a ppk for a 6 plant limit

[delta9nxs]

hey, how many are you doing? screening 60 gals of turface is an all day deal and not a lot of fun.

maybe you can just really wash it well and do the porosity test i showed earlier.

i find that an air filled porosity of about 30-35% is about right for the ppk.

you could take some right out of the bag and check it dirty and i bet it wouldn't be much over about 20-22%. by just washing really well you can get up to 25-30%. and this is acceptable but not ideal. by screening over aluminum window screen i could get 30-35%. by not screening but adding rice hulls at a 3/1 ratio i got 35%+.

perlite and rice hulls are interchangable. do the same thing as a cutter. so washing but not screening and adding just some perlite would help porosity, too.

 

[RamCTD1027]

Thanks for chiming in Delta (and everyone else). I value all the intelligent people in the PPK thread.

I realized that the turface wasnt ideal for ebb and flow but i needed a quick alternative to hand watering in the interim while I finished the PPK set-up and flower room. I considered going from 1.5" rockwool cubes to small pots of coco for veg before transplanting into the 7gal PPK sites of turface, however, I thought it would be best to keep the medium all turface so thats what I did.

While on that topic, my plan was to build a ppk clone/veg set-up like you showed earlier in this thread. Any tweaks to that set-up that you would recommend? Are you taking cuts and putting them directly into that set-up or do you root in something, (rapid rooters, rockwool, etc) and then place in that set-up?

I will be planting 10 plants into the 7gal feed tubs so it looks like I will be washing/screening more turface than I would like. I dont have the cement mixer set-up just yet, but that is on the list of things to do before the next run.

You mentioned the air-filled porosity test and I've seen you mention it before, however, I don't believe you discussed how to do it in this thread. I have read this thread a few times front to back and I dont remember reading about how to check the air-fill porosity. Could you explain the process again? If it's already discussed in this thread, I apologize for asking.

I see you mention cutting the mix with perlite. Is that something you recommend for increased performance or as an alternative to screening? I'd rather not screen all that turface, but if 100% screened turface is preferred to turface/perlite mix, I'd rather screen it. I have a few friends with nothing better to do that I can employ as screeners if that is best.

 

[delta9nxs]

i was able to find these on my old computer. this is a roughly accurate air filled porosity test.

the solo brand cups are precisely 18 fl oz's so they are a good one to use. fill it to the top with your material. it is probably a good idea to wet it thoroughly first so the particles are at saturation. make sure it is completely drained before starting.

fill the cup with water to the top and tap, vibrate, thump it a few times to get the air bubbles out and settle it.

top it with more material if necessary. the idea is to get the cup level full of material and water right to the top.

cut a corner off and let it drain.

you will see the draining stop. this is the point where the perched water table has formed, gravity has removed all the water it can but there is still water being held up in the medium by the forces of adhesion and cohesion.

here i stuck a toothpick up into the medium and the draining resumed. this is a clear demonstration that the pwt exists. the tailpiece in a larger container functions the same way. get all the water out into your catch container and measure it.

 

[delta9nxs]

so we see that i was able to remove 6 oz's of water. this water represents the amount of free air space that will exist in your medium after each watering and draining event.

the solo cup is 18 oz's and i got 6 out so the percentage of air filled porosity is approx 33%. this turface was screened over regular aluminum window insect screen. if you do screen use the aluminum and not the fiberglass as the aluminum has a slightly larger opening size.

 

[delta9nxs]

going on about the media characteristics a little bit if you measure the total amount of water needed to saturate the medium and fill the cup you would also know the water retention of your medium after subtracting the air filled volume.

this allows you to compare moisture retention characteristics of different media.

glass marbles don't hold much water while turface holds a lot.

 

[delta9nxs]

research papers i have read show that there is a direct relationship between secondary root growth (air type roots) and shoot development in the aerial portions of the plant.

and that the growth of the secondary roots is directly proportional to the air filled capacity of your medium and it's oxygen content.

 

[Snook]

cant give you any more 'rep'. that's F'dU.. I remember those 'original' pics.. aaah, the good ole days...

 

[gmanwho]

right on delta. great demonstration an it reminds me why i enjoy this community.

bsafe

 

[McKush]

^^^ true dat. awesome drop.

 

[Cat Jockey]

Well, not to stir up a shit storm, but since I have been referenced in this thread and dismissed out of hand as not knowing what the fuck I am talking about, I'll comment.

as mm said, it is not the turface, ph, or the calcium.

that pattern of spots on the leaf, starting in that place, you can see them emanating out of the veins, are indicative of low o2 in the root zone.

anoxic conditions are occurring at least part of the time. it looks to me that you are hand watering conventional pots. if so, change your schedule.

Man, get outta here with your low O2 anoxic stuff. That would be a bit more systemic than what his plants are showing. You got this oxygen/ambient air fixation, but neither Turface, nor your 'system' are any better at providing it than many other mediums and systems. Let's back the diagnosis van up a bit. Something I have said more than once in the forums is that the only way to REALLY tell if you have a nutrient tox or def is to have a tissue analysis done. Any PhD botanist will tell you that, too. However, plants display systems, and we can make accurate educated guesses (and be right).

Further, many def symptoms can appear similar, and things can do some confusing things at times, like Ca. Immobile in plants, it is expected, and does, show up in new growth. But it can also hit mature leaves with that necrotic spotting, mostly what seems to show up in weed. Here is a Sweet Potato plant displaying your 'emanating out of the veins' thing, but it is a Ca def, JUST LIKE the dude's plants in question:



That pic comes from the Australian Centre for International Agricultural Research (ACIAR). Here is some of what they say about Ca def:

A second symptom may develop on mature leaves, which is apparently unrelated to the necrosis of young leaves. Necrotic spots appear, which are either clustered along the main veins from the petiole attachment point to about half-way to the margin, or scattered uniformly across the interveinal areas. They are roughly circular with abrupt, irregular edges, and do not seem to accelerate leaf senescence. The necrotic tissue in this case is mid brown, and is not brittle. These symptoms have been reported from two separate studies (Bolle-Jones and Ismunadji,1963;> O’Sullivan, et al.,1997) in which they were observed in three of five cultivars, from diverse genetic origins.

It's a Ca issue. The question that remains is what is causing it, as it can be from multiple things.

With weed farmers, I have seen it be issues with the nute regime and lock-out issues causing Ca def a lot of the times, but there is another issue that leads to a lot of Ca def in weed plants - bad watering habits. According to Angela O'Callaghan, Ph.D., of the University of Nevada the number one cause of Ca def in plants she has looked at is improper watering. A grow medium that is excessively wet or excessively dry.

This Turface stuff is hydrophobic. Get you 'pulsing' off a bit and you will have an 'excessively dry' condition. Keep that in mind.

turface is a superb hydroponic medium

According to you. You can obviously grow weed in it, but it ain't 'superb'. It has some pros, and it has some cons. You can grow a lot of really good weed in a lot of mediums, and in a lot of different growing systems (like your PPK). I came to this thread looking to see what PPK was all about due to the Infirmary thread referenced. Skimmed the first 10 pages, then went to the last looking for some pics of plants and starting working my way backwards and saw the post referencing me.

Before I hit 'Submit Reply', I'm gonna smoke a bowl and finish going through this thread.

All of that being said, I have found enough cons about Turface, not to say it sucks, but to at least keep it from being adorned with the title 'Superb'.

I don't have a 'best' growing medium or system - they are situation/growroom/needs specific. But, if you personally have staked your rep on Turface being the best shit since sliced bread, well, from a cursory investigation, it just looks to me like another medium one can use. But it in of itself, as a medium, is not going to be responsible for better harvests because it is somehow so much better than other mediums, which is an implication words like 'superb' carry.

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/45/4/679.full.pdf

From the Abstract:

All three substrates performed adequately for germination, survival, and growth of Zamia. Turface and possibly the silica sand likely require additional watering to improve their performance as cycad substrates.

More from it:

The leaves of Zamia fairchildiana seedlings in Turface were twisted down and the petioles bent. This was possibly the result of the more rapid drying of the Turface than the sand or cycad mix, causing intermittent water stress. The tendency of Turface to dry quickly when used as the sole substrate component was observed in a prior experiment with bromeliad cultivation

Things like 'intermittent water stress' and 'superb' do not go together in describing a substrate. It is not all negatives, and there are pros mentioned about it, too. Which makes it pretty much like multiple other mediums and NOTHING SPECIAL or UNACHIEVABLE with other mediums.

Again, I ain't saying you can't grow some good weed with it, just encouraging people, especially beginner/intermediate growers to not put on their blinders, shut out other possibilities to consider, and mistakenly think that the use of Turface in and of itself will lead to increased yields, easier yields, etc., because it is the 'best shit' around.

the bonsai hero on your thread in the infirmary is not acknowledging the huge cultural differences between hydro and hand watered containers.

Bonsai Hero? Lol. Take some pot shots at him (or me, if that was your intent and I'm the Bosai Hero), instead of openmidedly considering what he (I) says. I assure you that Bonsai Hero (he and me) knows enough about the root structures of plants to at least listen to and consider, before dismissing him (me) out of hand.

There was a guy with the handle Delta9 (is that you?) something or other that really brought LST to the online weed world well over a decade ago. Prior to that, SupperCropping was the big thing, along with ScrOG and FIM'ing. When he presented his methods, his LST, he referenced things he learned from studying books about Bonsai techniques.

LST, especially when done correctly (which a great many don't), has been responsible for MORE weed being harvested in the gardens of growers in the last 15 years. Bringing Bonsai techniques into weed gardens caused MORE weed to be harvested.

I personally have kept mother plants alive for years using Bonsai techniques and brought to the weed world by OT1 and his Bonsai Mums tutorial.

You say Bonsai Hero dismissively. I, however, understand how much more weed has been harvested, and how many more strains people have been able to keep, DIRECTLY because of listening to 'Bonsai Heros'.

As I mentioned in the Infirmary thread, take a look at that dude's portfolio before you casually dismiss his opinion.

And I don't know what the hell you mean about cultural differences between hand watering containers and hydro. That really doesn't make any sense, and I have extensive experience in both 'cultures', and the shit looks like the same 'culture' to me, lol. Get outta here with 'Bonsai advice not being relevant because of of cultural differences. You just pulled that shit outta your ass cause you didn't like what the PLANT EXPERT I referenced had to say about your beloved Turface, lol.

I can tell you personally that keeping Bonsai Mums alive FOR YEARS and training them, pruning them, maintaining rootzone conditions over extended periods of time, etc., will teach one a LOT about growing weed.

Don't fuck with Mr. Miagi, lol - he knows his shit when it comes to plants, and if he tells you to 'Wax On, Wax Off', you should at least LISTEN AND CONSIDER it. But you gotta lot of pride on the line in this thread, so you will defend Turface and PPK to its death, and shun and insult, as you just did, anyone challenging your 'expertise'.

all the ph charts are screwed. like the one you show, most depict elemental uptake absolutely stopping on one element while not quite starting on another. then they go on to tell you to "let it drift up and down so that your plant can get everything it needs".

Not all. I posted one that has been around for years in that thread, including some background of the origins of St0ney's fuckin' blue chart. That one posted from Grow Weed Easy (obviously copied from St0ney's stupid, wrong shit) is bullshit, too. That site is set up to make money. They want you to sign up for their email auto-responder series where they send you emails weekly/bi-weekly giving you 'gardening tips' have a link to buy something, and they get a commission. There is a lot of incorrect info on that site. And some flat out bullshit yield claims.

There is more than the stopping issue. Uptake occurs at different rates at different pH levels. As an example, at 5.8 Mg uptake sucks balls. Drop the pH down to 5.3, and the plant uptakes Mg like a Boss.

If you reference the chart I posted in the Infirmary thread, you'll note the proper pH range for soiless is from 5.1-5.3 - 6.0-6.2. And you don't drift up and down. A healthy system starts low and drifts up.

you do have "ideal" ranges for uptake of each individual element. but they don't all occur between 5.8-6.2. the plant will still take up all the nutrients over a large range of ph. it will just vary in availability.

You and I mostly agree there.

by the way, there is a huge hydroponic tomato greenhouse in turkey that runs everything at 4.6 ph as there is a nice band of overlapping uptake that occurs there similar to the band around 5.8.

Different plant species prefer different rootzone conditions, including moisture and pH. I don't advise, overall, dropping a res that low. I've run plants that low, but problems arose. I will start a res in the high 4's instead of throwing pH Up in it, though, knowing it will drift above 5 in a day or so. But that is more special case.

In my experiences, and according to the chart I refer to, this one:



no such band exists at 5.8 with weed. There is 'overlap' everywhere, but 5.8 is kind of a 'dead zone', not a special overlap zone.

you might consider shoving a wick up into your medium with a screwdriver and elevating the pots so they drain all the excess water immediately.

editing to say that if you are hand watering turface you need to either screen it for fines or cut it with something like perlite or rice hulls to drive up air filled porosity.

Looks like a lot of 'tweaking' ya gotta do to a 'superb' medium to make it work right to me ...

I'm gonna smoke a bowl, and then go through the rest of this thread real quick ...

... okay, let me stop you on page 19, well, let me stop Dr. Fever, first, as I think you two might be tripped up on the same thing concerning how O2 is delivered to root systems in hydro:

Cold water can hold more dissolved oxygen than warm water that is the reason so many DWC growers run chillers etc so i am guessing its rather important when flooding that the water has a good saturation point of 02 ??? which i think is most crucial point in any type of system

Kind of, but not really. The reason RDWC growers, of which I have been one (as well as many other systems), use a chiller is because you are going to get root rot if you don't. There are people who have gotten lucky, but no chiller = guaranteed root rot at some point in RDWC. Pythium thrives at higher temps and depleted oxygen levels. More dissolved O2 and lower temps eliminates root rot.

Further, we are not talking about alot of dissolved oxygen here. I think it is like 9 PPM at 68° F, and 7.5 PPM at 86° F that water will hold. Ain't much.

this system is not a fast moving hydroponic system dependent on water as the o2 delivery system.

RDWC does NOT depend upon the nute solution as the only, or even significant source of O2. RDWC roots are exposed to that same 'ambient air' you are so proud of and seem to think unique and special (lol) to your system. So are the roots of NFT, Ebb & Flow, Hempy Buckets, etc.

In RDWC, airstones bring 'ambient air' into the buckets. The 'ambient air' passes through the solution in the form of bubbles, NOT getting dissolved in it, attach themselves to roots where they create and 'ambient air bubble', then get knocked off by more bubbles/current, float to the top and burst. The bursting splashes the roots that are NOT IN THE NUTRIENT SOLUTION but hanging out in nothing but AMBIENT AIR.

In a RDWC system, several inches of roots below the net pot are in nothing but air, dude, and the roots in the solution are getting bombarded by, and exposed to, bubbles of ambient air.

These bean sprout looking roots on this young plant are NOT in solution. They are hanging out in nothing but ambient air, getting splashed as the ambient air bubbles from the air stone burst on the surface, and some nute draining down from a top feed on a timer ... err ... I mean pulsed from my GTX Pulsar 5000 and then diffused. Lol.



Ebb & Flow - same damn thing. Ambient air exposed to the roots. Sorry, dude, you don't have anything different, and certainly not better, with your super special 'ambient air' Turface/PPK system. Your Turface roots are getting exposed to the same ambient air that my RDWC are. And many of your roots are getting LESS exposure than mine.

the oxygen is derived from ambient air in the root zone where it is readily taken up and easily replaced by diffusion between pulses as well as full replacement via the pulse.

Pulses. FFS, Lol. Just because you start calling top feed on a timer 'pulses', it doesn't change the fact that you are doing NOTHING NEW OR UNIQUE HERE. I see a whole bunch of made up words to describe minor variations on the same 'ol shit, with NO REAL improvements - Turface sure ain't better than many other mediums, nor are you able to provide your roots exposure to as much ambient air as I can in a RDWC. Period.

the ppk does not function on the same principles as rdwc, bio-bucket, or undercurrent systems.

Lol. Yes it does. Pretty much the exact same principles. But from your words, you don't fully understand the principles of those other systems, so I can see how you are getting all tripped up on that. There is nothing new to wicking or top feeding, either.

Dr Fever:

Granite combined with Turface in the gritty mix gives you the the ability to adjust water retention. By increasing the Turface and decreasing the granite, while still limiting the bark fraction to no more than 1/3 of the whole, you can increase water retention. Increasing the granite and decreasing the grit decreases water retention.

Lol. Superb medium Delta 9 calls it? That's a lot of dicking around for a medium that is supposed to be superb. Further, since there is the dicking around that needs to be done, while you are doing that and figuring out which combo works just right, you are costing your plants for not providing optimal rootzone conditions.

I'll skeedaddle on outta this thread now. All ya'll grow in whatever you want, but this PPK/Turface stuff is a bunch 'o hype and people trying to position themselves as experts, from what I can tell.

I know you got a lot of pride wrapped up in this shit as the Turface/PPK 'expert' Delta 9, so you can have your thread back and tell everyone I don't know what I am talking about, lol.

Gimme some Turface and a Pulsar 5000, and I'll grow some pretty good weed. Lot's of systems and mediums can. If your pure goal is maximum weight for minimum plant numbers, there are systems better than what I have seen in this thread to achieve that.

And, I haven't seen ANY root pictures in this thread that really knocked my dick in the dirt or overly impressed me. In fact, they supported, in my mind, the Bonsai Hero's claim of Turface producing thready roots ...

Toodles,
The Bonsai Hero.

 

[delta9nxs]

http://www.profilegrow.com/category-s/100.htm?gclid=CJzQm4GE1MUCFQWUfgodmLwA_w

http://email.swansonrussell.com/profile/037430/documents/Hydroponic-Growth-Medium-Sell-Sheet.pdf

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=298002 most of my plants were grown in turface. try to find a spot on one of them.


"In short, the PPK is a passive wick hydroponics method combined with a quick top feed flash flood. The wick (the pipe filled with media you see sticking down into the lower container) is a fail safe in case the top feed pump were to fail as well as functioning as a mechanism to lower/remove the "perched water table" from your upper container.. leaving an optimal zone for excellent root growth. It also offers some other benefits such as preventing nutes/salts accumulating in the root zone and so forth.. you control the moisture in the upper container both with the water level (set via float valve in your "pulse" rez) and your top feed watering volume/intervals. There is a hydraulic "hook-up" action which occurs during a flash flood of the upper container. As to not starve the feed pump of water it'll suck water back from the plant containers. This in turn sucks tons of oxygen down into the rootzone."

this is one of the best short descriptions of the ppk. credit to icmag member FlowerFarmer. thanks buddy!

the ppk is not a big deal, it's simply a really nice way to grow big, healthy plants with minimum maintenance and hassle. have a nice day!

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I wouldn't waste your time here CJ. You're not going to convince any of us in this thread that the PPK isn't something special. Many of us have witnessed it with our own eyes. It's a beautiful system.

Sure, it's just a hydroponics method.. but the method of top feed (wave or full pulse) combined with the wick, paired with Turface, just so makes it happen to be one of the highest performing, fail-safe, down right low maintenance system that many of us have ever came across.

It's extremely easy/forgiving and it works amazingly well! What the hell are you even trying to argue here?

I think you're reading into the details too much, while for some reason having a chip on your shoulder and coming in here wanting to parade against the method/medium. Turface just so happens to be the media with the right porosity for the combined feed/wick. It is free draining enough to allow for frequent irrigation while also retaining water enough to wick. Nobody gives a shit about Turface, there are no agendas here... it's just the best suited media that D9's found for this particular method! We accept and embrace any alternatives which will fit the bill... if you read the threads you'd easily see this.


Maybe D9s comment about the advise given over in the infirmary rustled your feathers the wrong way, but take that shit to PM or something.. Your attempt to dismiss the work this man has put in and willingly shared with the community for no commercial gain is down right childish.

Keep hatin' brother.. nobody really give a rats ass your opinion of this system you've just breezed through in an attempt to dismiss it's author because of some offhand comment.

 

[Cat Jockey]

I wouldn't waste your time here CJ.

As you can see from my post count, I don't waste much time here. But I don't recall asking you for advice on how to spend my personal time ...

You're not going to convince any of us in this thread that the PPK isn't something special. Many of us have witnessed it with our own eyes. It's a beautiful system.

It's a shame you admit to being so closeminded about things. Precisely how many of the thousands of views this thread has do you think you speak for?

Sure, it's just a hydroponics method.. but the method of top feed (wave or full pulse) combined with the wick, paired with Turface, just so makes it happen to be one of the highest performing, fail-safe, down right low maintenance system that many of us have ever came across.

That's a whole bunch 'o wishful thinking there, dude/dudette. Gimme a break with this wave/full pulse crap like you guys are doing something different - you're not. You are flooding the rootzone and exchanging the solution. Like EVERY OTHER SYSTEM.

The thing is all of the 'us' you refer to probably do not have my growing experience, and the opinions of mostly intermediate and beginner growers is not very persuasive to me. I have about 20 years wrapped up in all of this, have used just about every 'system' and have run grow-ops large enough to kick out x,xxx rooted clones per week, and have had over 80 strains pass through my gardens. Further, there is NOTHING inherently more fail-safe or low-maintennace about this set-up than several others.

But hey, if you want to be all closeminded, and shit, and think you guys just reinvented the wheel, well, have fun in that fantasy land.

It's extremely easy/forgiving and it works amazingly well! What the hell are you even trying to argue here?

Go back and read the very first sentence of my other post. It is quite simple. Someone referenced me, asked about something I said in a different thread, and then Delta9 proceeded to be condescending with his Bonsai Hero bullshit and imply I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about.

After reading the thread some, I came across INCORRECT information, like with the dissolved oxygen bullshit being the source of O2 for the roots in a RDWC system.

I think you're reading into the details too much, while for some reason having a chip on your shoulder and coming in here wanting to parade against the method/medium.

Chip on my shoulder? Nah. I just came in here with my Bullshit Detector and am pointing out the bullshit being passed off as 'expert knowledge'. And again, my presence here has to do with my TRYING TO HELP A GROWER HAVING PROBLEMS. He talked baout PPK in his thread, I asked for a link, went searching myself, came across this thread, and found somebody throwing insults like Bonsai Hero towards me and implying I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about concerning advise I gave out in another thread.

I didn't 'parade' myself in here with a chip on my shoulder. I came here to learn about this PPK thang and then found myself being insulted with that Bonsai Hero shit, and a person with a plant issue being told to not listen to my advice. He should listen to my advice, for it is in the best interest of his garden.

On top of that I WAS MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD before I ever came across it and read it. I'd say I have some ground to type a few things here.

You guys brought me into this thread, as well as criticizing the advice I gave out to someone in a different thread. Get it? Don't turn this shit around on me, like I just barged in here to piss on your Wheaties for no reason, lol.

I am RESPONDING to disparaging comments made about me and my advice. What the hell is your problem with that? You certainly wouldn't let that happen to you without jumping into a thread to respond, nobody would.

My concern is that dude's crop, and his future crop, and the crops of any beginners/intermediates reading this thread. my message to them is to not believe the hype, nor is your claim about it being the easiest or most maintenance free system true. That is why on the rare occasions I 'waste' time here, I go straight to the Infirmary forum and see if I can help a fellow grower with my experiences of growing a lot, and fucking up a lot, lol, of plants. Because my number one concern here is helping people with issues, and helping people NOT fall for all the bullshit I have seen in this thread.

Turface just so happens to be the media with the right porosity for the combined feed/wick. It is free draining enough to allow for frequent irrigation while also retaining water enough to wick.

Whatevuh. You can say that about a lot of mediums, and I SERIOUSLY doubt you actually know 'right' porosity is. More shit being pulled outta asses here and stated as though it were fact, lol.

Nobody gives a shit about Turface, there are no agendas here...

Lol. With all of the new terminology being thrown around (pulsing, waves, diffusion, etc.) you guys are trying to establish yourselves as experts with some new, improved and better system. You better believe there are agendas here, starting with someone trying to establish themselves as an expert grower that knows more than everyone else.

it's just the best suited media that D9's found for this particular method! We accept and embrace any alternatives which will fit the bill... if you read the threads you'd easily see this.

Make up your damn mind. First you say that nobody here cares about Turface, and then you say it is the best thing found for this system,implying people care about it.

Yea, well, I don't trust D9's findings, lol. He has already displayed a lack of knowledge of how other systems he is criticizing actually work, etc. And I suggest the dude who initially brought me up here (props to him, btw, for not just dismissing what I said and trying to learn more about by asking other people - he just asked people that don't know as much as he thinks and this thread makes him think they do), not trust D9's findings, either. Guy doesn't even really understand other systems he is criticizing.

Maybe D9s comment about the advise given over in the infirmary rustled your feathers the wrong way, but take that shit to PM or something..

Whatever, Mom. Again, I was brought up in this thread and someone was told I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about and to not pay any attention to the advice I gave out, and threw that condescending Bonsai Hero bullshit out there towards me. It ain't about ruffled feathers - it is about accurate information concerning weed farming being distributed.

Your attempt to dismiss the work this man has put in and willingly shared with the community for no commercial gain is down right childish.

Okay, mom. Psst ... overhere. Me and others have been doing that, for free, for no commercial gain, on the internet since LAST CENTURY. I been doing this shit online since the 90's, bro/broette. I'm not dismissing his work - I AM CORRECTING INCORRECT SHIT STATED AS FACT.

Keep hatin' brother.. nobody really give a rats ass your opinion of this system you've just breezed through in an attempt to dismiss it's author because of some offhand comment.

My PM box says otherwise, knucklehead. People do give a rat's ass about things I say. Remember, knucklehead, you got all of this shit backwards - I was the one that was dismissed here, not your buddy Delta 9. Delta 9 dismissed me, called me a Bonsai Hero. I just came in here and corrected some of the bullshit being spewed.

And I assure you there are people who appreciate that, and you are one arrogant dude/dudette if you think you speak for all of the readers of this forum and particular thread and know what they all give a rat's ass about ...

 

[Miraculous Meds]

@ cat jockey, Idk what got u bent out of shape about, but if u been doing this 20 years id hope u wouldn't be so childish to come in here just to start shit. I could pick apart a few things u think are fact but im not trying to incite an argument. Ur missing a lot of the main points of this style of grow, and im not about to try and explain them to u, cause ur not here to listen, share, and learn. Ur here to start shit cause ur mad about something. Smoke another one bro. Maybe two.

Ive been doing this shit for 15 or 20 years too. Ive learned a few things from D9, but don't agree with everything he says verbatim. But D9 never said this is the ultimate, or best, or only way of growing. Hes just sharing his findings with this method.

U got something to share, cool. Otherwise.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

There really isn't any point in responding to all of that...

Kind of, but not really. The reason RDWC growers, of which I have been one (as well as many other systems), use a chiller is because you are going to get root rot if you don't. There are people who have gotten lucky, but no chiller = guaranteed root rot at some point in RDWC.

Further, there is NOTHING inherently more fail-safe or low-maintennace about this set-up than several others.

hmmm..You sure about that? Chillers? DWC? Root rot?
You mad bro? You should give the PPK a try. I assure you a lot of the shortcomings of other system are a non-issue in a PPK. It's seriously difficult to actually lose a plant in one.

The thing is all of the 'us' you refer to probably do not have my growing experience, and the opinions of mostly intermediate and beginner growers is not very persuasive to me. I have about 20 years wrapped up in all of this, have used just about every 'system' and have run grow-ops large enough to kick out x,xxx rooted clones per week, and have had over 80 strains pass through my gardens.

You keep talking about us self-proclaimed experts that seemingly are trying to take over the world here, but the only person around here pounding their chest is you dude..

You don't have a lot of posts, but there are sure as shit a lot of them you going on about your experience and how you consider yourself an expert. Your post history shows that you clearly know it all and everyone else is a newbie.

Newsflash, growing pot aint new. No reasons to get your feelings hurt. Lots of people been growing cannabis for a long time. You aren't the only cat with experience dude. Many of us have been growing 15+ and have tried every method under the sun. They all have their limitations. The PPK is a good one.. it is extremely redundant and low input. I'm not sure I can think of any other system that offers the level of redundancy & ease that the PPK does.

If you know of one please share it.... and please don't say RDWC.

Keep in mind the PPK can live.. without power, through a timer failure, through a pump failure, through hot water temp.. the list goes on. Name one system that can do this while also having the ability to grow massive trees. Seriously, I want to know of this system. The PPK is a great hybrid. Nobody is trying to claim fame here.. you seem to be disgruntled because of the terminology. Wave, pulse, etc is just a term used within the PPK circle to describe the water frequency/volume and how it's applied. Why does it bug you so much? Yes, it's still top feed. This describes it a little further for those looking to dial the system. It's an extremely flexible system. Sorry that D9 coined some phrases.. I'm sure he wouldn't have if he knew it was going to hurt some feelings.


I gotta stop there though.. no point in clogging this thread up for someone who isn't even interested in what the PPK has to offer.

 

[delta9nxs]

well, cj, let me apologize for the "bonsai hero" comment. it just struck me as funny.

and when you grow a plant you are culturing it. it's a term used by plant people to decribe the methodology they are using to grow a plant.

and if you grow a cannabis plant with the same techniques that you grow a bonsai plant you will get a bonsai cannabis plant. most folks want great big heavy plants and the ppk delivers that.

most substrates for growing are initially hydrophobic. peat and coco are both very hydrophobic.

i am not in love with turface or any other material. although i do own the mine and i want you all to go out and buy it now. buy it now! Buy It Now!

the term pulse seems to bother you. i didn't make it up. pulsed irrigation is discussed at some length in the literature. it is considered to be a subset of drip irrigation. try google scholar. or look back at my threads where it and all this other stuff is discussed thoroughly.

and if the ppk is the same old shit to you where have you seen one before?

a soilless hydroponic hybrid system that automatically fertigates.

that drains the perched water table from the medium after each event, which gives you a larger usable area for root development and allows more frequent watering.

the more frequent watering coupled with the correct air filled porosity drives up gas exchange.

eliminates the need for a chiller as it does not rely on dissolved o2 in water for plant use.

eliminates salt buildup in the root zone.

is tunable in the sense that you can precision control moisture content.

allows the plant to feed freely between pulses or, excuse me, watering events.

what you are missing here is that there is a synergistic effect that happens in these things and cannabis plants grow like mad in them.

and about the calcium deficiency. i agree that the sweet potato plant has it bad. and that is where most calcium deficiencies occur on the cannabis plant.

i too have been growing cannabis since the 90's and in turface for over ten years and using jack's and calcinit since oct 2010 which is the first mention of it on any cannabis board anywhere to my knowledge and i can tell you for sure that is not a calcium def on that plant.

it is a beginning reaction to low o2 in the root zone. i understand what you are saying about moisture content affecting nutrient uptake and possibly causing it and in general i would agree with you but, again, i have been growing in turface a long time and i have seen this before.

and you are certainly right about lab tests needed to diagnose a deficiency properly. but since i don't believe that is what happened i don't think it is relevant here.

so really it just looks like you are pissed off about the "bonsai hero" comment and i do sincerely apologize for it.

if you have anything concrete you would like to debate about this sytem i will be glad to entertain you. but let's take it one subject at a time please.

after you sir, d9

 

[Snook]

CJ, please start a thread, or direct me to the ones you have given some proactive advice, from what I have seen most of your posts are about plant deficiencies and telling others how smart YOU are, nothing about what you have grown yourself. Maybe I miss one.

don't know what youre talking about in the infirmary section, don't care, because since I've followed the PPK sytem, all 'illnesses' have vanished... no o2 worries, no PH worries, no additives recommended, EDIT: no deficiencies....

take your condescending attitude somewhere else, Einstein.

 

[funnymath]

Nobody is trying to claim fame here.. you seem to be disgruntled because of the terminology. Wave, pulse, etc is just a term used within the PPK circle to describe the water frequency/volume and how it's applied. Why does it bug you so much? Yes, it's still top feed. This describes it a little further for those looking to dial the system. It's an extremely flexible system. Sorry that D9 coined some phrases.. I'm sure he wouldn't have if he knew it was going to hurt some feelings.

I think his problem is terminology and how people don't use the same words as him. His posts are focused around a couple main things.

1. He doesn't like that "bonsai hero" name. I can see that he might think it's insulting or condescending, but it's clear his feelings were hurt.
2. He doesn't like someone calling a medium "superb" because to him superb means flawless and foolproof. It's true that turface has cons in certain situations, but when you talk about not draining fast enough or holding enough water it's kind of negated by the ppk allowing you to maintain a specific moisture profile in the pot. But he even went to the extent of saying that since DrFever talked about using granite to tweak the moisture retention of turface that it is not a "superb" medium. I'd bet that he'd say that there is no "superb" medium under his definition, but to us when something works well in our systems and has more pros and less cons than any other medium, we call it "superb".

 

[Dready_jake]

I think all he was saying is hype mixed with misinformation can be a dangerous thing and therefore terminology and so called facts are very important.
One thing philosophers do is blank themselves and start rebuilding their ideals of knowledge from scratch. Meaning you can't decide right and wrong from society as society is most likely wrong with their presumed facts.(remember geocentricism?) There is so much misunformation around cannabis that if one is to grow great they must blank out the "known" info about growing cannabis, and start finding facts on your own. If you only listen to others non a site you might grow good weed but not anybody knows everything, and by experimenting or researching one could find more info than he could if he listened to this presumed expert. I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong just that everyone needs to evaluate for themselves who is an expert and what true knowledge is.

For instance the myth that cloning with a 45°angle is "known" to be best. But in the horticultural world you want the wound to heal over faster so cutting a 45° in the stem prolongs this by making more surface area to cover. The 45° thing came from flower shops because the 45° angle slows scabbing allowing longer uptake of water. In cloning we want it to make roots to drink and providing constant water in the stem doesn't entice it to root necessarily.

I'm just saying it's not all fact what you read on here and YOU have to decide if your resource is credible

 

[Grow4Flow]

This dude is posting way too much bullshit to hold an interest in reading.

D9 has shown many of us a great new system of growing that works really "Superb" and has changed many of our grow styles. I have been cultivating since 92' and have grown in every form i can think of, all of which require maint. and babysitting. I for one am happy to free up time away.

I also do coco runs in one room to build harvests between the PPK grows, but i still prefer the PPK to any other style to date.