesing. (Note P is still M3 so numbers are the same)

Also at Red Thumb!! Let's get in touch. After this past season I'm wanting to get this right for next year more than ever before. We now have that larger soil mixer and it really down mix very consistent. That and I would be willing to fully balance a large batch for you according to your exact needs and provide pricing significantly better that last year to help make up for it.

I'll also reach out via email.

At the time you picked up the LOS oly we were using a large percentage of worm castings which really raises the price. We are no longer doing that in an effort to fully balance the soil. The goal is to offer a fully balanced version in the future that focuses on Micro-Nutrients instead of just recommending products like TM7 or Cyto-plus for trace minerals.

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Soooooo your R&D consists of charging $300 per yard and then observing and learning from the mistakes of your customers instead of having a real test garden of your own? I dont consider a 4x4 tent with an LED a test garden for commercial production, BTW. Then the best thing you can offer is a discount on MORE soil? Why would I buy more of your soil? I have 60 yards that I'm gonna chuck now! I spent the whole season struggling with this shit while you made excuses. You implied that I killed all the microbes by feeding solubles and nitrates, which I waited until September to do, because all the biology in the world didn't unlock it. Too little too late. I spent the the entire summer foliar feeding, brewing various teas at least once or twice per week, alfalfa teas, cabohydrate teas, AACTs, enzyme and sprouted seed teas. I was also doing WEEKLY innoculants above recommended rates with both Tainio and Rootwise microbes (same shit). In the end, my results were lack luster after thousands of dollars of additional inputs. And the whole time you are hinting that I probably killed the soil biology because everyone knows me as a "salt guy". I fucking should of been dumping salts on that shit soil, if I knew what was best for me, but I spent all summer like a dumbass trying to make the microbes perform a fucking impossible job.

I emailed you and left messages, only to not hear back for a month or more each time. Then I was told that I should of gotten the Malibu compost soil, instead of the Olys. So my fault for not spending more money, right? But jidoka pulled off some impressive plants with the same base, including the Oly's compost. So was it the compost source, or all the other crap in there?

 

[jidoka]

I follow the tainio guidelines. If pH is below 6.5 use carbonate or silicate ( trust me silicate), above 7 use gypsum, in between split them.

I did that mix for a different gig. For me outdoor and experimenting indo i am gonna use top soil at 80% and a new drainage amend at 20. It kills that coot base for me. You just gotta learn to water real dirt

 

[Space Case]

Well there is always a benefit to using mineral inputs that have plant-usable cations and anions. Plants don't use or uptake carbonates, but will uptake silicate, sulfate, phosphate, and nitrate. Seems we should always limit our mineral amendments to these compounds.

Sorry for being late to the party, just finishing trimming over here on the mountain, and getting in final numbers, etc.

I think I went through at least 10 gallons of Accelerate, and 5 gals each of SeaStim, SeaShield, Rejuvenate, and who knows what else. Finally, dumping Albion Ca, B, Multi, Mn, and K right into the roots was the only thing that got me some decent final swell on the buds without much susceptibility to fungal pathogens, in the final weeks. Nothing else could get that soil to move...

 

[slownickel]

I follow the tainio guidelines. If pH is below 6.5 use carbonate or silicate ( trust me silicate), above 7 use gypsum, in between split them.

I did that mix for a different gig. For me outdoor and experimenting indo i am gonna use top soil at 80% and a new drainage amend at 20. It kills that coot base for me. You just gotta learn to water real dirt

What does Tanio say about folks with alkaline water?

In acid soils we use both carbonates, sulfates and lactates of calcium. In neutral the same provided no water issues. With water issues, no carbonates unless previously digested with OM. In alkaline soils, calcium sulfate and lactate.

 

[jidoka]

Treat that water to tie up the bicarbs at least.

Or use gypsum...you have a point. I speak from good water experience. But you are right for your circumstance. Know your soil/water before deciding. My bad

 

[slownickel]

Treat that water to tie up the bicarbs at least.

Or use gypsum...you have a point. I speak from good water experience. But you are right for your circumstance. Know your soil/water before deciding. My bad

Lots of folk on these pages feed off of every word. We must be careful to not give them a partial concept.

There are many in Cali that have this problem guy. Ask Plantingplants, his water sucks. Right down the street, great water!

Can't leave that dynamic out of the equation.

And treating bicarbs with acid on soils that are new (historically low rainfalls) and that have active carbonates (they fizz when you add muriatic acid), can be very very dangerous. Aluminum toxicity is quite common in those situations in alkaline soils due to folks acidifying with phosphoric or sulfuric acid, that change of pH releases Al. Better off using amino acids constantly in small dosages to keep that Ca available instead of tying it up with bicarbonates.

 

[orechron]

I follow the tainio guidelines. If pH is below 6.5 use carbonate or silicate ( trust me silicate), above 7 use gypsum, in between split them.

I did that mix for a different gig. For me outdoor and experimenting indo i am gonna use top soil at 80% and a new drainage amend at 20. It kills that coot base for me. You just gotta learn to water real dirt

The heavier soils I've trailed have been really difficult. Blumats, when adjusted right provide perfect watering but even then I've seen some wilting right after transplant. I try not to let soil dry, but I can't seem to find the balance to not stress the small plants. How do you approach watering clay or top soil?

 

[jidoka]

Lots of folk on these pages feed off of every word. We must be careful to not give them a partial concept.

There are many in Cali that have this problem guy. Ask Plantingplants, his water sucks. Right down the street, great water!

Can't leave that dynamic out of the equation.

And treating bicarbs with acid on soils that are new (historically low rainfalls) and that have active carbonates (they fizz when you add muriatic acid), can be very very dangerous. Aluminum toxicity is quite common in those situations in alkaline soils due to folks acidifying with phosphoric or sulfuric acid, that change of pH releases Al. Better off using amino acids constantly in small dosages to keep that Ca available instead of tying it up with bicarbonates.

Agreed brother...i need to add a disclaimer to my posts

 

[orechron]

Jidoka,

You're a good candidate for most disclaimers on icmag

 

[jidoka]

The heavier soils I've trailed have been really difficult. Blumats, when adjusted right provide perfect watering but even then I've seen some wilting right after transplant. I try not to let soil dry, but I can't seem to find the balance to not stress the small plants. How do you approach watering clay or top soil?

Busted again. I cheat. I go 6 iinch pots of ss4. From there i go to soil.

So cloning cube, 6 inch lighweight pot then real soil with either ammonium phosphate chelated with fulvic or a pop of accelerate

At that point i use the surfactant capsil.

And yea...once again i should give more detail. Almost like you and slow are hanging right now